Kirton McKonkie Goes Gestapo

[Subcomandante]

Mitja’s wife made a great point. When the Bishop/counselor shut off the mic, they instilled fear into the hearts of all of the members sitting in the chapel. Those actions told everyone that you don’t ask questions. Asking questions and expressing beliefs that contradict those of a leader will get you in trouble.

I simply have to go back to Joseph Smith. We don't have a church today, unless Joseph Smith asks a question directly to the Lord, and is ready to act on the answer that he received from the Lord.

I teach my kids to question everything, even the advice that I give them, in light of the Scriptures. I do NOT want them following me if I am leading them on an incorrect path. I want them to follow Jesus.

[Subcomandante]

…What I wish people would do instead of resigning from the Church is take it over. After all, we are a church of common consent, aren't we? How many people have to vote not to sustain the brethren before they lose their positions? Given what our foundational documents say about common consent, it seems to me that if over half of the Church voted to not sustain the brethren we could sue to have them legally removed from leading the corporation…

From another thread:

I think this is what you are looking for: https://research.cgu.edu/mormonism-migr ... in-mexico/
Look under the section: "The Third Convention".

Thanks for the link & directing me where to read. I appreciate it.

Wow. How dare members “confer” at conference!

“… native LDS Church leaders on Mexico’s Central Plateau began holding meetings known as “conventions,” at which the needs of the Mexicans members were discussed and then sent to the First Presidency of the LDS Church by letter.[28] After the second such meeting, in 1932, Mission President Antoine Ivins and Apostle Melvin J. Ballard visited members on the Central Plateau and informed them that their method of effecting change was outside the order of the Church...

… In addition to having an indigenous mission president in Mexico, Conventionists sought the construction of chapels in Mexico, the translation and publication of Church literature in Spanish, and the opportunity for native youth to develop leadership skills by going on full-time missions.[30]
A report of the April 21 convention was sent to Salt Lake City in the form of a petition. In response to this petition, leaders of the Third Convention were in excommunicated in 1937 for “rebellion, apostacy and insubordination. At this juncture, Conventionists split from the mainstream church, renaming themselves The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Third Convention and taking a third of the Church membership in Mexico with them.[32] Despite their separation from the mainstream church, Third Conventionists continued to preach orthodox Mormonism to each other and to their neighbors, baptizing many over a period of ten years.”

I LOVE how these amazing members didn’t let a cultish corporate bureaucracy change how they marched to the beat of what they believed. They just continued - business as usual, not missing a beat!

Even better, when the Salt Lake leadership in the days of George Albert Smith saw what the Third Convention was doing, when he took a trip down to Mexico, and saw that they were doing things correctly, he let them back into the fold. One of the Third Convention's sticking points was establishing a new mission with a local mission president (understandable because the Mexican Government had expelled foreign missionaries on three occasions rather recently). George Albert Smith essentially told the Third Convention that their goals were noble, but what really needed to happen was the formation of stakes and the missions would come afterwards.

The vast majority of the tercerconvencionistas were brought back into full fellowship. A few decided to reorganize themselves but they never grew back into its previously dominate infrastructure that they enjoyed in the 1940s. The small town of Ozumba still has a few of them as does Amecameca. Both also have functioning stakes of the LDS Church.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Mitja’s wife made a great point. When the Bishop/counselor shut off the mic, they instilled fear into the hearts of all of the members sitting in the chapel. Those actions told everyone that you don’t ask questions. Asking questions and expressing beliefs that contradict those of a leader will get you in trouble.

I simply have to go back to Joseph Smith. We don't have a church today, unless Joseph Smith asks a question directly to the Lord, and is ready to act on the answer that he received from the Lord.

I teach my kids to question everything, even the advice that I give them, in light of the Scriptures. I do NOT want them following me if I am leading them on an incorrect path. I want them to follow Jesus.

My journey has taken me back to Adam… and even before. As far as modern theologies, I’m beginning to learn quite a bit from Emmanuel Swedenborg. That dude had some pretty wild experiences and wrote extensively about existence beyond the veil. And yes, Joseph is a wonderful place to spend some quality time. The biggest challenge I have is trying to find out what he actually said/taught. Even something seemingly “on record” or “in public” still has a lot of historical context that is missing these days. Single quotes, or even entire sermons, can be taken out of context.

But, that’s the beauty of all of this. When we level the playing field and don’t elevate the teachings or words of any person, we strengthen our ability to hear God for ourselves and receive personal revelation.

[cwass]

This thread has been a bit of an echo chamber. Can any of you on the forum who believe “the church is true” and that you have “living prophets”, and bonafide “PSRs”, justify this type of behavior from the church and their legal team?

It seems to me that Misha could have been looking for a bit of a fight. He talks like he just wanted to testify of Christ but I sense that he is mad. Not that he doesn't have the right to be, especially now.

Hence the need to drop the hammer. Doesn't excuse the reaction of the church's law firm in any way.

BTW, I believe Dave Checkets was over Madison square garden or worked for the Knicks or something like that.

[BringerOfJoy]

Oh, if they want to know, they know. I had an acquaintance that was excommunicated. When they initially called him in, they have a reams of paper there of every post he had made on this forum that troubled them. He only used his first name here as his handle--a very common name among in his age range--but once he had also revealed his whole name.

I know who you're talking about. We became friends after talking online on LDSglo and then here. He did challenge them in one of his posts iirc.

He did. But so did I and several others, though I was stone-cold sober when I posted, so it might have been a little politer than his post. I posted my name and my membership number at the time. Never heard a thing about it.

[Psyche]

I didn't watch too much of the video - it's just so long. So I appreciate the TL;DR. Is the K&M letter available online anywhere to read?

[Chip]

I didn't watch too much of the video - it's just so long. So I appreciate the TL;DR. Is the K&M letter available online anywhere to read?

CurtainMacDonkey.jpg (152.75 KiB) Viewed 365 times

[Psyche]

Thanks. I've repented and am watching it now. I found the letter at 1:46:00 (for anyone else interested). I also looked up the 2021 Easter message they mentioned - with RMN getting the jab. It's here if you are interested at 1:54

[Ymarsakar]

I also dont tend to quote scripture or use notes. I just use my recall ability. It looks like i am using chat ai and the internet but 99% is just my recall.

Are you sure there isn't a little peyote involved... ?

"Tripping on Peyote in Navajo Nation"
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cr ... jo-nation/

Humans need that, but I have never used it. My skills are derived from work and analysis.

[Ymarsakar]

Most people got saline

The three vials I inspected of the Pfizer vaxx were all full of graphene. They had the same lot number, though.

That's the most interesting thing I've read all day. Maybe start a thread and tell us some more about that.

It is old info. Alt docs have been talking about bad batch numbers for while, even Bongino this year covered it.

[Atrasado]

The three vials I inspected of the Pfizer vaxx were all full of graphene. They had the same lot number, though.

That's the most interesting thing I've read all day. Maybe start a thread and tell us some more about that.

It is old info. Alt docs have been talking about bad batch numbers for while, even Bongino this year covered it.

I was aware. I usually stay up to date on things. I was interested in his personal experience examining the vials. Where did he get them from. What tests did he run on them? What other things did he find? That sort of stuff.

[Chip]

That's the most interesting thing I've read all day. Maybe start a thread and tell us some more about that.

It is old info. Alt docs have been talking about bad batch numbers for while, even Bongino this year covered it.

I was aware. I usually stay up to date on things. I was interested in his personal experience examining the vials. Where did he get them from. What tests did he run on them? What other things did he find? That sort of stuff.

I made a detailed thread about it here:

viewtopic.php?t=64508&hilit=Vaxx

The vials had only one or two injections drawn from them, out of six, and were being disposed of at the end of business hours. There was a six-hour limit on vials from initial drawing to disposal.

[Bonhoeffer]

Many people cannot empathize with others when it’s something they simply don’t relate with or understand - like how immoral & cruel church “leaders” can be. The reality is that this could happen to any member! Something like it happened to me - though no police nor legal trespassing letter, but harassment/unrighteous dominion by a bishop - yes. It’s like a constant present potential - like a spider hiding in your house & as long as you are unaware, it doesn’t bother you. But once you SEE it, then it’s disturbing.

All members pick & choose what they agree with & disagree with but most don’t practice free speech in the church because they know the church is run more like a dictatorship & you will be harassed or X’ed if you step out of line too much. CULT. When you experience cultish shunning, harassment and threats - then you realize more ugly truth that can be hard to accept.

So unfair! I imagine what many people in oppressive places think of their oppressors - it’s so unfair! Where is justice?

We each need to keep the Spirit with us as much as possible - so we’re guided how best to act. Some of us may talk privately with the bishop about our concerns, others will be more public in person or online. If in person, it’s definitely more potentially disruptive to social relationships etc, but maybe that’s what God would have you do. Or like soldiers having a defense of anonymity may be what God would have. Or maybe a mix of both?

I believe this guy speaking up was likely inspired by good & God - to shed light on exactly how anti-free-speech this church is! What an amazing display for the whole ward to see! Even those who move on pretending nothing happened, deep down will ALWAYS remember that - something for their ever-increasing heavy shelf of “church issues” that will eventually crash down. A step away from oppression can be a little closer to God.

You are spot on. When you have been hurt deeply by a person or people in a place of authority it threatens your other relationships bc people just simply don’t want to face the facts that their made up hero’s can do evil things.

I was called into my branch Pres office one evening back when I was a young mom & my husband was in residency. He made sure I could come alone & that my husband would be home to watch our kids (which was very rare). I sat and listened to him berate me, telling me “people admire you from a distance but no one here really likes you.” All bc I wouldn’t participate in the other young mom’s play groups bc his son in particular would hit & bite my girls. I knew & still know he was lying bc I had many friends in that branch but I’d be lying to myself if I say it didn’t affect me in a very negative way. He created a silent wedge between me & all who went to church. I Constantly wondered who there hated me & told him so. It still hurts my heart so much bc I desperately needed help & support being alone so much, not able to speak most of their languages, It was a very diverse branch in NY with people from all over the world. I’ve had a hard time trusting church leadership ever since.

I greatly admire Mischa for his courage & he’s seriously got me thinking about doing the same at our next stake conf. If my name here is Bonhoeffer, surely I should live up to his great name.

[Ymarsakar]

Many people cannot empathize with others when it’s something they simply don’t relate with or understand - like how immoral & cruel church “leaders” can be. The reality is that this could happen to any member! Something like it happened to me - though no police nor legal trespassing letter, but harassment/unrighteous dominion by a bishop - yes. It’s like a constant present potential - like a spider hiding in your house & as long as you are unaware, it doesn’t bother you. But once you SEE it, then it’s disturbing.

All members pick & choose what they agree with & disagree with but most don’t practice free speech in the church because they know the church is run more like a dictatorship & you will be harassed or X’ed if you step out of line too much. CULT. When you experience cultish shunning, harassment and threats - then you realize more ugly truth that can be hard to accept.

So unfair! I imagine what many people in oppressive places think of their oppressors - it’s so unfair! Where is justice?

We each need to keep the Spirit with us as much as possible - so we’re guided how best to act. Some of us may talk privately with the bishop about our concerns, others will be more public in person or online. If in person, it’s definitely more potentially disruptive to social relationships etc, but maybe that’s what God would have you do. Or like soldiers having a defense of anonymity may be what God would have. Or maybe a mix of both?

I believe this guy speaking up was likely inspired by good & God - to shed light on exactly how anti-free-speech this church is! What an amazing display for the whole ward to see! Even those who move on pretending nothing happened, deep down will ALWAYS remember that - something for their ever-increasing heavy shelf of “church issues” that will eventually crash down. A step away from oppression can be a little closer to God.

You are spot on. When you have been hurt deeply by a person or people in a place of authority it threatens your other relationships bc people just simply don’t want to face the facts that their made up hero’s can do evil things.

I was called into my branch Pres office one evening back when I was a young mom & my husband was in residency. He made sure I could come alone & that my husband would be home to watch our kids (which was very rare). I sat and listened to him berate me, telling me “people admire you from a distance but no one here really likes you.” All bc I wouldn’t participate in the other young mom’s play groups bc his son in particular would hit & bite my girls. I knew & still know he was lying bc I had many friends in that branch but I’d be lying to myself if I say it didn’t affect me in a very negative way. He created a silent wedge between me & all who went to church. I Constantly wondered who there hated me & told him so. It still hurts my heart so much bc I desperately needed help & support being alone so much, not able to speak most of their languages, It was a very diverse branch in NY with people from all over the world. I’ve had a hard time trusting church leadership ever since.

I greatly admire Mischa for his courage & he’s seriously got me thinking about doing the same at our next stake conf. If my name here is Bonhoeffer, surely I should live up to his great name.

That was an attempt to transfer demonia into you. Once you begin giving energy to the paranoid thoguhts the unclean spirits will enter the gate.

My response would be to them.

You dont know a damn thing, human. And if your spirits speak to me like this again, you will find out what nato found out.

The strange is people seem intimidated by me in person. They dont like complaining about stuff face to face with me. The internet is great because people will tell me what they really think. Honesty is better for justive than fake niceties.

Learning what ur soul is thinkijg vs what human demonia is thinking is a great challenge

[Bonhoeffer]

Many people cannot empathize with others when it’s something they simply don’t relate with or understand - like how immoral & cruel church “leaders” can be. The reality is that this could happen to any member! Something like it happened to me - though no police nor legal trespassing letter, but harassment/unrighteous dominion by a bishop - yes. It’s like a constant present potential - like a spider hiding in your house & as long as you are unaware, it doesn’t bother you. But once you SEE it, then it’s disturbing.

All members pick & choose what they agree with & disagree with but most don’t practice free speech in the church because they know the church is run more like a dictatorship & you will be harassed or X’ed if you step out of line too much. CULT. When you experience cultish shunning, harassment and threats - then you realize more ugly truth that can be hard to accept.

So unfair! I imagine what many people in oppressive places think of their oppressors - it’s so unfair! Where is justice?

We each need to keep the Spirit with us as much as possible - so we’re guided how best to act. Some of us may talk privately with the bishop about our concerns, others will be more public in person or online. If in person, it’s definitely more potentially disruptive to social relationships etc, but maybe that’s what God would have you do. Or like soldiers having a defense of anonymity may be what God would have. Or maybe a mix of both?

I believe this guy speaking up was likely inspired by good & God - to shed light on exactly how anti-free-speech this church is! What an amazing display for the whole ward to see! Even those who move on pretending nothing happened, deep down will ALWAYS remember that - something for their ever-increasing heavy shelf of “church issues” that will eventually crash down. A step away from oppression can be a little closer to God.

You are spot on. When you have been hurt deeply by a person or people in a place of authority it threatens your other relationships bc people just simply don’t want to face the facts that their made up hero’s can do evil things.

I was called into my branch Pres office one evening back when I was a young mom & my husband was in residency. He made sure I could come alone & that my husband would be home to watch our kids (which was very rare). I sat and listened to him berate me, telling me “people admire you from a distance but no one here really likes you.” All bc I wouldn’t participate in the other young mom’s play groups bc his son in particular would hit & bite my girls. I knew & still know he was lying bc I had many friends in that branch but I’d be lying to myself if I say it didn’t affect me in a very negative way. He created a silent wedge between me & all who went to church. I Constantly wondered who there hated me & told him so. It still hurts my heart so much bc I desperately needed help & support being alone so much, not able to speak most of their languages, It was a very diverse branch in NY with people from all over the world. I’ve had a hard time trusting church leadership ever since.

I greatly admire Mischa for his courage & he’s seriously got me thinking about doing the same at our next stake conf. If my name here is Bonhoeffer, surely I should live up to his great name.

That was an attempt to transfer demonia into you. Once you begin giving energy to the paranoid thoguhts the unclean spirits will enter the gate.

My response would be to them.

You dont know a damn thing, human. And if your spirits speak to me like this again, you will find out what nato found out.

The strange is people seem intimidated by me in person. They dont like complaining about stuff face to face with me. The internet is great because people will tell me what they really think. Honesty is better for justive than fake niceties.

Learning what ur soul is thinkijg vs what human demonia is thinking is a great challenge

Oh believe me, I gave him an earful via an email I sent when I got home & sat on what he’d said and he later tried to grovel out an apology. I’ve never taken abuse like the “keep sweet” girls they wish we’d be.

[Bonhoeffer]

Anyone notice a pattern here? We’ve had a few instances recently, where a vague spokes person makes damning remarks about a person, or a group of people who are actively protecting children from Satan himself. Not long ago it was the lawyer who contacted the Stake President in Idaho to tell the press that the church didn’t approve of the peaceful and silent protest of drag queen story hour. Now they’re going after a man who has dedicated his life, creating an organization that rescues children from the depths of hell. He even credits his wife for the inspiration directing him to pursue this worthy cause. Is Tim an interesting character? He sure is, but all of us would have demons to face if we witnessed the atrocities that this man has witnessed firsthand. For the leaders to sit in their ivory towers and Midway, UT vacation homes and send out their minion to criticize him for the way, that he chooses to serve the Lord is beyond reproach.

Even Glenn Beck is taking LDS corp on. Good for him! We should all be as courageous!
https://x.com/glennbeck/status/17032968 ... rpbCMIdZrw

[Ymarsakar]

Anyone notice a pattern here? We’ve had a few instances recently, where a vague spokes person makes damning remarks about a person, or a group of people who are actively protecting children from Satan himself. Not long ago it was the lawyer who contacted the Stake President in Idaho to tell the press that the church didn’t approve of the peaceful and silent protest of drag queen story hour. Now they’re going after a man who has dedicated his life, creating an organization that rescues children from the depths of hell. He even credits his wife for the inspiration directing him to pursue this worthy cause. Is Tim an interesting character? He sure is, but all of us would have demons to face if we witnessed the atrocities that this man has witnessed firsthand. For the leaders to sit in their ivory towers and Midway, UT vacation homes and send out their minion to criticize him for the way, that he chooses to serve the Lord is beyond reproach.

Even Glenn Beck is taking LDS corp on. Good for him! We should all be as courageous!
https://x.com/glennbeck/status/17032968 ... rpbCMIdZrw

Glenn beck was rescued from alcoholicism via lds teachings spirit. Glenn beck bankrolled tim ballard when ballard sacrificed his gov pension to go to latin america as his god commanded.

Tim ballard also ran the nazarene fund for beck s mercury 1.

And it is nice you notice it. Stuff like this hapoens when i focus my emerald eye upon utah mormins

[Thinker]

Many people cannot empathize with others when it’s something they simply don’t relate with or understand - like how immoral & cruel church “leaders” can be. The reality is that this could happen to any member! Something like it happened to me - though no police nor legal trespassing letter, but harassment/unrighteous dominion by a bishop - yes. It’s like a constant present potential - like a spider hiding in your house & as long as you are unaware, it doesn’t bother you. But once you SEE it, then it’s disturbing.

All members pick & choose what they agree with & disagree with but most don’t practice free speech in the church because they know the church is run more like a dictatorship & you will be harassed or X’ed if you step out of line too much. CULT. When you experience cultish shunning, harassment and threats - then you realize more ugly truth that can be hard to accept.

So unfair! I imagine what many people in oppressive places think of their oppressors - it’s so unfair! Where is justice?

We each need to keep the Spirit with us as much as possible - so we’re guided how best to act. Some of us may talk privately with the bishop about our concerns, others will be more public in person or online. If in person, it’s definitely more potentially disruptive to social relationships etc, but maybe that’s what God would have you do. Or like soldiers having a defense of anonymity may be what God would have. Or maybe a mix of both?

I believe this guy speaking up was likely inspired by good & God - to shed light on exactly how anti-free-speech this church is! What an amazing display for the whole ward to see! Even those who move on pretending nothing happened, deep down will ALWAYS remember that - something for their ever-increasing heavy shelf of “church issues” that will eventually crash down. A step away from oppression can be a little closer to God.

You are spot on. When you have been hurt deeply by a person or people in a place of authority it threatens your other relationships bc people just simply don’t want to face the facts that their made up hero’s can do evil things.

I was called into my branch Pres office one evening back when I was a young mom & my husband was in residency. He made sure I could come alone & that my husband would be home to watch our kids (which was very rare). I sat and listened to him berate me, telling me “people admire you from a distance but no one here really likes you.” All bc I wouldn’t participate in the other young mom’s play groups bc his son in particular would hit & bite my girls. I knew & still know he was lying bc I had many friends in that branch but I’d be lying to myself if I say it didn’t affect me in a very negative way. He created a silent wedge between me & all who went to church. I Constantly wondered who there hated me & told him so. It still hurts my heart so much bc I desperately needed help & support being alone so much, not able to speak most of their languages, It was a very diverse branch in NY with people from all over the world. I’ve had a hard time trusting church leadership ever since.

I greatly admire Mischa for his courage & he’s seriously got me thinking about doing the same at our next stake conf. If my name here is Bonhoeffer, surely I should live up to his great name.

Thanks for sharing your experience. That was awful for him to say to you, and even worse to abuse his authority to do so. Some might justify it by saying, “the church is perfect but people aren’t.” But the church is NOT perfect - it is set up in cultish ways that dishonor free agency & promote unrighteous dominion.

Moreover, repeatedly I have seen in members a similar thing that your old branch president tried with you - psychologically projecting and blaming others for their un-dealt-with problems. Scott Peck defined evil as the attempt to shift blame and make another person pay.

Many (most active) members seem to have all kinds of horrible emotions they have been burying for years, & so every now & then when something triggers them, they react in a bizarrely dysfunctional way. This is the rotten fruits or consequences of following leaders who refuse to repent, who even refuse to consider they could possibly ever do anything wrong. So here are many members sitting in their own old emotional garbage (feeling like crap) & a cult who systematically as part of the worthiness interview would demand members only “affiliate” with other members who also prioritize the cult above all. Sickness on top of sickness. No wonder UT led the nation in mental illness!

[JuneBug12000]

This is a crosspost of a comment I made in another thread. It is edited and only a part of the comment relevant to this thread.

I watched the video. I read the letter by Kirton McKonkie banning them from church and friends over a testimony. I can't see how they can even continue to live in Utah anymore. The church's ownership being so existence they could be trespassing and in danger of arrest just for living and doing business in the area.

His testimony really resonates with me. I can feel my Mormon upbringing cringing from his boldness, but then, I felt strongly the correlation between his actions and Christ's.

When Christ went to his "home ward" and chastised the people and declared himself the Messiah. The people took him to a cliff to throw him off, but he passed through he crowd unharmed. I felt the same Spirit in this man's actions.

Luke 4:16-30

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

30 But he passing through the midst of them went his way

God bless him, his wife, his brother and his family. I would love to share Sabbath worship with them. I don't know them personally, but I would love to have such faithful people as my neighbors and friends.

[HereWeGo]

If I were to count the friends and people I know who have simply stepped away, the number would be... golly, probably in the 70-90 range.

RW, I love you, but no one has said golly in over 50 years.

I have friends in Idaho and I hear them say things like this. Gosh Darn. Golly. Give you a lickin'. They aren't seniors. I think it gets passed from generation to generation.

[BringerOfJoy]

^^My dad was from Idaho, and I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt, those weren't the kind of words he used. His would take the paint off of a barn door.

[Reluctant Watchman]

My dad was from Idaho, and I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt, those weren't the kind of words he used. His would take the paint off of a barn door.

I have stories from my family history that would go right along w/ that. My great grandfather would often say that there were certain words that only cows would listen to.

[dreamtheater76]

Sounds like they have way too much power and no accountability. Self righteousness and judgemental behavior to go with it. I guess they believe that they speak for God.
At least Zeezrom had a conscious and repented. Attorney scum!

[larsenb]

It's so hard to listen to RFM. I don't know how people do it. He thinks he's funny, but not really. He is so fake. And it's annoying how he often doesn't understand what his guests are saying, and they have to restate.

Of course COVID and tithing were the wake up calls. I wish the Church was worthy, but sooner or later more and more will be facing these same things.

Anyhow, for everyone of these couples who are vocal, how many just walk away?

Do we have any solid numbers on what's been happening with membership and activity numbers?

I can't give RFM more than 5 minutes of my eyes and ears either. I'm not a big video watcher as it is, and even less so from folks like him. But yeah RFM gets little to none of my attention and time.

Our 501c3 corporation has built up a true Babylonian empire and more than ANYTHING else, the corp executives fear what that Babylon they've served can do to their empire if they don't toe the line, so to speak. The corp is willing to sacrifice those that open their eyes to the reality of our situation, that secret combinations have infiltrated us and gotten above us. The corp believes a key to keeping their worldly empire are the yes-men, those that do and say whatever comes from SLC without questioning, these yes men make great leaders in the corp's eyes. So in the corporation's mind, it is correct to sacrifice/lose those that are seeing the reality of what's going on with the corp, and in turn to retain those members that willingly and blindly obey SLC. It's truly ran like a worldly global corporation.

I'm very grateful the Lord showed me (this was for ME, not declaring it for others but wouldn't surprise me if other sincere seekers are told/guided similarly) that what's really important in this mortal probation period is my relationship with Him and with my bros and sisters, and what I'm focused on BECOMING, not my relationship with a corporate empire. So this is what I focus on. This is what I hope ALL can come to see, to a degree We don't need loyalty to a corporation, we need loyalty to the Lord and to the truth. Unwavering loyalty to the corp is a big reason we're in the mess we're in.

“But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”
(Joshua 24:15, NKJV)

Amen!

Here is some GOOD NEWS....

Is she the young Jewish lady that had a direct NDE with God the Father and Jesus? I think I've seen the video going over her experience some time ago.

[Atrasado]

This thread has been a bit of an echo chamber. Can any of you on the forum who believe “the church is true” and that you have “living prophets”, and bonafide “PSRs”, justify this type of behavior from the church and their legal team?

It seems to me that Misha could have been looking for a bit of a fight. He talks like he just wanted to testify of Christ but I sense that he is mad. Not that he doesn't have the right to be, especially now.

Hence the need to drop the hammer. Doesn't excuse the reaction of the church's law firm in any way.

BTW, I believe Dave Checkets was over Madison square garden or worked for the Knicks or something like that.

That's Dave Checketts, not Thomas Checketts. Dave Checketts has been a mission president but not a Seventy.