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Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 4:13 pm
by Trucker
Also from the article:
"Tim Ballard’s ambitions for U.S. Senate were the worst kept secret in Utah. Ballard had left OUR and formed the Spear Fund, an organization that would function much like Slave Stealers, the for profit entity that Russell Ballard and Tim Ballard had formulated to oversee OUR and other nonprofits. Vice News specifically alleged that documentation from OUR sources and text messages showed Tim Ballard representing Russell Ballard as a partner in Slave Stealers."
The alleged statement from the church decries Tim Ballard using Elder Ballard's name in raising funds for his business ventures, but is it true? No one seems to be asking if Elder Ballard really was/is a silent partner.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 4:14 pm
by larsenb
BigT wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 9:00 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 6:10 am
Atrasado wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 9:26 pm
Today a
substack article was published by a Utah private investigator who writes using the name Go El. This investigator typically covers that David Hamblin case, and other alleged Utah SRA activities. I have read most of this man's stuff and I think he is quite credible. He is professional investigator with decades of investigative experience.
This man writes that he has obtained evidence of the following:
1. The accusations against Tim Ballard have been instigated by Mitt Romney and Gordon Bowen.
(Gordon Bowen is a man accused by the Hamblin sisters of horrific SRA crimes. Hamblin has other horrible accusations against him, some of which have come out in his divorce proceedings.)
2. The motive in attacking Tim Ballard was to keep both Utah US Senate seats from falling into the hands of strong conservatives.
3. The reason that the article was sent to Vice is because they were the only organization that would run the article. Apparently, this is because not a single woman was willing to come forward and verify these accusations. It is alleged that this is due to fear, however it is hard to understand what they would have to fear in doing so except for reputational issues.
4. Bowen has access to President Ballard's office, and used Ballard's staff to forward the allegations that he personally wrote to Vice.
5. This is apparently a national issue because senator Mitch McConnell has become involved in these attacks on Ballard and has funded media hits against Tim Ballard.
6. There are, according to this investigator, at least four LDS apostles who maintain regular contact with Gordon Bowen. They are Ballard, Gong, Anderson, and Christofferson.
7. Apparently, Gong and Ballard are close friends. This is beyond suspicious.
I haven't been a big fan of Tim Ballard, and I still am not, however, it seems like he is getting a raw deal. I am especially troubled by the involvement of Gordon Bowen in this case. In another thread, I pointed out that it is reprehensible that the church would attack Tim Ballard while saying nothing about a true monster such as Gordon Bowen. It is surprising and a strange coincidence that Bowen is actually involved in these things. However, this does explain why the church hasn't denounced Gordon Bowen.
Could you tell us about this Gordon Bowen character. I know nothing about him or anything he has done.
Articles I’ve red bout him are now behind a paywall. Here’s a short video:
https://rumble.com/v27aioi-investigatio ... bowen.html
Good grief!!
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 4:15 pm
by Trucker
tmac wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:10 pm
Trucker wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:05 pm
From the article:
"However, there is no good or reasonable explanation for Tim Ballard to take any woman posing as his wife along on a sex trafficking sting or raid. The goal of any sting operation is to obtain information, apprehensions, and convictions with minimal complication or risk. There is no tactical reason for a man posing as a sex trafficker to bring his wife along for the ride. "
There actually is, and the reason is that when he would go to these seedy places he would be expected to partake in carnal activities. By bring a "wife" he would avoid having to do that and instead "do it" with his "wife." She would say she didn't want him doing anything with another woman, so they would leave him alone.
All reasonable fodder for speculation, but that’s about all. According to JR, who says he went on about 12 ops, the vast majority of the time they were dealing with the lowest level, most rinky-dink operators imaginable. The myriad of inconsistencies are becoming legion.
Someone from OUR, or Tim, or his wife explained this but I can't remember who. If I find it I'll post it.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 4:32 pm
by Robin Hood
tmac wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 3:23 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 3:11 pm
RosyPosy wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 11:37 pm
Wow me might be looking at a communist infiltration of church leadership.
Christofferson gave a talk about the UN agenda 2030 and their SDG's.
Gong, Anderson and Ballard I believe were the ones wearing the SDG pins.
It's worth pointing out that Elder Christofferson's talk was quite critical of the UN SDG's.
Is that how you read his talk? I didn’t find it critical at all. I thought he was lauding the UN’s efforts, while saying that from God’s perspective perhaps some other things should have priority too.
What I got out of it was “as important as the UN’s SDGs are, there are some other things that are even more important.” Ya think?
The fact that he would draw any positive attention to the SDGs, and discuss them in any positive light is disturbing.
"Critical" was perhaps a little strong. However, I came away with the understanding that he wasn't at all impressed with the SDG's.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 6:17 pm
by Trucker
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 9:08 pm
by Seed Starter
Are you talking about evidence of crimes or evidence of children saved?
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 9:19 pm
by Seed Starter
Down_the_rabbithole wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:11 pm
It's always hard for me to believe "anonymous accusers". I also find the timing at which these anonymous accusers decided to come forward as most suspicious, along with the rag "Vice" being involved. The way the church PR has handled it is also very odd and honestly asinine. Until I see actual evidence, not just accusations from nameless, faceless, people... I'm giving TB the "innocent until proven guilty" treatment. If he is guilty, then throw the book at him. Some people are also as gleeful as a child on Christmas morning with these accusation and the possible fall of TB, which is also bizarre and pathetic, imo.
A big tip off for me is the church's reaction. You're right it is very odd. It would only be asinine if the church if they just made that decision based on anonymous accusers. The church knows that if they come out against Tim they better be right. I think the church has the resources to gather the intel needed to make the right call. I think the church has evidence we can't see. Otherwise it makes no sense. The church isn't dumb and it has many more resources than we do. I'm making an educated guess that the church knows he's guilty of something bad. Whether he did or didn't do wrong can you guys check my logic here? Why would the church explode a relationship it has cultivated for years without evidence? They certainly didn't just believe what vice published. I think a lot of Utah member's heads are spinning that their church would pile on Tim. Time will tell.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 9:30 pm
by Rubicon
Seed Starter wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 9:19 pm
Down_the_rabbithole wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:11 pm
It's always hard for me to believe "anonymous accusers". I also find the timing at which these anonymous accusers decided to come forward as most suspicious, along with the rag "Vice" being involved. The way the church PR has handled it is also very odd and honestly asinine. Until I see actual evidence, not just accusations from nameless, faceless, people... I'm giving TB the "innocent until proven guilty" treatment. If he is guilty, then throw the book at him. Some people are also as gleeful as a child on Christmas morning with these accusation and the possible fall of TB, which is also bizarre and pathetic, imo.
A big tip off for me is the church's reaction. You're right it is very odd. It would only be asinine if the church if they just made that decision based on anonymous accusers. The church knows that if they come out against Tim they better be right. I think the church has the resources to gather the intel needed to make the right call. I think the church has evidence we can't see. Otherwise it makes no sense. The church isn't dumb and it has many more resources than we do. I'm making an educated guess that the church knows he's guilty of something bad. Whether he did or didn't do wrong can you guys check my logic here? Why would the church explode a relationship it has cultivated for years without evidence? They certainly didn't just believe what vice published. I think a lot of Utah member's heads are spinning that their church would pile on Tim. Time will tell.
In a word: wokeness. Wokeness among the Brethren, but especially wokeness among COB bureaucrats and the Brethren's handlers. The timing, and the odd behavior of the Church in this makes it look to me like it was meant to kill Ballard's Senate prospects.
As it is, there are enough muddy waters on both sides of this that it is impossible to say for sure what is real.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 9:32 pm
by silverado
larsenb wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:14 pm
Good grief!!
Elder Ballards wife was Barbara Bowen Ballard. I don't know if they are related though.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 9:32 pm
by Rubicon
It won't matter what ends up happening with Ballard and evidence, because his Senate prospects are now toast. Even if, hypothetically, he could somehow be definitively exonerated. The doubt has been down, and the damage is done.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 10:15 pm
by Wolfwoman
Seed Starter wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 9:19 pm
Down_the_rabbithole wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:11 pm
It's always hard for me to believe "anonymous accusers". I also find the timing at which these anonymous accusers decided to come forward as most suspicious, along with the rag "Vice" being involved. The way the church PR has handled it is also very odd and honestly asinine. Until I see actual evidence, not just accusations from nameless, faceless, people... I'm giving TB the "innocent until proven guilty" treatment. If he is guilty, then throw the book at him. Some people are also as gleeful as a child on Christmas morning with these accusation and the possible fall of TB, which is also bizarre and pathetic, imo.
A big tip off for me is the church's reaction. You're right it is very odd. It would only be asinine if the church if they just made that decision based on anonymous accusers. The church knows that if they come out against Tim they better be right. I think the church has the resources to gather the intel needed to make the right call. I think the church has evidence we can't see. Otherwise it makes no sense. The church isn't dumb and it has many more resources than we do. I'm making an educated guess that the church knows he's guilty of something bad. Whether he did or didn't do wrong can you guys check my logic here? Why would the church explode a relationship it has cultivated for years without evidence? They certainly didn't just believe what vice published. I think a lot of Utah member's heads are spinning that their church would pile on Tim. Time will tell.
Maybe President Nelson checked his seerstone to find out and then ok’d the statement by Doug Anderson.
If they have strong evidence, I wonder why they didn’t tell Tim’s stake president to excommunicate him. Technically they’re not supposed to get involved in excommunications, but we all know they certainly have.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 24th, 2023, 10:43 pm
by Seed Starter
Rubicon wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 9:30 pm
Seed Starter wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 9:19 pm
Down_the_rabbithole wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:11 pm
It's always hard for me to believe "anonymous accusers". I also find the timing at which these anonymous accusers decided to come forward as most suspicious, along with the rag "Vice" being involved. The way the church PR has handled it is also very odd and honestly asinine. Until I see actual evidence, not just accusations from nameless, faceless, people... I'm giving TB the "innocent until proven guilty" treatment. If he is guilty, then throw the book at him. Some people are also as gleeful as a child on Christmas morning with these accusation and the possible fall of TB, which is also bizarre and pathetic, imo.
A big tip off for me is the church's reaction. You're right it is very odd. It would only be asinine if the church if they just made that decision based on anonymous accusers. The church knows that if they come out against Tim they better be right. I think the church has the resources to gather the intel needed to make the right call. I think the church has evidence we can't see. Otherwise it makes no sense. The church isn't dumb and it has many more resources than we do. I'm making an educated guess that the church knows he's guilty of something bad. Whether he did or didn't do wrong can you guys check my logic here? Why would the church explode a relationship it has cultivated for years without evidence? They certainly didn't just believe what vice published. I think a lot of Utah member's heads are spinning that their church would pile on Tim. Time will tell.
In a word: wokeness. Wokeness among the Brethren, but especially wokeness among COB bureaucrats and the Brethren's handlers. The timing, and the odd behavior of the Church in this makes it look to me like it was meant to kill Ballard's Senate prospects.
As it is, there are enough muddy waters on both sides of this that it is impossible to say for sure what is real.
I agree with you. I am curious how you square this wokeness and brethren handling with your position as a faithful member. The Q15 are often held up as standards of righteousness and we are asked to sustain them in their callings. If some of them aren't clicking in when it comes to the evil of wokeness and they're allowing or participating in handling does that challenge your assumptions of who these men are and their connection to God? Perhaps I'm making assumptions about your assumptions
Maybe it doesn't matter so much what those men do. For most follow the prophet means doing what he says and that goes for every one of the Q15. Surely God would tell these men wokeness is a great evil the same as any other sin they caution us about. Can they not hear God or isn't he telling them?
Wokeness is obviously evil from where I sit. I would guess you're in the same camp. Is this political involvement 5D chess to grow the church or just men being clueless? From a regular Utah member's standpoint they may see Tim as a hero of justice. If the church is helping to take down a hero of justice what would the conclusion of that same member be about the righteousness of church leaders?
I don't mean for this to come off sounding like a challenge to you. You've been very clear about your commitment to the church and your desire to follow even as you see mistakes being made by mortal men. I don't wish to change that but I'm really curious how you keep the faith. If Tim is innocent and the church cut him down in the press it looks horrible for the church. If he's guilty then the church has been associating with an imposter and an abuser of women for years and even allowing him to speak in their chapels. Either way many Utah members should be prepared to have one of their heroes taken down a notch before this is over. Or they will have to ignore some reality to keep both heroes at the same status. I think you're right about Tim. The damage is done.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 3:30 am
by Robin Hood
Seed Starter wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 9:19 pm
Down_the_rabbithole wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:11 pm
It's always hard for me to believe "anonymous accusers". I also find the timing at which these anonymous accusers decided to come forward as most suspicious, along with the rag "Vice" being involved. The way the church PR has handled it is also very odd and honestly asinine. Until I see actual evidence, not just accusations from nameless, faceless, people... I'm giving TB the "innocent until proven guilty" treatment. If he is guilty, then throw the book at him. Some people are also as gleeful as a child on Christmas morning with these accusation and the possible fall of TB, which is also bizarre and pathetic, imo.
A big tip off for me is the church's reaction. You're right it is very odd. It would only be asinine if the church if they just made that decision based on anonymous accusers. The church knows that if they come out against Tim they better be right. I think the church has the resources to gather the intel needed to make the right call. I think the church has evidence we can't see. Otherwise it makes no sense. The church isn't dumb and it has many more resources than we do. I'm making an educated guess that the church knows he's guilty of something bad. Whether he did or didn't do wrong can you guys check my logic here? Why would the church explode a relationship it has cultivated for years without evidence? They certainly didn't just believe what vice published. I think a lot of Utah member's heads are spinning that their church would pile on Tim. Time will tell.
I think you give the church too much credit.
We need to look at the big picture here. Lately the church has been in the news for all the wrong reasons. Bishops abusing kids, paedophiles not reported to the authorities by bishops and SP's. Multi-$million settlements etc. So, the church gets a whiff of something and see it as an opportunity to get ahead of the game and get a bit of positive Gentile press.
They don't need evidence or proof, just enough rumour to react to and make themselves look good.
I think it stinks.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 6:42 am
by Fred
InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 3:29 pm
tmac wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 3:16 pm
Fair enough. Who’s got the burden of proof and persuasion here? That’s who’s responsible for producing evidence.
At a certain point, once enough evidence (even in the loosest sense of the term) is produced to make a “prima facie” case, and create probable cause to believe one way or the other, then the burden of proof/persuasion essentially shifts to disprove the prima facie evidence.
But of course none of that matters to people who who are already satisfied with the existing support for their current positions, paradigms, and convictions.
I mean, it's entirely possible that Ballard is a creepy, deep state agent... (nothing would surprise me these days). But... we don't even know if these women are even real people.
We know for 100% certainty that one of them is real. She did an interview with TB and she admitted that she participated in fake sax while naked. She said it was merely a matter of the angle of the viewer. The video was posted here and has since been made private. However, many of us saw if before it was pulled. She said that they practiced it a lot. She bragged at how good she was at it. She started her own podcast and Tim was her first guest and that video is still available, but she did not go into the details of fake kissing and fake insertion like she did in the one that was pulled.
She and Tim were both rather pleased with themselves for being so clever.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 6:43 am
by Fred
Rubicon wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 9:32 pm
It won't matter what ends up happening with Ballard and evidence, because his Senate prospects are now toast. Even if, hypothetically, he could somehow be definitively exonerated. The doubt has been down, and the damage is done.
Good! We don't need any more deep state operatives pretending to represent us.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 6:57 am
by tmac
The end justifies the means. If you can have a lot of practice doing fake sex so that you can take down some rinky dink low-level sex traffickers, who don’t even care about your fake sex, and who you basically entrap, by adamantly insisting that they come up with some younger, tighter, “mas fresco” girls, it’s all good — whatever it takes to take-down the “bad guys.” Except guys like Gordon Bowen, who also hang-out with MRB and the Brethren. Completely ignore them, and pretend they don’t exist. That’s what passes as heroism for a lot of people these days.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 7:03 am
by Rubicon
Seed Starter wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 10:43 pm
I agree with you. I am curious how you square this wokeness and brethren handling with your position as a faithful member. The Q15 are often held up as standards of righteousness and we are asked to sustain them in their callings. If some of them aren't clicking in when it comes to the evil of wokeness and they're allowing or participating in handling does that challenge your assumptions of who these men are and their connection to God? Perhaps I'm making assumptions about your assumptions
Maybe it doesn't matter so much what those men do. For most follow the prophet means doing what he says and that goes for every one of the Q15. Surely God would tell these men wokeness is a great evil the same as any other sin they caution us about. Can they not hear God or isn't he telling them?
Wokeness is obviously evil from where I sit. I would guess you're in the same camp. Is this political involvement 5D chess to grow the church or just men being clueless? From a regular Utah member's standpoint they may see Tim as a hero of justice. If the church is helping to take down a hero of justice what would the conclusion of that same member be about the righteousness of church leaders?
I see it as similar to the Jews at the time of Christ. Jesus sent people to comply with the Mosaic law, even though He had come to fulfill it. Revelation came through the high priest, even though the institutions were largely rotten. I believe that the Restoration is real --- that keys were restored by the laying on of hands of angels and then given to successors. The authority still resides in the Church, even when the Church isn't running on all cylinders. I don't think God is a "deist" --- I don't think he sits back and never intervenes at all --- but, it seems clear to me that He is letting His key holders pull out a lot of rope and use their agency in ways I don't think He approves of. The decline of the Church I see as the inevitable fulfilling of the times of the Gentiles spoken of in scripture.
My family and I see and feel the fruits of the Spirit and the priesthood in our lives, so fumbling by the Brethren are really just the "crackling of the thorns under the pot" to us (a Brigham Young expression meaning "of no consequence"). It's sad, but we know that the derivative authority we hold is true and good, even when the institutional Church is flailing. And, we use our spheres of influence to testify and build up the kingdom in our corners of the vineyard.
I think the Brethren partially think how they are running the Church is awesome, and partially they are afraid to cross the COB-industrial complex of handlers and PR people. Those people are very liberal and very agenda-driven, and the Brethren could kick them to the curb and get rid of them, but it would enact short term pain (for long-term gain) to do that. I think that they mean well, in their own eyes, but they are almost to a man too beholden to the academia/business/law/medicine/CES system cloth from which they are all cut. They govern by focus groups, surveys, and consultants, with predictable results. They have the keys and could rely more on revelation, but they currently choose to regard the "revelation of councils" (meaning, focus groups, consultants, surveys, and discussion and decision) as the only form of revelation. Sad, and limiting.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 7:03 am
by Fred
Trucker wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 6:17 pm
Posted an hour ago
What a crock!
I wish I would have copied that video that was pulled. But the truth will come out. He is a lying snake. First hand knowledge here as I saw him and the woman brag about how clever they were in the pulled video.
Lots of people saw the video. Perhaps thousands.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 7:31 am
by Atrasado
silverado wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 9:32 pm
larsenb wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 4:14 pm
Good grief!!
Elder Ballards wife was Barbara Bowen Ballard. I don't know if they are related though.
They aren't. Bowen's Father is an English immigrant who came to Utah after WWII. Sister Ballard's family are Utah pioneers. I've looked them up on familysearch and looked at the obituary for Gordon Bowen's father.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 8:04 am
by mudflap
Hmmm.
Is it
"Every politician who hates Tim Ballard is a Pedo"
?
or am I jumping the gun here....
?
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 9:13 am
by tmac
Who knows? What is probably fair to say is that we really have no idea who Tim Ballard really even is, or what he really stands for. Actions speak louder than words? Don’t judge a book by its cover?
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 9:26 am
by Atrasado
mudflap wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 8:04 am
Hmmm.
Is it
"Every politician who hates Tim Ballard is a Pedo"
?
or am I jumping the gun here....
?
You seem facetious, however I still don't think it's that simple.
As I've said a few times, I'm not a fan of Tim Ballard. I've never been a fan of his. I don't trust him and I don't think he is completely sincere, although I can't judge his heart. Everything I've seen lately shows that this was probably the correct position to take: the large salary, the OUR mission sex nonsense, etc.
However, that doesn't mean that Tim Ballard is devoid of all morals or that he doesn't have some good intent. It probably doesn't take too much to end up on the Cabal 's bad side.
So, I don't think that the move to smear TB (however true that is) is driven by pure intent. I suspect that what Go El wrote is correct. That it was Mitt Romney and Gordon Bowen trying to keep the Senate seat in "moderate" hands.
Are all politicians pedophiles? Well, think about Jeffrey Epstein and all the people he compromised. From what I've heard Epstein was just the one that was sloppy enough and not evil enough that he got caught. Politicians a plenty are compromised. It need not be all of them, and in fact it might be optimal if it isn't since it's easy to hide behind the unwitting.
My final take is this: Gordon Bowen is a wicked man so if he's on the other side of this then this whole thing is nefarious. And the fact that, by multiple accounts and by Russ Ballard's own mouth (Ballard calls him his prodigal son), Gordon Bowen associates with members of the Quorum of the Twelve is all anyone should need to know about the leadership of the Church. They are on the wrong side, at least (too) many of them.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 9:43 am
by tmac
Is the whole TB drama fest just a well-planned distraction to divert attention from what is really happening?
That’s starting to look more plausible all the time.
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 9:43 am
by Seed Starter
Fred wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 7:03 am
Trucker wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 6:17 pm
Posted an hour ago
What a crock!
I wish I would have copied that video that was pulled. But the truth will come out. He is a lying snake. First hand knowledge here as I saw him and the woman brag about how clever they were in the pulled video.
Lots of people saw the video. Perhaps thousands.
I saw a lot of that other video as well. Lot's of pride on display there. My takeaways from this new video are:
1. Children don't just fall out of the sky.
2. They don't just fall on your desk.
3. It's time for donors to look under the hood.
Does he think he's talking to children here?
Re: Interesting article about Tim Ballard, Utah politics, and the Church
Posted: September 25th, 2023, 9:54 am
by Seed Starter
Atrasado wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 9:26 am
mudflap wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 8:04 am
Hmmm.
Is it
"Every politician who hates Tim Ballard is a Pedo"
?
or am I jumping the gun here....
?
You seem facetious, however I still don't think it's that simple.
As I've said a few times, I'm not a fan of Tim Ballard. I've never been a fan of his. I don't trust him and I don't think he is completely sincere, although I can't judge his heart. Everything I've seen lately shows that this was probably the correct position to take: the large salary, the OUR mission sex nonsense, etc.
However, that doesn't mean that Tim Ballard is devoid of all morals or that he doesn't have some good intent. It probably doesn't take too much to end up on the Cabal 's bad side.
So, I don't think that the move to smear TB (however true that is) is driven by pure intent. I suspect that what Go El wrote is correct. That it was Mitt Romney and Gordon Bowen trying to keep the Senate seat in "moderate" hands.
Are all politicians pedophiles? Well, think about Jeffrey Epstein and all the people he compromised. From what I've heard Epstein was just the one that was sloppy enough and not evil enough that he got caught. Politicians a plenty are compromised.
My take is this: Gordon Bowen is a wicked man. If he's on the other side of this then this whole thing is nefarious. And the fact that, by multiple accounts and by Russ Ballard's own mouth (Ballard calls him his prodigal son), Gordon Bowen associates with members of the Quorum of the Twelve is all anyone should need to know about the leadership of the Church.
I think you're onto something here. It's looking like TB has some real issues and it is being used for something larger. Since Bowen is an ad guy who has worked with Romney a lot before why couldn't he be involved in this? I wonder how much Bowen is getting for this job? I can't believe Romney's sons interned for Bowen and many of his sons stayed in Bowen's NY place? Bowen was going to get one of Romney's sons a modeling gig? So creepy.
