Nelson—Departing the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils…

[Chip]

"Never take counsel from those who do not believe."

I believe, not in RMN but in Christ. Are they allowed to talk to me?

We all know damn well what he meant by that. The follow-the-prophet types will understand it perfectly to mean, "Never take counsel from those who do not believe IN THE CHURCH." It's all very sad. It also pisses me off. Does it anger God, as well? I suspect he's not liking it, either.

[Bjǫrnúlfr]

The abused clinging to their handler.

Not at all. What we’re dealing with is a classic case of "they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone."

And if you leave the church, you are apparently a disciple of satan. Go figure.

BTW, I think you’d be surprised at the number of people who have thanked me for speaking up. I’ve had about 10,000 people visit my website. Your tired phrase of “they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone.” is such a weak argument for when a person is striving to show where the church has left behind Christ’s teachings. You could use the same argument with any person who leaves a church when the church becomes apostate. According to the church, it’s never them, it’s always the member.

You recently proudly announced that you were writing your resignation letter. Then earlier this morning you proudly announced your exit from the church. Yet here you still are hours later all worked up about this or that line from General Conference. I think you really enjoy the attention and want vindication for your decision.

If you want to be free from the church, let it go and move on with your life. Quit spending all of your spare time complaining about the church and trying to prove this or that about the church. Stop worrying about what a church you no longer belong to does. Go in peace and live your life.

[FrankOne]

Believe in what exactly? Everything he ever says in conference is amibiguous.

^ Intentionally ambiguous. Subtle misdirection. His talk writers are very skilled.

[farmerchick]

There seems to be a spirit of contention swirling around this thread. I don't usually want to add to the fray, but this seems to be the norm lately. I hope the contention can turn into peace and the comfort of the atonement can heal anyone anywhere who will allow it.

[FrankOne]

Here is the entire paragraph. It doesn’t get better:

“As you think celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think celestial and don’t question your testimony. The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.” There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust. From prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will show unto you the things what ye should do. Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation. As you think celestial, your faith will increase.“

Such a screwed up mishmash of philosophies and ideas here.

thanks for the full quote in context.

The Gospel of Christ, twisted with expertise to benefit the strength of the global conglomerate by undermining families and alienating anyone attempting to wake up the lost.

[Chip]

Not at all. What we’re dealing with is a classic case of "they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone."

And if you leave the church, you are apparently a disciple of satan. Go figure.

BTW, I think you’d be surprised at the number of people who have thanked me for speaking up. I’ve had about 10,000 people visit my website. Your tired phrase of “they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone.” is such a weak argument for when a person is striving to show where the church has left behind Christ’s teachings. You could use the same argument with any person who leaves a church when the church becomes apostate. According to the church, it’s never them, it’s always the member.

You recently proudly announced that you were writing your resignation letter. Then earlier this morning you proudly announced your exit from the church. Yet here you still are hours later all worked up about this or that line from General Conference. I think you really enjoy the attention and want vindication for your decision.

If you want to be free from the church, let it go and move on with your life. Quit spending all of your spare time complaining about the church and trying to prove this or that about the church. Stop worrying about what a church you no longer belong to does. Go in peace and live your life.

You don't understand because you don't see the problem.

The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.

[sushi_chef]

president nelson sounds somehow pretty much with hidden agenda of never quenching never idling attacking-mindedness specialist type with sharp wedge-in-hand ready ..

[FrankOne]

president nelson sounds somehow pretty much with hidden agenda of never quenching never idling attacking-mindedness specialist type with sharp wedge-in-hand ready ..

indeed.... specialist at using a sharp wedge.

[Bjǫrnúlfr]

And if you leave the church, you are apparently a disciple of satan. Go figure.

BTW, I think you’d be surprised at the number of people who have thanked me for speaking up. I’ve had about 10,000 people visit my website. Your tired phrase of “they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone.” is such a weak argument for when a person is striving to show where the church has left behind Christ’s teachings. You could use the same argument with any person who leaves a church when the church becomes apostate. According to the church, it’s never them, it’s always the member.

You recently proudly announced that you were writing your resignation letter. Then earlier this morning you proudly announced your exit from the church. Yet here you still are hours later all worked up about this or that line from General Conference. I think you really enjoy the attention and want vindication for your decision.

If you want to be free from the church, let it go and move on with your life. Quit spending all of your spare time complaining about the church and trying to prove this or that about the church. Stop worrying about what a church you no longer belong to does. Go in peace and live your life.

You don't understand because you don't see the problem.

The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.

I understand that you see things this way, but I completely disagree with your characterization of the church. And spending countless hours on an anonymous internet discussion forum complaining about the church isn’t helping anyone in your immediate circle to break free from mind control, either.

[Chip]

You recently proudly announced that you were writing your resignation letter. Then earlier this morning you proudly announced your exit from the church. Yet here you still are hours later all worked up about this or that line from General Conference. I think you really enjoy the attention and want vindication for your decision.

If you want to be free from the church, let it go and move on with your life. Quit spending all of your spare time complaining about the church and trying to prove this or that about the church. Stop worrying about what a church you no longer belong to does. Go in peace and live your life.

You don't understand because you don't see the problem.

The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.

I understand that you see things this way, but I completely disagree with your characterization of the church. And spending countless hours on an anonymous internet discussion forum complaining about the church isn’t helping anyone in your immediate circle to break free from mind control, either.

This forum is a pressure-release valve for me. I take some solace in the company of people here. And I used to see things perhaps as you do. I would LOVE to quit thinking about all this, as it is rather consuming at times.

[FrankOne]

It's interesting how RMN's net is miles wide for those following the rainbow, BLM, and antifa.... yet for those seeking to uphold the law of the land, the Constitution or disaffected members, he wields a broad sword. hm.

[FrankOne]

You recently proudly announced that you were writing your resignation letter. Then earlier this morning you proudly announced your exit from the church. Yet here you still are hours later all worked up about this or that line from General Conference. I think you really enjoy the attention and want vindication for your decision.

If you want to be free from the church, let it go and move on with your life. Quit spending all of your spare time complaining about the church and trying to prove this or that about the church. Stop worrying about what a church you no longer belong to does. Go in peace and live your life.

You don't understand because you don't see the problem.

The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.

I understand that you see things this way, but I completely disagree with your characterization of the church. And spending countless hours on an anonymous internet discussion forum complaining about the church isn’t helping anyone in your immediate circle to break free from mind control, either.

and why are you spending so much time defending the church? Why are your efforts any different from his? To criticize his efforts is to criticize yourself. You spend much time trying to put people on this site on the defensive. What this means is that you are attacking them. Why are you complaining about those that leave the mainstream church?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Not at all. What we’re dealing with is a classic case of "they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone."

And if you leave the church, you are apparently a disciple of satan. Go figure.

BTW, I think you’d be surprised at the number of people who have thanked me for speaking up. I’ve had about 10,000 people visit my website. Your tired phrase of “they can leave the church, but they can’t leave it alone.” is such a weak argument for when a person is striving to show where the church has left behind Christ’s teachings. You could use the same argument with any person who leaves a church when the church becomes apostate. According to the church, it’s never them, it’s always the member.

You recently proudly announced that you were writing your resignation letter. Then earlier this morning you proudly announced your exit from the church. Yet here you still are hours later all worked up about this or that line from General Conference. I think you really enjoy the attention and want vindication for your decision.

If you want to be free from the church, let it go and move on with your life. Quit spending all of your spare time complaining about the church and trying to prove this or that about the church. Stop worrying about what a church you no longer belong to does. Go in peace and live your life.

You don’t get it, do you.

[Reluctant Watchman]

You don't understand because you don't see the problem.

The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.

Using that phrase is akin to telling the sons of Mosiah to just stay home in their comfy little beds and let the Lamanites just go on their merry way. No need to preach to a people who are wayward.

Or heaven forbid a person preach repentance to their own people, even their own family and friends.

When a snake enters the hen house you raise the alarm. But no, what we have here is the very “watchmen” being dumb and greedy dogs and the hens telling us to leave them alone.

[Reluctant Watchman]

There seems to be a spirit of contention swirling around this thread. I don't usually want to add to the fray, but this seems to be the norm lately. I hope the contention can turn into peace and the comfort of the atonement can heal anyone anywhere who will allow it.

Contention or passionate discussion? Sure, I could leave enough alone. I could keep my mouth/keyboard shut. But I don’t think members realize how divisive this man is who they call a PSR. He is breaking up families. He is turning farther against son, mother against daughter. He is doing the work of Satan, and telling others that they are the disciples of Satan. An upside down world for sure.

[Reluctant Watchman]

You recently proudly announced that you were writing your resignation letter. Then earlier this morning you proudly announced your exit from the church. Yet here you still are hours later all worked up about this or that line from General Conference. I think you really enjoy the attention and want vindication for your decision.

If you want to be free from the church, let it go and move on with your life. Quit spending all of your spare time complaining about the church and trying to prove this or that about the church. Stop worrying about what a church you no longer belong to does. Go in peace and live your life.

You don't understand because you don't see the problem.

The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.

I understand that you see things this way, but I completely disagree with your characterization of the church. And spending countless hours on an anonymous internet discussion forum complaining about the church isn’t helping anyone in your immediate circle to break free from mind control, either.

How do you know this isn’t helping people close to us? I think you’d be surprised at how much I’ve learned from people on this forum and how that knowledge has helped strengthen my faith in Christ, and show the utter lack of actual prophetic gifts of these men and how they twist and distort doctrine. Do we sometimes spend too much time debating circular logic with people like you? Yes.

[cab]

You don't understand because you don't see the problem.

The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.

Using that phrase is akin to telling the sons of Mosiah to just stay home in their comfy little beds and let the Lamanites just go on their merry way. No need to preach to a people who are wayward.

Or heaven forbid a person preach repentance to their own people, even their own family and friends.

When a snake enters the hen house you raise the alarm. But no, what we have here is the very “watchmen” being dumb and greedy dogs and the hens telling us to leave them alone.

“…. But, but, but you’re not one of the sons of Mosiah!!!”

Now, when people say that to me, I’m grateful to be able to confidently say, “if you had seen and experienced what I have, you wouldn’t be saying that.”

[Bjǫrnúlfr]

You don't understand because you don't see the problem.

The church has many people in spiritual chains. Realizing this, you can't just "go in peace and live your life" It is a heavy burden of knowledge to carry. It may also be true that there's not much that one can do to free anyone, since they don’t want to be freed. I would love to stop thinking about these things, myself, but I am surrounded by people who are entrained into this cult and I want for them to be free from the mind control and have the freedom that God offers them.

I understand that you see things this way, but I completely disagree with your characterization of the church. And spending countless hours on an anonymous internet discussion forum complaining about the church isn’t helping anyone in your immediate circle to break free from mind control, either.

and why are you spending so much time defending the church? Why are your efforts any different from his? To criticize his efforts is to criticize yourself. You spend much time trying to put people on this site on the defensive. What this means is that you are attacking them. Why are you complaining about those that leave the mainstream church?

This is a complete mischaracterization.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Members, if they’re good ones anyways, are tasked with “defending the good name of the church.” A true disciple of christ does not have such spiritual shackles.

[Reluctant Watchman]

We recently studied and discussed this verse as a family. I’m adding it here as a reminder for when I chat with various personalities on the forum or listen to certain religious figures.

108) And behold, when a man does strive to usurp ought that has been given from on high, do not give him of your time or your attention. Nay, strive not with him at all, for his argument is wickedness. Wherefore, how shall you properly steward the precious time the Peacemaker has given you in contending with him who shall speak nonsense? For, has the Peacemaker Himself not taught certain things plainly? Then why shall we spend our time justifying His words in repetition?

[Reluctant Watchman]

One of the biggest opportunities for me is to both challenge false ideas and precepts, yet at the same time following the teachings of Christ. I never thought I’d look at the LDS church in this way:

44 But behold I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father who is in heaven; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good.

[Teancum1]

Narcissists recruit and deploy their flying monkeys as they gaslight their victims. And neither the narcissists or flying monkeys care about the victim except to maintain control over them. Once a narcissist has been identified they tend to ramp up the attacks on their victims as well as encourage their monkeys to do the same.
People will only see the truth if they desire to see and lay aside all the false precepts and persuasions of men. It becomes a lonely challenge to attempt to help someone see something they are unwilling or unable to see.

[TwochurchesOnly]

Here is the entire paragraph. It doesn’t get better:

“As you think celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think celestial and don’t question your testimony. The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.” There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust. From prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will show unto you the things what ye should do. Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation. As you think celestial, your faith will increase.“

Such a screwed up mishmash of philosophies and ideas here.

thanks for the full quote in context.

The Gospel of Christ, twisted with expertise to benefit the strength of the global conglomerate by undermining families and alienating anyone attempting to wake up the lost.

but he begs "please"- twice, so irresistable

[cyclOps]

We recently studied and discussed this verse as a family. I’m adding it here as a reminder for when I chat with various personalities on the forum or listen to certain religious figures.

108) And behold, when a man does strive to usurp ought that has been given from on high, do not give him of your time or your attention. Nay, strive not with him at all, for his argument is wickedness. Wherefore, how shall you properly steward the precious time the Peacemaker has given you in contending with him who shall speak nonsense? For, has the Peacemaker Himself not taught certain things plainly? Then why shall we spend our time justifying His words in repetition?

Quite ironic as you’re upset that Russell M Nelson said something similar.

[Reluctant Watchman]

We recently studied and discussed this verse as a family. I’m adding it here as a reminder for when I chat with various personalities on the forum or listen to certain religious figures.

108) And behold, when a man does strive to usurp ought that has been given from on high, do not give him of your time or your attention. Nay, strive not with him at all, for his argument is wickedness. Wherefore, how shall you properly steward the precious time the Peacemaker has given you in contending with him who shall speak nonsense? For, has the Peacemaker Himself not taught certain things plainly? Then why shall we spend our time justifying His words in repetition?

Quite ironic as you’re upset that Russell M Nelson said something similar.

Oh, there are certainly similarities. But there are also great differences. One of the great ironies I see is how this man sandwiched “think celestial” in one of the most religiously bigoted statements I’ve heard from a church leader in recent memory.