Page 1 of 1

On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 7:27 pm
by Seed Starter
On October 5th 1856 Brigham Young spoke to the congregation about sending help to the handcart companies who were still hundreds of miles away from SLC because they left too late in the season. The Willie handcart company left Florence on August 16th and the Martin handcart company didn't leave Florence until August 25th. The Willie co didn't make it to SLC until November 9th and the Martin co didn't arrive until November 30th. Over 200 men, women, and children perished along the way. Here is part of what Brigham said that day:
https://historicalgeneralconferences.we ... r.html#BYa (read or listen)

"I will now give this people the subject and the text for the Elders who may speak today and during the Conference, it is this, on the 5th day of October, 1856, many of our brethren and sisters are on the Plains with handcarts, and probably many are now seven hundred miles from this place, and they must be brought here, we must send assistance to them. The text will be—to get them here! I want the brethren who may speak to understand that their text is the people on the Plains, and the subject matter for this community is to send for them and bring them in before the winter sets in. That is my religion; that is the dictation of the Holy Ghost that I possess, it is to save the people. We must bring them in from the Plains, and when we get them here, we will try to keep the same spirit that we have had, and teach them the way of life and salvation; tell them how they can be saved, and how they can save their friends. This is the salvation I am now seeking for, to save our brethren that would be apt to perish or suffer extremely, if we do not send them assistance."

Franklin D. Richards had this to say on the same day:
"The Saints that are now on the Plains, about one thousand with handcarts, feel that it is late in the season, and they expect to get cold fingers and toes. But they have this faith and confidence towards God, that He will overrule the storms that may come in the season thereof and turn them away, that their path may be freed from suffering more than they can bear. They have confidence to believe that this will be an open fall; and I tell you, brethren and sisters, that every time we got to talking about the handcarts in England, and on the way, we could not talk long without prophesying about them. On shipboard, at the points of outfit, and on the Plains, every time we spoke we felt to prophesy good concerning them.

We started off the rear company from Florence about the first of September, and the Gentiles came around with their sympathy, and their nonsense, trying to decoy away the sisters, telling them that it was too late in the season, that the journey would be too much for their constitutions, and if they would wait until next year, themselves would be going to California, and would take them along more comfortably. When we had a meeting at Florence, we called upon the Saints to express their faith to the people, and requested to know of them, even if they knew that they should be swallowed up in storms, whether they would stop or turn back. They voted, with loud acclamations, that they would go on. Such confidence and joyful performance of so arduous labors to accomplish their gathering will bring the choice blessings of God upon them."

I would encourage everyone to read/listen to all of the talks given that day. They seemed to be speaking with one voice. As I read about the accounts of some of the faithful who were in these companies my heart aches. Those saints have moved on of course but I would like to honor their memory and learn from what happened.

Elder Richards called the gentile warnings nonsense and implied the gentiles were trying to trick the sisters (decoy them) out of making the trip. RMN told members not to take counsel from those who do not believe just the other day. I know there's an entire post about that. I think that's why that quote popped into my head as I re-read the history. RMN said there is no end to the devil's deceptions. I wish he would have just said, "Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation." This direction allows one to listen to gentiles and prophets without being misled. The only voice we can trust in all things is the Spirit. I believe Paul and some of what RMN said.

“As you think celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think celestial and don’t question your testimony. The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.” There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust. From prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will show unto you the things what ye should do. Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation. As you think celestial, your faith will increase.“

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 7:39 pm
by Seed Starter
I was reading the history of William Woodward today. He was a member of the Willie company. He (a poor 23 year old) was called to come to the valley from England in early 1856. Here is what he said:

"We never ought to have left Mo. River. It was about August 17th when we left the River: we had 6 wagons when we left Florence and was allowed a pound of flour a day. While at Florence a meeting of our Company was held—I had been sent to Omaha & Council Bluffs, when Levi Savage told of the cold & suffering might be expected on the trip. Bro. Willie assumed all responsibility & Bro. Savage was condemned for his recital of what might be expected on our journey. Bro. Willie gave me the information when I returned from Council Bluffs. Every word spoken by Bro. Savage came true."

and

"Next day a meeting was held at our camp. F. D. Richards had heard of the remarks made by Bro. Levi Savage at Florence, and severely condemned them. He said he had heard remarks made by Bro. John Taylor at New York who spoke of the lateness of the season, and Bro. F. D. Richards said he told Bro. John Taylor he could wash his hands from it & he would take the whole responsibility of the emigration on himself. James Ferguson prophesied that the storms would divide and pass us by; in fact we would be free from them."

When a believer and participant in the journey gave a common sense warning he was condemned by the same man who said the gentiles were speaking nonsense warnings. There was another chance to limit the suffering that came and went. It angers me that Brother Savage was treated that way when he turned out to be right. He wasn't even the prophet, just a man who knew the penalty for ignoring nature. The problem was the men above him refused to change plans and even made it known to the party that he did something wrong by speaking out.

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 7:43 pm
by Rumpelstiltskin
Brigham was a serious hypocrite. He originally diverted the rescue wagons to pick up a consignment left behind by Richards. That consignment included a ton of tobacco, alcohol, tea, and coffee. It was after he found out the conditions of the handcart company that he realized he screwed up and sent rescue wagons.

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm
by CuriousThinker
I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 8:24 pm
by Seed Starter
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.
I saw that. Things get really interesting when you start looking through letters between leaders showing who knew what and when. I was able to find the archived letters and do some digging because of Rob's video. It's funny my kids always ask why they need to know cursive. Digging deeply into source documents is one good reason.

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 8:27 pm
by Seed Starter
Here is a basic timeline of events published by the church if anyone is new to the story:
https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org ... g?lang=eng

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 10:19 pm
by NeveR
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.
Is there a link to that vid anywhere?

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 10:46 pm
by CuriousThinker
NeveR wrote: October 5th, 2023, 10:19 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.
Is there a link to that vid anywhere?
https://youtu.be/PsQsxoND-3I?si=GdtEsr5jpKs3cHPX

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 5th, 2023, 11:02 pm
by ransomme
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 10:46 pm
NeveR wrote: October 5th, 2023, 10:19 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.
Is there a link to that vid anywhere?
https://youtu.be/PsQsxoND-3I?si=GdtEsr5jpKs3cHPX
*fixed 😊

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 6th, 2023, 4:08 pm
by Rumpelstiltskin
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.
I thank the Lord for people like Rob. I was not surprised when he was ex'd. Telling the inconvenient truth is a major sin.

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 6th, 2023, 4:32 pm
by Luke
Rumpelstiltskin wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:08 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.
I thank the Lord for people like Rob. I was not surprised when he was ex'd. Telling the inconvenient truth is a major sin.
Rob is a deceiver

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 6th, 2023, 4:41 pm
by Seed Starter
Luke wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:32 pm
Rumpelstiltskin wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:08 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.
I thank the Lord for people like Rob. I was not surprised when he was ex'd. Telling the inconvenient truth is a major sin.
Rob is a deceiver
Are you telling the truth about that ;) Is Rob wrong about something surrounding the Willie and Martin co's?

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 7th, 2023, 7:34 am
by Mindfields
When you believe so much, truth be damned.

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 7th, 2023, 8:00 am
by Reluctant Watchman
Luke wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:32 pm
Rumpelstiltskin wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:08 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: October 5th, 2023, 8:03 pm I cringe when I think of the lies the church has propagated about the handcart companies. Rob Fotheringham's video was a real eye-opener.
I thank the Lord for people like Rob. I was not surprised when he was ex'd. Telling the inconvenient truth is a major sin.
Rob is a deceiver
We have all been deceived to one degree or another. I guess it just depends on the degree to which you or a group (or corporation) has been either deceived or the deceiver.

A lot of what Rob presents are various aspects the church wants to bury. And sure, does he take his own viewpoint on many things? Yes, he's human. Does he make some pretty good connections and associations? Yes.

We often like to cherry-pick our data/quotes to support our beliefs. We all do this. The human mind is really good at partitioning data. Members will hear truth in GC, but they'll often not recognize the false precepts taught as well. Or they fall into the trap of the Association Fallacy.

The fact is, a lot of church dogmas (teaching of leaders) are duplicitous. They'll speak out of both sides of their mouth. The church puts Brigham on a Pioneer Pedestal for anything that makes him look good, yet completely omits the other things that happened. History books, particularly religious histories, are often heavily biased. Especially one that touts they "can never lead you astray." The victor often writes the narrative.

Re: On this day in 1856 Brigham Young spoke about rescuing the handcart companies

Posted: October 7th, 2023, 11:37 am
by ransomme
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 7th, 2023, 8:00 am
Luke wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:32 pm
Rumpelstiltskin wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:08 pm

I thank the Lord for people like Rob. I was not surprised when he was ex'd. Telling the inconvenient truth is a major sin.
Rob is a deceiver
We have all been deceived to one degree or another. I guess it just depends on the degree to which you or a group (or corporation) has been either deceived or the deceiver.

A lot of what Rob presents are various aspects the church wants to bury. And sure, does he take his own viewpoint on many things? Yes, he's human. Does he make some pretty good connections and associations? Yes.

We often like to cherry-pick our data/quotes to support our beliefs. We all do this. The human mind is really good at partitioning data. Members will hear truth in GC, but they'll often not recognize the false precepts taught as well. Or they fall into the trap of the Association Fallacy.

The fact is, a lot of church dogmas (teaching of leaders) are duplicitous. They'll speak out of both sides of their mouth. The church puts Brigham on a Pioneer Pedestal for anything that makes him look good, yet completely omits the other things that happened. History books, particularly religious histories, are often heavily biased. Especially one that touts they "can never lead you astray." The victor often writes the narrative.
He said that simply because Rob is not pro polygamy.