LDS Freedom Forum

Blue Marble wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 9:09 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 5:13 pm If a person feels they have found more happiness and peace, even more pure doctrine and understanding, and that happens to contradict your dictators *cough*, sorry, “leaders, then why wouldn’t I want to share that light with them?

Hard to believe your path has brought you peace and happiness, you come off as irritable and malcontented. You’re not alone, everyone I know who’s left the Church has become miserable.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 9:13 pm

Blue Marble wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 9:09 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 5:13 pm If a person feels they have found more happiness and peace, even more pure doctrine and understanding, and that happens to contradict your dictators *cough*, sorry, “leaders, then why wouldn’t I want to share that light with them?

Hard to believe your path has brought you peace and happiness, you come off as irritable and malcontented. You’re not alone, everyone I know who’s left the Church has become miserable.

I talk about the joy and peace I’ve felt in lots of places on the forum, you probably just seem to chime in on the posts where I passionately express my viewpoint about the wayward nature of the LDS church.

And, I should add, the church is spiritually and physically abusing my family and friends. And half of them don’t even know how controlled and conditioned they are. “We’ll, you just can’t leave it alone… blah, blah, blah.” Yes, I have an attitude. Yes, I don’t take much crap from people anymore. Yes, I strive to think for myself instead of having to choke down what the brethren require I think and feel. You do. You have to swallow the pill or you are seen as less than valiant, or you have to do some serious gymnastic to justify what these men are doing today.

I could go on in great detail about the peace I have felt. Some very personal, and spiritual experiences. What most people end up doing is adding their own inflection to what they read on the internet. You obviously add “irritability” and “malcontent” to my inflection. And sometimes, yeah, I’m super not happy with how this church hurts people. I think that’s a natural response to an abuser.

blitzinstripes wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 4:01 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 9:13 pm

Blue Marble wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 9:09 pm

Hard to believe your path has brought you peace and happiness, you come off as irritable and malcontented. You’re not alone, everyone I know who’s left the Church has become miserable.

I talk about the joy and peace I’ve felt in lots of places on the forum, you probably just seem to chime in on the posts where I passionately express my viewpoint about the wayward nature of the LDS church.

And, I should add, the church is spiritually and physically abusing my family and friends. And half of them don’t even know how controlled and conditioned they are. “We’ll, you just can’t leave it alone… blah, blah, blah.” Yes, I have an attitude. Yes, I don’t take much crap from people anymore. Yes, I strive to think for myself instead of having to choke down what the brethren require I think and feel. You do. You have to swallow the pill or you are seen as less than valiant, or you have to do some serious gymnastic to justify what these men are doing today.

I could go on in great detail about the peace I have felt. Some very personal, and spiritual experiences. What most people end up doing is adding their own inflection to what they read on the internet. You obviously add “irritability” and “malcontent” to my inflection. And sometimes, yeah, I’m super not happy with how this church hurts people. I think that’s a natural response to an abuser.

Truth is, folks like Blue Marble NEED you to be miserable, pained. Full of remorse and anguish. The fact that you have experienced greater peace and light since confronting your doubts and awakening to many false teachings of the church, well that doesn't fit their paradigm. In fact. It destroys it. It's the one single truth that they simply cannot handle because their fragile little testimonies are built up on a sandy foundation- the church's false claim that because they are/ were right on SOME things they are right on ALL things.

I worked for a really BAD employer for a few years. They really took abuse and manipulation to the next level. The thing that really scared them, was people realizing how bad their situation was and leaving. They went to great lengths to try to convince everyone that the grass wasn't greener on the other side of the fence. But eventually, as more and more people started venturing out, people began to wake up and see how toxic the culture was and how indeed the grass really was greener beyond the fence.

Once you've actually ventured out and seen it and tasted for yourself, you realize that in the end, they fed you those lies to keep you on the plantation.

When someone awakens to the apostasy and deception of the modern church, and takes that true leap of faith, willing to cast aside your fears and put your trust in the Lord alone, there is a beautiful and peaceful reassurance that comes. The realization that your faith and your testimony truly ARE rooted in the Savior, and that He is still there for you. Learning that your foundation was true and strong and properly built, knowing that YOUR testimony in Him will not be shaken by wicked men. Then comes significant growth, as you have removed the blinders that you thought were supporting you, but were actually impeding your progress.

Many of us can attest that we have become much more ardent students of the scriptures, pray more fervently, feel the Spirit more strongly, and have much deeper communion with the Lord as we have WITHDRAWN from the mainstream church.

Which is the exact OPPOSITE experience of what the "brethren" want you to believe.

If Blue Marble can't handle that major truth bomb yet, then he simply isn't ready to face that truth. Which is fair We don't all awaken at the same time. But I have found that this forum serves a great purpose. It has become a gathering place of sorts, where people in various stages of awakening can come and grow. The fact that they are HERE....tells me that their awakening is coming.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 8:42 am Holy smokes, I was listening to the song lyrics and this quote from Brigham came to mind... wow!

Trust in Me / Jungle Book

Trust in me
Just in me
Shut your eyes

Trust in me
You can sleep
Safe and sound
Knowing I
Am around

Feb. 23, 1862 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 9:289

“The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so.”

Luke wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 9:47 am
Brigham had a personal promise from Joseph Smith and the Lord in Nauvoo that God would take him from the earth if he went off the rails. Heber C. Kimball and others also got the same promise — and they got it because of their dedication to Joseph Smith — after they proved their complete loyalty to and pure love for (“Total Commitment”) their Priesthood head.

That sentiment got twisted later on to mean “the leaders of the Church can never lead the Church astray”. Not the same thing.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 9:08 pm

LateOutOfBed wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 7:19 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 4:43 pm Everyone is free to do as the please. Follow 'RW and share his reward with him. It is your choice and there are rewards many.

BTW RW I didn't say "you gave up". Giving up has nothing to do with it. Moving on, seeking your own level, that is the purpose of this mortality. No one will be dragged to heaven or to hell. They go where they feel peace. Most, according to Joseph will find their peace in the telestial. So be it. Happy days a head for all. but for those seeking more, keep you opinions, quotes from OT vs. modern scripture to yourself. as it does show the proverbial inability to leave but not leave alone.

And see here's what I do disagree with. People should be able to discuss everything they feel and have discovered somewhere (even ad nauseum). I'm grateful for people like Reluctant who has shared their opinions and interpretations of scripture. It makes me want to seek more. I especially appreciate it when people share well thought out, rational, logical beliefs founded in scripture. Shutting people down is worse, and one of the biggest problems I have with church. I can't go there to have productive discussions and to grow... I just have to "fit the mold". The real issue is, if you don't like it, you don't have to agree. You don't even have to read it. You can move along, or you can disagree in a logical fashion with scripture as well and have an open discussion. I can't even begin to list the people that have opened my eyes to a new way of thinking about things, and deeper understanding of scripture. I don't even agree with all of it! But at least it gives me pause to think about a different perspective.

So, Reluctant, please... don't keep your opinions to yourself. I appreciate much of what you have to say, and I want you to know that. Duke, I even appreciate a lot of what you have to say. But please don't tell people to keep things they feel are important to themselves just because you vehemently disagree with them.

While I will most likely continue various conversations on the forum, my interaction w/ Duke will continue to get less and less.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 5:53 am

blitzinstripes wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 4:01 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 9:13 pm

I talk about the joy and peace I’ve felt in lots of places on the forum, you probably just seem to chime in on the posts where I passionately express my viewpoint about the wayward nature of the LDS church.

And, I should add, the church is spiritually and physically abusing my family and friends. And half of them don’t even know how controlled and conditioned they are. “We’ll, you just can’t leave it alone… blah, blah, blah.” Yes, I have an attitude. Yes, I don’t take much crap from people anymore. Yes, I strive to think for myself instead of having to choke down what the brethren require I think and feel. You do. You have to swallow the pill or you are seen as less than valiant, or you have to do some serious gymnastic to justify what these men are doing today.

I could go on in great detail about the peace I have felt. Some very personal, and spiritual experiences. What most people end up doing is adding their own inflection to what they read on the internet. You obviously add “irritability” and “malcontent” to my inflection. And sometimes, yeah, I’m super not happy with how this church hurts people. I think that’s a natural response to an abuser.

Truth is, folks like Blue Marble NEED you to be miserable, pained. Full of remorse and anguish. The fact that you have experienced greater peace and light since confronting your doubts and awakening to many false teachings of the church, well that doesn't fit their paradigm. In fact. It destroys it. It's the one single truth that they simply cannot handle because their fragile little testimonies are built up on a sandy foundation- the church's false claim that because they are/ were right on SOME things they are right on ALL things.

I worked for a really BAD employer for a few years. They really took abuse and manipulation to the next level. The thing that really scared them, was people realizing how bad their situation was and leaving. They went to great lengths to try to convince everyone that the grass wasn't greener on the other side of the fence. But eventually, as more and more people started venturing out, people began to wake up and see how toxic the culture was and how indeed the grass really was greener beyond the fence.

Once you've actually ventured out and seen it and tasted for yourself, you realize that in the end, they fed you those lies to keep you on the plantation.

When someone awakens to the apostasy and deception of the modern church, and takes that true leap of faith, willing to cast aside your fears and put your trust in the Lord alone, there is a beautiful and peaceful reassurance that comes. The realization that your faith and your testimony truly ARE rooted in the Savior, and that He is still there for you. Learning that your foundation was true and strong and properly built, knowing that YOUR testimony in Him will not be shaken by wicked men. Then comes significant growth, as you have removed the blinders that you thought were supporting you, but were actually impeding your progress.

Many of us can attest that we have become much more ardent students of the scriptures, pray more fervently, feel the Spirit more strongly, and have much deeper communion with the Lord as we have WITHDRAWN from the mainstream church.

Which is the exact OPPOSITE experience of what the "brethren" want you to believe.

If Blue Marble can't handle that major truth bomb yet, then he simply isn't ready to face that truth. Which is fair We don't all awaken at the same time. But I have found that this forum serves a great purpose. It has become a gathering place of sorts, where people in various stages of awakening can come and grow. The fact that they are HERE....tells me that their awakening is coming.

Beautifully said, thank you!

We were visiting with a friend last night. It was so interesting to see how dependent the church wanted her to be in the church, the brethren, and their “authority.” When she took the challenge to #HearHim, they actually don’t mean it. She began writing down the conversations she was having with the Lord. Somehow a copy got into the hands of her local leaders and they put her on probation and told her she couldn’t take the sacrament. It has now been 4 years since this has been going on. When she found the Lord, they told her that couldn’t possibly happen because what the Lord was telling her would only come through the president of the church.

Members, by elevating these men, find themselves as beggars at the table of the church, waiting for them to drop scraps of revelation. If no meat or bread is imparted, they wait patiently upon them, often busy doing all of the mundane callings and busy work. Real servants of the Lord would teach these people how to grow their own food. They would teach members how to truly receive personal revelation, knowing that anyone can speak with the Lord.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 5:53 am

blitzinstripes wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 4:01 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 9:13 pm

I talk about the joy and peace I’ve felt in lots of places on the forum, you probably just seem to chime in on the posts where I passionately express my viewpoint about the wayward nature of the LDS church.

And, I should add, the church is spiritually and physically abusing my family and friends. And half of them don’t even know how controlled and conditioned they are. “We’ll, you just can’t leave it alone… blah, blah, blah.” Yes, I have an attitude. Yes, I don’t take much crap from people anymore. Yes, I strive to think for myself instead of having to choke down what the brethren require I think and feel. You do. You have to swallow the pill or you are seen as less than valiant, or you have to do some serious gymnastic to justify what these men are doing today.

I could go on in great detail about the peace I have felt. Some very personal, and spiritual experiences. What most people end up doing is adding their own inflection to what they read on the internet. You obviously add “irritability” and “malcontent” to my inflection. And sometimes, yeah, I’m super not happy with how this church hurts people. I think that’s a natural response to an abuser.

Truth is, folks like Blue Marble NEED you to be miserable, pained. Full of remorse and anguish. The fact that you have experienced greater peace and light since confronting your doubts and awakening to many false teachings of the church, well that doesn't fit their paradigm. In fact. It destroys it. It's the one single truth that they simply cannot handle because their fragile little testimonies are built up on a sandy foundation- the church's false claim that because they are/ were right on SOME things they are right on ALL things.

I worked for a really BAD employer for a few years. They really took abuse and manipulation to the next level. The thing that really scared them, was people realizing how bad their situation was and leaving. They went to great lengths to try to convince everyone that the grass wasn't greener on the other side of the fence. But eventually, as more and more people started venturing out, people began to wake up and see how toxic the culture was and how indeed the grass really was greener beyond the fence.

Once you've actually ventured out and seen it and tasted for yourself, you realize that in the end, they fed you those lies to keep you on the plantation.

When someone awakens to the apostasy and deception of the modern church, and takes that true leap of faith, willing to cast aside your fears and put your trust in the Lord alone, there is a beautiful and peaceful reassurance that comes. The realization that your faith and your testimony truly ARE rooted in the Savior, and that He is still there for you. Learning that your foundation was true and strong and properly built, knowing that YOUR testimony in Him will not be shaken by wicked men. Then comes significant growth, as you have removed the blinders that you thought were supporting you, but were actually impeding your progress.

Many of us can attest that we have become much more ardent students of the scriptures, pray more fervently, feel the Spirit more strongly, and have much deeper communion with the Lord as we have WITHDRAWN from the mainstream church.

Which is the exact OPPOSITE experience of what the "brethren" want you to believe.

If Blue Marble can't handle that major truth bomb yet, then he simply isn't ready to face that truth. Which is fair We don't all awaken at the same time. But I have found that this forum serves a great purpose. It has become a gathering place of sorts, where people in various stages of awakening can come and grow. The fact that they are HERE....tells me that their awakening is coming.

Beautifully said, thank you!

We were visiting with a friend last night. It was so interesting to see how dependent the church wanted her to be in the church, the brethren, and their “authority.” When she took the challenge to #HearHim, they actually don’t mean it. She began writing down the conversations she was having with the Lord. Somehow a copy got into the hands of her local leaders and they put her on probation and told her she couldn’t take the sacrament. It has now been 4 years since this has been going on. When she found the Lord, they told her that couldn’t possibly happen because what the Lord was telling her would only come through the president of the church.

Members, by elevating these men, find themselves as beggars at the table of the church, waiting for them to drop scraps of revelation. If no meat or bread is imparted, they wait patiently upon them, often busy doing all of the mundane callings and busy work. Real servants of the Lord would teach these people how to grow their own food. They would teach members how to truly receive personal revelation, knowing that anyone can speak with the Lord.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:49 pm

Chip wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 11:44 pm

We had a newly baptized couple in our home years ago. The young husband said something to the effect of he felt that he’d joined an MLM or a pyramid scheme. Once they get you in, they start to expand upon the tiered system of exaltation w/in the corporation. I told him he just needed to have faith and pay his tithing. I called him probably a year ago and apologized for the way I acted.

A few years ago I told my daughter her Grandparents were rolling over in their graves for her leaving the church. They and my 2 brothers and I served on missions. Yep, we were card carrying TBM's. I had to totally apologize to her for this because now I have left the church. The "Godsend" was the straw that broke the camels back. Since then I found out a whole lot more corrupt in the LDS Church since Brigham usurped control. I was in so deep I just couldn't see it.

Next to the Catholics the LDS church is the wealthiest church on earth. It owns over a trillion dollars worth of property in Florida, nearly 3% of the state. It has over 150 billion dollar investment fund and multi million dollar properties all over the world, including a multi million dollar condo in Hawaii. It gives out less than 1% to help the needy. The GA's get over $120,000 annual income which they claim is just a modest stipend. With all the extra perks it amounts to $250,000 a year. Nobody knows how much extra they get sitting on the board of directors for various enterprises they own. They all have second and 3rd homes along with a down town SLC condo. They all die as multi-millionaires all the while claiming we have an unpaid ministry. Biggest lie of any church! Could I please have my tithing back and money I earned and spent for my mission?

I could and have written pages on the corruption of the LDS church. Count me out.

I still have the utmost faith in Christ, the Prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon...

Blue Marble wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:50 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:38 pm

Blue Marble wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 9:35 pm Let’s take it line by line.


True

True

Unobjectionable counsel.

Nothing wrong with this either. Why would a man take spiritual advice from someone who disagrees with his chosen spiritual path? Would you take advice on keto from a vegan?

This man is evil. He is dividing families.

Hmm, sounds familiar:

“Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.”

Luke wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 9:47 am Brigham had a personal promise from Joseph Smith and the Lord in Nauvoo that God would take him from the earth if he went off the rails.

MikeMaillet wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 5:57 am I think there comes a time when we must simply turn our heads and ears the other way when confronted by people who claim to be one thing and are obviously not what they claim to be. Isaiah called our church leaders "barking dogs", "drunkards of Ephraim"... and I believe the words of Isaiah. There is no use in me paying attention to men in expensive suits who have sold their souls in exchange for the trappings of Babylon. Any further attention to the Q15 would constitute fault finding since I have already concluded that the Q15 are false or pseudo-Prophets.

I find it better to simply ignore the Q15 rather than to get worked up over a bunch of, what are to me, shysters and idol worshippers. It would be better to let their mealy-mouthed words go unheard rather than pollute your mind with crap like the "Covenant Path" or stuff like "Think Celestial", nothing more than a corporate sounding platitude.

Nelson crossed the line when he sullied the name of God and associated it with a deadly poison. This puts him in the same league as Jim Jones and makes him a very deadly and dangerous man. He is to be ignored at all costs. Don't read his words, don't look at him and don't give him the time of day. Ignore, ignore, ignore...

Mike

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2023, 7:27 pm losing your family and the love of your life

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 1:03 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 9:47 am Brigham had a personal promise from Joseph Smith and the Lord in Nauvoo that God would take him from the earth if he went off the rails.

And yet he went off the rails with the priesthood ban taking the whole church with him and he stayed on the earth.

Luke wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 2:00 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 1:03 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 9:47 am Brigham had a personal promise from Joseph Smith and the Lord in Nauvoo that God would take him from the earth if he went off the rails.

And yet he went off the rails with the priesthood ban taking the whole church with him and he stayed on the earth.

He didn’t. The Priesthood ban is legit.

ransomme wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 11:59 pm

Luke wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 2:00 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 1:03 pm
And yet he went off the rails with the priesthood ban taking the whole church with him and he stayed on the earth.

He didn’t. The Priesthood ban is legit.

I've clearly demonstrated a number of times that it is a fallacy not based on scripture:

viewtopic.php?p=1378291&hilit=secret+co ... n#p1378291