Kirton McKonkie Goes Gestapo

[BringerOfJoy]

..
Anyhow, for everyone of these couples who are vocal, how many just walk away?
...

That's what I did. In the middle of a move. I was very active in one ward in one state, and then moved to another where I was completely inactive. I imagine it confused church leaders on both sides of the move, because the bishop called our former ward and the bishop there told him that we (my husband remains active) were his "go-to" couple when he had a tough assignment (yeah, that was the case) and the new bishop had never seen my face at church.

[Shawn Henry]

If I were to count the friends and people I know who have simply stepped away, the number would be... golly, probably in the 70-90 range.

RW, I love you, but no one has said golly in over 50 years.

If you do use it, it has to be in right context. "Well, golly Mary Elizabeth, we best be runnin' down to the Ma and Pa store to buy some twine so we can wrangle up some vittles for eatin'."

[BringerOfJoy]

If I were to count the friends and people I know who have simply stepped away, the number would be... golly, probably in the 70-90 range.

RW, I love you, but no one has said golly in over 50 years.

If you do use it, it has to be in right context. "Well, golly Mary Elizabeth, we best be runnin' down to the Ma and Pa store to buy some twine so we can wrangle up some vittles for eatin'."

That's funny but, when I thought about it, you are right. No one says that anymore.

[Reluctant Watchman]

RW, I love you, but no one has said golly in over 50 years.

Don't you worry your pertty little head, it's coming back into style... "Get Jolly, by Golly..."

Video posted 29 minutes ago.

[Shawn Henry]

You found that quick my friend!

[Reluctant Watchman]

You found that quick my friend!

Google search "golly" > tools > filter by date > past hour

[TwochurchesOnly]

...Do you think those @$_-$&* in SLC would like to know who we are on this board? I'm pretty sure they would. I'm surprised I haven't been excommunicated already given how easy it would be to figure out who I am.
...

Oh, if they want to know, they know. I had an acquaintance that was excommunicated. When they initially called him in, they have a reams of paper there of every post he had made on this forum that troubled them. He only used his first name here as his handle--a very common name among in his age range--but once he had also revealed his whole name.

When my daughter was exed, they had print outs from her blog where she never put up her name at that time, but she HAD linked to her blog from her Facebook page a couple of times.

They can all GTH

[TwochurchesOnly]

Is there a certain time segment of the video that is relevant to your conversation, or will I have to watch the whole thing?

I summarized it for you. There are many parts that are relevant. Do you want me to watch the whole thing again and pick them out? Seriously? Or are you just messing with me because you know I'm tired from watching that last night?

No need to do that. Sometimes videos like these have 3 or 4 segments with unrelated topics...i just wanted the fastest route (timestamp) to the relevant portion. But if it's relevant throughout, I'll just watch it in its entirety this weekend.

It long - but worthwhile IMO
To get a full picture

[Chip]

So I guess fast and testimony meetings will have to be ended, right? Why have them, if they're just going to stop you from giving your testimony?

Maybe a "worthiness" interview will have to be conducted prior to people being given a sacrament talk assignment?

Yes, we need "testimony recommends" now. Tight controls on what can be said. They could follow the example of the Zoramites and their rameumpton. Nothing like likening the scriptures to ourselves and leveraging their examples.

[Chip]

Katie is awesome! She knows the Lord Jesus and is unafraid of how she is perceived by the world. Thanks for sharing Chip!!

Chip has been posting katie vids for weeks. Is this the first time you saw it? Was it after you spoke your truth to lds stake leaders?

I’ve been watching her for a few weeks now. Funny how God uses the weak and the simple but how so many have come to expect strong and
powerful people as “leaders”.
The weak and simple know they need God. The rich and powerful seem to believe they just need more money and the right connections thereby leaving God out of the picture.
Really they kind of become a god unto themselves in their little man made kingdoms.
Katie is great- there is just truth and love.

What is so fun about Katie is that she speaks without any pretense and has kind of a juvenile personality. God told her to drop out of school and quit her job, so He could spend more time with her. She is absolute Pharisee REPELLENT. No way they could take ANY stock in her. It's just beautiful! Meanwhile, she gushes wonderful things about God and us at a rate that is equivalent to a decade of General Conference every 10 seconds, and she can go on for HOURS like this, because she is in touch with Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit. It is making sense to me that God's kingdom is a total INVERSION of our worldly sensibilities. So cooll!!!

[Reluctant Watchman]

This thread has been a bit of an echo chamber. Can any of you on the forum who believe “the church is true” and that you have “living prophets”, and bonafide “PSRs”, justify this type of behavior from the church and their legal team?

[Chip]

This thread has been a bit of an echo chamber. Can any of you on the forum who believe “the church is true” and that you have “living prophets”, and bonafide “PSRs”, justify this type of behavior from the church and their legal team?

They have all woken up, left, or laid down in sorrow.

[Ymarsakar]

Some did not like my term gaystapo used to refer to avtivism in 2014 ish

[Reluctant Watchman]

Mitja’s wife made a great point. When the Bishop/counselor shut off the mic, they instilled fear into the hearts of all of the members sitting in the chapel. Those actions told everyone that you don’t ask questions. Asking questions and expressing beliefs that contradict those of a leader will get you in trouble.

[Thinker]

... I've never seen anyone have the mic shut off, and I've desperately wanted it shut off before.

Thanks - needed that laugh!

[Thinker]

Are we so weak in our testimonies and faith that we have to treat someone like this? It's appalling to me, at least. I have personally seen child molesters treated with much more dignity and respect by their stake leadership.

Exactly. When people have false gods that are significantly composed of evil, you have insane double standards. Mormon CULT “leaders” (who never lead but just follow) indoctrinate members to believe the worst evil is to speak TRUTH that makes the cult look bad. So they will allow all kinds of other evil before they will allow FREE SPEECH in shining light on the evil of the cult.

It is so evil - especially to pretend to be good when doing evil. Father of lies.

[Thinker]

I watched it yesterday and told my husband about it. Just crazy. And as lawyers they know that they can't just say those things were prohibited. The knew they were bring dishonest and just trying to scare them. And they do it at the behest of the church.

Yep - the ld$ corporation engages in bullying and harassment as policy.

[Thinker]

…What I wish people would do instead of resigning from the Church is take it over. After all, we are a church of common consent, aren't we? How many people have to vote not to sustain the brethren before they lose their positions? Given what our foundational documents say about common consent, it seems to me that if over half of the Church voted to not sustain the brethren we could sue to have them legally removed from leading the corporation…

From another thread:

I think this is what you are looking for: https://research.cgu.edu/mormonism-migr ... in-mexico/
Look under the section: "The Third Convention".

Thanks for the link & directing me where to read. I appreciate it.

Wow. How dare members “confer” at conference!

“… native LDS Church leaders on Mexico’s Central Plateau began holding meetings known as “conventions,” at which the needs of the Mexicans members were discussed and then sent to the First Presidency of the LDS Church by letter.[28] After the second such meeting, in 1932, Mission President Antoine Ivins and Apostle Melvin J. Ballard visited members on the Central Plateau and informed them that their method of effecting change was outside the order of the Church...

… In addition to having an indigenous mission president in Mexico, Conventionists sought the construction of chapels in Mexico, the translation and publication of Church literature in Spanish, and the opportunity for native youth to develop leadership skills by going on full-time missions.[30]
A report of the April 21 convention was sent to Salt Lake City in the form of a petition. In response to this petition, leaders of the Third Convention were in excommunicated in 1937 for “rebellion, apostacy and insubordination. At this juncture, Conventionists split from the mainstream church, renaming themselves The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Third Convention and taking a third of the Church membership in Mexico with them.[32] Despite their separation from the mainstream church, Third Conventionists continued to preach orthodox Mormonism to each other and to their neighbors, baptizing many over a period of ten years.”

I LOVE how these amazing members didn’t let a cultish corporate bureaucracy change how they marched to the beat of what they believed. They just continued - business as usual, not missing a beat!

[Thinker]

Is there a certain time segment of the video that is relevant to your conversation, or will I have to watch the whole thing?

It is long. This is what stood out to me…

Shunning by decree (European branch pres opposes sustaining ga in stake conference- then asked to meet w “leaders”.
:37 “Leaders” don’t listen they just go by rote & when you raise doubts they become afraid because they don’t know the real answers. Him standing up was appreciated by many who came to him afterwards.
2:37 Passive aggressive - followers learn from “leaders,” so no authenticity (Radio-FreeMormon #79 “Y r Mormons so fake?” Generally people who step away from church develop more authentic caring.
2:41 church only cares about u as long as you prioritize it above all. https://www.youtube.com/live/HmUTeRWuLt ... 5upHuDNW4n

[Thinker]

Mitdja’s wife made a great point. When the Bishop/counselor shut off the mic, they instilled fear into the hearts of all of the members sitting in the chapel. Those actions told everyone that you don’t ask questions. Asking questions and expressing beliefs that contradict those of a leader will get you in trouble.

And they SHOWED that they are AGAINST the godly principle of FREE SPEECH!!

If I had to say the origin of most evil in the lds church, I’d say it stems from shutting down free speech that would otherwise help people repent, learn & grow rather than perpetuate and increase in evil.


-3minutes: Free Speech & the right to offend (JP)

JP suggests CHRIST is the archetype of FREE SPEECH.

[Thinker]

Many people cannot empathize with others when it’s something they simply don’t relate with or understand - like how immoral & cruel church “leaders” can be. The reality is that this could happen to any member! Something like it happened to me - though no police nor legal trespassing letter, but harassment/unrighteous dominion by a bishop - yes. It’s like a constant present potential - like a spider hiding in your house & as long as you are unaware, it doesn’t bother you. But once you SEE it, then it’s disturbing.

All members pick & choose what they agree with & disagree with but most don’t practice free speech in the church because they know the church is run more like a dictatorship & you will be harassed or X’ed if you step out of line too much. CULT. When you experience cultish shunning, harassment and threats - then you realize more ugly truth that can be hard to accept.

So unfair! I imagine what many people in oppressive places think of their oppressors - it’s so unfair! Where is justice?

We each need to keep the Spirit with us as much as possible - so we’re guided how best to act. Some of us may talk privately with the bishop about our concerns, others will be more public in person or online. If in person, it’s definitely more potentially disruptive to social relationships etc, but maybe that’s what God would have you do. Or like soldiers having a defense of anonymity may be what God would have. Or maybe a mix of both?

I believe this guy speaking up was likely inspired by good & God - to shed light on exactly how anti-free-speech this church is! What an amazing display for the whole ward to see! Even those who move on pretending nothing happened, deep down will ALWAYS remember that - something for their ever-increasing heavy shelf of “church issues” that will eventually crash down. A step away from oppression can be a little closer to God.

[Silver Pie]

I watched it yesterday and told my husband about it. Just crazy. And as lawyers they know that they can't just say those things were prohibited. The knew they were bring dishonest and just trying to scare them. And they do it at the behest of the church.

I had some friends who got the letter some years ago. They had been forbidden to take the sacrament, so they brought their own pre-blessed bread and wine (they make their own wine). They sat in the back of the overflow. I think they kneeled during the prayers - and ate and drank the sacrament they brought.

That resulted in the letter.

One of them loved to post (in a private online group) if she happened to be on Church (TM) property: "I'm in a church parking lot waiting to pick up (I forget who, but they had gone to some activity)." or "I'm at DI." We thought it was hilarious.

P.S. I'm thinking the letter also said something about receiving psychiatric help before they could be considered to be allowed to return.

[Silver Pie]

Anyhow, for everyone of these couples who are vocal, how many just walk away?

Do we have any solid numbers on what's been happening with membership and activity numbers?

If I were to count the friends and people I know who have simply stepped away, the number would be... golly, probably in the 70-90 range.

If you are also counting those who quietly resign (not just who go inactive), there are many. Some of us don't make waves. We just quietly leave an organization that is no longer following Christ.

[Silver Pie]

Oh, if they want to know, they know. I had an acquaintance that was excommunicated. When they initially called him in, they have a reams of paper there of every post he had made on this forum that troubled them. He only used his first name here as his handle--a very common name among in his age range--but once he had also revealed his whole name.

I know who you're talking about. We became friends after talking online on LDSglo and then here. He did challenge them in one of his posts iirc.

[Silver Pie]

Mitja’s wife made a great point. When the Bishop/counselor shut off the mic, they instilled fear into the hearts of all of the members sitting in the chapel. Those actions told everyone that you don’t ask questions. Asking questions and expressing beliefs that contradict those of a leader will get you in trouble.

Satanic behavior, much?