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The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: September 30th, 2023, 3:30 pm
by Luke
Not much commentary is needed from me on this - the quotations speak for themselves. First of all, let’s see what the Church editorials had to say at the time:
  • “Passing this by, with the simple comment that such low reflections indicate the sort of person who cast them, we reproduce some of the closing remarks of the Commissioner as reported in the Globe Democrat:
    ‘It has been shrewdly suggested “to President Woodruff,” concluded Commissioner Robertson, ‘that it would be exceedingly profitable for him to have another revelation, declaring that the doctrine of polygamy should be no longer adhered to by the Saints. Such a revelation would greatly assist his case and put him in the light of one willing to abide by the law that seeks the extinction of the horrid crime of which he is the chief apologist. But no revelation has as yet been forthcoming . . .’
    The suggestion which the Commissioner thinks is ‘shrewd’ is neither original nor sensible. It has been offered many times for several years. It is an evidence of the thoughtless and flippant manner in which anti-‘Mormons’ attempt to regulate the creed of the Latter-day Saints. A quotation here from the New Testament ought not to be considered out of place, especially by persons who profess respect for Christianity. It is this:
    ‘For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.’
    Revelation, whether it relates to the past, present or future, is not at the command of men. If Col. Robertson knows of any means whereby the Almighty can be compelled to reveal something that will suit him and other persons who make this demand, we would like him to use them without delay. Disbelievers have the right to reject anything purporting to be revelation that does not appeal to their reason or their faith. But they have not the right to expect a revelation to order nor to find fault because such an absurdity is not forthcoming . . .
    When President Woodruff receives anything from a Divine source for the Church over which he presides, he will be sure to deliver the message. And there is no power on earth that can compel him to make a counterfeit, or pretend to anything which to him is not as genuine as the pure light of heaven.” (“A Utah Commissioner’s Perversions”, Deseret Evening News vol. 23 no. 5 <1 October 1890> page 2)
  • “I have read what has been said pro and con of late touching this topic and ask permission to say something about it as a disinterested party.
    The controversy has grown out of President Woodruff’s recent ‘Manifesto,’ and the assumption of his critics is that he should have issued instead a ‘revelation.’ That is, the anti-Mormon writers and talkers insist that the declaration should have come from God instead of from Mr. Woodruff. Let us see where this leads.
    If God can be dictated to and compelled to furnish revelations to suit the requirements of any persons who desire to back their schemes with divine authority, he ceases to be God and becomes the tool, so to speak of designing men. If, now, these men (who insist that President Woodruff should have demanded a revelation instead of issuing his own manifesto) are honest in their position, they either have a most degrading conception of God, or they do not believe in God. . . . But should President Woodruff’s critics insist that they do believe in God, in the only true God, as their claim has been so long, then they must concede that ‘revelation’ can only come, not when man wills, but when and how God wills.
    Such being the case, they must admit, if they are honest in their claims, that in the absence of revelation, President Woodruff’s manifesto is all that they have any right to ask.” — Charles Ellis (“Concerning Revelation. A Few Pertinent Thoughts From an Able Pen”, Deseret Evening News, 4 October 1890, page 1)
  • “The Tribune is in a grotesque and dreary muddle about the manifesto. It has been declaring for days that the official declaration of President WOODRUFF was simply the opinion of one man, albeit that man was the head of the church, and therefore had no particular significance. It declared that unless the assembled people of the church should formally ratify that declaration, it would take no stock in it. To its infinite chagrin and rage, the assembled people did that very thing, and now it is at a loss what to say next. It declared first that inasmuch as the manifesto was not given by the president as a revelation to the church, it was of no avail and the people would not be guided by it. But the people did accept it, and the disappointed plotter is biting his fingers in vexation thereat.
    However, the disgruntled sheet must do something, and it now says that the scenes of Nauvoo will have to be repeated against the Mormons, because, forsooth, it is pleased to allege that the Mormons have given their consciences to the priests. The proof of this final crime of which the Mormons are said to be guilty is that they do not vote Liberals into office—do not vote for men who are trying to disfranchise them!
    Then the sheet pretends the declaration is a revelation, and proceeds to jest about it on that ground; though it declared two days ago that the declaration was not a revelation; and although no one to day has heard any one except the lying sheet say it was a revelation. Then it proceeds to discourse on dreams and visions, led by President WOODRUFF’S reminiscence that he had seen JOSEPH SMITH in a vision.
    By mixing in with the declaration this account of a vision, the sheet manages to insinuate that the manifesto was a revelation, and thence proceeds to ridicule the Mormons for believing in revelation, the final conclusion being that the Mormons ought to be driven from Utah.” — Heber J. Grant (Salt Lake Herald, 9 October 1890, pg. 4)
Not a single one of these said that it was a revelation, but on the contrary, all of them explicitly deny it being a revelation. All the Church leaders at the time knew this:
  • “Brother Grant, having had a previous conversation with President Smith, asked him if he was now satisfied with regard to the manifesto being a revelation from God. President Smith answered emphatically no. He then went on to explain how he did regard the manifesto. He believed that President Woodruff was inspired to write the manifesto in consequence of the situation in which we were placed, and that because of the circumstances in which we were placed before the government, the Lord sanctioned it. But he did not believe it to be an emphatic revelation from God abolishing plural marriage. President Cannon, referring the remarks of President Smith, said he regarded President Smith’s understanding upon this matter to be his; that he himself did not regard the manifesto as a revelation abolishing polygamy, for the reason that that was an eternal principle, and could not be abolished by anybody . . .” (First Presidency Office Journal, 20 August 1891, CHL)
  • “I do not believe the Manifesto was a revelation from God but was formulated by Prest. Woodruff and endorsed by his Councilors and the Twelve Apostles for expediency to meet the present situation of affairs in the Nation or those against the Church.” — Marriner W. Merrill (Marriner W. Merrill Journal, 20 August 1891, CHL)
So why did they issue the Manifesto? As stated in the above two quotations, it was a political trick, which was done to “beat the devil at his own game”:
  • “The Salt Lake Tribune of January 16, 1906, exposed the plot behind the Manifesto. The headlines read: ‘Manifesto Only Trick to Beat Devil at Own Game.’ The political schemers of the Church decided on a political Manifesto with the Federal Government to ‘beat them at their own game.’ They conceived the idea that if they made the polygamy concession with the Government, they would then obtain statehood. As a state they would introduce a law which would provide protection for those who lived plural marriage. They gained their statehood and finally introduced a bill which would allow a religious practice of plural marriage in the State.” — Ogden Kraut (Compromise and Concession page 159) [To prove this, for example: “George Q Cannon introduced the method of back handed polygamy” — Carlos Ashby Badger (Carlos Ashby Badger Journal, 31 October 1904, CHL)]
Some further quotations on this point:
  • “Brother Wolfe, don’t you know that the Manifesto is only a trick to beat the devil at his own game?” — John Henry Smith (R. C. Newson, Is the Manifesto a Revelation? <1956> page 5)
  • “Brother Penrose told me once in the city of Mexico, that he had written the manifesto, and it was gotten up so that it did not mean anything and President Smith had told me the same” — Matthias F. Cowley (Minutes of a Meeting of the Quorum of the Twelve, 10 May 1911, in Fred C. Collier, “The Trials of Apostle John W. Taylor and Matthias F. Cowley”, Doctrine of the Priesthood vol. 4 no. 1 <January 1987> page 27)
  • “On Monday morning, the 25th [May 1908], our conference priesthood meeting was held, which lasted four hours and a half. After the preliminary exercises, President Charles W. Penrose asked if any of the brethren had any questions on their minds, and if so, to present them now before he delivered his message to us.
    Up went my hand.
    ‘Alright,’ he said.
    ‘President Penrose,’ I said, ‘I have heard much discussion on the principle of Plural Marriage, some saying that it is withdrawn from the earth and that the Manifesto was a revelation from God. Dear President, what about this case?’ Then I related to him the testimony of the Sister, which is written above, and then I asked him, ‘Why should she receive this testimony if God has withdrawn that principle from the earth, and the Manifesto is a true revelation from God?’
    President Penrose then rose to his feet, scratched the side of his head with his right hand for a moment or so, then stretched out his right hand toward us and said: ‘Brethren, I will answer that question, if you will keep it under your hats. I, Charles W. Penrose, wrote the Manifesto with the assistance of Frank J. Cannon and John White. It’s no revelation from God, for I wrote it. Wilford Woodruff signed it to beat the Devil at his own game. Brethren, how can God withdraw an everlasting Principle from the earth? He has not, and can not, and I testify to you as a servant of God that this is true.’” — Thomas J. Rosser (Thomas J. Rosser letter to Robert C. Newson, 4 August 1956, in Kenneth W. Godfrey, “The Coming of the Manifesto”, Dialogue vol. 5 no. 3 <1970> page 20)
  • “I was in the British mission from 1911 to 1914. C. W. Penrose was President of the British Mission prior to my arrival there and he left just before I arrived in the mission field.
    It was generally understood among the saints and the Elders of the mission, and repeatedly discussed, in my presence and was fully understood that C. W. Penrose stated at a certain meeting of the Elders: ‘That be wrote the manifesto with the assistance of Frank J. Cannon and John White and it was no revelation from God, for I wrote it, and Wilford Woodruff signed it to beat the devil at his own game.’” (Truth vol. 19 no. 3 <August 1953> page 94)
And the fact that the leaders of the Church continued to perpetuate Plural Marriage for thirty years after the Manifesto, is sufficient evidence in and of itself, to prove that the Manifesto was not a revelation.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: September 30th, 2023, 5:48 pm
by Telavian
This doesn't mean much. I agree that it wasn't a revelation from God. However I also think starting polygamy wasn't a revelation from God.
This is the same thing as giving black people the Priesthood wasn't a revelation from God, because they never should have been denied in the first place.
Allowing children of LGBTQ couples to be baptized wasn't a revelation from God, as the church claimed, because denying them wasn't a revelation from God.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: September 30th, 2023, 8:53 pm
by FrankOne
excellent documentation which paints the contemporaneous picture with accuracy rather than the ever changing stories/fabrications which were created afterwards and now cited as "fact" .

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 12:00 am
by Being There
as I've posted before.

The Manifesto

The Manifesto of 1890 to end plural marriage
was totally man made.
Church leaders were being persecuted by the legislature for following their faith.
They feared man more than God. Hence The Manifesto.
There is much evidence that marriages were performed by the
church even after the Manifesto had been issued.
WHY ? If it really was a revelation.
In fact, prior to the Manifesto, the attorney prosecuting Elder Lorenzo Snow
for polygamy “predicted that if Snow and others were found guilty
and sent to prison church leaders would find it convenient
to have a revelation setting aside the commandment on polygamy.

The Polygamy Story: Fiction and Fact
by J. Max Anderson
http://www.shields-research.org/Books/P ... ry-c09.htm

(in part)
THE WOODRUFF MANIFESTO

President Taylor said that the time would come when many of the Saints would apostatize because of this principle. He said, "one-half of this people will apostatize over the principle for which we are now in hiding, yea, and possibly one-half of the other half" (rising off the floor while making the statement). He also said the day will come when a document similar to that (Manifesto) then under consideration would be adopted by the Church, following which "apostasy and whoredom would be rampant in the Church."

The issuance of the Manifesto came in response to the demands of the people; President Woodruff signed it under a permissive grant. That he did not subscribe to it in spirit was well known by his intimates at the time. He did what he said he "felt inspired" to do; he doubtless did the best he knew how under the circumstances. But all the childish babble and prattle about the Manifesto being a revelation from God and putting an end to the practice of the patriarchal order of marriage [polygamy] is pure buncombe.

Joseph Musser wrote
My God! what have I done," President Woodruff is reported to have said, after placing his signature to the Manifesto. And one of his counselors [Joseph F. Smith] answered, "You have signed a covenant with death and an agreement with hell, that's what you have done.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"And your covenant with death" - (the manifesto) man made
"shall be disannulled"
ISAIAH Chapter 28 is talking about us, the Mormons,
the "drunkards of Ephraim."

Isaiah 28
18"And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it."
15 "Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves"

Isaiah 24:5
5 "The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants:
they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances,
set at nought the ancient covenant."

Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith declared that;
“It is the L. D. Saints who have transgressed the laws, change the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant.”
Joseph Fielding Smith (Deseret News, Church Section, Oct. 17, 1936)

explanation: Avraham Gileadi
"Causing these curses is the wickedness of Jehovah’s people, who have altered his “ordinances” or “ritual” and perverted his “laws” or “doctrine” , thereby violating Jehovah’s covenant and rendering it void. Jehovah’s servant, who personifies Jehovah’s covenant (Isaiah 42:6; 49:8), they likewise set at nought (Isaiah 49:7; 50:5-11; 52:14)."

------------------------------
J.D.25:355-6
Discourse by President John Taylor, delivered at Ogden, Sunday, October 19th, 1884.
Reported by John Irvine.

"I was asked if certain ordinances could be performed in different places. I told them, yes, under certain circumstances. “Where,” I was asked—“Anywhere besides in temples?” Yes. Anywhere besides the Endowment House? Yes. “Where, in some other house?” In another house or out of doors, as the circumstances might be. Why did I say that?"
"Thus under such circumstances we perceive that our operations elsewhere will be all correct; it makes no difference. It is the authority of the Priesthood, not the place, that validates and sanctifies the ordinance. I was asked if people could be sealed outside. Yes. I could have told them I was sealed outside, and lots of others."

Many plural marriages were performed in Mexico and other places where there were no temples.
Wilford Woodroff discontinued plural marriage within the church, but set Anthony W. Ivins apart to continue to perform plural marriages in Mexico.


*** (there is a lot of information here for those interested)

https://books.google.com.mx/books?id=8X ... o.&f=false
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mormonfundamentalism.com/arc ... Musser.htm

http://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-c ... MF0039.pdf

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 1:40 am
by Robin Hood
I think it's pretty clear that the Manifesto was not a revelation, and that everyone understood that.
Personally, I think caving to the Federal government was a massive mistake. However, in many ways the second Manifesto was worse.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 8:16 am
by Mindfields
It was a ruse. What does it say about the church leaders honesty and integrity?

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 9:19 am
by Atrasado
I, for one, will leave judgment on this to God. I'm afraid that I, too, would have wanted the Manifesto. They went through hell trying to practice polygamy. There were abuses of it, but I think most participants were doing what they thought God wanted them to do. And it wasn't fun for either gender, at all.

It's just that the leaders knew that most of the Church members were tired of it and were losing steam fast. God could have defied the armies of the world without much effort, but would he do that for people whose hearts weren't in it? The leadership must have wondered, or maybe they knew that God wouldn't.

In the end, the Manifesto was just an acknowledgement that the saints weren't righteous enough to establish Zion because if they had been then no power on earth could have stopped them. We failed in Missouri, we failed in Illinois, we failed in Utah, and we are certainly failing now. That isn't to say that there haven't been many faithful people who have lived in the Church and will inherit celestial glory. It just means that the gospel, if it is lived fully and correctly, will produce a righteous nation and we see no such thing.

That is why the destructions will come upon the saints. Is this on the leaders' heads? Sure, to some degree. But it's also on the heads of the members because we have the gospel and we have never fully lived it. Eventually, we got the leaders we deserved, which is rather sad because they are horrible.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 9:26 am
by Luke
Atrasado wrote: October 1st, 2023, 9:19 am I, for one, will leave judgment on this to God. I'm afraid that I, too, would have wanted the Manifesto. They went through hell trying to practice polygamy. There were abuses of it, but I think most participants were doing what they thought God wanted them to do. And it wasn't fun for either gender, at all.

It's just that the leaders knew that most of the Church members were tired of it and were losing steam fast. God could have defied the armies of the world without much effort, but would he do that for people whose hearts weren't in it? The leadership must have wondered, or maybe they knew that God wouldn't.

In the end, the Manifesto was just an acknowledgement that the saints weren't righteous enough to establish Zion because if they had been them no power on earth could have stopped them. We failed in Missouri, we failed in Illinois, and we failed in Utah. That isn't to say that there haven't been many faithful people who have lived in the Church and will inherit celestial glory. It just means that the gospel, if it is lived fully and correctly, will produce a righteous nation and we see no such thing.

That is why the destructions will come upon the saints. Is this on the leaders' heads? Sure, to some degree. But it's also on the heads of the members because we have the gospel and didn't live it. We got the leaders we deserved, which is rather sad.
Yes, you nailed it. Letters had been sent to John Taylor from the mid-1880s from the members asking him to do away with Plural Marriage. The members were just as in the wrong as the leaders were.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 9:35 am
by Bjǫrnúlfr
Luke wrote: September 30th, 2023, 3:30 pm Not much commentary is needed from me on this - the quotations speak for themselves. First of all, let’s see what the Church editorials had to say at the time:
  • “Passing this by, with the simple comment that such low reflections indicate the sort of person who cast them, we reproduce some of the closing remarks of the Commissioner as reported in the Globe Democrat:
    ‘It has been shrewdly suggested “to President Woodruff,” concluded Commissioner Robertson, ‘that it would be exceedingly profitable for him to have another revelation, declaring that the doctrine of polygamy should be no longer adhered to by the Saints. Such a revelation would greatly assist his case and put him in the light of one willing to abide by the law that seeks the extinction of the horrid crime of which he is the chief apologist. But no revelation has as yet been forthcoming . . .’
    The suggestion which the Commissioner thinks is ‘shrewd’ is neither original nor sensible. It has been offered many times for several years. It is an evidence of the thoughtless and flippant manner in which anti-‘Mormons’ attempt to regulate the creed of the Latter-day Saints. A quotation here from the New Testament ought not to be considered out of place, especially by persons who profess respect for Christianity. It is this:
    ‘For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.’
    Revelation, whether it relates to the past, present or future, is not at the command of men. If Col. Robertson knows of any means whereby the Almighty can be compelled to reveal something that will suit him and other persons who make this demand, we would like him to use them without delay. Disbelievers have the right to reject anything purporting to be revelation that does not appeal to their reason or their faith. But they have not the right to expect a revelation to order nor to find fault because such an absurdity is not forthcoming . . .
    When President Woodruff receives anything from a Divine source for the Church over which he presides, he will be sure to deliver the message. And there is no power on earth that can compel him to make a counterfeit, or pretend to anything which to him is not as genuine as the pure light of heaven.” (“A Utah Commissioner’s Perversions”, Deseret Evening News vol. 23 no. 5 <1 October 1890> page 2)
  • “I have read what has been said pro and con of late touching this topic and ask permission to say something about it as a disinterested party.
    The controversy has grown out of President Woodruff’s recent ‘Manifesto,’ and the assumption of his critics is that he should have issued instead a ‘revelation.’ That is, the anti-Mormon writers and talkers insist that the declaration should have come from God instead of from Mr. Woodruff. Let us see where this leads.
    If God can be dictated to and compelled to furnish revelations to suit the requirements of any persons who desire to back their schemes with divine authority, he ceases to be God and becomes the tool, so to speak of designing men. If, now, these men (who insist that President Woodruff should have demanded a revelation instead of issuing his own manifesto) are honest in their position, they either have a most degrading conception of God, or they do not believe in God. . . . But should President Woodruff’s critics insist that they do believe in God, in the only true God, as their claim has been so long, then they must concede that ‘revelation’ can only come, not when man wills, but when and how God wills.
    Such being the case, they must admit, if they are honest in their claims, that in the absence of revelation, President Woodruff’s manifesto is all that they have any right to ask.” — Charles Ellis (“Concerning Revelation. A Few Pertinent Thoughts From an Able Pen”, Deseret Evening News, 4 October 1890, page 1)
  • “The Tribune is in a grotesque and dreary muddle about the manifesto. It has been declaring for days that the official declaration of President WOODRUFF was simply the opinion of one man, albeit that man was the head of the church, and therefore had no particular significance. It declared that unless the assembled people of the church should formally ratify that declaration, it would take no stock in it. To its infinite chagrin and rage, the assembled people did that very thing, and now it is at a loss what to say next. It declared first that inasmuch as the manifesto was not given by the president as a revelation to the church, it was of no avail and the people would not be guided by it. But the people did accept it, and the disappointed plotter is biting his fingers in vexation thereat.
    However, the disgruntled sheet must do something, and it now says that the scenes of Nauvoo will have to be repeated against the Mormons, because, forsooth, it is pleased to allege that the Mormons have given their consciences to the priests. The proof of this final crime of which the Mormons are said to be guilty is that they do not vote Liberals into office—do not vote for men who are trying to disfranchise them!
    Then the sheet pretends the declaration is a revelation, and proceeds to jest about it on that ground; though it declared two days ago that the declaration was not a revelation; and although no one to day has heard any one except the lying sheet say it was a revelation. Then it proceeds to discourse on dreams and visions, led by President WOODRUFF’S reminiscence that he had seen JOSEPH SMITH in a vision.
    By mixing in with the declaration this account of a vision, the sheet manages to insinuate that the manifesto was a revelation, and thence proceeds to ridicule the Mormons for believing in revelation, the final conclusion being that the Mormons ought to be driven from Utah.” — Heber J. Grant (Salt Lake Herald, 9 October 1890, pg. 4)
Not a single one of these said that it was a revelation, but on the contrary, all of them explicitly deny it being a revelation. All the Church leaders at the time knew this:
  • “Brother Grant, having had a previous conversation with President Smith, asked him if he was now satisfied with regard to the manifesto being a revelation from God. President Smith answered emphatically no. He then went on to explain how he did regard the manifesto. He believed that President Woodruff was inspired to write the manifesto in consequence of the situation in which we were placed, and that because of the circumstances in which we were placed before the government, the Lord sanctioned it. But he did not believe it to be an emphatic revelation from God abolishing plural marriage. President Cannon, referring the remarks of President Smith, said he regarded President Smith’s understanding upon this matter to be his; that he himself did not regard the manifesto as a revelation abolishing polygamy, for the reason that that was an eternal principle, and could not be abolished by anybody . . .” (First Presidency Office Journal, 20 August 1891, CHL)
  • “I do not believe the Manifesto was a revelation from God but was formulated by Prest. Woodruff and endorsed by his Councilors and the Twelve Apostles for expediency to meet the present situation of affairs in the Nation or those against the Church.” — Marriner W. Merrill (Marriner W. Merrill Journal, 20 August 1891, CHL)
So why did they issue the Manifesto? As stated in the above two quotations, it was a political trick, which was done to “beat the devil at his own game”:
  • “The Salt Lake Tribune of January 16, 1906, exposed the plot behind the Manifesto. The headlines read: ‘Manifesto Only Trick to Beat Devil at Own Game.’ The political schemers of the Church decided on a political Manifesto with the Federal Government to ‘beat them at their own game.’ They conceived the idea that if they made the polygamy concession with the Government, they would then obtain statehood. As a state they would introduce a law which would provide protection for those who lived plural marriage. They gained their statehood and finally introduced a bill which would allow a religious practice of plural marriage in the State.” — Ogden Kraut (Compromise and Concession page 159) [To prove this, for example: “George Q Cannon introduced the method of back handed polygamy” — Carlos Ashby Badger (Carlos Ashby Badger Journal, 31 October 1904, CHL)]
Some further quotations on this point:
  • “Brother Wolfe, don’t you know that the Manifesto is only a trick to beat the devil at his own game?” — John Henry Smith (R. C. Newson, Is the Manifesto a Revelation? <1956> page 5)
  • “Brother Penrose told me once in the city of Mexico, that he had written the manifesto, and it was gotten up so that it did not mean anything and President Smith had told me the same” — Matthias F. Cowley (Minutes of a Meeting of the Quorum of the Twelve, 10 May 1911, in Fred C. Collier, “The Trials of Apostle John W. Taylor and Matthias F. Cowley”, Doctrine of the Priesthood vol. 4 no. 1 <January 1987> page 27)
  • “On Monday morning, the 25th [May 1908], our conference priesthood meeting was held, which lasted four hours and a half. After the preliminary exercises, President Charles W. Penrose asked if any of the brethren had any questions on their minds, and if so, to present them now before he delivered his message to us.
    Up went my hand.
    ‘Alright,’ he said.
    ‘President Penrose,’ I said, ‘I have heard much discussion on the principle of Plural Marriage, some saying that it is withdrawn from the earth and that the Manifesto was a revelation from God. Dear President, what about this case?’ Then I related to him the testimony of the Sister, which is written above, and then I asked him, ‘Why should she receive this testimony if God has withdrawn that principle from the earth, and the Manifesto is a true revelation from God?’
    President Penrose then rose to his feet, scratched the side of his head with his right hand for a moment or so, then stretched out his right hand toward us and said: ‘Brethren, I will answer that question, if you will keep it under your hats. I, Charles W. Penrose, wrote the Manifesto with the assistance of Frank J. Cannon and John White. It’s no revelation from God, for I wrote it. Wilford Woodruff signed it to beat the Devil at his own game. Brethren, how can God withdraw an everlasting Principle from the earth? He has not, and can not, and I testify to you as a servant of God that this is true.’” — Thomas J. Rosser (Thomas J. Rosser letter to Robert C. Newson, 4 August 1956, in Kenneth W. Godfrey, “The Coming of the Manifesto”, Dialogue vol. 5 no. 3 <1970> page 20)
  • “I was in the British mission from 1911 to 1914. C. W. Penrose was President of the British Mission prior to my arrival there and he left just before I arrived in the mission field.
    It was generally understood among the saints and the Elders of the mission, and repeatedly discussed, in my presence and was fully understood that C. W. Penrose stated at a certain meeting of the Elders: ‘That be wrote the manifesto with the assistance of Frank J. Cannon and John White and it was no revelation from God, for I wrote it, and Wilford Woodruff signed it to beat the devil at his own game.’” (Truth vol. 19 no. 3 <August 1953> page 94)
And the fact that the leaders of the Church continued to perpetuate Plural Marriage for thirty years after the Manifesto, is sufficient evidence in and of itself, to prove that the Manifesto was not a revelation.
Thank you for putting this together.

It appears that even though the manifesto was not considered a revelation from God completely ending the practice of plural marriage, that the leaders considered issuing the manifesto to have been inspired by God.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 10:11 am
by Luke
Bjǫrnúlfr wrote: October 1st, 2023, 9:35 am
Luke wrote: September 30th, 2023, 3:30 pm Not much commentary is needed from me on this - the quotations speak for themselves. First of all, let’s see what the Church editorials had to say at the time:
  • “Passing this by, with the simple comment that such low reflections indicate the sort of person who cast them, we reproduce some of the closing remarks of the Commissioner as reported in the Globe Democrat:
    ‘It has been shrewdly suggested “to President Woodruff,” concluded Commissioner Robertson, ‘that it would be exceedingly profitable for him to have another revelation, declaring that the doctrine of polygamy should be no longer adhered to by the Saints. Such a revelation would greatly assist his case and put him in the light of one willing to abide by the law that seeks the extinction of the horrid crime of which he is the chief apologist. But no revelation has as yet been forthcoming . . .’
    The suggestion which the Commissioner thinks is ‘shrewd’ is neither original nor sensible. It has been offered many times for several years. It is an evidence of the thoughtless and flippant manner in which anti-‘Mormons’ attempt to regulate the creed of the Latter-day Saints. A quotation here from the New Testament ought not to be considered out of place, especially by persons who profess respect for Christianity. It is this:
    ‘For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.’
    Revelation, whether it relates to the past, present or future, is not at the command of men. If Col. Robertson knows of any means whereby the Almighty can be compelled to reveal something that will suit him and other persons who make this demand, we would like him to use them without delay. Disbelievers have the right to reject anything purporting to be revelation that does not appeal to their reason or their faith. But they have not the right to expect a revelation to order nor to find fault because such an absurdity is not forthcoming . . .
    When President Woodruff receives anything from a Divine source for the Church over which he presides, he will be sure to deliver the message. And there is no power on earth that can compel him to make a counterfeit, or pretend to anything which to him is not as genuine as the pure light of heaven.” (“A Utah Commissioner’s Perversions”, Deseret Evening News vol. 23 no. 5 <1 October 1890> page 2)
  • “I have read what has been said pro and con of late touching this topic and ask permission to say something about it as a disinterested party.
    The controversy has grown out of President Woodruff’s recent ‘Manifesto,’ and the assumption of his critics is that he should have issued instead a ‘revelation.’ That is, the anti-Mormon writers and talkers insist that the declaration should have come from God instead of from Mr. Woodruff. Let us see where this leads.
    If God can be dictated to and compelled to furnish revelations to suit the requirements of any persons who desire to back their schemes with divine authority, he ceases to be God and becomes the tool, so to speak of designing men. If, now, these men (who insist that President Woodruff should have demanded a revelation instead of issuing his own manifesto) are honest in their position, they either have a most degrading conception of God, or they do not believe in God. . . . But should President Woodruff’s critics insist that they do believe in God, in the only true God, as their claim has been so long, then they must concede that ‘revelation’ can only come, not when man wills, but when and how God wills.
    Such being the case, they must admit, if they are honest in their claims, that in the absence of revelation, President Woodruff’s manifesto is all that they have any right to ask.” — Charles Ellis (“Concerning Revelation. A Few Pertinent Thoughts From an Able Pen”, Deseret Evening News, 4 October 1890, page 1)
  • “The Tribune is in a grotesque and dreary muddle about the manifesto. It has been declaring for days that the official declaration of President WOODRUFF was simply the opinion of one man, albeit that man was the head of the church, and therefore had no particular significance. It declared that unless the assembled people of the church should formally ratify that declaration, it would take no stock in it. To its infinite chagrin and rage, the assembled people did that very thing, and now it is at a loss what to say next. It declared first that inasmuch as the manifesto was not given by the president as a revelation to the church, it was of no avail and the people would not be guided by it. But the people did accept it, and the disappointed plotter is biting his fingers in vexation thereat.
    However, the disgruntled sheet must do something, and it now says that the scenes of Nauvoo will have to be repeated against the Mormons, because, forsooth, it is pleased to allege that the Mormons have given their consciences to the priests. The proof of this final crime of which the Mormons are said to be guilty is that they do not vote Liberals into office—do not vote for men who are trying to disfranchise them!
    Then the sheet pretends the declaration is a revelation, and proceeds to jest about it on that ground; though it declared two days ago that the declaration was not a revelation; and although no one to day has heard any one except the lying sheet say it was a revelation. Then it proceeds to discourse on dreams and visions, led by President WOODRUFF’S reminiscence that he had seen JOSEPH SMITH in a vision.
    By mixing in with the declaration this account of a vision, the sheet manages to insinuate that the manifesto was a revelation, and thence proceeds to ridicule the Mormons for believing in revelation, the final conclusion being that the Mormons ought to be driven from Utah.” — Heber J. Grant (Salt Lake Herald, 9 October 1890, pg. 4)
Not a single one of these said that it was a revelation, but on the contrary, all of them explicitly deny it being a revelation. All the Church leaders at the time knew this:
  • “Brother Grant, having had a previous conversation with President Smith, asked him if he was now satisfied with regard to the manifesto being a revelation from God. President Smith answered emphatically no. He then went on to explain how he did regard the manifesto. He believed that President Woodruff was inspired to write the manifesto in consequence of the situation in which we were placed, and that because of the circumstances in which we were placed before the government, the Lord sanctioned it. But he did not believe it to be an emphatic revelation from God abolishing plural marriage. President Cannon, referring the remarks of President Smith, said he regarded President Smith’s understanding upon this matter to be his; that he himself did not regard the manifesto as a revelation abolishing polygamy, for the reason that that was an eternal principle, and could not be abolished by anybody . . .” (First Presidency Office Journal, 20 August 1891, CHL)
  • “I do not believe the Manifesto was a revelation from God but was formulated by Prest. Woodruff and endorsed by his Councilors and the Twelve Apostles for expediency to meet the present situation of affairs in the Nation or those against the Church.” — Marriner W. Merrill (Marriner W. Merrill Journal, 20 August 1891, CHL)
So why did they issue the Manifesto? As stated in the above two quotations, it was a political trick, which was done to “beat the devil at his own game”:
  • “The Salt Lake Tribune of January 16, 1906, exposed the plot behind the Manifesto. The headlines read: ‘Manifesto Only Trick to Beat Devil at Own Game.’ The political schemers of the Church decided on a political Manifesto with the Federal Government to ‘beat them at their own game.’ They conceived the idea that if they made the polygamy concession with the Government, they would then obtain statehood. As a state they would introduce a law which would provide protection for those who lived plural marriage. They gained their statehood and finally introduced a bill which would allow a religious practice of plural marriage in the State.” — Ogden Kraut (Compromise and Concession page 159) [To prove this, for example: “George Q Cannon introduced the method of back handed polygamy” — Carlos Ashby Badger (Carlos Ashby Badger Journal, 31 October 1904, CHL)]
Some further quotations on this point:
  • “Brother Wolfe, don’t you know that the Manifesto is only a trick to beat the devil at his own game?” — John Henry Smith (R. C. Newson, Is the Manifesto a Revelation? <1956> page 5)
  • “Brother Penrose told me once in the city of Mexico, that he had written the manifesto, and it was gotten up so that it did not mean anything and President Smith had told me the same” — Matthias F. Cowley (Minutes of a Meeting of the Quorum of the Twelve, 10 May 1911, in Fred C. Collier, “The Trials of Apostle John W. Taylor and Matthias F. Cowley”, Doctrine of the Priesthood vol. 4 no. 1 <January 1987> page 27)
  • “On Monday morning, the 25th [May 1908], our conference priesthood meeting was held, which lasted four hours and a half. After the preliminary exercises, President Charles W. Penrose asked if any of the brethren had any questions on their minds, and if so, to present them now before he delivered his message to us.
    Up went my hand.
    ‘Alright,’ he said.
    ‘President Penrose,’ I said, ‘I have heard much discussion on the principle of Plural Marriage, some saying that it is withdrawn from the earth and that the Manifesto was a revelation from God. Dear President, what about this case?’ Then I related to him the testimony of the Sister, which is written above, and then I asked him, ‘Why should she receive this testimony if God has withdrawn that principle from the earth, and the Manifesto is a true revelation from God?’
    President Penrose then rose to his feet, scratched the side of his head with his right hand for a moment or so, then stretched out his right hand toward us and said: ‘Brethren, I will answer that question, if you will keep it under your hats. I, Charles W. Penrose, wrote the Manifesto with the assistance of Frank J. Cannon and John White. It’s no revelation from God, for I wrote it. Wilford Woodruff signed it to beat the Devil at his own game. Brethren, how can God withdraw an everlasting Principle from the earth? He has not, and can not, and I testify to you as a servant of God that this is true.’” — Thomas J. Rosser (Thomas J. Rosser letter to Robert C. Newson, 4 August 1956, in Kenneth W. Godfrey, “The Coming of the Manifesto”, Dialogue vol. 5 no. 3 <1970> page 20)
  • “I was in the British mission from 1911 to 1914. C. W. Penrose was President of the British Mission prior to my arrival there and he left just before I arrived in the mission field.
    It was generally understood among the saints and the Elders of the mission, and repeatedly discussed, in my presence and was fully understood that C. W. Penrose stated at a certain meeting of the Elders: ‘That be wrote the manifesto with the assistance of Frank J. Cannon and John White and it was no revelation from God, for I wrote it, and Wilford Woodruff signed it to beat the devil at his own game.’” (Truth vol. 19 no. 3 <August 1953> page 94)
And the fact that the leaders of the Church continued to perpetuate Plural Marriage for thirty years after the Manifesto, is sufficient evidence in and of itself, to prove that the Manifesto was not a revelation.
Thank you for putting this together.

It appears that even though the manifesto was not considered a revelation from God completely ending the practice of plural marriage, that the leaders considered issuing the manifesto to have been inspired by God.
They didn’t think it was inspired in the sense that it was right. Because they completely violated what it said from the get go. They just felt that Woodruff was justified in issuing it to throw the feds off their back.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 10:33 am
by BringerOfJoy
A fake revelation ended by a two fake revelations. Perfect bookends.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 11:06 am
by Luke
BringerOfJoy wrote: October 1st, 2023, 10:33 am A fake revelation ended by a two fake revelations. Perfect bookends.
If that helps you sleep at night…

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 11:21 am
by SJR3t2
Good research, I just want to add the following.

Holy prophets of YHWH don't fear men.

JS only fought against polygamy
1835 D&C section 101, last edition while Joseph Smith was alive. The only major church that removed it was the LDS church. It states one man and one wife, to marry in public where everyone can see it, and that polygamy is a crime.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/marriage/

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 8:13 pm
by FrankOne
Luke wrote: October 1st, 2023, 9:26 am
Atrasado wrote: October 1st, 2023, 9:19 am I, for one, will leave judgment on this to God. I'm afraid that I, too, would have wanted the Manifesto. They went through hell trying to practice polygamy. There were abuses of it, but I think most participants were doing what they thought God wanted them to do. And it wasn't fun for either gender, at all.

It's just that the leaders knew that most of the Church members were tired of it and were losing steam fast. God could have defied the armies of the world without much effort, but would he do that for people whose hearts weren't in it? The leadership must have wondered, or maybe they knew that God wouldn't.

In the end, the Manifesto was just an acknowledgement that the saints weren't righteous enough to establish Zion because if they had been them no power on earth could have stopped them. We failed in Missouri, we failed in Illinois, and we failed in Utah. That isn't to say that there haven't been many faithful people who have lived in the Church and will inherit celestial glory. It just means that the gospel, if it is lived fully and correctly, will produce a righteous nation and we see no such thing.

That is why the destructions will come upon the saints. Is this on the leaders' heads? Sure, to some degree. But it's also on the heads of the members because we have the gospel and didn't live it. We got the leaders we deserved, which is rather sad.
Yes, you nailed it. Letters had been sent to John Taylor from the mid-1880s from the members asking him to do away with Plural Marriage. The members were just as in the wrong as the leaders were.
When i gave this subject much study some time ago, I really felt for Woodruff because about 9 yrs earlier, he had the lengthy revelation which included a warning from God that anyone that turned against polygamy was against God. (I don't have the revelation in front of me to quote).

so...Woodruff, seeing the imminent and pressing power of the U.S. govt against the church, no doubt prayed non-stop for God's guidance but....for some reason, he never received a confirmation to continue the course and to damn the torpedoes. So.. Woodruff used logic and it likely tore him in two. I can't speculate what would have happened if he had told the U.S. ...'no' and stood his ground. I'm sure that many would say that God would have intervened and saved the church from destruction, but....would he have? I certainly don't know. My personal take is out of the box , which is that everything that actually happens is God's will and within God's plan. It certainly was no surprise to God that Woodruff chose to abolish polygamy.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 8:23 pm
by Teancum1
Telavian wrote: September 30th, 2023, 5:48 pm This doesn't mean much. I agree that it wasn't a revelation from God. However I also think starting polygamy wasn't a revelation from God.
This is the same thing as giving black people the Priesthood wasn't a revelation from God, because they never should have been denied in the first place.
Allowing children of LGBTQ couples to be baptized wasn't a revelation from God, as the church claimed, because denying them wasn't a revelation from God.
Agreed. Another false “doctrine” came out of the issuance of the manifesto.

That a prophet cannot lead the church astray.

This damnable doctrine has done more damage to the members of church than that of polygamy. At least polygamy ended- finally - after multiple lies from the presidents of the church.

That a prophet cannot lead us astray has strengthened its grip on the church and will lead many to sorrow that they bought the lie. This doctrine will be with us until Jesus returns.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 1st, 2023, 8:29 pm
by Telavian
Teancum1 wrote: October 1st, 2023, 8:23 pm Agreed. Another false “doctrine” came out of the issuance of the manifesto.

That a prophet cannot lead the church astray.
Yes, that doctrine has made the people spiritually lazy.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 3rd, 2023, 3:28 am
by Luke
FrankOne wrote: October 1st, 2023, 8:13 pm
Luke wrote: October 1st, 2023, 9:26 am
Atrasado wrote: October 1st, 2023, 9:19 am I, for one, will leave judgment on this to God. I'm afraid that I, too, would have wanted the Manifesto. They went through hell trying to practice polygamy. There were abuses of it, but I think most participants were doing what they thought God wanted them to do. And it wasn't fun for either gender, at all.

It's just that the leaders knew that most of the Church members were tired of it and were losing steam fast. God could have defied the armies of the world without much effort, but would he do that for people whose hearts weren't in it? The leadership must have wondered, or maybe they knew that God wouldn't.

In the end, the Manifesto was just an acknowledgement that the saints weren't righteous enough to establish Zion because if they had been them no power on earth could have stopped them. We failed in Missouri, we failed in Illinois, and we failed in Utah. That isn't to say that there haven't been many faithful people who have lived in the Church and will inherit celestial glory. It just means that the gospel, if it is lived fully and correctly, will produce a righteous nation and we see no such thing.

That is why the destructions will come upon the saints. Is this on the leaders' heads? Sure, to some degree. But it's also on the heads of the members because we have the gospel and didn't live it. We got the leaders we deserved, which is rather sad.
Yes, you nailed it. Letters had been sent to John Taylor from the mid-1880s from the members asking him to do away with Plural Marriage. The members were just as in the wrong as the leaders were.
When i gave this subject much study some time ago, I really felt for Woodruff because about 9 yrs earlier, he had the lengthy revelation which included a warning from God that anyone that turned against polygamy was against God. (I don't have the revelation in front of me to quote).

so...Woodruff, seeing the imminent and pressing power of the U.S. govt against the church, no doubt prayed non-stop for God's guidance but....for some reason, he never received a confirmation to continue the course and to damn the torpedoes. So.. Woodruff used logic and it likely tore him in two. I can't speculate what would have happened if he had told the U.S. ...'no' and stood his ground. I'm sure that many would say that God would have intervened and saved the church from destruction, but....would he have? I certainly don't know. My personal take is out of the box , which is that everything that actually happens is God's will and within God's plan. It certainly was no surprise to God that Woodruff chose to abolish polygamy.
Woodruff’s reaction after signing the Manifesto:

“The time the Manifesto was signed, I was staying with my sister Mary Rundquist, who lived on a farm in Roy, Utah. I remember so vividly when the word came. My father and mother, and brother & sister Rundquist and his second wife Annie were in Charley and Mary’s home. Everything was so quiet. It seemed as though there was a feeling of some terrible happening taking place. I felt it in the home and even outside. In my young years (abt 9 years old) and not understanding the great significance of what had
happened, I felt the dreadful impact of it.
Some years later (abt 1925) I attended a meeting of the Daughters of Pioneers, held at the home of Mrs. Joseph J. Daynes on 5 East, who is a daughter of Pres. Wilford Woodruff; also another daughter Mrs. Beatty [not Beatty, but Beebe.*] was there. She spoke on the Manifesto. During her talk she said this:
‘The day father signed the manifesto, I was in the front room when he came home. I shall never forget his face. He moaned and said, ‘O God, what have I done?’ He immediately went up stairs to his room. He remained there for a whole week never speaking to any of us. When he came down to join the family he looked awful. The ravages of sickness could never have made him look worse. It was awful. (Signed)—Esther E. Morrison” [*correction by daughter of Esther.] (Esther E. Morrison Statement, in Lynn L. Bishop, The Great and Tragic Loss of Priesthood Keys in the Conflict over Celestial Plural Marriage <2007> pages 35-36)

“. . . Ira Millet called in the evening and we had a very interesting talk for an hour or so. He told me of having a talk with one of Wilford Woodruff’s sons who told him about his father weeping and lamenting the night after signing the manifesto, saying ‘My God what have I done?’” — Nathaniel Baldwin (Nathaniel Baldwin Diary, 9 April 1958)

“‘My God, what have I done?’ said Wilford Woodruff after signing the Manifesto. ‘You have entered into an agreement with death and hell!’ Joseph F. Smith [replied].” — Lorin C. Woolley (Items from the Book of Remembrance of Joseph W. Musser <21 June 1932> page 19)

“‘My God, what have I done?’ WW ‘You have entered into an agreement with death and hell!’ JFS at signing of manifesto.” — Lorin C. Woolley (Book of Remembrance of Joseph W. Musser <21 June 1932> page 30)

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 3rd, 2023, 4:08 am
by Niemand
“I do not believe the Manifesto was a revelation from God but was formulated by Prest. Woodruff and endorsed by his Councilors and the Twelve Apostles for expediency to meet the present situation of affairs in the Nation or those against the Church.” — Marriner W. Merrill (Marriner W. Merrill Journal, 20 August 1891, CHL)
To my mind, the Manifesto is definitely a political tactic, not a revelation. As I've said elsewhere, I have no problem with polygamy if all parties are adults, not closely related and not forced into it.

Ironically, if they'd waited long enough, and kept the practice lowkey, then they could have probably fought for it in America through constitutional means. Didn't the government seize children from a polygamist settlement somewhere once and it created such an outcry that it didn't happen again? The only time that the authorities tend to intervene now is if underage girls are being married off.

I think polygamy will be legalised by the USA, but not because of Mormon leaders, but three unexpected groups that most Mormons would strongly disagree with:
* Muslims will probably be the ones to force the issue. There are already a number of Muslim polygamists in the west. If they visit, then their wives are recognised, but if they settle, then they can only have one official one. Some day there will be test cases on this.
* Gays and lesbians — whatever one thinks of them, they have helped alter the law on marriage (one man, one woman) in western countries.
* Polyamorists — who have always seemed to me to be the bargain basement version of polygamy. It's hypocritical that one can father children by multiple women and carry on relationships with them, but not marry them. At some point, the polyamory crowd may decide they want actual marriage and mount a legal challenge.

I bet if the USA did legalise polygamy because of any of these groups, you might find Salt Lake doing a major U-turn on the issue. The Manifesto was about following government, but what if the government changes its mind? As I've said elsewhere, a good chunk of the Bible is written by or about polygamists.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 3rd, 2023, 4:24 am
by Niemand
I agree with the comments above about caving into secular authority. There is a direct line from this document to the "Godsend letter" which Nelson sent out about the Covid jags.

It reminds me of taqiyya in Islam. Taqiyya is when a Muslim lies to save their life, either by pretending not to be Muslim, or pretending not to be furthering certain Islamic goals. The Manifesto did not stamp out polygamy in Mormon circles and as we know, many major figures practiced it for years afterwards but had to lie about it. I think modern Mormonism continues to encourage lying at an unofficial level, especially within the temple interview.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 4th, 2023, 5:32 pm
by Dusty Wanderer
Niemand wrote: October 3rd, 2023, 4:08 am The Manifesto was about following government, but what if the government changes its mind?
Exactly. It set the precedent that the institution's God is government. This was highlighted with its handling of the Covid plandemic.

Whether its portfolio handling, tax laws, or the LGBTQ legislation, legality is morality now.

Re: The Manifesto - Not a Revelation

Posted: October 4th, 2023, 7:20 pm
by Bjǫrnúlfr
Luke wrote: October 3rd, 2023, 3:28 am
FrankOne wrote: October 1st, 2023, 8:13 pm
Luke wrote: October 1st, 2023, 9:26 am

Yes, you nailed it. Letters had been sent to John Taylor from the mid-1880s from the members asking him to do away with Plural Marriage. The members were just as in the wrong as the leaders were.
When i gave this subject much study some time ago, I really felt for Woodruff because about 9 yrs earlier, he had the lengthy revelation which included a warning from God that anyone that turned against polygamy was against God. (I don't have the revelation in front of me to quote).

so...Woodruff, seeing the imminent and pressing power of the U.S. govt against the church, no doubt prayed non-stop for God's guidance but....for some reason, he never received a confirmation to continue the course and to damn the torpedoes. So.. Woodruff used logic and it likely tore him in two. I can't speculate what would have happened if he had told the U.S. ...'no' and stood his ground. I'm sure that many would say that God would have intervened and saved the church from destruction, but....would he have? I certainly don't know. My personal take is out of the box , which is that everything that actually happens is God's will and within God's plan. It certainly was no surprise to God that Woodruff chose to abolish polygamy.
Woodruff’s reaction after signing the Manifesto:

“The time the Manifesto was signed, I was staying with my sister Mary Rundquist, who lived on a farm in Roy, Utah. I remember so vividly when the word came. My father and mother, and brother & sister Rundquist and his second wife Annie were in Charley and Mary’s home. Everything was so quiet. It seemed as though there was a feeling of some terrible happening taking place. I felt it in the home and even outside. In my young years (abt 9 years old) and not understanding the great significance of what had
happened, I felt the dreadful impact of it.
Some years later (abt 1925) I attended a meeting of the Daughters of Pioneers, held at the home of Mrs. Joseph J. Daynes on 5 East, who is a daughter of Pres. Wilford Woodruff; also another daughter Mrs. Beatty [not Beatty, but Beebe.*] was there. She spoke on the Manifesto. During her talk she said this:
‘The day father signed the manifesto, I was in the front room when he came home. I shall never forget his face. He moaned and said, ‘O God, what have I done?’ He immediately went up stairs to his room. He remained there for a whole week never speaking to any of us. When he came down to join the family he looked awful. The ravages of sickness could never have made him look worse. It was awful. (Signed)—Esther E. Morrison” [*correction by daughter of Esther.] (Esther E. Morrison Statement, in Lynn L. Bishop, The Great and Tragic Loss of Priesthood Keys in the Conflict over Celestial Plural Marriage <2007> pages 35-36)

“. . . Ira Millet called in the evening and we had a very interesting talk for an hour or so. He told me of having a talk with one of Wilford Woodruff’s sons who told him about his father weeping and lamenting the night after signing the manifesto, saying ‘My God what have I done?’” — Nathaniel Baldwin (Nathaniel Baldwin Diary, 9 April 1958)

“‘My God, what have I done?’ said Wilford Woodruff after signing the Manifesto. ‘You have entered into an agreement with death and hell!’ Joseph F. Smith [replied].” — Lorin C. Woolley (Items from the Book of Remembrance of Joseph W. Musser <21 June 1932> page 19)

“‘My God, what have I done?’ WW ‘You have entered into an agreement with death and hell!’ JFS at signing of manifesto.” — Lorin C. Woolley (Book of Remembrance of Joseph W. Musser <21 June 1932> page 30)
Someone claiming to have heard WW’s daughter say something 35 years after it happened or someone else claiming to have knowledge of a conversation that allegedly happened between WW and JFS 42 years earlier are both very unreliable sources. I wouldn’t put any stock into either of these.