Kirton McKonkie Goes Gestapo

[Juliet]

Here are some words Samuel the Lamanite said to the city of Zarahemla, a city full of Nephites in the days before Jesus was born.
Helaman 13:

14 But behold, it is for the righteous' sake that it is spared. But behold, the time cometh, saith the Lord, that when ye shall cast out the righteous from among you, then shall ye be ripe for destruction; yea, wo be unto this great city, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in her.

[Seed Starter]

Here are some words Samuel the Lamanite said to the city of Zarahemla, a city full of Nephites in the days before Jesus was born.
Helaman 13:

14 But behold, it is for the righteous' sake that it is spared. But behold, the time cometh, saith the Lord, that when ye shall cast out the righteous from among you, then shall ye be ripe for destruction; yea, wo be unto this great city, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in her.

If we're in a similar situation then casting out the righteous hastens the destruction of the people in the great city. I wrote in an earlier post that a wiser thing to do than cut his mic would be to listen. That may even include creating a venue for such conversations. As the righteous move away from the modern church the risk may be growing for those still in. I've been told for most of my life that the risky thing to do is leave the church. That scripture is interesting in this context.

[Juliet]

Here are some words Samuel the Lamanite said to the city of Zarahemla, a city full of Nephites in the days before Jesus was born.
Helaman 13:

14 But behold, it is for the righteous' sake that it is spared. But behold, the time cometh, saith the Lord, that when ye shall cast out the righteous from among you, then shall ye be ripe for destruction; yea, wo be unto this great city, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in her.

If we're in a similar situation then casting out the righteous hastens the destruction of the people in the great city. I wrote in an earlier post that a wiser thing to do than cut his mic would be to listen. That may even include creating a venue for such conversations. As the righteous move away from the modern church the risk may be growing for those still in. I've been told for most of my life that the risky thing to do is leave the church. That scripture is interesting in this context.

Ideally the church would be a place the maliciously wicked would struggle to fit in. At this point, it's a spiritual war on all fronts. The more Christians gain ground, the more souls can be saved. But in a war there are times where you have to retreat. It has been on my mind lately that if we choose to do right in our individual lives, it somehow enables Jesus to save souls. The little acts we do to overcome sin make a difference.

[Seed Starter]

Here are some words Samuel the Lamanite said to the city of Zarahemla, a city full of Nephites in the days before Jesus was born.
Helaman 13:

14 But behold, it is for the righteous' sake that it is spared. But behold, the time cometh, saith the Lord, that when ye shall cast out the righteous from among you, then shall ye be ripe for destruction; yea, wo be unto this great city, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in her.

If we're in a similar situation then casting out the righteous hastens the destruction of the people in the great city. I wrote in an earlier post that a wiser thing to do than cut his mic would be to listen. That may even include creating a venue for such conversations. As the righteous move away from the modern church the risk may be growing for those still in. I've been told for most of my life that the risky thing to do is leave the church. That scripture is interesting in this context.

Ideally the church would be a place the maliciously wicked would struggle to fit in. At this point, it's a spiritual war on all fronts. The more Christians gain ground, the more souls can be saved. But in a war there are times where you have to retreat. It has been on my mind lately that if we choose to do right in our individual lives, it somehow enables Jesus to save souls. The little acts we do to overcome sin make a difference.

I like what you wrote about retreating. I think when the church crumbles it will be the fault of the "all is well in Zioners" because they won't stop the maliciously wicked from doing what they do. This feels a bit like a movie where we find out good guy is actually a bad guy. Some people watching that movie will be completely shocked while some others picked up a little foreshadowing early on and were just waiting or the reveal. Some even know the good guy is the bad guy but pretend it isn't going to cause issues. We live in interesting times for sure.

[Seed Starter]

Shunning by Decree
This video really hit me hard.
_____
Tldw: Man starts having doubts while serving as branch president in Europe concerning tithing and the poor. Then, President Nelson releases the Easter video of him getting the Covid-19 shot. This couple is opposed to the shot and that shook this man's faith. After a year or so of study, he decides to oppose the brethren during sustainings at stake conference. He gets called on the carpet by the stake president and the visiting area 70, Thomas Checketts. (Sorry, I had McConkie there. It was a late night.)

He tries to bear his testimony a week later at fast and testimony meeting and discuss the doubts that are bothering him, which a fair amount of people have done around the Church, and the bishopric counselor who was presiding shuts off the mic, apparently per the stake president. A month later, his brother is in town and goes with him to the next fast and testimony meeting. The brother decides to go up and testify to see if he can smooth things out, and as soon as he mentions who his brother is they shut the mic off again. Then, they escort them both out of the building surrounded by five or six elders.

They follow that up with a visit from the police and an unbelievably nasty letter from Kirton McKonkie telling him that not only can he not visit any church property, he basically cannot have contact with almost any church member in any way and that they will have him arrested if he does. The language of the letter is beyond aggressive.
_____

Words almost escape me at this point (that would be a miracle some might be praying for). What's the next step? Concentration camps? Sending the Danites to kill us? You think I'm being hyperbolic? Watch the video. There are many interesting details I didn't cover. The honesty and goodwill of this man and wife are so obvious.

In my opinion, this is really going to shake a lot of people because of the unbelievably petty, vindictive, nonsensical, and menacing nature of the Church's response. Want to look like a cult? Yup, that will do the trick.

I think it is very important to note that the Seventy who met with him after the stake conference is Thomas K. Checketts, a shareholder at Kirton McKonkie. In other words, this whole thing was obviously discussed at the highest levels including the leadership's reactions to this man and his brother at the fast and testimony meetings, and, of course, the letter to him.

Do you think those @$_-$&* in SLC would like to know who we are on this board? I'm pretty sure they would. I'm surprised I haven't been excommunicated already given how easy it would be to figure out who I am.

I quote Isaiah a lot, because his words always seem so relevant. Right now, Isaiah 66:5 seems appropriate:

Hear the word of Jehovah,
you who are vigilant for his word:
Your brethren who abhor you,
and exclude you because of my name, say,
Let Jehovah manifest his glory,
that we may see cause for your joy!
But it is they who shall suffer shame.

I just noticed Thomas Checketts will be the featured speaker at our stake conference this weekend. We're so blessed

[4Joshua8]

Shunning by Decree
This video really hit me hard.
_____
Tldw: Man starts having doubts while serving as branch president in Europe concerning tithing and the poor. Then, President Nelson releases the Easter video of him getting the Covid-19 shot. This couple is opposed to the shot and that shook this man's faith. After a year or so of study, he decides to oppose the brethren during sustainings at stake conference. He gets called on the carpet by the stake president and the visiting area 70, Thomas Checketts. (Sorry, I had McConkie there. It was a late night.)

He tries to bear his testimony a week later at fast and testimony meeting and discuss the doubts that are bothering him, which a fair amount of people have done around the Church, and the bishopric counselor who was presiding shuts off the mic, apparently per the stake president. A month later, his brother is in town and goes with him to the next fast and testimony meeting. The brother decides to go up and testify to see if he can smooth things out, and as soon as he mentions who his brother is they shut the mic off again. Then, they escort them both out of the building surrounded by five or six elders.

They follow that up with a visit from the police and an unbelievably nasty letter from Kirton McKonkie telling him that not only can he not visit any church property, he basically cannot have contact with almost any church member in any way and that they will have him arrested if he does. The language of the letter is beyond aggressive.
_____

Words almost escape me at this point (that would be a miracle some might be praying for). What's the next step? Concentration camps? Sending the Danites to kill us? You think I'm being hyperbolic? Watch the video. There are many interesting details I didn't cover. The honesty and goodwill of this man and wife are so obvious.

In my opinion, this is really going to shake a lot of people because of the unbelievably petty, vindictive, nonsensical, and menacing nature of the Church's response. Want to look like a cult? Yup, that will do the trick.

I think it is very important to note that the Seventy who met with him after the stake conference is Thomas K. Checketts, a shareholder at Kirton McKonkie. In other words, this whole thing was obviously discussed at the highest levels including the leadership's reactions to this man and his brother at the fast and testimony meetings, and, of course, the letter to him.

Do you think those @$_-$&* in SLC would like to know who we are on this board? I'm pretty sure they would. I'm surprised I haven't been excommunicated already given how easy it would be to figure out who I am.

I quote Isaiah a lot, because his words always seem so relevant. Right now, Isaiah 66:5 seems appropriate:

Hear the word of Jehovah,
you who are vigilant for his word:
Your brethren who abhor you,
and exclude you because of my name, say,
Let Jehovah manifest his glory,
that we may see cause for your joy!
But it is they who shall suffer shame.

Blessed are the dispirited, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[TwochurchesOnly]

Shunning by Decree
This video really hit me hard.
_____
Tldw: Man starts having doubts while serving as branch president in Europe concerning tithing and the poor. Then, President Nelson releases the Easter video of him getting the Covid-19 shot. This couple is opposed to the shot and that shook this man's faith. After a year or so of study, he decides to oppose the brethren during sustainings at stake conference. He gets called on the carpet by the stake president and the visiting area 70, Thomas Checketts. (Sorry, I had McConkie there. It was a late night.)

He tries to bear his testimony a week later at fast and testimony meeting and discuss the doubts that are bothering him, which a fair amount of people have done around the Church, and the bishopric counselor who was presiding shuts off the mic, apparently per the stake president. A month later, his brother is in town and goes with him to the next fast and testimony meeting. The brother decides to go up and testify to see if he can smooth things out, and as soon as he mentions who his brother is they shut the mic off again. Then, they escort them both out of the building surrounded by five or six elders.

They follow that up with a visit from the police and an unbelievably nasty letter from Kirton McKonkie telling him that not only can he not visit any church property, he basically cannot have contact with almost any church member in any way and that they will have him arrested if he does. The language of the letter is beyond aggressive.
_____

Words almost escape me at this point (that would be a miracle some might be praying for). What's the next step? Concentration camps? Sending the Danites to kill us? You think I'm being hyperbolic? Watch the video. There are many interesting details I didn't cover. The honesty and goodwill of this man and wife are so obvious.

In my opinion, this is really going to shake a lot of people because of the unbelievably petty, vindictive, nonsensical, and menacing nature of the Church's response. Want to look like a cult? Yup, that will do the trick.

I think it is very important to note that the Seventy who met with him after the stake conference is Thomas K. Checketts, a shareholder at Kirton McKonkie. In other words, this whole thing was obviously discussed at the highest levels including the leadership's reactions to this man and his brother at the fast and testimony meetings, and, of course, the letter to him.

Do you think those @$_-$&* in SLC would like to know who we are on this board? I'm pretty sure they would. I'm surprised I haven't been excommunicated already given how easy it would be to figure out who I am.

I quote Isaiah a lot, because his words always seem so relevant. Right now, Isaiah 66:5 seems appropriate:

Hear the word of Jehovah,
you who are vigilant for his word:
Your brethren who abhor you,
and exclude you because of my name, say,
Let Jehovah manifest his glory,
that we may see cause for your joy!
But it is they who shall suffer shame.

I just noticed Thomas Checketts will be the featured speaker at our stake conference this weekend. We're so blessed

saw pic of him-
noticed the teeth ...

i have ptsd from watching
dark shadows - at age 9

[Reluctant Watchman]

Quick update to this story. Mitja (the husband) is having a church court held on Oct. 15th, and he is being excommunicated for apostasy. The LDS org are masters at blending the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture.

But don’t you worry, they did express their love for him. You know, that “tough love” for those who have strayed.

[TwochurchesOnly]

Quick update to this story. Mitja (the husband) is having a church court held on Oct. 15th, and he is being excommunicated for apostasy. The LDS org are masters at blending the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture.

But don’t you worry, they did express their love for him. You know, that “tough love” for those who have strayed.

I hope he doesn't attend - still time to pull his own membership- quit - and tell them all where to go

[Reluctant Watchman]

Quick update to this story. Mitja (the husband) is having a church court held on Oct. 15th, and he is being excommunicated for apostasy. The LDS org are masters at blending the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture.

But don’t you worry, they did express their love for him. You know, that “tough love” for those who have strayed.

I hope he doesn't attend - still time to pull his own membership- quit - and tell them all where to go

Funny you mention that. They actually said in the letter to him that he can't attend due to his past behavior.

[Atrasado]

These people...smh. They really think they are something. Do they actually think God is going to honor their actions when they don't follow his law?

Blind is the adjective many ancient prophets used to describe the people of this Church. It fits.

[Silver Pie]

Funny you mention that. They actually said in the letter to him that he can't attend due to his past behavior.

Talk about shifting sands beneath your feet and the leadership constantly changing the rules and doctrine. Wow!

[Silver Pie]

Jesus said, concerning the Church Leaders in his own day, that they were the blind leading the blind, and both would fall into the ditch.

[Silver Pie]

And history has a tendency to repeat itself - especially with religions who consider themselves God's own chosen because a man a hundred or hundreds of years ago was a true prophet who set up a religion or a society that the current Leaders consider themselves rightly in charge of. To stand between the masses and God.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Mitja was eventually exxed. The letters from their church leaders are awful:

[Fred]

Here are some words Samuel the Lamanite said to the city of Zarahemla, a city full of Nephites in the days before Jesus was born.
Helaman 13:

14 But behold, it is for the righteous' sake that it is spared. But behold, the time cometh, saith the Lord, that when ye shall cast out the righteous from among you, then shall ye be ripe for destruction; yea, wo be unto this great city, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in her.

That's a when, not an if...
Do you suppose the Q15 have ever read it?
Maybe it's like the Drunkards of Ephraim, it means someone else...

[Reluctant Watchman]

Mitja was eventually exxed. The letters from their church leaders are awful:

I just finished the video. While it’s difficult to hear their story, I’m grateful for their desire to follow the Lord. BUT, I’m really, really not a fan of Radio Free Mormon and Bill Reel. While they can point fingers at the church, they are also quite… un-Christ like. I don’t like their MO.

[Atrasado]

Mitja was eventually exxed. The letters from their church leaders are awful:

I just finished the video. While it’s difficult to hear their story, I’m grateful for their desire to follow the Lord. BUT, I’m really, really not a fan of Radio Free Mormon and Bill Reel. While they can point fingers at the church, they are also quite… un-Christ like. I don’t like their MO.

I think RFM and Bill have decided (although I'm not sure) that it's all a lie, even the Book of Mormon and the Bible. So to them, maybe it seems like fair game to be acidic because they think there isn't a Christ so the Church is and always had been a tyranny and a bad joke in their mind and and one effective way to fight tyranny is to mock it.

Considering how Christ's supposed representatives act, I can see why someone would come to this conclusion, even though I know the idea that there has never been truth here is incorrect. Many are just so hurt emotionally, economically, and spiritually by the unrighteous dominion and lies of Church leaders through the years that they don't know what to do. Because we've built our whole lives upon what we thought was the rock of Christ, but turns out to be the lies of men, we continue to be deeply hurt by the Church, even when we try to move past it.

Like you, I find the actions by this stake president and the general leadership of the Church (we know this is the level these things are truly decided at, I don't care what they say) to be abhorrent. I'm in anguish at the current situation of the Church. Some Church leaders can rip your heart out while petting you and condescendingly saying how much they love you and that's starting to creep me out.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Mitja was eventually exxed. The letters from their church leaders are awful:

I just finished the video. While it’s difficult to hear their story, I’m grateful for their desire to follow the Lord. BUT, I’m really, really not a fan of Radio Free Mormon and Bill Reel. While they can point fingers at the church, they are also quite… un-Christ like. I don’t like their MO.

I think RFM and Bill have decided (although I'm not sure) that it's all a lie, even the Book of Mormon and the Bible. So to them, maybe it seems like fair game to be a acidic because they think there isn't a Christ so the Church is and always had been a tyranny and a bad joke in their mind and and one effective way to fight tyranny is to mock it.

Considering how Christ's supposed representatives act, I can see why someone would come to this conclusion, even though I know the idea that there has never been truth here is incorrect. Many are just so hurt emotionally, economically, and spiritually by the unrighteous dominion and lies of Church leaders through the years that they don't know what to do. Because we've built our whole lives upon what we thought was the rock of Christ, but turns out to be the lies of men, we continue to be deeply hurt by the Church, even when we try to move past it.

Like you, I find the actions by this stake president and the general leadership of the Church (we know this is the level these things are truly decided at, I don't care what they say) to be abhorrent. I'm in anguish at the current situation of the Church. Some Church leaders can rip your heart out while petting you and condescendingly saying how much they love you and that's starting to creep me out.

One of the greatest challenges for me has been the process of sifting through the Restoration movement of Joseph and deciding what to keep and what to set aside, and what to reject. RFM and Bill both reject the BoM, and I know that Bill is an atheist. I wouldn’t doubt it if RFM is as well.

[Atrasado]

I just finished the video. While it’s difficult to hear their story, I’m grateful for their desire to follow the Lord. BUT, I’m really, really not a fan of Radio Free Mormon and Bill Reel. While they can point fingers at the church, they are also quite… un-Christ like. I don’t like their MO.

I think RFM and Bill have decided (although I'm not sure) that it's all a lie, even the Book of Mormon and the Bible. So to them, maybe it seems like fair game to be a acidic because they think there isn't a Christ so the Church is and always had been a tyranny and a bad joke in their mind and and one effective way to fight tyranny is to mock it.

Considering how Christ's supposed representatives act, I can see why someone would come to this conclusion, even though I know the idea that there has never been truth here is incorrect. Many are just so hurt emotionally, economically, and spiritually by the unrighteous dominion and lies of Church leaders through the years that they don't know what to do. Because we've built our whole lives upon what we thought was the rock of Christ, but turns out to be the lies of men, we continue to be deeply hurt by the Church, even when we try to move past it.

Like you, I find the actions by this stake president and the general leadership of the Church (we know this is the level these things are truly decided at, I don't care what they say) to be abhorrent. I'm in anguish at the current situation of the Church. Some Church leaders can rip your heart out while petting you and condescendingly saying how much they love you and that's starting to creep me out.

One of the greatest challenges for me has been the process of sifting through the Restoration movement of Joseph and deciding what to keep and what to set aside, and what to reject. RFM and Bill both reject the BoM, and I know that Bill is an atheist. I wouldn’t doubt it if RFM is as well.

It seems that happens a lot when people reject the Church. Because the Church can be so all-consuming it requires a lot of faith in the institution itself. When the institution is found glaringly wanting, it destroys everything for them.

This doesn't seem to happen with the Catholics because they have known for centuries that their Church is corrupt and abusive. No surprises there. They might be mildly surprised at just how corrupt it is, but many wouldn't be. And most Catholics only go on Christmas and Easter, anyways.

With us Mormons, finding out the truth about the Church profoundly wrecks our lives. I think that's a major reason why so many members don't want to hear it about the corruption and lies. They know where this goes in terms of their lives and they don't want that kind of pain.

[Mala_Suerte]

As an attorney, my favorite lawyer joke is, "99% of attorneys make the rest of us look bad". Kirton McKonkie definitely fits into the 99% category. I say that, not just based on their letter in this video, but also experiences of friends of mine who practice law in Utah and have beat the pants off of Kirton McKonkie in the courtroom. The attorneys at Kirton McKonkie tend to feel they are above all others.