LDS Freedom Forum

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 5:25 am This video has been shared before, but I think it’s worth posting again, especially now since I’m contemplating a greater sense of God’s love for all of His children in all religions that teach truth and light. Most religions you can step away from and they’ll often wish you well. (That’s not true for all religions, but many.) I think this is why it’s so hard for members of the church to see their family members leave, due to this type of conditioning and what it means to leave the LDS org. You can’t just leave the church, apparently you lose all connection to God and anything that means anything in the eternities.

God is more loving and kind than the opinions/teachings of this man.

Why is he assuming that a person stepping away from the LDS Church would leave the Book of Mormon behind? And prophets? I know someone I view as a true prophet, and he testifies of Christ, doesn't care if people speak evil of him, and tries to get people to rely on Christ and not himself.

I have not left the Book of Mormon behind. I have not left Joseph Smith behind (in fact, I believe I view him much more clearly than I did when I was a tbm follower of the Brethren). I listen to prophets and messengers who point to Christ (some of those messengers post here; one does not have to be "special" to share the words of Christ).

Curious Thinker got through it putting it on 2x speed. I couldn't get through it. I got tired of "say goodbye to" the things he a) thought people would be saying goodbye to and b) things he thought were worth keeping. I stopped in the middle of his long list of fealty to men.

Blue Marble wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:14 am Yes, such has been my experience.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:30 am"Your mileage may vary."

I have had just the opposite experience. Most of the people I know who have left the church are thriving spiritually. They've found wonderful new communities of believers in Christ and ardent truth seekers.

I think it depends on who you are around. For me, I began to hang around others looking for Christ ~ 2012, online. When the Heavenly Gift forum was created (only lasted a couple of years, iirc), I joined LDSFF so I could read the posts. I made some friends. When Denver started his 10-lecture circuit, I met a lot of the people I had been talking to on that forum (including the man who owns LDSFF). Over the course of the next few years, I met others in person who were not on any forums.

Those many people are mostly no longer LDS. Some were excommunicated, some left because they felt they couldn't stay with a corrupt Church, and at least one couple left because they were invited to by their bishop (I think it was the bishop and not the stake prez, though it was the stake prez who put them in the cross-hairs because their son and his wife were in the same stake and not toeing the party line so well).

Out of all of the ones who are no longer members, some fell by the wayside. Some lost belief in the Book of Mormon, maybe even in God - but the majority hold fast to God and are trying to follow God according to their own consciences and understanding, instead of following a man who proclaims he has the keys to salvation, demanding tithing from the poor, etc.

Blue Marble wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:02 am It’s true that most who leave the church are spiritually out of sorts, but so is Wilcox. Just look at his frame, his demeanor. He’s weak and fat, he speaks with insincere passion. Pedo vibes.

Holy crap!! I thought I was the only one who noticed this. He seems like such a ginormous, closeted homosexual. Its as if he is wearing a big neon sign on his head with the word "gay," and an arrow pointing down.

Maybe this is already on this thread but I found a couple of other paragraphs from his talk:

16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou hast made it known unto us that there shall be no Christ.
17 But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of our brethren, which doth bind them down to a belief of Christ, which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our God.
18 And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.

Oops- maybe that wasn’t from Wilcox’s talk. Sounds pretty similar though

Mamabear wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 2:42 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 2:29 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 11:22 am Brad was (is?) a professor at BYU in the department of Ancient Scripture. He's spoken several times during their weekly devotionals. He is also a celebrity of sorts among the youth and speaks all over the church as kind of a motivational speaker. In April of 2023, he was called as the First Counselor in the YM General Presidency.

He's also rumored to be on the short list for the next apostle.

Ewww. Guess he would fit the bill.
Did you know Brad has been teaching Utah boys about puberty?

https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-in ... ut-puberty

IMG_4614.jpeg

“Wilcox says he has been giving such lectures for about 35 years, including in public schools, even though he has no background in health. That and his prominence in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has put some parents and taxpayers at unease.“

That's just sick.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2023, 12:35 am

Mamabear wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 2:42 pm

Shawn Henry wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 2:29 pm
He's also rumored to be on the short list for the next apostle.

Ewww. Guess he would fit the bill.
Did you know Brad has been teaching Utah boys about puberty?

https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-in ... ut-puberty

IMG_4614.jpeg

“Wilcox says he has been giving such lectures for about 35 years, including in public schools, even though he has no background in health. That and his prominence in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has put some parents and taxpayers at unease.“

That's just sick.

It all kind of just adds up, doesn't it?

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:05 am

Blue Marble wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:02 am It’s true that most who leave the church are spiritually out of sorts, but so is Wilcox. Just look at his frame, his demeanor. He’s weak and fat, he speaks with insincere passion. Pedo vibes.

Are you sure about that?

I think many are. People do leave for multiple reasons. Genuine apostasy and unbelief among them.

Niemand wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2023, 7:03 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:05 am

Blue Marble wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:02 am It’s true that most who leave the church are spiritually out of sorts, but so is Wilcox. Just look at his frame, his demeanor. He’s weak and fat, he speaks with insincere passion. Pedo vibes.

Are you sure about that?

I think many are. People do leave for multiple reasons. Genuine apostasy and unbelief among them.

To be honest, I don’t blame people for leaving or having a literal faith crisis (not just a church crisis). The church has created a system where you are required to place your trust in the arm of flesh and bind yourself to them. You must idolize leaders or you are not worthy to worship among them. A common side effect from awaking to such a situation is removing religion entirely.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2023, 7:06 am

Niemand wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2023, 7:03 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:05 am
Are you sure about that?

I think many are. People do leave for multiple reasons. Genuine apostasy and unbelief among them.

To be honest, I don’t blame people for leaving or having a literal faith crisis (not just a church crisis). The church has created a system where you are required to place your trust in the arm of flesh and bind yourself to them. You must idolize leaders or you are not worthy to worship among them.

I have many siblings and it's very interesting to watch a lot of what you are discussing here happen in real-time. Almost surreal.

I've seen across the whole spectrum of responses from "doubling down" on the belief in the LDS structure, to throwing it out completely. Surprisingly, it's pretty even for those that have left the church between those that have become more spiritual vs those that have thrown "the baby out with the bathwater". Even all 3 of my children are taking very different approaches, but they also have a dad that says things like "You don't need a religious organization for salvation, you just need Jesus!"

Wow!! Talk about a church with an ego!! Since leaving this imprisonment, I have so much more peace, happiness etc. My wife and I pray more than we ever did when we belonged to that jail corporation.

Silver Pie wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 8:11 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 5:25 am This video has been shared before, but I think it’s worth posting again, especially now since I’m contemplating a greater sense of God’s love for all of His children in all religions that teach truth and light. Most religions you can step away from and they’ll often wish you well. (That’s not true for all religions, but many.) I think this is why it’s so hard for members of the church to see their family members leave, due to this type of conditioning and what it means to leave the LDS org. You can’t just leave the church, apparently you lose all connection to God and anything that means anything in the eternities.

God is more loving and kind than the opinions/teachings of this man.

Why is he assuming that a person stepping away from the LDS Church would leave the Book of Mormon behind? And prophets? I know someone I view as a true prophet, and he testifies of Christ, doesn't care if people speak evil of him, and tries to get people to rely on Christ and not himself.

I have not left the Book of Mormon behind. I have not left Joseph Smith behind (in fact, I believe I view him much more clearly than I did when I was a tbm follower of the Brethren). I listen to prophets and messengers who point to Christ (some of those messengers post here; one does not have to be "special" to share the words of Christ).

This the problematic binary thinking of the leadership of the Corporation- assuming anyone who leaves the church rejects everything in the church. This blinds them from attempting any outreach or legitimately addressing different concerns or doctrinal questions people may have. It is similar to what we see on the left- "if you don't agree with me 100%, you are evil." Instead, they are sucking up to the NWO, world leaders, and NGOs that promulgate anti-Christ doctrines instead of building bridges with the people that share their fundamental core beliefs- Christ, BoM, JS, etc. They can't even see their own contradiction!

I spent a lot of time with Brad Wilcox recently. He's a really strange person. He's very gregarious, outgoing, and can be quite funny and kind. But there's an underlying bitterness there too. He's utterly intolerant and dismissive of other religions. In the talk that got him in hot water a while back about blacks and priesthood, he also said that other faiths were "playing religion" like little kids playing house.

One thing he said that I found absurd (and he claimed to be quoting a GA Seventy) was that one way to know if you'd have accepted Jesus if you were alive when he was, is to see how you feel about the LDS temple today. So... if you really love this thing that didn't even exist in Jesus' time, you'd have followed him in Galilee or something.

Anyway, I don't think BW is a bad guy. I think he's a product of the modern corporate LDS cult. He interprets every scripture, every historical landmark, all of Christ's words as if it's all part of the exact same church that we have in Salt Lake City today. RMN and Peter are no different from each other. The New Testament and the Liahona (Ensign) magazine are identical. Etc.

Blue Marble wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 9:02 am It’s true that most who leave the church are spiritually out of sorts, but so is Wilcox. Just look at his frame, his demeanor. He’s weak and fat, he speaks with insincere passion. Pedo vibes.

I agree partly. I saw him speak to elementary children in a school, about masterbation & how he struggled with porn. Makes me wonder how many in GA are chosen partly because of sexual disorders (homosexual manifesto said they’d infiltrate churches, government, schools etc).

All of us are some degree out of spiritual sorts. Depends on how things are interpreted & incorporated. A study found out of 3 groups - those who were most & least involved religiously did worst in terms of physical health. Those who were moderately involved did best.

If God is the god of truth & Satan is the father of lies, & a cult punishes truth-seekers & free speech, then that cult could actually make people more out of sorts spiritually & psychologically. Utah lead the nation in mental illness & Ponzi schemes.



Tillech’s 2nd quote suggests that most have false gods - we prioritize cults, church leaders, being a member in good standing (praises of man) etc., before God. What my real - in practice god is, is not necessarily the actual Highest Creator/Intelligent Design, but rather is what I prioritize most above everything. I can say I worship God until I’m blue in the face, but actions speak louder.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 5:25 am This video has been shared before, but I think it’s worth posting again, especially now since I’m contemplating a greater sense of God’s love for all of His children in all religions that teach truth and light. Most religions you can step away from and they’ll often wish you well. (That’s not true for all religions, but many.) I think this is why it’s so hard for members of the church to see their family members leave, due to this type of conditioning and what it means to leave the LDS org. You can’t just leave the church, apparently you lose all connection to God and anything that means anything in the eternities.

God is more loving and kind than the opinions/teachings of this man.

This is exactly why most people who leave the church leave faith in God completely: because the church promised it. It's devastating and tragic, and in my opinion the greatest offense by the hands of these false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing.

Ado wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 2:00 pm This is exactly why most people who leave the church leave faith in God completely: because the church promised it. It's devastating and tragic, and in my opinion the greatest offense by the hands of these false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing.

Yes, I can see that. When your foundation of faith is set upon the foundation of men who claim to be prophets, and they become exposed in various ways, the person’s faith crumbles because it was not in Christ (either partially or entirely).

Libertas Est Salus wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 8:04 am Oh my heck. The freaking masks! I scrolled down and read and could only see Wilcox's face for a bit. Then I scrolled down and saw the masks. Oh, man. I might have a minor bit of PTSD, cuz I definitely had an emotional reaction when I saw those shamefully masked faces sitting there on the chief seats.

I feel the same way when I see people wearing masks. My blood begins to boil and then I whisper a silent comment regarding the stupidity of people. How is it that so many LDS continue to declare RMN as a PSR when he is no better than a POS for advocating the use of toxic chemicals to cure a disease that does not exist.

Mike

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 5:25 am This video has been shared before, but I think it’s worth posting again, especially now since I’m contemplating a greater sense of God’s love for all of His children in all religions that teach truth and light. Most religions you can step away from and they’ll often wish you well. (That’s not true for all religions, but many.) I think this is why it’s so hard for members of the church to see their family members leave, due to this type of conditioning and what it means to leave the LDS org. You can’t just leave the church, apparently you lose all connection to God and anything that means anything in the eternities.

God is more loving and kind than the opinions/teachings of this man.

But but but he is a GA and will be soon called to the 15 So his word and counsel is golden. Ooops I had two different things I was working on and accidentally posted one thought into this. BW will in all likelihood be called to the 15 very soon. If he isn't, I will be surprised.

He's church broke for sure. He did bring criticism to the church with his idiotic blacks and the priesthood comment. I'm sure that damaged his chances for promotion to some degree.

Yeliab wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 8:59 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 5:25 am This video has been shared before, but I think it’s worth posting again, especially now since I’m contemplating a greater sense of God’s love for all of His children in all religions that teach truth and light. Most religions you can step away from and they’ll often wish you well. (That’s not true for all religions, but many.) I think this is why it’s so hard for members of the church to see their family members leave, due to this type of conditioning and what it means to leave the LDS org. You can’t just leave the church, apparently you lose all connection to God and anything that means anything in the eternities.

God is more loving and kind than the opinions/teachings of this man.

But but but he is a GA and will be soon called to the 15 So his word and counsel is golden. Ooops I had two different things I was working on and accidentally posted one thought into this. BW will in all likelihood be called to the 15 very soon. If he isn't, I will be surprised.

If he is called to the Q15, I’d be shocked. Really. Not to disparage him as a person, but the church seems to follow a specific MO. They like to let the underlings (BW) share the more unsavory aspects to church culture, while they (the higher ups) speak on generalities and platitudes.

The corporation controls the narrative…

To such an extent, it is almost impossible to look beyond the box.

Conduct a search regarding happiness in Christian faiths. You will find almost anyone who believes in any religion is happier. And Buddhism is the happiest followed by Judaism.

Relative happiness has more to do with quality of life and health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6182728/

https://christianeducatorsacademy.com/d ... happiness/

The first link is a comprehensive study of relative happiness.

The second link is a Christian source for becoming happy using your faith.

Dive into the second link and see if you see close parallels to what the CoJCoLDS is doing.


Just saying… LDS church has many neighbors in the faith community.

And for happiness and joy to attend, they don’t have to be run by large bureaucratic organizations, storefront pastors have as much right to inspiration and spiritual guidance from On High for their little flock.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 4:15 pm

Ado wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 2:00 pm This is exactly why most people who leave the church leave faith in God completely: because the church promised it. It's devastating and tragic, and in my opinion the greatest offense by the hands of these false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing.

Yes, I can see that. When your foundation of faith is set upon the foundation of men who claim to be prophets, and they become exposed in various ways, the person’s faith crumbles because it was not in Christ (either partially or entirely).

Agreed.

"Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any. All who fashion idols are nothing, and the things they delight in do not profit. Their witnesses neither see nor know, that they may be put to shame. Who fashions a god or casts an idol that is profitable for nothing? Behold, all his companions shall be put to shame, and the craftsmen are only human." - Isaiah 44:8-11

"Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep." - John 10:7-15

"Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." - John 4:13-14

MikeMaillet wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 8:27 am

Libertas Est Salus wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 8:04 am Oh my heck. The freaking masks! I scrolled down and read and could only see Wilcox's face for a bit. Then I scrolled down and saw the masks. Oh, man. I might have a minor bit of PTSD, cuz I definitely had an emotional reaction when I saw those shamefully masked faces sitting there on the chief seats.

I feel the same way when I see people wearing masks. My blood begins to boil and then I whisper a silent comment regarding the stupidity of people. How is it that so many LDS continue to declare RMN as a PSR when he is no better than a POS for advocating the use of toxic chemicals to cure a disease that does not exist.

Mike

Same here, on the reaction to masked idiots
At least twice a week lately, in stores( even outside)
I go out of my way to get out of the way of such persons
Could be contagious - truly

Ironically the people mocking folk for wearing masks earlh on are now the ones wearing them.

Niemand wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 6:35 am Ironically the people mocking folk for wearing masks earlh on are now the ones wearing them.

Profound statement.

Niemand wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 6:35 am Ironically the people mocking folk for wearing masks earlh on are now the ones wearing them.

I don't get it. It seems to me that the ones wearing masks now were the ones wearing masks before. What am I missing?

This is all so confusing. How about a rousing round of VACCINATE! from the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus to really get the juices flowing?

https://youtu.be/l-Bk7JP7kUY?si=ozTa5AvBtBfUeYe7