Why Do So Many Cults Practice Polygamy?

[Luke]

Notice how many of those leaders were women…

Leaders in general aren't women. There's never been a female POTUS, for example. Not saying polygamy is excusable, but that's just the nature of... well, nature.

Also a very important observation. When the BoM talks about the “natural man”, MEN is far more predispositions to pride and greed. There’s something quite significant about the connection women have with their children. Women are far less prone to doing actions that will harm their children. Men are far more prone to go to war. This difference between genders is not always the case. I mean, some women are hellbent on securing their right to kill children through abortion.

And there have been a fair amount of women who have been leaders. We just don’t often get to hear about those stores. There’s a reason it’s called “His”story and not “Her”story.

What on earth are you talking about…

“Natural man” is talking about the nature of MANkind. Or would you rather me use “humankind” or “peoplekind”?

As for “history”, it comes from the Greek word “historia”.

Come on mate you’re better than this.

[Luke]

Also a very important observation. When the BoM talks about the “natural man”, MEN is far more predispositions to pride and greed. There’s something quite significant about the connection women have with their children. Women are far less prone to doing actions that will harm their children. Men are far more prone to go to war. This difference between genders is not always the case. I mean, some women are hellbent on securing their right to kill children through abortion.

And there have been a fair amount of women who have been leaders. We just don’t often get to hear about those stores. There’s a reason it’s called “His”story and not “Her”story.

I think the natural man applies to women as well, just as the word "mankind" also applies to women. Women have their own problems, even if they're not so obvious as war and violence.

You should know that the line about "his story" is a modern feminist talking point, designed to inflict resentment and strife among the genders. Feminism is just another branch of leftism, and leftism is at it's root essentially satanic, set on deconstructing God's laws and essential traditions.

We hear about men in history more because it is males who have done more "historically" notable things by and large. Women's roles traditionally are that of mothers, wives, and caregivers, like you note, not of statesmen, explorers, inventors, etc. There's no "evil patriarchy" bent on suppressing women's accomplishments. If anything there is a coalition of simps trying to overemphasize the role of masculine women and try to intellectually pit them against men in male domains, and thereby convincing them they are "oppressed," when in fact they are being intentionally propped up to suit a particular progressive agenda, who's ultimate goal is to dissolve the role of gender altogether.

You nailed it!!!!

Awoman to that, sista

[Reluctant Watchman]

What on earth are you talking about…

“Natural man” is talking about the nature of MANkind. Or would you rather me use “humankind” or “peoplekind”?

As for “history”, it comes from the Greek word “historia”.

Come on mate you’re better than this.

I think what I said was completely lost on you. Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say it was one or the other. READ people, READ.

Is it fair to say that men are more prone to pride and greed? And... that it is far more likely for them to go to war or commit other heinous acts due to their very nature? There's a reason for that. The very fact that women "labor" to bring children into this world means that have far more connection to their children than men do. They are far less prone (less disposed) to do things that would cause harm to their children. Those things for which you suffer the most become the most valuable.

Men and women are not the same. Are we all fallen? Yes, but read what I said before coming to such a hasty conclusion.

[Reluctant Watchman]

BTW, this also has a lot to do with the OP. Men have less skin in the game when sex is involved. They get off and do their thing. In polygamy, they get off a lot. For women, the creation of a child inside their womb is involved. Sex tends to be a very different experience (mentally and spiritually) for women.

[John Tavner]

Women have the same predispostions to pride and greed- it just manifests differently. Men are more apparent through physical war, and acts of violence- women act in more subtle ways, emotional ways- - gossip, back biting, "queen bee" syndrome, emotional abuse, aggresive behavior passed off as passive. Their greed and pride is in their appearance before others, through the things they purchase, and constant need for attention and validation. The harm they inflict on their children is often emotional abuse, or neglect, "silent treatment" etc... I've spoken of women because of the topic, men are the same, just like I said they are more physical in their expressions. Be not deceived, the natural man exists amongst both and unless they are both born again, their disposition is an enemy towards God, whether htey realize it or not.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Women have the same predispostions to pride and greed- it just manifests differently. Men are more apparent through physical war, and acts of violence- women act in more subtle ways, emotional ways- - gossip, back biting, "queen bee" syndrome, emotional abuse, aggresive behavior passed off as passive. Their greed and pride is in their appearance before others, through the things they purchase, and constant need for attention and validation. The harm they inflict on their children is often emotional abuse, or neglect, "silent treatment" etc... I've spoken of women because of the topic, men are the same, just like I said they are more physical in their expressions. Be not deceived, the natural man exists amongst both and unless they are both born again, their disposition is an enemy towards God, whether htey realize it or not.

You must know different women than I do. But yes, to reiterate, both are susceptible to all manifestations of the natural man.

[Ciams]

Because procreation is a biological imperative and the desires innate in us to fulfill that imperative lead to the same pathologies that are driving other biological necessities like eating/overeating.

Polygamy is nearly always the result of the adulterous pathology at work with a attempt to build a formal familial structure around it.

There are times when eating an excess is necessary. Almost always not. The are times when the Lord commands Polygamy, almost always not.

Author Matt Whitney writes:

Interestingly, you see polygamous patterns in cults that range from those that mimic much of Christianity to those that have drifted far from it. Early leaders in the Latter Day Saints practiced it>4 and even venerated it5. The modern horrors of Warren Jeffs’ Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) were headline news only a few years ago. David Koresh and the Branch Davidians (of Waco massacre fame), Jim Jones (of Jonestown massacre fame), and Charles Manson (of, well, Charles Manson fame) were all cult leaders who either practiced polygamy or practiced partner sharing extensively and abusively.

Here's the full article: https://gospel.vision/why-do-so-many-cu ... -polygamy/

[thaabit]

Awoman to that, sista

*awomen

[Luke]

Awoman to that, sista

*awomen

Surely that would be “theywomen”

[OPMissionary]

Also a very important observation. When the BoM talks about the “natural man”, MEN is far more predispositions to pride and greed. There’s something quite significant about the connection women have with their children. Women are far less prone to doing actions that will harm their children. Men are far more prone to go to war. This difference between genders is not always the case. I mean, some women are hellbent on securing their right to kill children through abortion.

And there have been a fair amount of women who have been leaders. We just don’t often get to hear about those stores. There’s a reason it’s called “His”story and not “Her”story.

I think the natural man applies to women as well, just as the word "mankind" also applies to women. Women have their own problems, even if they're not so obvious as war and violence.

You should know that the line about "his story" is a modern feminist talking point, designed to inflict resentment and strife among the genders. Feminism is just another branch of leftism, and leftism is at it's root essentially satanic, set on deconstructing God's laws and essential traditions.

We hear about men in history more because it is males who have done more "historically" notable things by and large. Women's roles traditionally are that of mothers, wives, and caregivers, like you note, not of statesmen, explorers, inventors, etc. There's no "evil patriarchy" bent on suppressing women's accomplishments. If anything there is a coalition of simps trying to overemphasize the role of masculine women and try to intellectually pit them against men in male domains, and thereby convincing them they are "oppressed," when in fact they are being intentionally propped up to suit a particular progressive agenda, who's ultimate goal is to dissolve the role of gender altogether.

Yes, that's why I said men have a greater predisposition.

While you can chalk the word "his"story to feminism, men have abused women for centuries. And to suggest that looking at it this way is false, is untrue. Men write most of the history books. Men have removed women from many histories. Men need to get over their pride and greed.

And I would disagree about the "more notable"... stuff. Tell that to the women in the NT. I can show you tons of women in the Nemenhah Record who play significant roles in their history. In fact, all of their communities were governed by a women's council that chose the governing council.

I hope you see your future wife as not only an equal but possessing many qualities and attributes that are worth you honoring her for.

Men are not inherently predators of women. And women are not any more oppressed than the general population at large. I don't accept that narrative, I think it's propaganda and anti-male revisionism.

I love women, but for them being women. I don't love women because they can bench more than me, get a better career than me, or dominate me in fields of commerce and industry and politics. I love them for their gentle, intuitive, and warm dispositions, and their beauty both inward and out. And I'm talking about the women that poses traits like this, not the women who reject them. Being born with a vagina doesn't guarantee any of this, it's something that is cultivated and refined. In other words, I love real, feminine women, and tend to resent the more domineering types.

Being historically noteworthy isn't necessarily a good thing, it's just a thing. Hitler was historically noteworthy. I think regular people can be much more remarkable even though they aren't famous. To say men have done more things that are noteworthy in history isn't a slander to women, because it's not a compliment to men. It's just a fact.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Men are not inherently predators of women.

But they are inherently more predatory than women. Again, back to the OP, men are the instigators of polygamy, not women. Polygamy is a predatory behavior. Some people don't like me saying that, but the historical examples are there for all to see the fruits.

[Peeps]

Did God ever allow polygamy in days of old? Did God's prophets ever give other wives to men of old? Hmmm I wonder where this idea of plural wives came from? Why did God put up with polygamy and still give revelation and communications to prophets who practiced such abominations?

The first polygamist in the Bible was Lamech, a descendant of Cain. There was another Lamech too, from Seth's line who produced Noah, as well as another Enoch, who was Cain's son. There was a twin system going on in the days of old, for Cain's line (Gen. 4) is almost a mirror image to Seth's linage with their names.

Just like America is a mirror of the Biblical lands, with the Mississippi River compared with the Nile River, and the "Little Egypt" of IL, Memphis, the Egyptian artifacts found in the Grand Canyon, to the Great Salt Lake comparing to the Dead Sea, etc. I believe America to be the ancient land of Nod, where Cain found his wife. There is a city in Mexico named Tenochtitlan, which is probably the reminiscent city of Enoch of the PoGP, and not too far off is the Yucatán Peninsula, which Joseph Smith was purported to say that this was where the City of Enoch was taken up. I think this was the land of Shinar, where the tower of Babel was. The Book of Jasher chapter 9 gives a detailed account of this.

23 "And all the families assembled consisting of about six hundred thousand men, and they went to seek an extensive piece of ground to build the city and the tower, and they sought in the whole earth and they found none like one valley at the east of the land of Shinar, about two days' walk, and they journeyed there and they dwelt there.
24 And they began to make bricks and burn fires to build the city and the tower that they had imagined to complete.

(This was the original source of the cult of the "builders," the masons, who reject the Chief head of the corner stone, Jesus Christ)

25 And the building of the tower was unto them a transgression and a sin, and they began to build it, and whilst they were building against the Lord God of heaven, they imagined in their hearts to war against him and to ascend into heaven.
26 And all these people and all the families divided themselves in three parts; the first said We will ascend into heaven and fight against him; the second said, We will ascend to heaven and place our own gods there and serve them; and the third part said, We will ascend to heaven and smite him with bows and spears; and God knew all their works and all their evil thoughts, and he saw the city and the tower which they were building.

27 And when they were building they built themselves a great city and a very high and strong tower; and on account of its height the mortar and bricks did not reach the builders in their ascent to it, until those who went up had completed a full year, and after that, they reached to the builders and gave them the mortar and the bricks; thus was it done daily.
28 And behold these ascended and others descended the whole day; and if a brick should fall from their hands and get broken, they would all weep over it, and if a man fell and died, none of them would look at him.

29 And the Lord knew their thoughts, and it came to pass when they were building they cast the arrows toward the heavens, and all the arrows fell upon them filled with blood, and when they saw them they said to each other, Surely we have slain all those that are in heaven.
30 For this was from the Lord in order to cause them to err, and in order; to destroy them from off the face of the ground.
31 And they built the tower and the city, and they did this thing daily until many days and years were elapsed.

32 And God said to the seventy angels who stood foremost before him, to those who were near to him, saying, Come let us descend and confuse their tongues, that one man shall not understand the language of his neighbor, and they did so unto them.
33 And from that day following, they forgot each man his neighbor's tongue, and they could not understand to speak in one tongue, and when the builder took from the hands of his neighbor lime or stone which he did not order, the builder would cast it away and throw it upon his neighbor, that he would die.
34 And they did so many days, and they killed many of them in this manner.

35 And the Lord smote the three divisions that were there, and he punished them according to their works and designs; those who said, We will ascend to heaven and serve our gods, became like apes and elephants; and those who said, We will smite the heaven with arrows, the Lord killed them, one man through the hand of his neighbor; and the third division of those who said, We will ascend to heaven and fight against him, the Lord scattered them throughout the earth.

36 And those who were left amongst them, when they knew and understood the evil which was coming upon them, they forsook the building, and they also became scattered upon the face of the whole earth.
37 And they ceased building the city and the tower; therefore he called that place Babel, for there the Lord confounded the Language of the whole earth; behold it was at the east of the land of Shinar.

38 And as to the tower which the sons of men built, the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up one third part thereof, and a fire also descended from heaven and burned another third, and the other third is left to this day, and it is of that part which was aloft, and its circumference is three days' walk.
39 And many of the sons of men died in that tower, a people without number."

'Aloft' means "up in or into the air; overhead." That is probably the City of Enoch Joseph Smith was really talking about, because as I have pointed out before, the Masons love the linage of Cain. Tubal Cain is one of the passwords for the 3rd degree in Blue Lodge. Tubal Cain was a son of the first polygamist in the Bible. The Masons have a library of texts about Cain's descendants, just as the Bible is a record of Seth's descendants. I believe the PoGP came from these texts, not a Egyptian papyri he purchased from a traveling salesman. That is why Master Masons like Manly P. Hall, were able to write "prophetic" books about America:

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/soci ... merica.htm
Note the table of contents, and you can see where Joseph probably got the prophesies re: secret combinations to be the downfall of America in Book of Ether from this same source material.

So what does this have to do with polygamy? It shows who was the first practitioner was. The next one in the Biblical record, was Abraham. But it was Sarah's idea to give him her Egyptian maid to wife (who according to some apocryphal sources, was actually the Pharoah's daughter, who was given to her as a recompense for him erroneously taking her to be his wife).

The next example was Jacob, who was deceived by his father in law. Then God made codified laws about polygamy, which He gave to Moses. These were the laws governing inheritance, Levirite marriages, raising up seed to one's deceased brother, and this even predated Moses, as this example was illustrated with the sons of Judah and his daughter in law, Tamar. It was also in the law for kings not to multiply wives, horses, or gold. Which noncompliance was the cause of much strife in David's household, and the downfall of Solomon, to the splitting of the Kingdom.

But the point is, we are all supposed to be married to God. It was told to the children of Israel during the Exodus. And again, by prophets like Isaiah 54:5, "For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called."

And reaffirmed in the NT.
Ephesians 5:
23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and He is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it;
26 That He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

Eternal marriage is not a flesh thing, at least for those who are reborn Spiritually. In the flesh, polygamy produces strife. Jesus Christ is everyone's perfect husband, for we are the products of His husbandry, He is the vine, we are the branches.

John 3:
5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

God has given mankind grace. That is why He works with imperfect men, those that humble themselves before Him. He rejects those that wish to exalt themselves by their own works. The seeking of exaltation like Lucifer did in Isaiah 14, is what caused the war in heaven in the first place. That is why the thief on the cross received grace to enter paradise with Christ, because he was humble, and sought after Christ's righteousness as his Atonement rather than relying on his own "filthy rags."

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

Because procreation is a biological imperative and the desires innate in us to fulfill that imperative lead to the same pathologies that are driving other biological necessities like eating/overeating.

Polygamy is nearly always the result of the adulterous pathology at work with a attempt to build a formal familial structure around it.

There are times when eating an excess is necessary. Almost always not. The are times when the Lord commands Polygamy, almost always not.

Author Matt Whitney writes:

Interestingly, you see polygamous patterns in cults that range from those that mimic much of Christianity to those that have drifted far from it. Early leaders in the Latter Day Saints practiced it>4 and even venerated it5. The modern horrors of Warren Jeffs’ Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) were headline news only a few years ago. David Koresh and the Branch Davidians (of Waco massacre fame), Jim Jones (of Jonestown massacre fame), and Charles Manson (of, well, Charles Manson fame) were all cult leaders who either practiced polygamy or practiced partner sharing extensively and abusively.

Here's the full article: https://gospel.vision/why-do-so-many-cu ... -polygamy/

I like your logic. I'm just not sure that this metaphorical comparison isn't a stretch. I get the biological angle for both, but eating seems so necessary. Polygamy. Not so much.

[FrankOne]

Women have the same predispostions to pride and greed- it just manifests differently.

exactly. With men, it is overt and easily visible. With women, it is subtle and well worked to remain hidden. Like using makeup.

Some say that if women had been ruling the world, it would be peace love dove. I would disagree. There would be nothing left of earth because nukes would have melted everything down by now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think any less of women than men, but men are not women, and women are not men. Each has their strengths and weaknesses and to confuse the two is folly.

[FrankOne]

Men are not inherently predators of women.

But they are inherently more predatory than women. Again, back to the OP, men are the instigators of polygamy, not women. Polygamy is a predatory behavior. Some people don't like me saying that, but the historical examples are there for all to see the fruits.

just a bit of trivia.

Centennial Park plygs practice polygamy differently.

1- The single woman must first express interest in a man by notifying the bishop.
2- The man is notified by the bishop of the interest and the man makes a choice as to whether to begin formal courting which is a period of 'getting to know each other'. If he's not interested, the process stops.
3-Courting proceeds if the man is interested and there are some rules to this which keeps it at 'arms length'.
4- If the courting goes well, it proceeds to marriage.

Men are not to ever initiate a relationship.

Of course, these rules are broken at times, especially when a young woman and man find each other attractive, etc and start an unapproved relationship, but it ends up being approved as they talk to their bishop at some point.

This seems to be a decently functional model.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Just the fact that so many men are defending this practice should be… significant. I’ll leave it at that.

BTW, any “model” ^^^ without the consent of the Lord, is an abomination.

[John Tavner]

Just the fact that so many men are defending this practice should be… significant. I’ll leave it at that.

BTW, any “model” ^^^ without the consent of the Lord, is an abomination.

To be clear, I'm not defending polygamy.

[FrankOne]

Men are not inherently predators of women.

But they are inherently more predatory than women. Again, back to the OP, men are the instigators of polygamy, not women. Polygamy is a predatory behavior. Some people don't like me saying that, but the historical examples are there for all to see the fruits.

I decided to reply again to this post in order to not mix the subject.

I typically am aligned with most of your posts, but on this subject , we do see things quite differently. You have made broad statements in your post above which are not really accurate.

"polygamy is a predatory behavior" -

Since I live by a few different groups of plygs (local term), and have associated with them for several decades, I have observed their practices. Some of these are not affiliated with any organized church and some are. All of the women that get involved with polygamy are doing it voluntarily albeit many of them do it out of what they perceive as religious duty because they firmly believe that "the principle" will bring them a higher degree of salvation. The past practices of Jeffs et al with young girls has stopped (as far as i am aware).

I personally do not believe that the doctrine of these plyg churches is true.

Then there are those polygamists that have simply chosen to be married. There are many women out there that actually desire polygamy, and this cannot be argued because it is absolutely true. This fact does invalidate the claim that "polygamy is a predatory behavior". I've seen these types of relationships that occur simply out of choice by all parties and some of them work very well, and others crash and burn. Polygamy is a very very difficult endeavor even if practiced by consenting adults. Monogamy is learning institution (101) and polygamy is learning institution (502).

To choose a side and then fight for it, using scripture is merely a defense for a personal preference, hence, the scripture and history bashing that occurs here on this subject. Nobody proving the other wrong nor proving they are right.

I am all for letting men and women engage in polygamy because I have seen it work and do well. Those that crash and burn also had the experience they needed. With divorce rates in monogamy being some 70% within 10 yrs, i hardly think that monogamy is any different today than polygamy. Selfishness and irresponsible behavior rules the world.

[ransomme]

What on earth are you talking about…

“Natural man” is talking about the nature of MANkind. Or would you rather me use “humankind” or “peoplekind”?

As for “history”, it comes from the Greek word “historia”.

Come on mate you’re better than this.

I think what I said was completely lost on you. Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say it was one or the other. READ people, READ.

Is it fair to say that men are more prone to pride and greed? And... that it is far more likely for them to go to war or commit other heinous acts due to their very nature? There's a reason for that. The very fact that women "labor" to bring children into this world means that have far more connection to their children than men do. They are far less prone (less disposed) to do things that would cause harm to their children. Those things for which you suffer the most become the most valuable.

Men and women are not the same. Are we all fallen? Yes, but read what I said before coming to such a hasty conclusion.

Hmm is it men or women that get abortions to murder their children?

I think you are not using a wide enough lens on this one.

Women very much have egos, and pride. Perhaps women's corruption expresses differently, but it is just as corrupt.

After all the whore of Babylon is a she, and very much corrupts.

[FrankOne]

Just the fact that so many men are defending this practice should be… significant. I’ll leave it at that.

BTW, any “model” ^^^ without the consent of the Lord, is an abomination.

Please keep in mind that I'm not defending polygamy, I am just posing the other side as objectively as I can.

As an example, those in Centennial Park receive as much spiritual confirmation as anyone does. No doubt that they believe their inspiration is from God and that their polygamous marriages are blessed by him. Do we not all err in thinking that our inspiration is correct because we are "in the right?" Yet, there are literally a few billion people out there praying to God and all getting different guidance. Are they all in error and somehow.... 'we' are 'right?' It's kind of comical, isn't it ?....that somehow we are the special ones and billions are wrong? Are we sure that those in Centennial Park are wrong? How do we 'know' that?

Again, I personally do not believe their doctrine, but I can't say that I know they are in the wrong.

Just food for thought.

edited to change millions to billions.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Men are not inherently predators of women.

But they are inherently more predatory than women. Again, back to the OP, men are the instigators of polygamy, not women. Polygamy is a predatory behavior. Some people don't like me saying that, but the historical examples are there for all to see the fruits.

I decided to reply again to this post in order to not mix the subject.

I typically am aligned with most of your posts, but on this subject , we do see things quite differently. You have made broad statements in your post above which are not really accurate.

"polygamy is a predatory behavior" -

Since I live by a few different groups of plygs (local term), and have associated with them for several decades, I have observed their practices. Some of these are not affiliated with any organized church and some are. All of the women that get involved with polygamy are doing it voluntarily albeit many of them do it out of what they perceive as religious duty because they firmly believe that "the principle" will bring them a higher degree of salvation. The past practices of Jeffs et al with young girls has stopped (as far as i am aware).

I personally do not believe that the doctrine of these plyg churches is true.

Then there are those polygamists that have simply chosen to be married. There are many women out there that actually desire polygamy, and this cannot be argued because it is absolutely true. This fact does invalidate the claim that "polygamy is a predatory behavior". I've seen these types of relationships that occur simply out of choice by all parties and some of them work very well, and others crash and burn. Polygamy is a very very difficult endeavor even if practiced by consenting adults. Monogamy is learning institution (101) and polygamy is learning institution (502).

To choose a side and then fight for it, using scripture is merely a defense for a personal preference, hence, the scripture and history bashing that occurs here on this subject. Nobody proving the other wrong nor proving they are right.

I am all for letting men and women engage in polygamy because I have seen it work and do well. Those that crash and burn also had the experience they needed. With divorce rates in monogamy being some 70% within 10 yrs, i hardly think that monogamy is any different today than polygamy. Selfishness and irresponsible behavior rules the world.

In my mind, Jacob 2 couldn’t be more clear. Simply having a desire to be a polygamist wife does not justify the actions of a woman to want to engage in such a relationship. And yes, for me, engaging in such a relationship is often a predatory behavior, driven by carnal desires, regardless of how large or small that desire is. In the end, if this practice becomes common place among a people, it will have devastating consequences. A community cannot find balance when a large population of people live such a practice.

[Reluctant Watchman]

What on earth are you talking about…

“Natural man” is talking about the nature of MANkind. Or would you rather me use “humankind” or “peoplekind”?

As for “history”, it comes from the Greek word “historia”.

Come on mate you’re better than this.

I think what I said was completely lost on you. Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say it was one or the other. READ people, READ.

Is it fair to say that men are more prone to pride and greed? And... that it is far more likely for them to go to war or commit other heinous acts due to their very nature? There's a reason for that. The very fact that women "labor" to bring children into this world means that have far more connection to their children than men do. They are far less prone (less disposed) to do things that would cause harm to their children. Those things for which you suffer the most become the most valuable.

Men and women are not the same. Are we all fallen? Yes, but read what I said before coming to such a hasty conclusion.

Hmm is it men or women that get abortions to murder their children?

I think you are not using a wide enough lens on this one.

Women very much have egos, and pride. Perhaps women's corruption expresses differently, but it is just as corrupt.

After all the whore of Babylon is a she, and very much corrupts.

I think you are also using too narrow of a lens. Is it men or women who are the ones demanding an abortion happen? As I’ve repeatedly stated, YES, you can always find a woman who does all of the same sinful behaviors as men. But, what I don’t think can be argued is that women, generally, have a more kind and softer nature. They are often more caring and nurturing. It’s just the facts of life. Men and women are hardwired differently. And, not to beat a dead horse, this idea is not universal among all women. There, I don’t think I need to chase the rabbit anymore.

[ransomme]

Men are not inherently predators of women.

But they are inherently more predatory than women. Again, back to the OP, men are the instigators of polygamy, not women. Polygamy is a predatory behavior. Some people don't like me saying that, but the historical examples are there for all to see the fruits.

I decided to reply again to this post in order to not mix the subject.

I typically am aligned with most of your posts, but on this subject , we do see things quite differently. You have made broad statements in your post above which are not really accurate.

"polygamy is a predatory behavior" -

Since I live by a few different groups of plygs (local term), and have associated with them for several decades, I have observed their practices. Some of these are not affiliated with any organized church and some are. All of the women that get involved with polygamy are doing it voluntarily albeit many of them do it out of what they perceive as religious duty because they firmly believe that "the principle" will bring them a higher degree of salvation. The past practices of Jeffs et al with young girls has stopped (as far as i am aware).

I personally do not believe that the doctrine of these plyg churches is true.

Then there are those polygamists that have simply chosen to be married. There are many women out there that actually desire polygamy, and this cannot be argued because it is absolutely true. This fact does invalidate the claim that "polygamy is a predatory behavior". I've seen these types of relationships that occur simply out of choice by all parties and some of them work very well, and others crash and burn. Polygamy is a very very difficult endeavor even if practiced by consenting adults. Monogamy is learning institution (101) and polygamy is learning institution (502).

To choose a side and then fight for it, using scripture is merely a defense for a personal preference, hence, the scripture and history bashing that occurs here on this subject. Nobody proving the other wrong nor proving they are right.

I am all for letting men and women engage in polygamy because I have seen it work and do well. Those that crash and burn also had the experience they needed. With divorce rates in monogamy being some 70% within 10 yrs, i hardly think that monogamy is any different today than polygamy. Selfishness and irresponsible behavior rules the world.

I too have seen all sorts of holy and unholy lifestyle choices both work and not work.

Also that is a fallacious argument above in red.

It's fine for consenting adults to engage in polygamy or buggery or prostitution, but that's a far cry from being a holy practice.

[ransomme]

I think what I said was completely lost on you. Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say it was one or the other. READ people, READ.

Is it fair to say that men are more prone to pride and greed? And... that it is far more likely for them to go to war or commit other heinous acts due to their very nature? There's a reason for that. The very fact that women "labor" to bring children into this world means that have far more connection to their children than men do. They are far less prone (less disposed) to do things that would cause harm to their children. Those things for which you suffer the most become the most valuable.

Men and women are not the same. Are we all fallen? Yes, but read what I said before coming to such a hasty conclusion.

Hmm is it men or women that get abortions to murder their children?

I think you are not using a wide enough lens on this one.

Women very much have egos, and pride. Perhaps women's corruption expresses differently, but it is just as corrupt.

After all the whore of Babylon is a she, and very much corrupts.

I think you are also using too narrow of a lens. Is it men or women who are the ones demanding an abortion happen? As I’ve repeatedly stated, YES, you can always find a woman who does all of the same sinful behaviors as men. But, what I don’t think can be argued is that women, generally, have a more kind and softer nature. They are often more caring and nurturing. It’s just the facts of life. Men and women are hardwired differently. And, not to beat a dead horse, this idea is not universal among all women. There, I don’t think I need to chase the rabbit anymore.

You are believing in fairy tales... Women are just sugar and spice and everything nice.


I've also heard that women don't fart. Is that true too?

Since the garden women have manipulated men into sin and transgression.

If you want to put on blinders and underestimate women you are free to do so. But men and women have the same capacity to be good or evil.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Hmm is it men or women that get abortions to murder their children?

I think you are not using a wide enough lens on this one.

Women very much have egos, and pride. Perhaps women's corruption expresses differently, but it is just as corrupt.

After all the whore of Babylon is a she, and very much corrupts.

I think you are also using too narrow of a lens. Is it men or women who are the ones demanding an abortion happen? As I’ve repeatedly stated, YES, you can always find a woman who does all of the same sinful behaviors as men. But, what I don’t think can be argued is that women, generally, have a more kind and softer nature. They are often more caring and nurturing. It’s just the facts of life. Men and women are hardwired differently. And, not to beat a dead horse, this idea is not universal among all women. There, I don’t think I need to chase the rabbit anymore.

You are believing in fairy tales... Women are just sugar and spice and everything nice.


I've also heard that women don't fart. Is that true too?

Since the garden women have manipulated men into sin and transgression.

If you want to put on blinders and underestimate women you are free to do so. But men and women have the same capacity to be good or evil.

I think you are misled as to what occurred in the garden. Maybe that’s where much of this stems from. Eve played a far greater role than I think any of us can imagine. She wasn’t dumb and she didn’t manipulate Adam.