LDS Freedom Forum

I really am hoping that God shows a lot of mercy towards everyone who has honestly sought after him and tries to do right, but still gets things wrong sometimes. I see all these different people inside and outside churches who have read, prayed, sought for answers and came to different conclusions based upon their emotions and/or the Spirit. On here people pray about the same thing (example- is polygamy of God) and each genuinely believes they got the right answer and they are all different and can't all be true.
So, my question is...how do we truly know that the witness we receive is from God or a deceiving spirit? We say look to the fruits. I see amazing fruits in many who are in and out of the LDS church. We can say our answer was right, but they are deceived. But how do we know we're right? It is so hard to trust the answers given. Go to a testimony meeting outside the LDS church and hear about how they knew by the spirit that it is true. They feel like it's home. They are happier, marriage is better, closer to God and Christ, etc.
I try my best to follow the Savior, show love and kindness, be honest, help the needy. My testimony of Christ and His love and grace and of miracles has never been stronger, but my testimony in what I was taught about the leaders, their never leading us astray, the church being the one true church, etc. is in question.
How do we know? This life we are told determines everything, yet it is so hard to figure it out. People in other faiths die for their religion bcause they believe so strongly; it isn't exclusive to Mormons.
Is it so hard to really know that he gives us a lot of mercy when we die?

He has to show mercy. We are all born into idolatry and most never find their way out of it.

There are many gods. The entity each person speaks to is not always the most high or jeshua. It is more personal

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:19 am I really am hoping that God shows a lot of mercy towards everyone who has honestly sought after him and tries to do right, but still gets things wrong sometimes. I see all these different people inside and outside churches who have read, prayed, sought for answers and came to different conclusions based upon their emotions and/or the Spirit. On here people pray about the same thing (example- is polygamy of God) and each genuinely believes they got the right answer and they are all different and can't all be true.
So, my question is...how do we truly know that the witness we receive is from God or a deceiving spirit? We say look to the fruits. I see amazing fruits in many who are in and out of the LDS church. We can say our answer was right, but they are deceived. But how do we know we're right? It is so hard to trust the answers given. Go to a testimony meeting outside the LDS church and hear about how they knew by the spirit that it is true. They feel like it's home. They are happier, marriage is better, closer to God and Christ, etc.
I try my best to follow the Savior, show love and kindness, be honest, help the needy. My testimony of Christ and His love and grace and of miracles has never been stronger, but my testimony in what I was taught about the leaders, their never leading us astray, the church being the one true church, etc. is in question.
How do we know? This life we are told determines everything, yet it is so hard to figure it out. People in other faiths die for their religion bcause they believe so strongly; it isn't exclusive to Mormons.
Is it so hard to really know that he gives us a lot of mercy when we die?

Good post.
Maybe as you have, it may be good to maintain a humble sense that we may not always KNOW, & that we have more to learn.

I had a related lesson when I mixed up my desire/emotion-based-added interpretation to feeling the Spirit. Feeling the Spirit usually doesn’t come with a detailed manual of instruction - we tend to add that & assume it’s all from the Spirit. So basically some common sense and integrity go a long way.

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:19 am I try my best to follow the Savior, show love and kindness, be honest, help the needy. My testimony of Christ and His love and grace and of miracles has never been stronger, but my testimony in what I was taught about the leaders, their never leading us astray, the church being the one true church, etc. is in question.

How do we know? This life we are told determines everything, yet it is so hard to figure it out. People in other faiths die for their religion because they believe so strongly; it isn't exclusive to Mormons.

Is it so hard to really know that he gives us a lot of mercy when we die?

The OP has some great questions. I segmented out two comments above.

1) It is my belief that a person should come to the conclusion that Christ taught that all men can lead you astray. If they don't believe this, they have become blinded by the philosophies of men. Or, more commonly, they have created a group-think faith or theology. This is based on the Association Fallacy. Since A is true, then B, C, D, E... is also true. This idea has been brow-beaten over the saints for generations.

2) The life question is really, really important. If you were to sit back and spend some quality time with God, do you think He would condemn you for eternity based upon a supposed "test" where the majority of His children were never given the study guide? And where all memories were withheld of your past progression?

I really liked what Vinny Tolman said in a recent interview. He said that the love of God was so strong in heaven that it was impossible for us to make a wrong decision. The love of God was so overwhelming that we could not make a decision other than what God wanted. Mortality afforded us the opportunity to use our agency as a school of learning. It is not a final courtroom of pass or fail (aka final judgment). It took great effort (or the greatest love of God) to create space for us to progress in mortality. That's how important this life is, and how much God loves us.

As far the the overarching theme, yes, this is quite the elusive question. But, in the end, each person needs to learn and grow through their own interactions with the divine. After having been "all in" for the church, and now stepping back, I can see how feelings and emotions can be manipulated. Tears and emotions can be fabricated. Heartsell is real. People can be fake or present a facade (aka not authentic). But that also doesn't man that emotions and feelings are unimportant. As noted previously, heart and mind are both vital to discernment.

The other difficulty we have is discerning lies and half-truths. So many times a truth is shared by a leader and members do, in a very real and intimate sense, feel the Spirit. But, what is difficult to determine is a falsehood or half-truth that often comes right on the heels of that. Nothing is as black and white as I used to believe.

I'm in total agreement with this (and just about everything else, R.W.!) :

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 18th, 2023, 11:08 am If you were to sit back and spend some quality time with God, do you think He would condemn you for eternity based upon a supposed "test" where the majority of His children were never given the study guide? And where all memories were withheld of your past progression?

good topic.

I've thought for a long time now that there are many who stand up in F&T and say "I KNOW" when what they really mean is "I BELIEVE", but due to our CULTURE of saying "I KNOW", nobody wants to embarrass themselves.

At this point in my life (halfway), I'm inclined to think that saying "I KNOW" means you've had a very strong heavenly witness - Angels, very strong administration of H.G.(1), or a visit from Christ Himself. Barring one of those three, I think the proper statement would have to stop at "I BELIEVE".

Within the same person will have to exist some knowledge and some beliefs - meaning, nobody knows everything - some things are just beliefs.

(1) I'm not talking warm fuzzies or burning in the bosom. More like the shock that hit Laman and Lemuel. or something on that level. which then negates probably 90% of the Mormon "I know" statements.

I mean, I'm not going to share MY very personal and sacred experiences in a public setting like this - I've only shared one of my sacred experience with my mission president, a few of the young men in one ward, and my wife. Probably my own mother doesn't even know. But it's enough for me to say that I KNOW Jesus is The Christ. Beyond that, we should love each other and not judge.

But I do believe, at this point, that it's possible that not everyone gets that testimony of Jesus while in mortality. And that they can or will still be "saved" and receive a kingdom of glory. I don't think anyone who sincerely tries to believe (without knowing) that Christ is our Savior will be shut out in the end.

the N.T. is full of phrases and stories about "the believers", and how that is perfectly acceptable. Got to be something to that - otherwise, why didn't they just call them "knowers"?

Anyway, loving and not judging will get you very far - I think that is a key lesson to learn here.

I think those two things are probably enough.

Thinker wrote: ↑September 18th, 2023, 10:25 am

viewtopic.php?p=947754&hilit=notification#p947754

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑July 15th, 2019, 2:03 am

Amonhi wrote: ↑July 14th, 2019, 11:25 pm
What did you find?

Peace,
Amonhi

This notification just showed up as well. I have found and been shown far more than I can post here. But just to list a few. I was shown by God in 1979 that we are spirit and mind and that we are not our soul or body. This agrees with the King Follett Discourse. I was shown that our soul is what connects our spirit to our body. That neither our soul or our body will survive the end of this creation. That is why a seed grows within us in this life. It is that seed that becomes the connection between our spirit and our new body in the new creation. I was shown that the correct order in time sequence of the 7 seals is 7=>1. I was shown that there is a secondary prophecy within the 7 seals that run 1=>5. This secondary prophecy is totally unheard of. After the resurrection of the dead Nebuchadnezzar becomes the rider on the white horse and is the first king of the 4 kingdoms that will be on the new earth. The man of sin comes from the 4th kingdom and he is the pale horse rider. Jesus is the King of kings but Neb is a king of kings. That is why he can ride a white horse. Jesus sets up the 5th kingdom. I would have to write a book just to cover what I told you here. And there is so much more than this. Maybe, look at some of my post?

--we are spirit and mind-- Yeah --what about--

--and that we are not our soul or body. This agrees with the King Follett Discourse. I was shown that our soul is what connects our spirit to our body. That neither our soul or our body will survive the end of this creation. That is why a seed grows within us in this life--

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:19 am I really am hoping that God shows a lot of mercy towards everyone who has honestly sought after him and tries to do right, but still gets things wrong sometimes. I see all these different people inside and outside churches who have read, prayed, sought for answers and came to different conclusions based upon their emotions and/or the Spirit. On here people pray about the same thing (example- is polygamy of God) and each genuinely believes they got the right answer and they are all different and can't all be true.
So, my question is...how do we truly know that the witness we receive is from God or a deceiving spirit? We say look to the fruits. I see amazing fruits in many who are in and out of the LDS church. We can say our answer was right, but they are deceived. But how do we know we're right? It is so hard to trust the answers given. Go to a testimony meeting outside the LDS church and hear about how they knew by the spirit that it is true. They feel like it's home. They are happier, marriage is better, closer to God and Christ, etc.
I try my best to follow the Savior, show love and kindness, be honest, help the needy. My testimony of Christ and His love and grace and of miracles has never been stronger, but my testimony in what I was taught about the leaders, their never leading us astray, the church being the one true church, etc. is in question.
How do we know? This life we are told determines everything, yet it is so hard to figure it out. People in other faiths die for their religion bcause they believe so strongly; it isn't exclusive to Mormons.
Is it so hard to really know that he gives us a lot of mercy when we die?

This is a good question. I think one of the key answers is in Joseph's teachings:
"I will inform you that it is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instructions for those in authority, higher than themselves; therefore you will see the impropriety of giving heed to them; but if any person have a vision or a visitation from a heavenly messenger, it must be for his own benefit and instruction; for the fundamental principles, government, and doctrine of the Church are vested in the keys of the kingdom. . . And again we never inquire at the hand of God for special revelation only in case of there being no previous revelation to suit the case; and that in a council of High Priests.
History of Church Vol. 1:338-339

Why do we constantly seek revelatory answers to questions God already answered in scripture?
Or revelation on things above our pay grade?

I think that's one reason for the mix of "answers". God doesn't need to repeat himself constantly. If I have a testimony of Joseph and the restored gospel then that's where I should look first for revelation. God gave me that testimony and it's up to me to use it to answer my questions.

JLHPROF wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 1:44 pm

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:19 am I really am hoping that God shows a lot of mercy towards everyone who has honestly sought after him and tries to do right, but still gets things wrong sometimes. I see all these different people inside and outside churches who have read, prayed, sought for answers and came to different conclusions based upon their emotions and/or the Spirit. On here people pray about the same thing (example- is polygamy of God) and each genuinely believes they got the right answer and they are all different and can't all be true.
So, my question is...how do we truly know that the witness we receive is from God or a deceiving spirit? We say look to the fruits. I see amazing fruits in many who are in and out of the LDS church. We can say our answer was right, but they are deceived. But how do we know we're right? It is so hard to trust the answers given. Go to a testimony meeting outside the LDS church and hear about how they knew by the spirit that it is true. They feel like it's home. They are happier, marriage is better, closer to God and Christ, etc.
I try my best to follow the Savior, show love and kindness, be honest, help the needy. My testimony of Christ and His love and grace and of miracles has never been stronger, but my testimony in what I was taught about the leaders, their never leading us astray, the church being the one true church, etc. is in question.
How do we know? This life we are told determines everything, yet it is so hard to figure it out. People in other faiths die for their religion bcause they believe so strongly; it isn't exclusive to Mormons.
Is it so hard to really know that he gives us a lot of mercy when we die?

This is a good question. I think one of the key answers is in Joseph's teachings:
"I will inform you that it is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instructions for those in authority, higher than themselves; therefore you will see the impropriety of giving heed to them; but if any person have a vision or a visitation from a heavenly messenger, it must be for his own benefit and instruction; for the fundamental principles, government, and doctrine of the Church are vested in the keys of the kingdom. . . And again we never inquire at the hand of God for special revelation only in case of there being no previous revelation to suit the case; and that in a council of High Priests.
History of Church Vol. 1:338-339

Why do we constantly seek revelatory answers to questions God already answered in scripture?
Or revelation on things above our pay grade?

I think that's one reason for the mix of "answers". God doesn't need to repeat himself constantly. If I have a testimony of Joseph and the restored gospel then that's where I should look first for revelation. God gave me that testimony and it's up to me to use it to answer my questions.

I think it's a little more complicated than that. Maybe Joseph restored the Church and it fell back into a limited apostasy. Maybe it's now in a general apostasy. There are many scriptures which prophecy of this. If this is the case, which I am certain it is, then perhaps each individual needs revelation about what they are to do.

If you believe that the priesthood won't be taken from the earth again, then perhaps we are to still attend Church, if possible. But maybe not. I don't see how anyone could possibly know what to do unless God clearly tells them. And I'm not talking a warm fuzzy. I'm talking vision/angel/miraculous liahona or something like that.

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:19 am How do we know? This life we are told determines everything, yet it is so hard to figure it out. People in other faiths die for their religion bcause they believe so strongly; it isn't exclusive to Mormons.

I dont think that this human life determines everything for an individual because in the spirit world we continue to grow and have opportunities to learn of jesus and his gospel,

I do however believe that this human life is where everything needs to be preformed.
That is why the temple is so important, baptisms for the dead who did not get a chance on earth but are being taught in the spirit world.

for example, I was born and raised in the church, served a mission, temple married. God showed me that in all my imprefections as a husband, father, friend, son, etc...my intent to return to him in the celestial kingdom along with all the fulfilled requirements as outlined in the gospel through JS (baptism/priesthood/temple marriage) was enough to make it, and I was on the right track.

15 yrs into my marriage we divorced, she left the church, I still had a testimony but went inactive myself. Stopped going to church, stopped the sacremant, no tithing, didnt renew my temple recommend, even started breaking the law of chastity due to me and her still living together raising our kids. 6yrs of living like this I became comfortable and was really happy (we even ended up having our first boy born Feb of 2023 and who is now 7 months old), but I had that little small voice in my head telling me to go back to church, It was bothering me and I was in conflict. I finally cried out to the lord and said, WHY? Why am I in conflict? I just want to be happy.

He reminded me of the vision he gave me of the celestial kingdom and its glory and then showed me the terrestial kingdom and said....If you are truly happy in your current situation then I am hapy for you and I still love you but it is of a terrestial glory, your actions and desires are no longer of my celestial glory.

In a split second I said, NOPE! sorry Lord! that terrestial glory is not for me. The next day I told my ex we are not breaking the LOC anymore and Im going back to church.
The celestial glory was like winning 100 trillion dollars (unimaginable wealth or unimagineable love and light)
The terrestail glory was like winning 100 dollars (enough to get by)

You can see why it wasnt hard to tell my ex that im going back to church and gonna work to get my TR back.

Its been one year of returning to church, i met with bishop and then met with stkpres, we are pending our formal membership council with stkpres where I think I will have my records removed and then I need to get rebaptised.

If for some reason I pass away before getting rebaptized am i doomed to the terrestial kingdom? my intent to get baptized will still be with me in the spirit world and I will desire a human on earth to perform a proxy baptism for me and eventually a temple marriage, if any kind woman would want to go on that journey with me.

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:19 am I really am hoping that God shows a lot of mercy towards everyone who has honestly sought after him and tries to do right, but still gets things wrong sometimes. I see all these different people inside and outside churches who have read, prayed, sought for answers and came to different conclusions based upon their emotions and/or the Spirit. On here people pray about the same thing (example- is polygamy of God) and each genuinely believes they got the right answer and they are all different and can't all be true.
So, my question is...how do we truly know that the witness we receive is from God or a deceiving spirit? We say look to the fruits. I see amazing fruits in many who are in and out of the LDS church. We can say our answer was right, but they are deceived. But how do we know we're right? It is so hard to trust the answers given. Go to a testimony meeting outside the LDS church and hear about how they knew by the spirit that it is true. They feel like it's home. They are happier, marriage is better, closer to God and Christ, etc.
I try my best to follow the Savior, show love and kindness, be honest, help the needy. My testimony of Christ and His love and grace and of miracles has never been stronger, but my testimony in what I was taught about the leaders, their never leading us astray, the church being the one true church, etc. is in question.
How do we know? This life we are told determines everything, yet it is so hard to figure it out. People in other faiths die for their religion bcause they believe so strongly; it isn't exclusive to Mormons.
Is it so hard to really know that he gives us a lot of mercy when we die?

Here is the answer to the main part of what you are asking, the Holy Ghost will bear witness of the Father and the Son to earnest, honest seekers of the truth both inside and outside of the True Church, that's what he does, bear witness of truth, and comfort, and if we allow him, refine and continue to bear witness to all major truth. If people are not careful they can feel vindicated, and comfortable with that witness and not be concerned enough with continuing to receive more light and knowledge. The Lord is vitally interested in us desiring to know who he is. But he is also vitally interested in us preparing and helping others to prepare to enter his presence, and be ready and able to have us ready to dwell in his presence forever.

The Lord is merciful and has unconditional love for each of us. Because our testing must be what it is, we can sometimes forget that. We get glimpses of it, but as Paul said, we until the Lord fully reveals himself to us, see as though through glass darkly. I have received my share of special experiences and I bear witness of them. I don't tell all I know, as I believe in certain times and places is proper. I hope we will still receive more while in this mortal live. They are a gift in what can sometimes feel like a sea of chaos and trouble. Never the less spiritual gifts can be real and intelligence and love, and reassurance will be given in experiencing them.

Atrasado wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 4:03 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 1:44 pm

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:19 am I really am hoping that God shows a lot of mercy towards everyone who has honestly sought after him and tries to do right, but still gets things wrong sometimes. I see all these different people inside and outside churches who have read, prayed, sought for answers and came to different conclusions based upon their emotions and/or the Spirit. On here people pray about the same thing (example- is polygamy of God) and each genuinely believes they got the right answer and they are all different and can't all be true.
So, my question is...how do we truly know that the witness we receive is from God or a deceiving spirit? We say look to the fruits. I see amazing fruits in many who are in and out of the LDS church. We can say our answer was right, but they are deceived. But how do we know we're right? It is so hard to trust the answers given. Go to a testimony meeting outside the LDS church and hear about how they knew by the spirit that it is true. They feel like it's home. They are happier, marriage is better, closer to God and Christ, etc.
I try my best to follow the Savior, show love and kindness, be honest, help the needy. My testimony of Christ and His love and grace and of miracles has never been stronger, but my testimony in what I was taught about the leaders, their never leading us astray, the church being the one true church, etc. is in question.
How do we know? This life we are told determines everything, yet it is so hard to figure it out. People in other faiths die for their religion bcause they believe so strongly; it isn't exclusive to Mormons.
Is it so hard to really know that he gives us a lot of mercy when we die?

This is a good question. I think one of the key answers is in Joseph's teachings:
"I will inform you that it is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instructions for those in authority, higher than themselves; therefore you will see the impropriety of giving heed to them; but if any person have a vision or a visitation from a heavenly messenger, it must be for his own benefit and instruction; for the fundamental principles, government, and doctrine of the Church are vested in the keys of the kingdom. . . And again we never inquire at the hand of God for special revelation only in case of there being no previous revelation to suit the case; and that in a council of High Priests.
History of Church Vol. 1:338-339

Why do we constantly seek revelatory answers to questions God already answered in scripture?
Or revelation on things above our pay grade?

I think that's one reason for the mix of "answers". God doesn't need to repeat himself constantly. If I have a testimony of Joseph and the restored gospel then that's where I should look first for revelation. God gave me that testimony and it's up to me to use it to answer my questions.

I think it's a little more complicated than that. Maybe Joseph restored the Church and it fell back into a limited apostasy. Maybe it's now in a general apostasy. There are many scriptures which prophecy of this. If this is the case, which I am certain it is, then perhaps each individual needs revelation about what they are to do.

If you believe that the priesthood won't be taken from the earth again, then perhaps we are to still attend Church, if possible. But maybe not. I don't see how anyone could possibly know what to do unless God clearly tells them. And I'm not talking a warm fuzzy. I'm talking vision/angel/miraculous liahona or something like that.

My response had nothing to do with personal direction in our lives.

But if I have a testimony that Joseph was a prophet of God and His mouthpiece and that the scriptures he revealed are true then there are many doctrinal questions I shouldn't expect an answer to. If God already gave the answer we don't need to pray about it.
I don't need to pray about whether I should baptize my 5 year old, I don't need to pray to learn my duties as an Elder or High Priest, I don't need to pray about whether I pay tithing (although I may need to pray about some individual aspect).
When we can read God's word on the subject and we keep asking we shouldn't be surprised to get an alternate response from an alternate spirit.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 7:58 pm
Here is the answer to the main part of what you are asking, the Holy Ghost will bear witness of the Father and the Son to earnest, honest seekers of the truth both inside and outside of the True Church…

I’m assuming by this statement you believe there is only one true church.

I think God is much more loving than religion and churches.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:36 pm

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 7:58 pm
Here is the answer to the main part of what you are asking, the Holy Ghost will bear witness of the Father and the Son to earnest, honest seekers of the truth both inside and outside of the True Church…

I’m assuming by this statement you believe there is only one true church.

I think God is much more loving than religion and churches.

False dichotomy.
God can and does love and work with people of all faiths. Doesn't mean he doesn't have a specific Church or religion on the earth.

JLHPROF wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:44 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:36 pm

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 7:58 pm
Here is the answer to the main part of what you are asking, the Holy Ghost will bear witness of the Father and the Son to earnest, honest seekers of the truth both inside and outside of the True Church…

I’m assuming by this statement you believe there is only one true church.

I think God is much more loving than religion and churches.

False dichotomy.
God can and does love and work with people of all faiths. Doesn't mean he doesn't have a specific Church or religion on the earth.

God is bigger and more loving than religion. God’s “religion” is based on truth, which can be found in any and all religions that bring you closer to God. And yes, some have more truth and correct principles than other. But what does it say of a religion that teaches against Christ’s teachings on some very important doctrines/principles? The LDS org does this often.

And… I might add, any religion that says they are the ONLY religion chosen by God, and that you can ONLY fully come unto the Savior through that religion, is the very religion that will slow your progression in heaven.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:48 pm

JLHPROF wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:44 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:36 pm

I’m assuming by this statement you believe there is only one true church.

I think God is much more loving than religion and churches.

False dichotomy.
God can and does love and work with people of all faiths. Doesn't mean he doesn't have a specific Church or religion on the earth.

God is bigger and more loving than religion. God’s “religion” is based on truth, which can be found in any and all religions that bring you closer to God. And yes, some have more truth and correct principles than other. But what does it say of a religion that teaches against Christ’s teachings on some very important doctrines/principles? The LDS org does this often.

And… I might add, any religion that says they are the ONLY religion chosen by God, and that you can ONLY fully come unto the Savior through that religion, is the very religion that will slow your progression in heaven.

I dont subscribe to any religion, I have found the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and try to practice it as best I can.

JLHPROF wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:44 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:36 pm

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 7:58 pm
Here is the answer to the main part of what you are asking, the Holy Ghost will bear witness of the Father and the Son to earnest, honest seekers of the truth both inside and outside of the True Church…

I’m assuming by this statement you believe there is only one true church.

I think God is much more loving than religion and churches.

False dichotomy.
God can and does love and work with people of all faiths. Doesn't mean he doesn't have a specific Church or religion on the earth.

Why would He tho? Why would an all-seeing God, Creator of the Universe, timeless and deathless, who sees your soul with the effortless clarity of looking through a window, need you to do certain rituals in certain places?

He knows your heart. He can measure your worth to the finest grain. What more does he need?

NeveR wrote: ↑September 21st, 2023, 1:24 am

JLHPROF wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:44 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 8:36 pm

I’m assuming by this statement you believe there is only one true church.

I think God is much more loving than religion and churches.

False dichotomy.
God can and does love and work with people of all faiths. Doesn't mean he doesn't have a specific Church or religion on the earth.

Why would He tho? Why would an all-seeing God, Creator of the Universe, timeless and deathless, who sees your soul with the effortless clarity of looking through a window, need you to do certain rituals in certain places?

He knows your heart. He can measure your worth to the finest grain. What more does he need?

well, for one thing, there are many references to Jesus saying Baptism is essential to enter the Kingdom - throughout the Bible, BOM, D&C, and PoGP. If He can just measure your worth, why does He also need you to get baptized?

And also, why create an Earth:

Abraham 3:24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

... if he could have just measured our worth in the Pre-Earth realm - why bother with the mess of an earthly existence?

mudflap wrote: ↑September 18th, 2023, 12:01 pm

I mean, I'm not going to share MY very personal and sacred experiences in a public setting like this - I've only shared one of my sacred experience with my mission president, a few of the young men in one ward, and my wife. Probably my own mother doesn't even know. But it's enough for me to say that I KNOW Jesus is The Christ.

please share your experiences, it is actually safer in an anonymous public setting because u have zero chance of hurting ur real life reputation.

people need to hear ur story so we can continue to analyze and learn. there r many passerbys in this forum that may just find ur story and be inspired, there is no telling when the spirit will lead someone to find your story.

i have several sacred experiences in my lifetime and i freely share in this forum at every chance i get...do u wanna know how many times i shared these storys face to face with others? my mom, my ex wife, my stk pres and last week a cousin i didnt see for 8 yrs and randomly ran in to him and the spirit told me to testify to him with my story. what a shame that the spirit only pushed me to share with only 4 people my miracoulous storys about God, but in a forum hopefully hundreds will read it and hopefully the spirit will testify to 100% of them that my experience is true

please share freely, there is so much anti posts, we need all the pro god posts we can get.

randyps wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2023, 1:50 am

mudflap wrote: ↑September 18th, 2023, 12:01 pm

I mean, I'm not going to share MY very personal and sacred experiences in a public setting like this - I've only shared one of my sacred experience with my mission president, a few of the young men in one ward, and my wife. Probably my own mother doesn't even know. But it's enough for me to say that I KNOW Jesus is The Christ.

please share your experiences, it is actually safer in an anonymous public setting because u have zero chance of hurting ur real life reputation.

people need to hear ur story so we can continue to analyze and learn. there r many passerbys in this forum that may just find ur story and be inspired, there is no telling when the spirit will lead someone to find your story.

i have several sacred experiences in my lifetime and i freely share in this forum at every chance i get...do u wanna know how many times i shared these storys face to face with others? my mom, my ex wife, my stk pres and last week a cousin i didnt see for 8 yrs and randomly ran in to him and the spirit told me to testify to him with my story. what a shame that the spirit only pushed me to share with only 4 people my miracoulous storys about God, but in a forum hopefully hundreds will read it and hopefully the spirit will testify to 100% of them that my experience is true

please share freely, there is so much anti posts, we need all the pro god posts we can get.

Like I said, just a handful of folks know, and only because I prayed about it and felt like I could share it.

randyps wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 10:17 pm I dont subscribe to any religion, I have found the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and try to practice it as best I can.

I respect your position. Because of my life experiences, I can identify with this position. It seems, however, that you still tend to defend the LDS Church (corporation). Maybe I have reached an improper conclusion. I don't understand how you "don't subscribe to any religion" but still want to be rebaptized into the LDS Church. Membership in an organization isn't as important as practicing the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as you have indicated that you are doing.

I can understand defending the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I also still attend Sacrament Meeting because I have been directed to do so by the Lord. At least until they initiate gay sealings in the temple. I see the LDS false teachings which have crept in. I see the pandering to leftist organizations and the obvious movement to liberalism in the church. The Church I joined over 60 years ago has left me behind. They have changed too many of the teachings which they espoused. I have a hard time proudly proclaiming to be an LDS member.

Our Baptist surgeon said he would love to talk about what we thought the afterlife would be like and asked which religion we belong to. I had to tell him I was LDS but I don't adhere to a lot of their teachings. We haven't got together yet. I would have to tell him what I believe which is not how the LDS brethren teach it.

I believe the 3 degrees of glory are attained in stages. I believe that it will be attained by MANY mortal probations which will allow us to get there eventually. Each probation lets us learn more and use a body to gain new skills. We only improve, though, with a mortal body and having a vail placed over us, meaning placed over our spirit self so we don't remember what we have learned in our previous existences. Our spirit (the holy ghost) retains the knowledge of what we have accomplished and learned before and can lead us as to what we are here to accomplish in this mortal round if we learn how to get that close connection with our spirit.

TPJS, P 396-397
"Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power."

Wilford Woodruff
Joseph the Seer taught the following principle that the God & father of our Lord Jesus Christ was once the same as the Son or Holy Ghost but having redeemed a world he had a son Jesus Christ who redeemed this earth the same as his father had a world which made them equal & the Holy Ghost would to the same when in his turn & so would all the Saints who inherited a Celestial glory so their would be Gods many & Lords many their were many mansions even 12 from the abode of Devils to the Celestial glory. ~ Wilford Woodruff, Book of Revelations.

Heber C. Kimball
"Joseph always told us that we would have to pass by the sentinels that are placed between us and our Father and God. Then, of course, we are conducted along from this probation to other probations, or from this dispensation to another, by those who conducted those dispensations." -- p. 62 (JD 6:63).
"What I do not today, when the sun goes down, I lay down to sleep, which is typical of death; and in the morning I rise and commence my work where I left it yesterday. That course is typical of the probations we take." -- p. 62 (JD 4:329).

"8 June 1889: During our talks he [Lorenzo Snow] told me that his sister, the late Eliza R. Snow Smith was a firm believer in the principle of reincarnation and that she claimed to have received it from Joseph the Prophet, her husband. He [Lorenzo] said he saw nothing unreasonable in it, and could believe it, if it came to him from the Lord or his oracle." (Orson F. Whitney's Journal, 8 June 1889)

The following quote was give by Spencer W. Kimball, fireside address delivered in San Antonio, Texas, 3 Dec. 1977, 24–26 Chapter 29: The Importance of the Family https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of ... ng=eng#p32
Prophet Brigham Young: “‘Let me here say a word to console the feelings and hearts of all who belong to this Church. Many of the sisters grieve because they are not blessed with offspring. You will see the time when you will have millions of children around you. If you are faithful to your covenants, you will be mothers of nations. You will become Eves to earths like this, and when you have assisted in peopling one earth, there are millions of others still in the course of creation. And when they have endured a thousand million times longer than this earth, it is only as it were at the beginning of your creation. Be faithful and if you are not blessed with children in this time, you will be hereafter.’ (Deseret News, Vol. 10, p. 306, October 14, 1860.)

From a lecture prepared and delivered by the Apostle Joseph E. Taylor, in the Logan Temple, June 2, 1888, he said:
“All that Father Adam did upon this earth, from the time that he took up his abode in the Garden of Eden, was done for His posterity’s sake and the success of His former mission as the Savior of a world, and afterwards, or now, as the Father of a world only added to the glory which he already possessed. If, as the Savior of a world, he had the power to lay down his life and take it up again, therefore as the Father of a world which is altogether an advanced condition, we necessarily conclude that the grave was powerless to hold him after that mission was completed.” (Des. Weekly, Dec. 29, 1888)

“And thus, all the different portions of the earth have been and will be disposed of to the lawful heirs; while those who cannot prove their heirship to be legal, or who cannot prove that they have received any portion of the earth by promise, will be cast out into some other kingdom or world, where, if they ever get an inheritance, they will have to earn it by keeping the law of meekness during another probation.” (Orson Pratt, JD 1:332-333)

Early church leaders seem to have been aware of this understanding of how we progress towards being like our Heavenly Father through multiple probations. Recent leaders, for many decades, seem to have lost this knowledge or they choose not to share it with us.

However, the scriptures are correct when they state that this life is the time to prepare to meet God. What we do in this life should be our primary concern. We can progress up or down depending on our choices. What we are to do in our next probations depends on how much knowledge and progress we make in this life.

Look at this way. To everyone who is asking: make a list of all the things that you question or are unsure about. Then determine whether or not knowing the answer will bring you closer to Jesus Christ or persuade you to become more like Him. I have found much more peace in discarding questions that have no relevance in strengthening my relationship with Him. If having one spouse is not enabling you to be more Christlike, for example, how will having two or ten enable you to be more like Jesus? For that matter, HOW are you being Christlike toward your spouse right now? Is everything that you do in your life for your spouse's benefit and to enable your spouse to draw nearer to Him or to be more like Him? Soon, you will see just how trivial all the trivial questions you have really are. And you might even start to ask the really important questions that matter very seriously right now.