Nelson erasing Hinkley?

[Niemand]

* Fairbanks in Alaska — a town of 35,000 in the Alaskan bush gets a temple but Scotland doesn't? How many LDS are there in Alaska?! They might as well put one in Newfoundland as well.

Having been to Fairbanks recently, I can tell you that the metro Fairbanks area has more like 100,000 people and two stakes. The current nearest temple is six hours away in good weather. By US standards, the member concentration and geographic isolation are enough for a temple these days.

I take your word for it. I appreciate Alaska is huge, but it seems the middle of nowhere, not huge and a pretty brutal place (in climate terms.) It's not an area I associate much with LDS. Maybe I'm wrong At least there is some argument from remoteness there unlike some of the temples they're building in the Rockies. (At least I've heard of Fairbanks – I had to look up Mbuji-Mayi.)

At the current rate, they should just convert a couple of rooms in every major stake building into a temple facilities... that's the way they're heading.

[Niemand]

I wonder how many of the active Mormons in Europe are actually US Servicemen.

Nah, probably not too many. I know of one in the Baltics and haven't met one in the Nordics in over a dozen years. Perhaps in Germany there could be a whole ward of them. But it would be interesting to know

Where are there sizeable bases in Europe?

Well there's Ramstein, Heidleberg, RAF Lackenheath, Aviano. I think the Frankfurt Temple is attended by quite a few Mormon servicemen stationed at the nearby bases.

Germany doesn't have the sheer number of American or Allied personnel it used to back in the eighties, for obvious reasons. The other issue is Americans tend to go to English language services and the locals don't.

Instead, NATO has expanded east, to the chagrin of Russia, and places like Poland and Estonia have substantial foreign military. That's probably the best place to look.

One or two countries such as Switzerland and the Republic of Ireland do not have American bases. Switzerland has the oldest temple in Europe by the way. I knew people who were endowed and sealed over there. Iceland doesn't have an American base either these days since Keflavik shut, but the membership there is tiny anyway.

In this neck of the woods, we don't tend to get serving US military, or at least they don't make it obvious. Instead we tend to get academics and businessmen. Edinburgh Ward, and to a lesser extent Glasgow, are full of American students/academics. Edinburgh also has the Scottish Parliament where a lot of BYU students do internships for a few months at a time (there was a major controversy about this some years ago when a far left politician, Patrick Harvie, started complaining about it.) The Aberdeen area used to have a lot of people involved in the oil industry although nowhere near to the extent they once did. Senior missionaries from America also play an active role in keeping the temple going. We've also had one or two Americans around I strongly suspect of being CIA or the like.

I wouldn't say they form a notable part of UK membership at all, although like I say, this probably becomes more significant in the east of Europe. Then again I don't live next door to any major American bases.

[[email protected]]

Nah, probably not too many. I know of one in the Baltics and haven't met one in the Nordics in over a dozen years. Perhaps in Germany there could be a whole ward of them. But it would be interesting to know

Where are there sizeable bases in Europe?

Well there's Ramstein, Heidleberg, RAF Lackenheath, Aviano. I think the Frankfurt Temple is attended by quite a few Mormon servicemen stationed at the nearby bases.

Germany doesn't have the sheer number of American or Allied personnel it used to back in the eighties, for obvious reasons. The other issue is Americans tend to go to English language services and the locals don't.

Instead, NATO has expanded east, to the chagrin of Russia, and places like Poland and Estonia have substantial foreign military. That's probably the best place to look.

One or two countries such as Switzerland and the Republic of Ireland do not have American bases. Switzerland has the oldest temple in Europe by the way. I knew people who were endowed and sealed over there. Iceland doesn't have an American base either these days since Keflavik shut, but the membership there is tiny anyway.

In this neck of the woods, we don't tend to get serving US military, or at least they don't make it obvious. Instead we tend to get academics and businessmen. Edinburgh Ward, and to a lesser extent Glasgow, are full of American students/academics. Edinburgh also has the Scottish Parliament where a lot of BYU students do internships for a few months at a time (there was a major controversy about this some years ago when a far left politician, Patrick Harvie, started complaining about it.) The Aberdeen area used to have a lot of people involved in the oil industry although nowhere near to the extent they once did. Senior missionaries from America also play an active role in keeping the temple going. We've also had one or two Americans around I strongly suspect of being CIA or the like.

I wouldn't say they form a notable part of UK membership at all, although like I say, this probably becomes more significant in the east of Europe. Then again I don't live next door to any major American bases.

I guess that's true. The vast majority of Americans living in Europe today are probably students, businesses people, or tradesmen rather than military personnel. That may not have been the case 35 years ago but I've always wondered if the church counted LDS US citizens temporarily living abroad in their membership statistics for other countries and if they do, how significant are those numbers? I guess it would vary depending on where.

I know in Brazil where I served my mission, has no US military presence that I'm aware of, only had one family of Americans living in one of the branches in Rio.

[Serragon]

As I have said before, I think Nelson sees himself as a reformer. I believe he thinks he is establishing the church more in line with the church of Joseph and is trying to undo what he perceives as false doctrines introduced since Brigham.

The problem is that his vision of Christianity is shaped by modern progressivism, so what he is reforming us to is not the church as Joseph saw it but as the modern progressive sees it.

[Niemand]

I've always wondered if the church counted LDS US citizens temporarily living abroad in their membership statistics for other countries and if they do, how significant are those numbers? I guess it would vary depending on where.

In non-LDS terms, London has a high number of Americans (not so much in the Outer suburbs.), and places like Oxford, Cambridge and even Edinburgh do. (Edinburgh is probably the most American city in Scotland at least).

On the continent, Americans would likely be found in fashionable college towns and major cities. The likes of Paris and Berlin (in some parts of Berlin, you would struggle to find any Germans...), probably somewhere like Prague too.

[ransomme]

Well there's Ramstein, Heidleberg, RAF Lackenheath, Aviano. I think the Frankfurt Temple is attended by quite a few Mormon servicemen stationed at the nearby bases.

Germany doesn't have the sheer number of American or Allied personnel it used to back in the eighties, for obvious reasons. The other issue is Americans tend to go to English language services and the locals don't.

Instead, NATO has expanded east, to the chagrin of Russia, and places like Poland and Estonia have substantial foreign military. That's probably the best place to look.

One or two countries such as Switzerland and the Republic of Ireland do not have American bases. Switzerland has the oldest temple in Europe by the way. I knew people who were endowed and sealed over there. Iceland doesn't have an American base either these days since Keflavik shut, but the membership there is tiny anyway.

In this neck of the woods, we don't tend to get serving US military, or at least they don't make it obvious. Instead we tend to get academics and businessmen. Edinburgh Ward, and to a lesser extent Glasgow, are full of American students/academics. Edinburgh also has the Scottish Parliament where a lot of BYU students do internships for a few months at a time (there was a major controversy about this some years ago when a far left politician, Patrick Harvie, started complaining about it.) The Aberdeen area used to have a lot of people involved in the oil industry although nowhere near to the extent they once did. Senior missionaries from America also play an active role in keeping the temple going. We've also had one or two Americans around I strongly suspect of being CIA or the like.

I wouldn't say they form a notable part of UK membership at all, although like I say, this probably becomes more significant in the east of Europe. Then again I don't live next door to any major American bases.

I guess that's true. The vast majority of Americans living in Europe today are probably students, businesses people, or tradesmen rather than military personnel. That may not have been the case 35 years ago but I've always wondered if the church counted LDS US citizens temporarily living abroad in their membership statistics for other countries and if they do, how significant are those numbers? I guess it would vary depending on where.

I know in Brazil where I served my mission, has no US military presence that I'm aware of, only had one family of Americans living in one of the branches in Rio.

I think that they count where the membership records are located. So if people move their records, then yes.

I don't think there are tons of Americans here in Europe to make that big a difference. We get done families on a shirt term work assignment, or working for the embassy. Other than that it's rare. Then there are marriages like mine where one spouse is a foreigner. But their are plenty in America like that too.

[Niemand]

I think that they count where the membership records are located. So if people move their records, then yes.

I don't think there are tons of Americans here in Europe to make that big a difference. We get done families on a shirt term work assignment, or working for the embassy. Other than that it's rare. Then there are marriages like mine where one spouse is a foreigner. But their are plenty in America like that too.

Americans are certainly overrepresented in European LDS families and many of the older ones tend to have American relatives or in-laws (This is less common outside the church, but a few such as myself do through non-LDS family lines). As you say, intermarriage... there is a far wider choice of potential spouses among American LDS than there are among the locals. So that's understandable.

We also have a major brain drain to the states with a significant number of locals moving over there.

I am aware of Americans filling a substantial proportion of leadership positions in Scotland. Edinburgh is practically an American ward.

[ransomme]

I think that they count where the membership records are located. So if people move their records, then yes.

I don't think there are tons of Americans here in Europe to make that big a difference. We get done families on a shirt term work assignment, or working for the embassy. Other than that it's rare. Then there are marriages like mine where one spouse is a foreigner. But their are plenty in America like that too.

Americans are certainly overrepresented in European LDS families and many of the older ones tend to have American relatives or in-laws (This is less common outside the church, but a few such as myself do through non-LDS family lines). As you say, intermarriage... there is a far wider choice of potential spouses among American LDS than there are among the locals. So that's understandable.

We also have a major brain drain to the states with a significant number of locals moving over there.

I am aware of Americans filling a substantial proportion of leadership positions in Scotland. Edinburgh is practically an American ward.

Damn Yankees

[Silver Pie]

Damn Yankees

The 1958 version is better.









Oh, wait. Wrong Yankees.

[Seed Starter]

Nelson seems to me to be a bit narcissistic. He can't help talking about himself.

Nelson thinks Nelson is just fabulous!!

[Niemand]

Just listening to a woman from Fairbanks at an open mike here. She mentioned it is the coldest major city in the USA. Maybe she finds it warmer here.

[Serragon]

Just listening to a woman from Fairbanks at an open mike here. She mentioned it is the coldest major city in the USA. Maybe she finds it warmer here.

I like Fairbanks a lot, but only someone from Fairbanks would consider a town of 32K people a major US City...

[Niemand]

Just listening to a woman from Fairbanks at an open mike here. She mentioned it is the coldest major city in the USA. Maybe she finds it warmer here.

I like Fairbanks a lot, but only someone from Fairbanks would consider a town of 32K people a major US City...

I can't remember the phrase she used but I knew roughly what she meant. 32K is still substantial although hardly megalopolis material.