LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:12 pm**

From what I understand, the following quote came from the president of the LDS church. Do you guys actually believe that this man is a prophet? This quote really singed my better nature and made me quite upset. He is actively striving to divide families and to shut down conversations that contradict anything the church leaders say.

You have your gods.

“The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe.” —Russell Nelson

Et tu Brute?

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:25 pm**

Basically, if you don’t agree with RMN, you are a disciple of Satan.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:35 pm**

Let’s take it line by line.

The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.

True

There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions.

True

Please be prepared.

Unobjectionable counsel.

Never take counsel from those who do not believe.

Nothing wrong with this either. Why would a man take spiritual advice from someone who disagrees with his chosen spiritual path? Would you take advice on keto from a vegan?

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:36 pm**

Believe in what exactly? Everything he ever says in conference is amibiguous.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:38 pm**

Blue Marble wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:35 pm Let’s take it line by line.

The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.
True
There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions.
True
Please be prepared.
Unobjectionable counsel.
Never take counsel from those who do not believe.
Nothing wrong with this either. Why would a man take spiritual advice from someone who disagrees with his chosen spiritual path? Would you take advice on keto from a vegan?

This man is evil. He is dividing families.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:39 pm**

p8riot wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:36 pm Believe in what exactly? Everything he ever says in conference is amibiguous.

I’d have to pull the full quote. I hope that members wake up to the corrupt teachings of this man.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:43 pm**

He puts up a facade with his smiling and tender speaking. It's emotional manipulation and I find it very errie.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:50 pm**

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:38 pm
Blue Marble wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:35 pm Let’s take it line by line.

The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.
True
There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions.
True
Please be prepared.
Unobjectionable counsel.
Never take counsel from those who do not believe.
Nothing wrong with this either. Why would a man take spiritual advice from someone who disagrees with his chosen spiritual path? Would you take advice on keto from a vegan?
This man is evil. He is dividing families.

Hmm, sounds familiar:

“Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.”

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:51 pm**

RosyPosy wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:43 pm He puts up a facade with his smiling and tender speaking. It's emotional manipulation and I find it very errie.

He's so happy when he carefully tells ten truths and then a subtle and damning lie. He hides it carefully, but I sense a little bit of duper's delight. I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 9:51 pm**

bigotry :
the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life:

aka, Religious Bigot

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 10:38 pm**

Here is the entire paragraph. It doesn’t get better:

“As you think celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think celestial and don’t question your testimony. The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.” There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust. From prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will show unto you the things what ye should do. Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation. As you think celestial, your faith will increase.“

Such a screwed up mishmash of philosophies and ideas here.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 10:55 pm**

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:12 pm From what I understand, the following quote came from the president of the LDS church. Do you guys actually believe that this man is a prophet? This quote really singed my better nature and made me quite upset. He is actively striving to divide families and to shut down conversations that contradict anything the church leaders say.

You have your gods.

“The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe.” —Russell Nelson

Et tu Brute?

I think President Nelson is spot on with this quote. People will become offended and leave for all sorts of reasons. It’s sad to see them go. We should still maintain association with those who are disaffected, especially family members, but we shouldn’t take counsel from them to follow them down the same path they took.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:04 pm**

what if he believes ..

prolly true he does not believe/prefer philo's israel means 'seeing god' and/but says "the very name of Israel refers to a person who is willing to let God prevail in his or her life", and president may actually believe(show/serve in his life through secret sociey's covenant path) his hope-to-prevail one is literal godsending jab promoting un-wef's luciferian god ... dangerously ambiguous enough ..

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm**

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 10:38 pm Here is the entire paragraph. It doesn’t get better:

“As you think celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think celestial and don’t question your testimony. The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.” There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust. From prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will show unto you the things what ye should do. Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation. As you think celestial, your faith will increase.“

Such a screwed up mishmash of philosophies and ideas here.

He's exactly right.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm**

Bjǫrnúlfr wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 10:55 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:12 pm From what I understand, the following quote came from the president of the LDS church. Do you guys actually believe that this man is a prophet? This quote really singed my better nature and made me quite upset. He is actively striving to divide families and to shut down conversations that contradict anything the church leaders say.

You have your gods.

“The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe.” —Russell Nelson

Et tu Brute?
I think President Nelson is spot on with this quote. People will become offended and leave for all sorts of reasons. It’s sad to see them go. We should still maintain association with those who are disaffected, especially family members, but we shouldn’t take counsel from them to follow them down the same path they took.

The abused clinging to their handler.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm**

JLHPROF wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 10:38 pm Here is the entire paragraph. It doesn’t get better:

“As you think celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think celestial and don’t question your testimony. The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.” There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust. From prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will show unto you the things what ye should do. Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation. As you think celestial, your faith will increase.“

Such a screwed up mishmash of philosophies and ideas here.
He's exactly right.

About being screwed up?

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:12 pm**

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 10:38 pm Here is the entire paragraph. It doesn’t get better:

“As you think celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think celestial and don’t question your testimony. The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.” There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust. From prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will show unto you the things what ye should do. Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation. As you think celestial, your faith will increase.“

Such a screwed up mishmash of philosophies and ideas here.
He's exactly right.
About being screwed up?

Funny.
President Nelson as quoted here is exactly correct.
He's not always correct, but this quote is true.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:16 pm**

Here we have a church that supposedly had multiple talks about avoiding racism, yet the man himself promotes religious bigotry and prejudice.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:32 pm**

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm
Bjǫrnúlfr wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 10:55 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:12 pm From what I understand, the following quote came from the president of the LDS church. Do you guys actually believe that this man is a prophet? This quote really singed my better nature and made me quite upset. He is actively striving to divide families and to shut down conversations that contradict anything the church leaders say.

You have your gods.

“The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe.” —Russell Nelson

Et tu Brute?
I think President Nelson is spot on with this quote. People will become offended and leave for all sorts of reasons. It’s sad to see them go. We should still maintain association with those who are disaffected, especially family members, but we shouldn’t take counsel from them to follow them down the same path they took.
The abused clinging to their handler.

Not at all. What we’re dealing with is a classic case of "they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone."

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:37 pm**

Bjǫrnúlfr wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:32 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm
Bjǫrnúlfr wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 10:55 pm

I think President Nelson is spot on with this quote. People will become offended and leave for all sorts of reasons. It’s sad to see them go. We should still maintain association with those who are disaffected, especially family members, but we shouldn’t take counsel from them to follow them down the same path they took.
The abused clinging to their handler.
Not at all. What we’re dealing with is a classic case of "they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone."

And if you leave the church, you are apparently a disciple of satan. Go figure.

BTW, I think you’d be surprised at the number of people who have thanked me for speaking up. I’ve had about 10,000 people visit my website. Your tired phrase of “they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone.” is such a weak argument for when a person is striving to show where the church has left behind Christ’s teachings. You could use the same argument with any person who leaves a church when the church becomes apostate. According to the church, it’s never them, it’s always the member.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:44 pm**

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:12 pm “The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe.” —Russell Nelson

The big HOLE in this statement is that the faith that Paul was referring to is NOT the same faith that the church endeavors to instill in people.

Paul was referring to faith in Christ, while the church pays lip service to Christ in order to implement a bait-and-switch tactit intended to redirect faith to itself and its proprietary gospel add-on products, which cost irrational allegiance to the organization, plus money.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:49 pm**

Chip wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:44 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:12 pm “The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe.” —Russell Nelson

The big HOLE in this statement is that the faith that Paul was referring to is NOT the same faith that the church endeavors to instill in people.

Paul was referring to faith in Christ, while the church pays lip service to Christ in order to implement a bait-and-switch tactit intended to redirect faith to itself and its proprietary gospel add-on products, which cost irrational allegiance to the organization, plus money.

We had a newly baptized couple in our home years ago. The young husband said something to the effect of he felt that he’d joined an MLM or a pyramid scheme. Once they get you in, they start to expand upon the tiered system of exaltation w/in the corporation. I told him he just needed to have faith and pay his tithing. I called him probably a year ago and apologized for the way I acted.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:51 pm**

Bjǫrnúlfr wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:32 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:08 pm
Bjǫrnúlfr wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 10:55 pm

I think President Nelson is spot on with this quote. People will become offended and leave for all sorts of reasons. It’s sad to see them go. We should still maintain association with those who are disaffected, especially family members, but we shouldn’t take counsel from them to follow them down the same path they took.
The abused clinging to their handler.
Not at all. What we’re dealing with is a classic case of "they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone."

Imagine telling missionaries to leave people alone. Don't spread truth. Why can't they just leave people alone? That's crazy. Discovering that one has been lied to often prompts people to share their discovery with others. Leaving the church doesn't mean dropping God and the gospel contrary to what some think. Sometimes it does. Also when your family is church broke it's hard to make a clean break without ditching the family. Often times it is family that insist on bringing up the church and trying to reactivate family members. Some families judge leavers unfairly and can be unkind and shunning. When that happens try to forget about the church. It can be a challenge especially in Utah. Why can't they leave it alone goes both ways.

Posted: **October 1st, 2023, 11:55 pm**

"Never take counsel from those who do not believe."

I believe, not in RMN but in Christ. Are they allowed to talk to me?

Posted: **October 2nd, 2023, 12:03 am**

money?! - - >> mammon -->> prosperity gospel preachers - ->> carnal security ..

difficult time still continuing for lds general members within the church ..

"21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.
"
2 nephi 28

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Nelson—Departing the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils…

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