Re: Nelson—Departing the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils…
Posted: October 2nd, 2023, 1:21 pm
by Subcomandante
Fred wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2023, 11:30 am
Subcomandante wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2023, 11:11 am
Bjǫrnúlfr wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2023, 9:57 am
I see no correlation between what goes on here on this forum and what Moroni did. I understand the desire to vent and interact with like-minded individuals, but let’s not act like this is something it’s not.
Mankind is not being warned or woken up based on a few dozen anonymous individuals on a forum almost no one even knows exists, let alone reads, airing their grievances with a specific church, most have either left behind or are in the process of leaving behind. What goes on here is almost completely self serving.
There are many people on this forum that do believe. They believe Joseph Smith. They believe the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. They feel like the Church of Jesus Christ has fallen astray, or at minimum the current leadership is starting to stray from older teachings from the Church. Others feel like the current leadership despite calling themselves prophets, seers, and revelators, have not exhibited the fruits of them. Others have prayed for a witness of that, and have not gotten an answer.
Until about 24 hours ago, I was in this camp of saying the leadership possess no fruits of being called prophets, seers, and revelators. With Nelson's talk, I felt something that I hadn't felt in a while. The last time I felt it, it was while I was a missionary, 17 years ago. An unmistakable feeling from on high. The same feeling that I had over twenty years ago when I prayed to know about the veracity of the Book of Mormon, through which I learned that I could pray to know the truth of all things.
The Lord is calling on EVERYONE, through His messengers, to repent. These messengers are not all exclusively within the Church of Jesus Christ. And there are some within the Church of Jesus Christ that claim to be His messengers, but are really infiltrators seeking to damage the flock.
A lot of these messengers that are identified as the true messengers will have a dubious past. The sons of Mosiah along with Alma Junior certainly had sordid pasts. Joseph Smith had a checkered history of sorts. Don't get me started with Brigham Young. Everyone on this board is aware of Nelson's past memberships in college fraternities and secret societies. The fact of the matter is if you truly repent of your past actions, and then pledge yourself in service to the Almighty wherever He might call you, the Almighty will cover you and your sins discarded. You become born again with a new identity. The current prophet (who I have no qualms now in declaring that he is a prophet), has mentioned what that new identity should be:
Son of God.
Son of the Covenant.
Disciple of Jesus Christ.
Don't you think that it would be helpful if Russell came clean about the Skull and Bones? Like the mafia, the only way to leave is in a box? I'm all for repentance and forgiving anyone that truly has. I have seen no indication that RMN gives a hoot what anyone thinks about his having sex with a corpse in a coffin or whatever the ritual was. I haven't even heard of him being willing to admit the truth of his participation.
I have seen and heard sometimes from his own lips what a wonderful organization the WEF, UN, NAACP, Black Lives Matter, Red Cross, etc. No need to wonder even the slightest little bit about his total devotion to those purely satanic organizations. He even agrees with the Muslims that want to cut the heads off of infidels. He accepts queers. He tells lies about his personal experiences like the airplane story. He hires million dollar attorneys to defend child molesters. Gotta really love that one.
Do you think it is a coincidence that KSL and the Deseret News say that the reason he could not attend conference is that he had fallen?
One thing that I wished the Church leadership would do, would be to talk of their sinful past. I have seen many Evangelical preachers preach with power precisely because they were not afraid to show off their old gang paraphenalia, or their tattoos, or other instances of them having sinned. Today's Church leadership, at least in the General level, does not do that, and that is a huge disservice. I have seen local leaders do that, and wherever they are found, their wards and stakes are growing very quickly. Why? Because they know what it is like to live on the other side, and how that is a dead-end. To be able to call oneself a Son of God, a Son of the Covenant, and Disciple of Jesus Christ, after having gone through some VERY pernicious sins in the past, and to guide people to truth and light, THAT is true power.
One of my best friends in the MTC was precisely such a person. He was a bit older, 23 years old. But he had become a member one year prior, and he had his pictures with him with his weed and other drugs that he used to do. The knowledge of the gospel plus his very studious means of learning it, got him out of his sins.
When I read the Book of Mormon, the most powerful testimonies for me are not those of Nephi or Sam or Captain Moroni. They are of Enos, of Lamoni, of Alma Junior and of the Sons of Mosiah. They had wretched lives initially, then they sought out the Savior, was touched by Him, and they went about doing good things.
Re: Nelson—Departing the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils…
Posted: October 2nd, 2023, 3:38 pm
by Seed Starter
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2023, 6:30 am
Chip wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2023, 12:33 am
You don't understand because you don't see the problem.
The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.
Using that phrase is akin to telling the sons of Mosiah to just stay home in their comfy little beds and let the Lamanites just go on their merry way. No need to preach to a people who are wayward.
Or heaven forbid a person preach repentance to their own people, even their own family and friends.
When a snake enters the hen house you raise the alarm. But no, what we have here is the very “watchmen” being dumb and greedy dogs and the hens telling us to leave them alone.
These scriptures teach me something important.
Ezekiel 33
3
If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but
his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.
7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die;
if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Why can't I just leave it alone? We're not supposed to leave it alone. I guess to some all is well in zion so there's nothing left to do but bring others to the zion we have through social media missionary work and rejoice in a church that is good enough. Any fault finding is obviously intended to break down the church of Christ rather than bring it back into line or bring it more fully in line with where it should be. Leadership are in stay the course mode except for when they dabble with the NAACP or UN orgs and I'm supposed to let it go. My friends and family are still in that burning building of an institution. I won't leave it alone. All is not well in Zion. Wo unto him who says it is.
Re: Nelson—Departing the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils…
Posted: October 2nd, 2023, 6:21 pm
by Being There
a good picture of what's happening right now and what will happen in the future.
and sorry for the repeat of some things
2 Nephi 29
***** 5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them,
and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them.
But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads;
for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
Have we forgotten the covenant the Lord made with
The House of Israel ? YES ! but The Lord hasn't.
The Lord WILL remember it !
3 Nephi 16:11,12, 10
***** 11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel,
and I will bring my gospel unto them.
The Times of the Gentiles is coming to an end.
"We" (the Gentiles -including the church and it's members)
will have filled the measure of our iniquity and have defaulted;
just like they did (the people in Book of Mormon) to us when they too
fell into apostasy and forfeited their blessings to us- that is why the Lord brought His gospel to us -
that is why we have their book - to give us a chance and not make the same mistakes as they did.
That is why they've tried to warn us - in their book - The Book of Mormon.
But we have made the same mistakes as they did - full of pride - and repeating their history.
"they, who for a time enjoyed the blessings of the restored Gospel,"
they will be destroyed with the Gentiles and cut off from the Lord."
They had the gospel, lost it, the Lord brought it to us, and with
The Times of the Gentiles being fulfilled", we will lose it, and it will go back to them.
WHICH IS NOW !
We had our chance.
The gospel and the power and authority is now
going back to the House of Israel
So now we are forfeiting the blessings of the gospel
and they are going back to them.
Hence - the first will be last, and the last, first.
"I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."
The Lord doesn't say if, he says WHEN
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles SHALL NOT have POWER over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day WHEN the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father,
I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
(to continue see above verses 11,12 )
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote
*****
The Father empowers a latter-day servant
""A Bible!, A Bible! We have got a Bible" is referring to the Words of Christ and the Brother of Jared's vision
(the sealed portion) that the end-time servant brings to us - the church - to all the Gentiles - they will reject him and Christ's words.
*** (please see below)
The Book of Mormon comes forth to try the Gentiles' faith:
it contains but the "lesser part" of Jesus' words to the Nephites.(3 Nephi 26:8).
If the Gentiles will believe that portion - the Book of Mormon -
the Lord will manifest to them the greater things also.(3 Nephi 26:9).
The Book of Mormon, the record of a fallen people, contains warnings to the Gentiles: Moroni adds to the Book of Mormon a brief history of the Jaredites, addressing his abridgment specifically to the Gentiles.(Eth. 2:11).
He interrupts his account four times to speak directly to the them. (Eth. 2:9-12; 4:6-5; 8:23-26; 12:6-41).
Moroni has seen the Gentiles in a vision.(Morm 8:35). He tells them, therefore, things they should know.
The nation that does not serve God will be swept off the land. (Eth 2:9-10).
The Gentiles should repent and become clean before the Lord. (Eth. 4:6).
They should not allow secret combinations to get above them. (Eth 8:23-25).
They must exercise faith as did the ancients. (Eth. 12:6-31).
They must have hope and charity. (Eth.12:36-37).
Two consecutive histories of fallen peoples on this land fore-warn
the Gentiles of their own imminent fate. (Eth. 2:11; 8:21-26).
Mormon has vividly described the destruction of the Nephites. (Morm. 6:1-22).
Now Moroni recounts the destruction of the Jaredites in order to persuade
the Gentiles to repent. (Eth. 2:11; 8:23).
The Lord bids the Gentiles to come unto him.(Eth. 4:13).
In him they may be cleansed and sanctified. (Eth. 4:6-7).
The two following parallel statements tell the Gentiles the cause of their unbelief. Rhetorical markers are "when ye shall" and "then shall".
Ether 4
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shallye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. (emphasis added (Italicized) "when ye shall" "then shall"
The parallel nature of this scripture reveals a deeper meaning.
It teaches that people can rend the veil of unbelief- which has caused
them to remain in an awful state of wickedness, hardness of heart, and blindness of mind - by calling on the Father in the name of Jesus with a broken heart and a a contrite spirit.
It further teaches that the great and marvelous things hidden up from the foundation of the world are the Father's fulfillment of his covenant with the house of Israel, as contained in the revelations of John. These great and marvelous things, however, have not yet been revealed. As adverse as it may seem , we conclude from these scriptures, therefore, that many of us as Gentiles still remain in an awful state of wickedness. We have not yet rent the veil of our unbelief- we have not called upon the Father in the name of Jesus as we ought.
The Gentiles' rending of the veil is significant in this overall scripture. Moroni has just shown us how the Brother of Jared "rent the veil".
The Lord now bids the Gentiles to do the same.
When they exercise faith as the Brother of Jared saw.
In other words, the Lord invites the Gentiles to make their calling and election sure by being received into his presences as the Brother of Jared was.
When they do that, he will reveal to them the "greater things", unfolding to them all his revelations.
The Lord's great and marvelous work typifies the greater things.
The Lord performs that work among the Gentiles.
To that end, he sends among them the three Nephite disciples. The great and marvelous work involves the coming forth of the words of Christ.
*****
The Father empowers a latter-day servant to bring forth the words of Christ to
the Gentiles. The servant is the light to the Gentiles. To him, they rally as to an ensign. When the Lord lifts up his hand and ensign to the Gentiles, they perform their saving mission to the house of Israel.
Through his latter-day servant, the Lord concludes His work among the Gentiles and commences His work among the house of Israel: as the Lord's covenant, light, and ensign, the servant personifies the gospel that has hitherto served as a "covenant", "light", and "standard" to the Gentiles, as the gospel has been a "messenger" preparing the way before the Lord, so the servant is a "messenger" who prepares the way before the Lord's coming to earth.
The Book of Mormon contains less than a hundredth part of Jesus' words to the Nephites. Yet, in the last days, the fullness of Jesus' words comes forth to the Gentiles in accordance with the servant's mission.
The plates of Nephi contain the greater part of what Jesus taught the people.
They, therefore, are among the "other books" to come forth. They "make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world".
They make known also the folly and abominations of the Gentiles.
Prophecies about the Gentiles in the latter days thus show two facets.
Those Gentiles who are under condemnation- which causes the Lord to withhold from them the greater things- will remain under condemnation if they do not repent.
For that reason, the Gentiles must turn from their evil ways.
Those Gentiles who make their calling and election sure, to whom the Lord reveals the greater things, do not, of course, represent all the Gentiles.
In the latter days, the gospel turns first to the Gentiles.
But when many of them reject it, the gospel turns to the Jews and other natural lineages of Israel.
***Moroni saw that many Gentiles would mock the Brother of Jared's vision.
Moroni writes that vision in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon.
Many Gentiles too, will not believe the great and marvelous work - will not believe the words of Christ.
Of the words of Christ coming forth in the day, the Gentiles will say, "A Bible!, A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible".
The Words of Christ and the Brother of Jared's vision cover the entire history of humanity. In that respect, they resemble the Bible more than the Book of Mormon does. The two full accounts will come forth to the Gentiles- when some Gentiles become sanctified as the Brother of Jared - and turn from the Gentiles to the house of Israel.
From these scriptures , we gain a clearer idea of how so many Gentiles will sin against the gospel of Jesus Christ .
They will disavow the new revelations the Lord will bring forth. Having formerly received the gospel, many Gentiles will now reject it. Instead of repenting of their iniquities, they will harden their hearts and deny the Lord of Hosts. Refusing to come unto Christ and obey his voice, these Gentiles will be as "salt that hath lost its savor".
At the time they reject the gospel, the wicked Gentiles are "lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations". They are "filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations". Being "lifted up in the pride of their eyes", they "put down the power and miracles of God". Publishing for money, they "preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor".
(3 Nephi 16:10)
These Gentiles have no charity for their fellow beings. They don't thank the Jews nor Lehi's descendants for the scriptures they have received from them. Instead, they curse and hate them and will not recover them. (please see below *** (A) )
The Lord lengthens out his arm to the Gentiles all the day long. But they mar the Lord's servant who brings forth His words.
Their rejecting the Lord's servant and their rejecting the gospel doubly testifies of their apostasy; Nephi, therefore, offers no hope for the Gentiles unless they reconcile themselves to Christ.
Although the Gentiles know God's decrees on this land, many allow secret combinations to get above them. Drunken with iniquity and all manner of abominations, they suffer woes- God's covenant curse.
When they reject his words, the Lord cuts them off from his people.
He removes the fullness of his gospel from among the wicked, giving it to those who will receive it.
With the wicked Gentiles' apostasy and its aftermath, the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
The Lord turns the iniquities of the Gentiles upon their own heads. He comes out in justice against them. The wicked Gentiles bring down the fullness of God's wrath, just as the Jaredites and Nephites did. The Lord visits the Gentiles "with thunder and with earthquake, and with a great noise, and with storm, and with tempest, and with the flame of devouring fire". The sword of justices falls on the wicked Gentiles. He destroys the Gentiles; cities and chariots and executes vengeance and fury upon them.
He covers their land with a desolating sickness. A scourge consumes the wicked.
The unrepentant Gentiles cannot stand before God's power. Lehi's descendants, whom God empowers, marshal themselves and vex the wicked Gentiles.
They go among the Gentiles like a lion among the beasts, treading down and tearing to pieces. Lehi's descendants, who are of the house of Israel, inherit the Gentiles' lands and cities. The Lord reestablishes Lehi's descendants in this land, even as the wicked Gentiles perish.
Although the scriptures say that the Gentiles will perish, the Lord doesn't utterly destroy them. Some Gentiles, as we have seen, turn from their evil ways. Some don't harden their hearts. They don't unite with that great and abominable church nor fight against Zion. These Gentiles know where their blessings come from - they know that the Lord has blessed them with the blessings of Israel.
To save as many Gentiles as will come to him, the Lord calls on them before the day of judgement. he stirs up the Gentiles and the house of Israel in order to persuade them to repent. The Gentiles must repent and not continue in iniquity. They must forthwith repent and humble themselves. If they do, it will be well with them. As they repent and come to the Lord, he will be merciful to them. Those Gentiles who repent and obey the words of Christ will be blessed.
The Gentiles who come unto Christ receive baptism; they obtain a remission of their sins and are filled with the Holy Ghost. When the Gentiles come unto Christ, he shows them their weakness; yet his grace suffices for those who humble themselves. Faith, hope, and charity bring the Gentiles of Christ, the fountain of all righteousness. The Lord saves the righteous Gentiles both temporally and spiritually.
After manifesting himself to the Gentiles, the Lord manifests himself to the Jews. The gospel goes first to the Gentiles and then to the house of Israel.
The Gentiles take the gospel to Lehi's descendants, and also to the Jews.
The Twelve, the Seventy, and other Latter-day Saints assist in carrying the gospel of the Jews.
When the Lord lifts up his hand to the Gentiles, they serve as an "ensign/standard" to the house of Israel.
The house of Israel receives the Book of Mormon through the fullness of the Gentiles. That involves, additionally, the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. "Other books" go forth from the righteous Gentiles to the house of Israel. These books convince the house of Israel of the truthfulness of the gospel and they are blessed again under the covenant.
The Lord softens many Gentiles' hearts toward Lehi's descendants. Many care for the house of Israel and sorrow for their destruction. They curse the house of Israel and serve as fathers and mothers to them. They minister the gospel's fullness to Lehi's descendants. The Lord consecrates the Gentiles' riches to the poor of the house of Israel.
Thus are the natural branches grafted back into the olive tree.
When the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, the Jews again gather to Jerusalem. The righteous Gentiles assist the house of Israel in gathering them from dispersion; they carry the house of Israel to the lands fo their inheritance. They assist Lehi's descendants to gather to the New Jerusalem. They help Lehi's descendants build the city. The Lord's promises are great to the Gentiles. The Lord blesses the righteous Gentiles by numbering them with the house of Israel. The Lord numbers many Gentiles with Lehi's descendants. The Lord has promised this land to Lehi's descendants.
Like them, the righteous Gentiles are blessed on this land forever.
Like them, these Gentiles come down captive no more. The righteous Gentiles also are the covenant people of the Lord.
Analysis of the term Gentiles in the scriptures thus supports our earlier findings about the Gentiles; latter-day mission. But it yields a complete and more detailed picture of what that mission is all about. The question of identities - of Latter-day Saint "Gentiles" and other inhabitants of the Americas- is here resolved.
The twofold nature of the Gentiles in the last days- with some numbered among Lehi's descendants and others cut off from the Lord's people- transcends our Latter-day Saint identity. Those who make their calling and election sure are called "Gentiles", even as those cut off from the Lord's covenant are called "Gentiles". In the end, however, the repentant Gentiles assume the identity of the house of Israel whereas the unrepentant are destroyed. Together with other gentile inhabitants of the Americas, the unrepentant remain "Gentiles" and suffer God's judgments.
Latter-day Saints who fulfill their righteous mission, therefore, are known as Gentiles but only for an interim period.
The interval between the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the Lord's day of judgment serves as a time of probation that determines which identity will emerge. As with all the Lord's covenants, that probationary period enables us to prove our faithfulness and to receive the promised blessings. Just as the Jews anciently ministered the gospel to the Gentiles, so will the Gentiles minister it to the house of Israel."
*** (A)
As a natural branch of the olive tree (Romans 11:24), the Jews brought forth the Bible in its purity (1 Nephi 14:23) long before the Gentile church removed from it “many plain and precious parts” and “many covenants of the Lord” (1 Nephi 13:20–40). Of the Gentiles, God thus says, “O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles? O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people. Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?” (2 Nephi 29:4–6).
Because this scripture specifically addresses God’s people “in Zion” (2 Nephi 28:21, 24), it is the end-time descendants of Ephraim who have come through the Gentile lineages who come under this condemnation. A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this: “Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).
Isaiah, in fact, informs us that “a scourge and judgment” will be poured out on many of the children of Zion who are of the tribe of Ephraim. In an entire chapter devoted to Ephraim and its prophets, Isaiah says, “A hail shall sweep away your false refuge and waters flood the hiding place.
Your covenant with death shall prove void, your understanding with Sheol have no effect: when the flooding scourge sweeps through, you shall be overrun by it. As often as it sweeps through, you shall be seized by it: morning after morning it shall sweep through, by day and by night [it shall seize you]; it shall cause terror merely to hear word of it” (Isaiah 28:17–19; cf. D&C 5:19). For those Ephraimites who believe his truth, on the other hand, God “lays in Zion a stone” (Isaiah 28:16; emphasis added)—an end-time seer—as an antidote to the flooding scourge that overruns the wicked.
Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."
Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know.
The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25)."
Re: Nelson—Departing the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils…
Posted: October 2nd, 2023, 10:08 pm
by mike_rumble
“The apostle Paul prophesied that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe.” —Russell Nelson
I understand that Pres. Nelson used to be a great doctor, but sometimes I wonder if he has any education at all when it comes to other Christian denominations. He quotes this passage of Scripture almost as if he's discovered it for the first time and wants us all to know about this new thing. The same passage has been used by hundreds of other Christian churches for exactly the same purpose he's using it, to warn their members not to stray from the official teachings of their particular church. In fact, it has been used primarily in relation to what they consider cults, the JW's, the Adventists, and of course, the Mormons. It was used by the Catholic church throughout the middle ages to warn about the dangers of Protestant heresies.
I'm not saying he shouldn't quote whatever Scriptures are available to him. I find much about the LDS church positive and uplifting, but I wish we could just get over the idea that it is a special church. It is not. It shares 99% of it's doctrines with other churches, from Swedenborg to Ellen G. White and so on. Somewhere in Conference, Pres. Nelson was described as the Prophet for the whole earth, or words to that effect. I wonder if he brought up when he met with the Pope, who calls himself the Father (Pope) for the whole earth. I'm guessing not.