Members are speaking out

[Libertas Est Salus]

This was an interesting video. They certainly were brave to do it.

However, they do make the most egregious of claims without any proof whatsoever. You can't simply say that the 15 are "evil", then read a bunch of scriptures showing past leaders being evil, and then say "See? They're evil."

Very fair point. They did mention the UN handholding stuff, and maybe a couple other brief points, but they really should have done a better job supporting their argument that current leaders are evil.

[Atrasado]

This was an interesting video. They certainly were brave to do it.

However, they do make the most egregious of claims without any proof whatsoever. You can't simply say that the 15 are "evil", then read a bunch of scriptures showing past leaders being evil, and then say "See? They're evil."

Very fair point. They did mention the UN handholding stuff, and maybe a couple other brief points, but they really should have done a better job supporting their argument that current leaders are evil.

All they need to support that argument is 2 words: Gordon Bowen.

[BigFootCain]

This was an interesting video. They certainly were brave to do it.

However, they do make the most egregious of claims without any proof whatsoever. You can't simply say that the 15 are "evil", then read a bunch of scriptures showing past leaders being evil, and then say "See? They're evil."

Very fair point. They did mention the UN handholding stuff, and maybe a couple other brief points, but they really should have done a better job supporting their argument that current leaders are evil.

I liked their video but I agree with these assessments. Maybe they will broach those topics in other messages. There is definitely a lot more they could mention with the Church appeasing the LGBTQ crowd - promoting trans and homosexuals at certain events, gay missionaries, gay men's Choir singing at the Washington D.C. temple, etc. More globalist UN nonsense, Bednar participating in the Climate Repentance farce, I could go on and on.

These things don't prove that they are abusing people in the temple however. What they can share is the Glenn Pace memo (even though it doesn't implicate the Q15) and they can share Marion B. Smith's report on sexual abuse in LDS neighborhoods which does indicate Nelson's daughter and son-in-law were involved in child abuse.

https://ia600105.us.archive.org/10/item ... e_text.pdf

[JK4Woods]

I've talked about perfection here before. I've spent years pondering and studying it so that i may apply and share my findings. I hope this helps those of you who are serious honest seekers.

Define perfection…

Be ye therefore perfect-today

Marc,
Very good thoughts.

I had something come to mind while reading your linked missive…. That the church is acting like a lawn mower… it trims everyone down to stay at the same level. The way the church runs things, we are taught about growth in theory, but “they” really don’t want anyone growing higher than allowed.

We have been homogenized to a uniform status.
Gone are High Priests groups, why?

One has to be a rebel to break out of the institutional mold the churches programs cultivate.

One can be excellent inside the party line, and will rise if complete dedication and loyalty to the institution of the church is pledged by one’s words and deeds. Zero tolerance for open wondering thinking.

A garden is the world. Many can grow high, others content to lay low, the majority of humanity are somewhere in between, in their many diverse capacities and abilities, planted in soil that may or may not be fertile for their particular growth.

I’m starting to recognize that all the varieties of people around the world need to be unfettered in the opportunity to grow and fulfill the full measure of their creation. To include their fruits and progeny.

This weekend comes a lot of seemingly grand speeches over the rostrum. But in the following weeks, the lawn mower is not far behind.

I am finding that for my personal growth, I cannot take my thoughts, wonderings, view points or inspirations into the staid ward. The organizational church knows not what to do with them, and are susceptible to feeling threatened.

The regulation of the church is to get us all row by row, in lock step, marching in a huge formation, past the Savior and Heavenly Father, as the leadership gets the glory for all the soldiers in the ranks.

Whereas, I think we are meant to learn correct principles… and then govern ourselves, and rise to the highest level we can, regardless whether some are not so far upon the path.

Homogenization is NOT good.

[Robin Hood]

This was an interesting video. They certainly were brave to do it.

However, they do make the most egregious of claims without any proof whatsoever. You can't simply say that the 15 are "evil", then read a bunch of scriptures showing past leaders being evil, and then say "See? They're evil." They do show evidence that they are courting wicked organizations such as the NAACP and the UN (I agree), but it's quite a jump from holding hands with the NAACP leadership to saying the 15 are child trafficking and committing sexual atrocities in the SLC temple. Could it be true? Sure. Is there proof? No. Not that I've seen yet.

What we need is a new Ezekiel ... one who the Lord takes behind the scenes and shows everything to. I hope that happens soon because if it's happening, it needs to be stopped.

People will often ask "where's the proof?" when the question is really "where's the evidence".
In this regard the evidence they offer is scriptural. I agree that it's flimsy, but it does qualify as evidence.

[Reluctant Watchman]

People will often ask "where's the proof?" when the question is really "where's the evidence".
In this regard the evidence they offer is scriptural. I agree that it's flimsy, but it does qualify as evidence.

How do you suggest a person provide evidence when all such actions are done in secret, and when the abused have had their mental state fractured and made to sound crazy? How do you prosecute mind control and abuse with evidence, especially when many of these abuses begin in early childhood?

[Reluctant Watchman]

We have been homogenized to a uniform status.

I'm writing a piece right now where I quote Amie Call and something she said about leaving the church: “I realized that for me to continue to thrive, and to do well, coming back into it (the church) almost felt like I was trying to put clothes on that were way too small for me.” 

The church has a literal glass ceiling of progression. You cannot attain more light and knowledge than a church leader. Your revelation ends where theirs begins.

[tmac]

I've talked about perfection here before. I've spent years pondering and studying it so that i may apply and share my findings. I hope this helps those of you who are serious honest seekers.

Define perfection…

Be ye therefore perfect-today

Marc,
Very good thoughts.

I had something come to mind while reading your linked missive…. That the church is acting like a lawn mower… it trims everyone down to stay at the same level. The way the church runs things, we are taught about growth in theory, but “they” really don’t want anyone growing higher than allowed.

We have been homogenized to a uniform status.
Gone are High Priests groups, why?

One has to be a rebel to break out of the institutional mold the churches programs cultivate.

One can be excellent inside the party line, and will rise if complete dedication and loyalty to the institution of the church is pledged by one’s words and deeds. Zero tolerance for open wondering thinking.

A garden is the world. Many can grow high, others content to lay low, the majority of humanity are somewhere in between, in their many diverse capacities and abilities, planted in soil that may or may not be fertile for their particular growth.

I’m starting to recognize that all the varieties of people around the world need to be unfettered in the opportunity to grow and fulfill the full measure of their creation. To include their fruits and progeny.

This weekend comes a lot of seemingly grand speeches over the rostrum. But in the following weeks, the lawn mower is not far behind.

I am finding that for my personal growth, I cannot take my thoughts, wonderings, view points or inspirations into the staid ward. The organizational church knows not what to do with them, and are susceptible to feeling threatened.

The regulation of the church is to get us all row by row, in lock step, marching in a huge formation, past the Savior and Heavenly Father, as the leadership gets the glory for all the soldiers in the ranks.

Whereas, I think we are meant to learn correct principles… and then govern ourselves, and rise to the highest level we can, regardless whether some are not so far upon the path.

Homogenization is NOT good.

Well said.

The only way the Church’s corporate sales pitch can work is if the gospel and salvation are one-size-fits-all, so that is the narrative they relentlessly push.

In the process, they have completely abandoned the higher laws and meat of the gospel, now seeking to focus only on the milk of the gospel and lower telestial laws.

[TheDuke]

Define perfection…

In my opinion, perfection on this earth is having your calling and election made sure. Those who have, have been completely sanctified and have received a small portion of celestial glory.

This perfection does not mean they make no errors or mistakes; it means they are following the Holy Spirit and have achieved the CK in the eyes of God. Like Noah.

Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

So, yes, it is perfectly achievable.

I agree with your idea of perfection. Also, we can be perfect in our constant repentence.

This is again a one-size-fits-all description of perfection and I think it shows a lack of understanding of the principles of eternal progression. For each person, in this one life, and more in the phase of life currently, it is different for everyone. I see it more as doing everything you can with all your effort to be the best person you can be. Constantly improving. For most religious it adds the ability to repent to through Christ and gaining many, some or all of his attributes.

I feel it is improper to judge others and say "earn C&E" or "earn CK", etc... for some that is failure, as exaltation is progress, for others obtaining telestial glory and escaping SoP is reaching a stage of perfection. For most, involved here and claiming knowledge and religion, it is obtaining terrestrial glory, following terrestrial laws and being baptized with water, accepting Christ and working towards becoming a "just man made perfect".

This is a telestial world, we are not here to become perfect in the sense of absolute measures, but relative measures, and each has their own gifts and weaknesses (to make them humble according to god). Be careful in how you determine perfection (and even good, and more over, evil). Seems people throw out those terms on FF like penalty flags in NFL.

[ransomme]

I've talked about perfection here before. I've spent years pondering and studying it so that i may apply and share my findings. I hope this helps those of you who are serious honest seekers.

Define perfection…

Be ye therefore perfect-today

IMO perfection is not possible today. Even the sinless Jesus who perfectly imaged the Father was not perfect until He returned the the Fathers presence.

It makes sense that we would not be complete until then.

[Mindfields]

Here are a few of my favorite scriptures that apply to what these women are doing.

Ether 8
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

I think he's talking to us. What will we do about it? If we are commanded by God to love our neighbors and we want to please God we have no choice but to tell others when we awaken to the awful situation.

I think if we don't act when we awaken this scripture applies.
Ezekiel 33
3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.

3 Nephi 16
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

Unfortunately, there are many members who believe that the majority of the church will be on the side of righteousness in the last days. I you believe the BOM only a few will stay true. The scriptures are full of warnings and commentary of the righteous becoming wicked. Nothing new to see and these women are trying to awaken others which I think is good. If we love the gospel we should strive to do what the scriptures tell us and be vigilant.

2 Nephi 28
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the away; they have become corrupted.
12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.
13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!
righteousness

I know these scriptures have been posted various times before but I take all this pretty seriously so it's worth repeating. Thoughts?

The current LDS membership do not believe the Book of Mormon. They like to read specific feel good scriptures and love to hear the commendation for the righteous. Sadly they haven’t applied these scriptures to themselves. It’s always easier to believe these scriptures were for the wicked Nephites.
I am not convinced that many will ever awake to a sense of their awful situation. Reading Isaiah and the Book of Mormon the past three years has awakened me. And if not even one of my LDS friends can see what is going on after what we have been through, I’m not sure anything will.

But that doesn’t mean we stop trying to awaken them. They are good people. My friends. They are worth the effort.

Ironically the Book of Mormon is anti Church Mormon. The list of current Mormon teachings vs the Book of Mormon's teachings are so different any reasonable person would have to concur that one of these things is not like the other.

I could make a list as long as my arm of things that today's mormonism counts as doctrine that either aren't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or are explicitly taught as evil. Go figure...

[Robin Hood]

People will often ask "where's the proof?" when the question is really "where's the evidence".
In this regard the evidence they offer is scriptural. I agree that it's flimsy, but it does qualify as evidence.

How do you suggest a person provide evidence when all such actions are done in secret, and when the abused have had their mental state fractured and made to sound crazy? How do you prosecute mind control and abuse with evidence, especially when many of these abuses begin in early childhood?

I'm not suggesting anything. I was responding to LDSphysician's comment about "proof".

[Reluctant Watchman]

People will often ask "where's the proof?" when the question is really "where's the evidence".
In this regard the evidence they offer is scriptural. I agree that it's flimsy, but it does qualify as evidence.

How do you suggest a person provide evidence when all such actions are done in secret, and when the abused have had their mental state fractured and made to sound crazy? How do you prosecute mind control and abuse with evidence, especially when many of these abuses begin in early childhood?

I'm not suggesting anything. I was responding to LDSphysician's comment about "proof".

I understand that. My point is though, you keep wanted “proof” and “evidence”, yet the crimes committed leave little of either.

[Robin Hood]

How do you suggest a person provide evidence when all such actions are done in secret, and when the abused have had their mental state fractured and made to sound crazy? How do you prosecute mind control and abuse with evidence, especially when many of these abuses begin in early childhood?

I'm not suggesting anything. I was responding to LDSphysician's comment about "proof".

I understand that. My point is though, you keep wanted “proof” and “evidence”, yet the crimes committed leave little of either.

Nevertheless, evidence is required.

[marc]

I've talked about perfection here before. I've spent years pondering and studying it so that i may apply and share my findings. I hope this helps those of you who are serious honest seekers.

Define perfection…

Be ye therefore perfect-today

IMO perfection is not possible today. Even the sinless Jesus who perfectly imaged the Father was not perfect until He returned the the Fathers presence.

It makes sense that we would not be complete until then.

I explained in great detail why I believe (and the Spirit seems to accord) that we absolutely CAN be perfect - as defined by Jesus - in this life. You can become perfect today. But if you really believe that you can't, then you are right.

[marc]

Marc,
Very good thoughts.

I had something come to mind while reading your linked missive…. That the church is acting like a lawn mower… it trims everyone down to stay at the same level. The way the church runs things, we are taught about growth in theory, but “they” really don’t want anyone growing higher than allowed.

We have been homogenized to a uniform status.
Gone are High Priests groups, why?

One has to be a rebel to break out of the institutional mold the churches programs cultivate.

One can be excellent inside the party line, and will rise if complete dedication and loyalty to the institution of the church is pledged by one’s words and deeds. Zero tolerance for open wondering thinking.

A garden is the world. Many can grow high, others content to lay low, the majority of humanity are somewhere in between, in their many diverse capacities and abilities, planted in soil that may or may not be fertile for their particular growth.

I’m starting to recognize that all the varieties of people around the world need to be unfettered in the opportunity to grow and fulfill the full measure of their creation. To include their fruits and progeny.

This weekend comes a lot of seemingly grand speeches over the rostrum. But in the following weeks, the lawn mower is not far behind.

I am finding that for my personal growth, I cannot take my thoughts, wonderings, view points or inspirations into the staid ward. The organizational church knows not what to do with them, and are susceptible to feeling threatened.

The regulation of the church is to get us all row by row, in lock step, marching in a huge formation, past the Savior and Heavenly Father, as the leadership gets the glory for all the soldiers in the ranks.

Whereas, I think we are meant to learn correct principles… and then govern ourselves, and rise to the highest level we can, regardless whether some are not so far upon the path.

Homogenization is NOT good.

I see the church as a dispensing machine with the default setting of milk and it is this way by design for the weakest of members and also new converts. The problem arises when members and new converts never ween themselves off of milk and have no problem with a weekly dose of little more than expired skim milk with minimal nutritional value requiring no effort but to suckle the church's proverbial teet. Only some few take the initiative to ween themselves from it in order to derive densely packed nutrition that comes from meat. That requires too much labor intensive hunting. It requires real intent and serious effort.

Ain't nobody got time for that!

[Reluctant Watchman]

Nevertheless, evidence is required.

Evidence that you'd accept is what you mean, right? Hence my original question. So many people completely discount SRA, MK Ultra, etc., because they demand evidence of a crime that produces almost no evidence, only scarred souls and fractured minds.

[Seed Starter]

I'm not suggesting anything. I was responding to LDSphysician's comment about "proof".

I understand that. My point is though, you keep wanted “proof” and “evidence”, yet the crimes committed leave little of either.

Nevertheless, evidence is required.

Is there evidence that the church is doing anything to prevent trafficking in these disaster situations? I'm not saying they have to but if they aren't aware, they should be if they have people on the ground. If they are aware of exploited children and do nothing where they could do something perhaps someone should ask why not.

[Nevervaxxed]

Here are a few of my favorite scriptures that apply to what these women are doing.

Ether 8
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

I think he's talking to us. What will we do about it? If we are commanded by God to love our neighbors and we want to please God we have no choice but to tell others when we awaken to the awful situation.

I think if we don't act when we awaken this scripture applies.
Ezekiel 33
3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.

3 Nephi 16
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

Unfortunately, there are many members who believe that the majority of the church will be on the side of righteousness in the last days. I you believe the BOM only a few will stay true. The scriptures are full of warnings and commentary of the righteous becoming wicked. Nothing new to see and these women are trying to awaken others which I think is good. If we love the gospel we should strive to do what the scriptures tell us and be vigilant.

2 Nephi 28
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the away; they have become corrupted.
12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.
13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!
righteousness

I know these scriptures have been posted various times before but I take all this pretty seriously so it's worth repeating. Thoughts?

The current LDS membership do not believe the Book of Mormon. They like to read specific feel good scriptures and love to hear the commendation for the righteous. Sadly they haven’t applied these scriptures to themselves. It’s always easier to believe these scriptures were for the wicked Nephites.
I am not convinced that many will ever awake to a sense of their awful situation. Reading Isaiah and the Book of Mormon the past three years has awakened me. And if not even one of my LDS friends can see what is going on after what we have been through, I’m not sure anything will.

But that doesn’t mean we stop trying to awaken them. They are good people. My friends. They are worth the effort.

Ironically the Book of Mormon is anti Church Mormon. The list of current Mormon teachings vs the Book of Mormon's teachings are so different any reasonable person would have to concur that one of these things is not like the other.

I could make a list as long as my arm of things that today's mormonism counts as doctrine that either aren't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or are explicitly taught as evil. Go figure...

This. Well said

[Nevervaxxed]

Here are a few of my favorite scriptures that apply to what these women are doing.

Ether 8
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

I think he's talking to us. What will we do about it? If we are commanded by God to love our neighbors and we want to please God we have no choice but to tell others when we awaken to the awful situation.

I think if we don't act when we awaken this scripture applies.
Ezekiel 33
3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.

3 Nephi 16
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

Unfortunately, there are many members who believe that the majority of the church will be on the side of righteousness in the last days. I you believe the BOM only a few will stay true. The scriptures are full of warnings and commentary of the righteous becoming wicked. Nothing new to see and these women are trying to awaken others which I think is good. If we love the gospel we should strive to do what the scriptures tell us and be vigilant.

2 Nephi 28
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the away; they have become corrupted.
12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.
13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!
righteousness

I know these scriptures have been posted various times before but I take all this pretty seriously so it's worth repeating. Thoughts?

The current LDS membership do not believe the Book of Mormon. They like to read specific feel good scriptures and love to hear the commendation for the righteous. Sadly they haven’t applied these scriptures to themselves. It’s always easier to believe these scriptures were for the wicked Nephites.
I am not convinced that many will ever awake to a sense of their awful situation. Reading Isaiah and the Book of Mormon the past three years has awakened me. And if not even one of my LDS friends can see what is going on after what we have been through, I’m not sure anything will.

But that doesn’t mean we stop trying to awaken them. They are good people. My friends. They are worth the effort.

Ironically the Book of Mormon is anti Church Mormon. The list of current Mormon teachings vs the Book of Mormon's teachings are so different any reasonable person would have to concur that one of these things is not like the other.

I could make a list as long as my arm of things that today's mormonism counts as doctrine that either aren't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or are explicitly taught as evil. Go figure...

This. Well said

[Reluctant Watchman]

I could make a list as long as my arm of things that today's mormonism counts as doctrine that either aren't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or are explicitly taught as evil. Go figure...

Let me know if you have anything I should consider adding to my list:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-b ... lds-church

[ransomme]

I've talked about perfection here before. I've spent years pondering and studying it so that i may apply and share my findings. I hope this helps those of you who are serious honest seekers.



Be ye therefore perfect-today

IMO perfection is not possible today. Even the sinless Jesus who perfectly imaged the Father was not perfect until He returned the the Fathers presence.

It makes sense that we would not be complete until then.

I explained in great detail why I believe (and the Spirit seems to accord) that we absolutely CAN be perfect - as defined by Jesus - in this life. You can become perfect today. But if you really believe that you can't, then you are right.

Let me clarify. My point was that anything less than being admitted into His presence falls short of "being perfect". And I MO saying do it "today" cheapens the idea.

[Libertas Est Salus]

I could make a list as long as my arm of things that today's mormonism counts as doctrine that either aren't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or are explicitly taught as evil. Go figure...

Let me know if you have anything I should consider adding to my list:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-b ... lds-church

Putting shredded cheese in green Jell-O. That's one of the more offensive ones, personally. That is something that MUST STOP.

[Seed Starter]

This was an interesting video. They certainly were brave to do it.

However, they do make the most egregious of claims without any proof whatsoever. You can't simply say that the 15 are "evil", then read a bunch of scriptures showing past leaders being evil, and then say "See? They're evil." They do show evidence that they are courting wicked organizations such as the NAACP and the UN (I agree), but it's quite a jump from holding hands with the NAACP leadership to saying the 15 are child trafficking and committing sexual atrocities in the SLC temple. Could it be true? Sure. Is there proof? No. Not that I've seen yet.

What we need is a new Ezekiel ... one who the Lord takes behind the scenes and shows everything to. I hope that happens soon because if it's happening, it needs to be stopped.

I'm personally not a fan of the brethren but making outrageous claims with out a shred of evidence is not helpful. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". This goes for church truth claims as well.

I agree. Evidence of wrongdoing is important and so is evidence of good works and truth claims.

[John Tavner]

I could make a list as long as my arm of things that today's mormonism counts as doctrine that either aren't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or are explicitly taught as evil. Go figure...

Let me know if you have anything I should consider adding to my list:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-b ... lds-church

Putting shredded cheese in green Jello-O. That's one of the more offensive ones, personally. That is something that MUST STOP.

Wow, I didn't realize I held such vitriol towards jello with cheese until you said that, but within my heart i cried "AMEN!"