LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 2:27 pm**

I haven’t paid tithing to the LDS Church for a fair while now, even though I’m active in my ward and I teach Elders Quorum.

I’m officially joining a Fundamentalist group (no, I won’t say which one, you’ll have to wait until I finish my “Succession” series

though if you’ve been paying attention, it should be obvious) and going back to the other side of the pond.

Anyway, back to the story… the Bishop recently announced that it’s time for Tithing Settlement… or Tithing Declaration as it’s now called. That conversation I think will be taking place within the next few months. At which point it will be impossible to deny that I’m not paying tithing — and I don’t feel to lie to him — 1. because I don’t really have a valid reason to lie except to save my membership, and 2. because I can’t really think of any good excuse as to why I wouldn’t be paying tithing.

In brief, it looks like things are coming to a head. What will happen next, I don’t know. People on here like personal stories, so I just thought I would share a snippet of mine.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 2:46 pm**

you don't get exxed over tithing

now the conversation that comes out of that....yeah. Possible.

I can still answer the temple questions truthfully. Is RMN the only one authorized to receive revelation for the LDS church? Yep, sure, it's his corporation; now if they asked for the world or any other group I might not be able to pass, but for the church - sure, fine.

I don't belong to any organizations that are anti-LDS (that I know of)

I still follow the WoW strictly - I know a lot of fringe LDS like their beer or other mild drinks, I have no beef about it, but think beer is just nasty.

etc. Best of luck to you, may the odds be ever in your favor or whatever applies.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 2:53 pm**

I’m in a similar boat, we haven’t paid tithing to the church for a few yrs now. At first it was scary, thinking something bad would happen since that’s the kinds of stories I’d been told my whole life but so far so good! I teach the 4 yo’s & love it but I’m preparing myself to be told I’ll be released & it’ll be interesting if they decide to discipline us somehow. I doubt he’ll ask why bc I’ve heard they don’t want clergy asking dissenting members “why” they choose to not practice their religion fervently since it may give doubt to that clergy member.
I certainly wish you the best in this next journey of yours. God speed!

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 3:02 pm**

So, I stopped completely in 2020 after 2 years of dialing it back according to the Spirit.

And others of you also stopped a few years ago.

Did we all get the memo at the same time?

I am truly curious what tithing donations look like now.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 3:21 pm**

Luke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 2:27 pm I haven’t paid tithing to the LDS Church for a fair while now, even though I’m active in my ward and I teach Elders Quorum.

I’m officially joining a Fundamentalist group (no, I won’t say which one, you’ll have to wait until I finish my “Succession” series though if you’ve been paying attention, it should be obvious) and going back to the other side of the pond.

Anyway, back to the story… the Bishop recently announced that it’s time for Tithing Settlement… or Tithing Declaration as it’s now called. That conversation I think will be taking place within the next few months. At which point it will be impossible to deny that I’m not paying tithing — and I don’t feel to lie to him — 1. because I don’t really have a valid reason to lie except to save my membership, and 2. because I can’t really think of any good excuse as to why I wouldn’t be paying tithing.

In brief, it looks like things are coming to a head. What will happen next, I don’t know. People on here like personal stories, so I just thought I would share a snippet of mine.

As it's a tithing declaration, all you have to do is declare your status as a full, part, non-tithe payer, or exempt.
Follow up questions are not necessary.
In fact, you don't have to declare anything at all. Tithing declaration is voluntary... and you can even do it via email.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 3:30 pm**

Luke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 2:27 pm I haven’t paid tithing to the LDS Church for a fair while now, even though I’m active in my ward and I teach Elders Quorum.

I’m officially joining a Fundamentalist group (no, I won’t say which one, you’ll have to wait until I finish my “Succession” series though if you’ve been paying attention, it should be obvious) and going back to the other side of the pond.

Anyway, back to the story… the Bishop recently announced that it’s time for Tithing Settlement… or Tithing Declaration as it’s now called. That conversation I think will be taking place within the next few months. At which point it will be impossible to deny that I’m not paying tithing — and I don’t feel to lie to him — 1. because I don’t really have a valid reason to lie except to save my membership, and 2. because I can’t really think of any good excuse as to why I wouldn’t be paying tithing.

In brief, it looks like things are coming to a head. What will happen next, I don’t know. People on here like personal stories, so I just thought I would share a snippet of mine.

How did you come to this decision if I can ask? You are pretty active on these boards I’ve noticed. I’m a lurker for a long time. You post lots of old quotes about history and scriptures.

I think the lds church is growing apostate since I believe they abandoned common consent a long time ago and it’s finally starting to really catch up to them. They then lost the holy ghost is my theory which I don’t think they hold as a gift anymore as a group.

How do you know which fundamentalist group is right?

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 3:58 pm**

Our recent EQ has been as dull as dishwater... I don't even attend. I am in a strange position myself vis à vis tithing, I haven't paid for a long while yet am on my ward council! I'm in a very odd position.

You have a much better knowledge of church history than the average member does, that's for sure. The church has taken a major nosedive in recent times. You're still young but it's been rapid enough for you to notice, and is during RMN's presidency. There were certainly problems before then but now it is getting extreme.

How do you know which fundamentalist group is right?

My question as well. You certainly see through Warren Jeffs but I get the impression you believe spiritual authority has been manifested through more than one Restorationist group.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:02 pm**

Luke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 2:27 pm I haven’t paid tithing to the LDS Church for a fair while now, even though I’m active in my ward and I teach Elders Quorum.

I’m officially joining a Fundamentalist group (no, I won’t say which one, you’ll have to wait until I finish my “Succession” series though if you’ve been paying attention, it should be obvious) and going back to the other side of the pond.

Anyway, back to the story… the Bishop recently announced that it’s time for Tithing Settlement… or Tithing Declaration as it’s now called. That conversation I think will be taking place within the next few months. At which point it will be impossible to deny that I’m not paying tithing — and I don’t feel to lie to him — 1. because I don’t really have a valid reason to lie except to save my membership, and 2. because I can’t really think of any good excuse as to why I wouldn’t be paying tithing.

In brief, it looks like things are coming to a head. What will happen next, I don’t know. People on here like personal stories, so I just thought I would share a snippet of mine.

What side of pond ?

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:08 pm**

I haven't paid tithing since around October 2020. When asked my status, I responded full tithe payer. I interpret my obligation and status according to the Lord's "standing Law unto the Saints forever," and I also believe the Lord is fine if I use whatever tithes I need to pay, directly to those in need instead of to the LDS Corp.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:12 pm**

The church is more than just the corporation, or the LDS Church. Tithe where the Spirit tells you. There are many options. The homeless man, or struggling family. To the filmmaker trying to put together a series about Jesus. To anyone doing things to build up Zion. Then you can tell your bishop that you are paying a full tithe.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:17 pm**

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 3:02 pm So, I stopped completely in 2020 after 2 years of dialing it back according to the Spirit.

And others of you also stopped a few years ago.

Did we all get the memo at the same time?

I am truly curious what tithing donations look like now.

Hi JuneBug, I started to change the way I do my offerings a few years ago, too, for various reasons.

I "tithe" to the Church according to "increase", as "interest" was understood in the early church, not gross income. I'm not interested in filling the institution's coffers; but due to family circumstances, pay a minimum club dues.

I'm more interested in the spirit of the law, which is why I do the following:

I contribute generously to fast offerings, as I know those have the most impact locally to my neighbors/ward.

I donate to causes/needs from my savings account in an adhoc fashion (people I know or situations I become aware of that I feel prompted by the Spirit to contribute to). Sometimes it's merely with money. Sometimes my time and energy. Sometimes both.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:23 pm**

I haven't been to a tithing settlement/declaration meeting in years. I do that when I renew my temple recommend. Not sure what things will look like when it's time to renew. I live a consecrated life, though.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:36 pm**

Just don't meet with him and don't have the conversation, right?

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:37 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 3:58 pm Our recent EQ has been as dull as dishwater... I don't even attend. I am in a strange position myself vis à vis tithing, I haven't paid for a long while yet am on my ward council! I'm in a very odd position.

You have a much better knowledge of church history than the average member does, that's for sure. The church has taken a major nosedive in recent times. You're still young but it's been rapid enough for you to notice, and is during RMN's presidency. There were certainly problems before then but now it is getting extreme.

How do you know which fundamentalist group is right?
My question as well. You certainly see through Warren Jeffs but I get the impression you believe spiritual authority has been manifested through more than one Restorationist group.

I have noticed that the ‘spirit’ of meetings has really decreased too even though I’ve been a less active for a while now. I think it’s because the church lost the gift of the holy ghost so now they have no power. All their meetings are just people repeating commandments of men. The men giving the commandments are the men in q15 if I’m not mistaken.

so I think their manuals have some truth but are hollow because they don’t have the holy ghost anymore? Don’t ge the wrong, it’s ok to repeat things but it’s become a joke among the members of “primary school answers”.

Idk what this means for the ordinances though? If the holy ghost is possibly gone what happens to ordinances?

I’m unsure about the restoration groups and fundies. They seem like a mixed bag and maybe a lot of infighting and endless posturing for power and control. Maybe I’m wrong though idk.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:52 pm**

nightlight wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 4:02 pm
Luke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 2:27 pm I haven’t paid tithing to the LDS Church for a fair while now, even though I’m active in my ward and I teach Elders Quorum.

I’m officially joining a Fundamentalist group (no, I won’t say which one, you’ll have to wait until I finish my “Succession” series though if you’ve been paying attention, it should be obvious) and going back to the other side of the pond.

Anyway, back to the story… the Bishop recently announced that it’s time for Tithing Settlement… or Tithing Declaration as it’s now called. That conversation I think will be taking place within the next few months. At which point it will be impossible to deny that I’m not paying tithing — and I don’t feel to lie to him — 1. because I don’t really have a valid reason to lie except to save my membership, and 2. because I can’t really think of any good excuse as to why I wouldn’t be paying tithing.

In brief, it looks like things are coming to a head. What will happen next, I don’t know. People on here like personal stories, so I just thought I would share a snippet of mine.
What side of pond ?

Your side

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:54 pm**

Telavian wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 4:36 pm Just don't meet with him and don't have the conversation, right?

I’m a pretty prominent member of the ward, and he speaks to me usually every week. There’s no way that he won’t ask me to meet him.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:56 pm**

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 2:46 pm you don't get exxed over tithing

now the conversation that comes out of that....yeah. Possible.

Yeah, that’s what I meant. I wasn’t even necessarily thinking excommunication, that doesn’t really happen here that much — but some sort of discipline, and distance being created, yes.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 4:59 pm**

fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 3:30 pm How do you know which fundamentalist group is right?

There’s three things I used to determine where the authority is:

1. That they had a solid line of succession
2. That they had revelations
3. That they were teaching correct doctrines

With most of the Fundamentalist groups, my problems with them fell into one or more of these. There was only one group that actually fit.

It wasn’t exactly a process of elimination, though that definitely helped.

Ultimately it was the whispering of the Spirit to me that convinced me to go forward.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 5:00 pm**

Luke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 2:27 pm 1. because I don’t really have a valid reason to lie except to save my membership

You cannot get excommunicated for not paying tithing. The *worst* that happens is they don't renew your temple recommend.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 5:02 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 3:58 pm
How do you know which fundamentalist group is right?
My question as well. You certainly see through Warren Jeffs but I get the impression you believe spiritual authority has been manifested through more than one Restorationist group.

I think that some of the various Fundamentalist groups have varying degrees of authority. I don’t know if the LDS Church has any left, and if they do, it’s only as far as the first principles and ordinances are concerned. As for the RLDS, they are completely apostate, and always were in my opinion. And some of the other groups which rejected polygamy from the start I doubt have any authority.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 5:02 pm**

Sunain wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 5:00 pm
Luke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 2:27 pm 1. because I don’t really have a valid reason to lie except to save my membership
You cannot get excommunicated for not paying tithing. The *worst* that happens is they don't renew your temple recommend.

I should have clarified — it’s the inevitable ensuing conversation which will cause problems.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 5:02 pm**

Luke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 4:59 pm

There’s three things I used to determine where the authority is:

3. That they were teaching correct doctrines

you mean polygamy, right?

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 5:04 pm**

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 4:12 pm The church is more than just the corporation, or the LDS Church. Tithe where the Spirit tells you. There are many options. The homeless man, or struggling family. To the filmmaker trying to put together a series about Jesus. To anyone doing things to build up Zion. Then you can tell your bishop that you are paying a full tithe.

Amen, Brother! I've enjoyed this thread.

Haven't paid for about a year and a half. Having overpaid/prepaid my whole life, plus direct where the Spirit says, I'm a full tithe payer with ZERO to the Church.

I actually very intently prayed about tithing. I told the Lord I could no longer give my common consent or pay tithing to the church, and that church tithing funds were not being used correctly. The Spirit told me, Correct Answer!

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 5:07 pm**

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 5:02 pm
Luke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 4:59 pm

There’s three things I used to determine where the authority is:

3. That they were teaching correct doctrines

you mean polygamy, right?

Yes, but there are many groups who teach and practise polygamy — it was more to do with the details of their Priesthood doctrines, among other things.

Obviously if they weren’t teaching CPM I wouldn’t have even bothered looking at them.

Posted: **October 4th, 2023, 5:17 pm**

marc wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 4:23 pm I haven't been to a tithing settlement/declaration meeting in years. I do that when I renew my temple recommend. Not sure what things will look like when it's time to renew. I live a consecrated life, though.

When he said "Feed my sheep" he wasn't speaking of the ones that already have $150 Billion in liquid reserves.

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