The general feel of this site

[Dusty Wanderer]

I use to think that I was on an island with what I was noticing and discovering about our past and what it could possibly mean... maybe even starting to question my ability to discern because of that fact. Then I found this site, which was just the right dose of comfort and discomfort. I welcome both because somewhere in there is the truth.

The idea that truth is always comforting or "positive" can be a stumbling block. (cf. 1 Nephi 14:1-3)

[FrankOne]

I asked out of curiosity because I was on AVOW for about 3 yrs and RKY would post now and again . He was always the most staunch supporter of the Q15. When covid hit, the site mgmt, inc RKY, went nutty fruitcake and started exing (banning)those that spoke against the church leadership. They also were censoring posts for the same reason. It was laughable. That's when I left and came here.

I am wondering if your reference of his excommunication applies to another 'Young' that was a bishop? . He got exed for speaking against the church due to child abuse being covered up , (if I recall correctly).

Are you talking about Roger or Christopher? I joined the site years ago (probably over 15 years ago) - about the time Roger gave or sold it to Christopher (I was a month-old member when they made the new site, so whatever year that was was when I joined). As I recall, Roger had been called to be in the bishopric and was advised to distance himself from the site. Roger had written a three book trilogy. The first was called And the Moon Shall Turn to Blood. I had those three books. Might still have them. They were quite good. The site was into dreams and visions, and preparing for the last days - oh, and tent cities was a big thing.

In the years I was on AVOW, I never saw Roger post. Maybe at the beginning, he posted a little, but as it gained more steam under Christopher, he was no longer a main part of it at all.

By the time you were there, it would have been Christopher kicking people out for evil speaking against leaders. I've seen that happen. He also was kicking out people who spoke positively about Denver Snuffer. I don't know why he didn't kick me off; maybe I wasn't as forceful as some of my friends who he kicked off for speaking about DS. Christopher was also very nice to me - let me be a member at a reduced or free price because I rarely had money enough for it. I don't think I ever paid the full price. He was a very kindhearted man.

Edited to fix the title of the book.

If I recall correctly, I read 3-5 threads of Roger's . The reaction from the avowites was like Moses coming down from the mountain. 20 'likes' within hours. He posted in other threads a few times as well. In my weakness, I enjoyed confronting him and questioning his positions. Suffice it to say that he didn't like me and neither did Christopher.

[Silver Pie]

If I recall correctly, I read 3-5 threads of Roger's . The reaction from the avowites was like Moses coming down from the mountain. 20 'likes' within hours. He posted in other threads a few times as well. In my weakness, I enjoyed confronting him and questioning his positions. Suffice it to say that he didn't like me and neither did Christopher.

Oh, definitely, the reaction would be like Moses coming down from the mountain. I didn't know him well enough to know what he thought about confrontation, but I know Christopher would react badly to it.

Maybe I missed those threads, but most likely, they were after my time there. I think the very last time I had an account was in maybe 2014. I drifted over to ldsglo when it was created (I forget the year, but it was when Cowboy, Cherokee, and a few others were ousted for disagreeing with Christopher). I liked it a lot better. It was on glo that I came across this (LDSFF) site.

[BKColt]

This site is becoming a "whack-a-mole" experience, and those who post run the risk of playing the role of the mole sticking its neck out.

[Chip]

This site is becoming a "whack-a-mole" experience, and those who post run the risk of playing the role of the mole sticking its neck out.

Yes, the whack-a-mole talk from Renlund, I believe.

The real problem is that the church has lied about so many things and has acted disingenuously on so many fronts, that people are bound to realize these things and get upset about them. You seem to consider yourself safe because you're in agreement with the liars.

[Thinker]

Freedom is in the name of this forum. So opinions from the church can do no wrong to the church can do no right exist here. When one brings up his or her beliefs and wants to discuss doctrine you get everyone's opinion. I guess it ultimately comes to whether or not a person can handle those that completely disagree or have a bone to pick with a particular topic. Some topics have been rehashed so many times and sides drawn that it's near impossible to have any sort of reasonable discussion.

Most love free speech or at least the idea of free speech. It becomes difficult when somebody's free speech is something you vehemently disagree with or find ludicrous. If one believes they already have the truth and wants to discuss their beliefs with like minded folks then have at it. But somewhere in that approach the seeking of truth could be stifled.

"… If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.

… The opinion which it is attempted to suppress by authority may possibly be true. They have no authority to decide the question for all mankind, and exclude every other person from the means of judging. To refuse a hearing to an opinion, because they are sure that it is false, is to assume that their certainty is the same thing as absolute certainty.

… Absolute princes, or others who are accustomed to unlimited deference, usually feel this complete confidence in their own opinions on nearly all subjects. … [they] place the same unbounded reliance only on such of their opinions as are shared by all who surround them, or to whom they habitually defer."
John Stuart Mill (1806–1873), On Liberty. 1869. Chapter II: Of the Liberty of Thought and Discussion

Good points & quote.
I believe so strongly in free speech! It seems an important means of testing to distinguish between truths & falsehoods.

One thing I worry about is getting too attached to some idea that I might be wrong about (as I have been before). So, I try to argue with myself sometimes to see if I’m missing something - but that can take much longer than having a good debate or argument with someone who sees things very differently.

Each person sees things uniquely so each has unique contributions.

[BKColt]

This site is becoming a "whack-a-mole" experience, and those who post run the risk of playing the role of the mole sticking its neck out.

Yes, the whack-a-mole talk from Renlund, I believe.

The real problem is that the church has lied about so many things and has acted disingenuously on so many fronts, that people are bound to realize these things and get upset about them. You seem to consider yourself safe because you're in agreement with the liars.

There you go again. Jumping to unfounded conclusions.

[Chip]

This site is becoming a "whack-a-mole" experience, and those who post run the risk of playing the role of the mole sticking its neck out.

Yes, the whack-a-mole talk from Renlund, I believe.

The real problem is that the church has lied about so many things and has acted disingenuously on so many fronts, that people are bound to realize these things and get upset about them. You seem to consider yourself safe because you're in agreement with the liars.

There you go again. Jumping to unfounded conclusions.

I wish you would answer my questions about the COVID-injection coloring page in Friend.

1) What do you make of the coincident timing with the WHO campaign to inject kids starting in June 2021?

2) What do you make of the church's incremental scrubbing of the coloring page?

[HeberC]

You can focus on what is constructive, instead. It's the same for every other moment in life.

[Chip]

You can focus on what is constructive, instead. It's the same for every other moment in life.

Is it not constructive to make people aware of the spiritual chains they are languishing in? If a person can wake up and realize they need to move towards God, that is a huge thing for them and it makes Heaven rejoice. The only loser is the devil.

[Silver Pie]

You can focus on what is constructive, instead. It's the same for every other moment in life.

Is it not constructive to make people aware of the spiritual chains they are languishing in? If a person can wake up and realize they need to move towards God, that is a huge thing for them and it makes Heaven rejoice. The only loser is the devil.

I thought HeberC was addressing the op, who was complaining about this site. There's much constructive here, if one is open to hearing different viewpoints. Maybe I misunderstood. I dunno.

[Chip]

You can focus on what is constructive, instead. It's the same for every other moment in life.

Is it not constructive to make people aware of the spiritual chains they are languishing in? If a person can wake up and realize they need to move towards God, that is a huge thing for them and it makes Heaven rejoice. The only loser is the devil.

I thought HeberC was addressing the op, who was complaining about this site. There's much constructive here, if one is open to hearing different viewpoints. Maybe I misunderstood. I dunno.

You may be right. I wasn't sure of the context of the comment, but I figured it was most likely about the last few posts. Sorry, HeberC.

I am hoping BKColt responds to my questions.

[BeNotDeceived]

You can focus on what is constructive, instead. It's the same for every other moment in life.

Truth is the eternal bullseye upon which you must focus.

[cyclOps]

PSRDS is this forum’s version of TDS

[Fred]

You can focus on what is constructive, instead. It's the same for every other moment in life.

Sure. One can live in dream land or face reality. Like having a positive attitude about satan, one might say "What lovely horns you have." Or that sure is a nice pitchfork.

[Being There]

This site is becoming a "whack-a-mole" experience, and those who post run the risk of playing the role of the mole sticking its neck out.

Yes, the whack-a-mole talk from Renlund, I believe.

The real problem is that the church has lied about so many things and has acted disingenuously on so many fronts, that people are bound to realize these things and get upset about them. You seem to consider yourself safe because you're in agreement with the liars.

exactly !
those members - (who aren't the blind - led by the blind - and who don't worship the Q15)
those members who can see what's really going on - like many in this forum,
are just fed up with all the BS and deception in the church -
and want to speak out - and say how they feel - and say the truth.

Many feel angry - when they find out that they've been deceived all this time -
and many others feel sad to know the truth -
after all their lives believing that "all is well in Zion" and the church and it's leaders
can never do anything wrong.

[BKColt]

Yes, the whack-a-mole talk from Renlund, I believe.

The real problem is that the church has lied about so many things and has acted disingenuously on so many fronts, that people are bound to realize these things and get upset about them. You seem to consider yourself safe because you're in agreement with the liars.

There you go again. Jumping to unfounded conclusions.

I wish you would answer my questions about the COVID-injection coloring page in Friend.

1) What do you make of the coincident timing with the WHO campaign to inject kids starting in June 2021?

2) What do you make of the church's incremental scrubbing of the coloring page?

Been gone awhile, back to give my 2 cents worth.

1. I personally do not believe it was a coincidence in timing to have the innoculation coloring page show up (early in March by "accident", then June) just as the "safe and effective" god-send experimental MRNA shots descended on the worldwide populace. I registered my disapproving sentiment (as did many, many others) immediately to the Friend editorial staff.

2. I haven't looked into the "incremental scrubbing" so don't really have anything to add to that line.

My bottom line. Neither safe nor effective, and I'm tired of anyone or thing attempting to groom children to a specific line of thought.... except perhaps Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny.... ok, I'm a hypocrite.

[Mindfields]

Despite what cult leaders say an open and questioning mind will get you closer to the truth. Truth is a hard pill to swallow.

[Reluctant Watchman]

There you go again. Jumping to unfounded conclusions.

I wish you would answer my questions about the COVID-injection coloring page in Friend.

1) What do you make of the coincident timing with the WHO campaign to inject kids starting in June 2021?

2) What do you make of the church's incremental scrubbing of the coloring page?

Been gone awhile, back to give my 2 cents worth.

1. I personally do not believe it was a coincidence in timing to have the innoculation coloring page show up (early in March by "accident", then June) just as the "safe and effective" god-send experimental MRNA shots descended on the worldwide populace. I registered my disapproving sentiment (as did many, many others) immediately to the Friend editorial staff.

2. I haven't looked into the "incremental scrubbing" so don't really have anything to add to that line.

My bottom line. Neither safe nor effective, and I'm tired of anyone or thing attempting to groom children to a specific line of thought.... except perhaps Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny.... ok, I'm a hypocrite.

I do agree w/ your sentiments about grooming. So how do you react to teaching little children the “Follow the Prophet” song in primary? It drips with blind obedience. You will not find the words “follow the prophet” in any scripture anywhere. I mean, if that isn’t conditioning, I don’t know what is. The church teaches fractional beliefs (and some damningly false ones too).

Why can’t they simply teach what is outlined in 2 Nephi 28:30-31?

Oh, and speaking of “unfounded”, was lying about hiding $32B not enough for you?

[JuneBug12000]

PSRDS is this forum’s version of TDS

I dont think it is Prophet Seer and Revelator Derangement Syndrome, as you shared the acronym meant elsewhere.

I believe it is natural when you have a long and trusted relationship, and then discover that some of what has been said or done is a lie, to start checking if there are other lies or problems.

Have you never known someone who ignored red flags in the relationship and lived to regret it?

Our path to Jesus is not a small thing to be trifled with. We must not avoid difficult truths or we risk our salvation. We must check and double check that we are on track and not deceived. God commands us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling before Him.

I think that is most of what is happening when I read people's posts on LDSFF.

[BeNotDeceived]

3 Couples over 8 days with similar questions
Post by ransomme » Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:32 am

No joke, in the last 8 days three couples asked my wife and I similar questions over dinner...

All 3 conversations started with...

* What did you think about conference?

From there other common themes/questions were...

* What do you think about the temple?
* What do we do if the leaders are corrupt?
* What do we now/next?

They also said similar things like they are there for the community and the Gospel, with living the Gospel and following the Messiah as priority.

Now I need to go back and ask what sparked them to ask.

Anyhow I found it interesting. All three couples are active members. The couples tanned in age from mid 20s to early 50s

I wonder if Church Inc knows just how much trouble is just under a the surface?

Mainstream me will add this to 38ii anomalies.

[honestseeker12]

I am new to making posts here, although I have been a lurker here for about a year I think. I actually tried to join this forum about 3 times before, but I never got the email that was supposed to be sent to be able to activate my registration. Anyway, I decided to try again today, and it worked. I just want to thank the people who have posted here about many things. I have found valuable gems in my search for truth by people just posting links to other sites, videos, etc. and I am amazed at some of the things I have learned. I am also thankful for people letting me know through their posts and stories that I am not alone in my journey, even though I sometimes feel like I am, and it gets confusing along the way. The cognitive dissonance has been very uncomfortable at first in my awakening to realize that all is not well in Zion, and this site has been a blessing. Thank you all.

[creator]

Welcome!