Isaiah 1

[Atrasado]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

A starting place for me are the Lord's words to the Nephites when he explained,

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. (3 Nephi 23:1-3)

Not only is the Savior commanding the Nephites and us to search the words of Isaiah, but he is also giving the first key to understanding Isaiah. When the Savior says, "And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake," he isn't saying that the words of Isaiah have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. The Lord would have used the word "or" instead of and there if that were the case. He is saying that Isaiah wrote using dualism, using things that already happened or would shortly come to pass, to prophecy of things that will happen in the latter days. The Lord was telling those with eyes to see and ears to hear that all of Isaiah pertains to we who are living in the latter days.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church? It's because we don't apply ourselves to understanding Isaiah's methods of writing. I wonder if the Lord will be amused when we tell him that the Isaiah chapters were really, really hard. Maybe, but probably not in a good way. So, a couple of years ago, I decided I had better shape up, and repent of my neglect of Isaiah. It has been quite educational.

I'm sharing this on the Forum so that I can get your thoughts as I write. In no way is this a magnum opus, it's more like a young child trying to learn how to write and think. However, I will be blunt about my thoughts and will try not to shade things.

Isaiah 1
The Situation or Cause
The sons (and daughters) of Jehavah have gone seriously astray. They are described as having revolted against God, less sensible than oxen and donkeys, weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children, and apostates from Jehovah. Of the House of Israel Isaiah writes that the whole head (all of our leaders) and our whole heart (our most dedicated members) are sick and our whole body is afflicted with wounds and bruises and festering sores. He calls us Sodom and Gomorrah and says that the faithful city (I imagine this to be Salt Lake City) has become a whore (Could it be said that Utah sold itself to host the Winter Olympics and in a host of other ways?), full of murderers, ruled by those who love bribes and rewards, unjust to the poor and helpless, and full of cultists who have groves like Canaanites and Philistines that corrupted ancient Israel. The Lord hates our attendance at sacrament meetings and the temple because we are hypocrites, love iniquity, and do not help the poor. He hates the Fast and Testimony meetings that we have at the start of the new month. Our hands are full of blood, probably because of our murders and our support of our tyrannical governments here in the West.

The Effect
Because of this our land will soon be ruined and our cities will soon be burned with fire by foreigners. Almost everyone will die for there will be few survivors. The Lord will avenge himself of the enemies he has in his own house, will destroy thieves and criminals, and will destroy the elite and mighty. He will cleanse the City of Righteousness and purify the dross out of the silver. Judges and counsellors will be restored to Zion as at first and the repentant will be redeemed.

What Should We Do?
We should repent with all of our hearts, minds, and strength. The prophet wrote,

16 Wash yourselves clean:
remove your wicked deeds
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil.
17 Learn to do good: demand justice,
stand up for the oppressed;
plead the cause of the fatherless,
appeal on behalf of the widow.

We must be willing and obey if we want to eat the good of the land.

[GeeR]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

A starting place for me are the Lord's words to the Nephites when he explained,

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. (3 Nephi 23:1-3)

Not only is the Savior commanding the Nephites and us to search the words of Isaiah, but he is also giving the first key to understanding Isaiah. When the Savior says, "And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake," he isn't saying that the words of Isaiah have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. The Lord would have used the word "or" instead of and there if that were the case. He is saying that Isaiah wrote using dualism, using things that already happened or would shortly come to pass, to prophecy of things that will happen in the latter days. The Lord was telling those with eyes to see and ears to hear that all of Isaiah pertains to we who are living in the latter days.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church? It's because we don't apply ourselves to understanding Isaiah's methods of writing. I wonder if the Lord will be amused when we tell him that the Isaiah chapters were really, really hard. Maybe, but probably not in a good way. So, a couple of years ago, I decided I had better shape up, and repent of my neglect of Isaiah. It has been quite educational.

I'm sharing this on the Forum so that I can get your thoughts as I write. In no way is this a magnum opus, it's more like a young child trying to learn how to write and think. However, I will be blunt about my thoughts and will try not to shade things.

Isaiah 1
The Situation or Cause
The sons (and daughters) of Jehavah have gone seriously astray. They are described as having revolted against God, less sensible than oxen and donkeys, weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children, and apostates from Jehovah. Of the House of Israel Isaiah writes that the whole head (all of our leaders) and our whole heart (our most dedicated members) are sick and our whole body is afflicted with wounds and bruises and festering sores. He calls us Sodom and Gomorrah and says that the faithful city (I imagine this to be Salt Lake City) has become a whore (Could it be said that Utah sold itself to host the Winter Olympics and in a host of other ways?), full of murderers, ruled by those who love bribes and rewards, unjust to the poor and helpless, and full of cultists who have groves like Canaanites and Philistines that corrupted ancient Israel. The Lord hates our attendance at sacrament meetings and the temple because we are hypocrites, love iniquity, and do not help the poor. He hates the Fast and Testimony meetings that we have at the start of the new month. Our hands are full of blood, probably because of our murders and our support of our tyrannical governments here in the West.

The Effect
Because of this our land will soon be ruined and our cities will soon be burned with fire by foreigners. Almost everyone will die for there will be few survivors. The Lord will avenge himself of the enemies he has in his own house, will destroy thieves and criminals, and will destroy the elite and mighty. He will cleanse the City of Righteousness and purify the dross out of the silver. Judges and counsellors will be restored to Zion as at first and the repentant will be redeemed.

What Should We Do?
We should repent with all of our hearts, minds, and strength. The prophet wrote,

16 Wash yourselves clean:
remove your wicked deeds
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil.
17 Learn to do good: demand justice,
stand up for the oppressed;
plead the cause of the fatherless,
appeal on behalf of the widow.

We must be willing and obey if we want to eat the good of the land.

Good for you Atrasado but you'd better hurry up because one of Isaiah's heavy-weight prophecies that will suprise everyone is about to befall upon us due to the invasion of modern Assyria! We haven't got much time left!

[marc]

Nice to see this! I've done something similar before, but more of it's on my blog. If it can be helpful to you, please feel free to draw from it: viewtopic.php?t=33831

[Atrasado]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

A starting place for me are the Lord's words to the Nephites when he explained,

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. (3 Nephi 23:1-3)

Not only is the Savior commanding the Nephites and us to search the words of Isaiah, but he is also giving the first key to understanding Isaiah. When the Savior says, "And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake," he isn't saying that the words of Isaiah have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. The Lord would have used the word "or" instead of and there if that were the case. He is saying that Isaiah wrote using dualism, using things that already happened or would shortly come to pass, to prophecy of things that will happen in the latter days. The Lord was telling those with eyes to see and ears to hear that all of Isaiah pertains to we who are living in the latter days.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church? It's because we don't apply ourselves to understanding Isaiah's methods of writing. I wonder if the Lord will be amused when we tell him that the Isaiah chapters were really, really hard. Maybe, but probably not in a good way. So, a couple of years ago, I decided I had better shape up, and repent of my neglect of Isaiah. It has been quite educational.

I'm sharing this on the Forum so that I can get your thoughts as I write. In no way is this a magnum opus, it's more like a young child trying to learn how to write and think. However, I will be blunt about my thoughts and will try not to shade things.

Isaiah 1
The Situation or Cause
The sons (and daughters) of Jehavah have gone seriously astray. They are described as having revolted against God, less sensible than oxen and donkeys, weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children, and apostates from Jehovah. Of the House of Israel Isaiah writes that the whole head (all of our leaders) and our whole heart (our most dedicated members) are sick and our whole body is afflicted with wounds and bruises and festering sores. He calls us Sodom and Gomorrah and says that the faithful city (I imagine this to be Salt Lake City) has become a whore (Could it be said that Utah sold itself to host the Winter Olympics and in a host of other ways?), full of murderers, ruled by those who love bribes and rewards, unjust to the poor and helpless, and full of cultists who have groves like Canaanites and Philistines that corrupted ancient Israel. The Lord hates our attendance at sacrament meetings and the temple because we are hypocrites, love iniquity, and do not help the poor. He hates the Fast and Testimony meetings that we have at the start of the new month. Our hands are full of blood, probably because of our murders and our support of our tyrannical governments here in the West.

The Effect
Because of this our land will soon be ruined and our cities will soon be burned with fire by foreigners. Almost everyone will die for there will be few survivors. The Lord will avenge himself of the enemies he has in his own house, will destroy thieves and criminals, and will destroy the elite and mighty. He will cleanse the City of Righteousness and purify the dross out of the silver. Judges and counsellors will be restored to Zion as at first and the repentant will be redeemed.

What Should We Do?
We should repent with all of our hearts, minds, and strength. The prophet wrote,

16 Wash yourselves clean:
remove your wicked deeds
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil.
17 Learn to do good: demand justice,
stand up for the oppressed;
plead the cause of the fatherless,
appeal on behalf of the widow.

We must be willing and obey if we want to eat the good of the land.

Good for you Atrasado but you'd better hurry up because one of Isaiah's heavy-weight prophecies that will suprise everyone is about to befall upon us due to the invasion of modern Assyria! We haven't got much time left!

I know. Good luck telling that to most people, though. They seem to think, or at least hope, "Tomorrow will be like today, only far better!" (Isaiah 56:12) And thus they miss foreseeing the looming catastrophe.

[TwochurchesOnly]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

A starting place for me are the Lord's words to the Nephites when he explained,

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. (3 Nephi 23:1-3)

Not only is the Savior commanding the Nephites and us to search the words of Isaiah, but he is also giving the first key to understanding Isaiah. When the Savior says, "And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake," he isn't saying that the words of Isaiah have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. The Lord would have used the word "or" instead of and there if that were the case. He is saying that Isaiah wrote using dualism, using things that already happened or would shortly come to pass, to prophecy of things that will happen in the latter days. The Lord was telling those with eyes to see and ears to hear that all of Isaiah pertains to we who are living in the latter days.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church? It's because we don't apply ourselves to understanding Isaiah's methods of writing. I wonder if the Lord will be amused when we tell him that the Isaiah chapters were really, really hard. Maybe, but probably not in a good way. So, a couple of years ago, I decided I had better shape up, and repent of my neglect of Isaiah. It has been quite educational.

I'm sharing this on the Forum so that I can get your thoughts as I write. In no way is this a magnum opus, it's more like a young child trying to learn how to write and think. However, I will be blunt about my thoughts and will try not to shade things.

Isaiah 1
The Situation or Cause
The sons (and daughters) of Jehavah have gone seriously astray. They are described as having revolted against God, less sensible than oxen and donkeys, weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children, and apostates from Jehovah. Of the House of Israel Isaiah writes that the whole head (all of our leaders) and our whole heart (our most dedicated members) are sick and our whole body is afflicted with wounds and bruises and festering sores. He calls us Sodom and Gomorrah and says that the faithful city (I imagine this to be Salt Lake City) has become a whore (Could it be said that Utah sold itself to host the Winter Olympics and in a host of other ways?), full of murderers, ruled by those who love bribes and rewards, unjust to the poor and helpless, and full of cultists who have groves like Canaanites and Philistines that corrupted ancient Israel. The Lord hates our attendance at sacrament meetings and the temple because we are hypocrites, love iniquity, and do not help the poor. He hates the Fast and Testimony meetings that we have at the start of the new month. Our hands are full of blood, probably because of our murders and our support of our tyrannical governments here in the West.

The Effect
Because of this our land will soon be ruined and our cities will soon be burned with fire by foreigners. Almost everyone will die for there will be few survivors. The Lord will avenge himself of the enemies he has in his own house, will destroy thieves and criminals, and will destroy the elite and mighty. He will cleanse the City of Righteousness and purify the dross out of the silver. Judges and counsellors will be restored to Zion as at first and the repentant will be redeemed.

What Should We Do?
We should repent with all of our hearts, minds, and strength. The prophet wrote,

16 Wash yourselves clean:
remove your wicked deeds
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil.
17 Learn to do good: demand justice,
stand up for the oppressed;
plead the cause of the fatherless,
appeal on behalf of the widow.

We must be willing and obey if we want to eat the good of the land.

Thank you for sharing all of this
I remember comments from members, joking about skipping over Isaiah when reading BoM - it was just too difficult to read let alone understand - not really necessary.
I have read & learned more of Isaiah here on this forum than I have my whole life --I am grateful
"Great are the words of Isaiah " rings in my mind -
Awakening to our awful situation has confirmed to my soul the commandment to search the words of Isaiah

[Shawn Henry]

Good for you Atrasado but you'd better hurry up because one of Isaiah's heavy-weight prophecies that will suprise everyone is about to befall upon us due to the invasion of modern Assyria! We haven't got much time left!

The civil war comes first.

[Shawn Henry]

therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.

Here's a big hint about the "has been" and "shall be". The gentiles are the ones in the future who receive the dual fulfillment and it would, of course, be during the times of the gentiles and culminate before their day ends.

[LDS Physician]

Nice to see this! I've done something similar before, but more of it's on my blog. If it can be helpful to you, please feel free to draw from it: viewtopic.php?t=33831

I’d love to see your blog. Have a link?

[Libertas Est Salus]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

Thanks for your post. I look forward to reading your insights on each chapter.

As a side note, you did an excellent job here, handling acknowledgement of Gileadi's enormous contribution while clarifying that we must have the Holy Ghost's guidance in gaining understanding through Gileadi's work. I can't say enough good about Gileadi, but I'm also careful not to treat him as if he himself were the authority (although he certainly seems to deserve the status of *an* authority of sorts on Isaiah). There are things I disagree with him on, but not many—and even then, I still hold out the possibility that he's right and I'm wrong on those things.

[Libertas Est Salus]

Good for you Atrasado but you'd better hurry up because one of Isaiah's heavy-weight prophecies that will suprise everyone is about to befall upon us due to the invasion of modern Assyria! We haven't got much time left!

The civil war comes first.

I have no dispute with this and I don't ask this as a challenge but rather so that I can educate myself: can you point me to the chapter(s) or verse(s) for this? I've long believed we would see a civil war. And frankly it doesn't make much sense for someone to argue the civil war occurs *after* the assyrian attack. You've just piqued my curiosity.

[marc]

Nice to see this! I've done something similar before, but more of it's on my blog. If it can be helpful to you, please feel free to draw from it: viewtopic.php?t=33831

I’d love to see your blog. Have a link?

https://latterdaylamanite.com/

[Being There]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

A starting place for me are the Lord's words to the Nephites when he explained,

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. (3 Nephi 23:1-3)

Not only is the Savior commanding the Nephites and us to search the words of Isaiah, but he is also giving the first key to understanding Isaiah. When the Savior says, "And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake," he isn't saying that the words of Isaiah have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. The Lord would have used the word "or" instead of and there if that were the case. He is saying that Isaiah wrote using dualism, using things that already happened or would shortly come to pass, to prophecy of things that will happen in the latter days. The Lord was telling those with eyes to see and ears to hear that all of Isaiah pertains to we who are living in the latter days.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church? It's because we don't apply ourselves to understanding Isaiah's methods of writing. I wonder if the Lord will be amused when we tell him that the Isaiah chapters were really, really hard. Maybe, but probably not in a good way. So, a couple of years ago, I decided I had better shape up, and repent of my neglect of Isaiah. It has been quite educational.

I'm sharing this on the Forum so that I can get your thoughts as I write. In no way is this a magnum opus, it's more like a young child trying to learn how to write and think. However, I will be blunt about my thoughts and will try not to shade things.

Isaiah 1
The Situation or Cause
The sons (and daughters) of Jehavah have gone seriously astray. They are described as having revolted against God, less sensible than oxen and donkeys, weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children, and apostates from Jehovah. Of the House of Israel Isaiah writes that the whole head (all of our leaders) and our whole heart (our most dedicated members) are sick and our whole body is afflicted with wounds and bruises and festering sores. He calls us Sodom and Gomorrah and says that the faithful city (I imagine this to be Salt Lake City) has become a whore (Could it be said that Utah sold itself to host the Winter Olympics and in a host of other ways?), full of murderers, ruled by those who love bribes and rewards, unjust to the poor and helpless, and full of cultists who have groves like Canaanites and Philistines that corrupted ancient Israel. The Lord hates our attendance at sacrament meetings and the temple because we are hypocrites, love iniquity, and do not help the poor. He hates the Fast and Testimony meetings that we have at the start of the new month. Our hands are full of blood, probably because of our murders and our support of our tyrannical governments here in the West.

The Effect
Because of this our land will soon be ruined and our cities will soon be burned with fire by foreigners. Almost everyone will die for there will be few survivors. The Lord will avenge himself of the enemies he has in his own house, will destroy thieves and criminals, and will destroy the elite and mighty. He will cleanse the City of Righteousness and purify the dross out of the silver. Judges and counsellors will be restored to Zion as at first and the repentant will be redeemed.

What Should We Do?
We should repent with all of our hearts, minds, and strength. The prophet wrote,

16 Wash yourselves clean:
remove your wicked deeds
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil.
17 Learn to do good: demand justice,
stand up for the oppressed;
plead the cause of the fatherless,
appeal on behalf of the widow.

We must be willing and obey if we want to eat the good of the land.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church?

"The spirit of prophecy"
which LDS church leaders lack.

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

[Wendyw]

A true prophet would preach repentance and to come unto Christ with a broken heart and contrite spirit. A true prophet would not declare, "All is well in Zion!".

[Shawn Henry]

I have no dispute with this and I don't ask this as a challenge but rather so that I can educate myself: can you point me to the chapter(s) or verse(s) for this? I've long believed we would see a civil war. And frankly it doesn't make much sense for someone to argue the civil war occurs *after* the assyrian attack. You've just piqued my curiosity.

Chapter 19, The Burden of Egypt (America is latter-day Egypt)
1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.

[Libertas Est Salus]

I have no dispute with this and I don't ask this as a challenge but rather so that I can educate myself: can you point me to the chapter(s) or verse(s) for this? I've long believed we would see a civil war. And frankly it doesn't make much sense for someone to argue the civil war occurs *after* the assyrian attack. You've just piqued my curiosity.

Chapter 19, The Burden of Egypt (America is latter-day Egypt)
1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.

Thank you!

[Bronco73idi]

Good for you Atrasado but you'd better hurry up because one of Isaiah's heavy-weight prophecies that will suprise everyone is about to befall upon us due to the invasion of modern Assyria! We haven't got much time left!

The civil war comes first.

I have no dispute with this and I don't ask this as a challenge but rather so that I can educate myself: can you point me to the chapter(s) or verse(s) for this? I've long believed we would see a civil war. And frankly it doesn't make much sense for someone to argue the civil war occurs *after* the assyrian attack. You've just piqued my curiosity.

The civil war is father against son, mother against daughter. To say household against household is another way of saying civil war. The lord talks about that, when he talks about it he is saying that it happens to his disciples and people. We can see this in Matthew 10:34-36 and Luke 12:49-57.

Isaiah talks more globally, like Revelations and Daniel

[Niemand]

You need to link these articles together. When I have written that long series of articles on Apocrypha etc, I put links at the end to avoid all the articles being lost. The search function on this forum is far from perfect and it is a way around it.

[ransomme]

I have no dispute with this and I don't ask this as a challenge but rather so that I can educate myself: can you point me to the chapter(s) or verse(s) for this? I've long believed we would see a civil war. And frankly it doesn't make much sense for someone to argue the civil war occurs *after* the assyrian attack. You've just piqued my curiosity.

Chapter 19, The Burden of Egypt (America is latter-day Egypt)
1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.

I'd also add this pattern in the BoM
Helaman 10: 17-18
17 And it came to pass that thus he did go forth in the Spirit, from multitude to multitude, declaring the word of God, even until he had declared it unto them all, or sent it forth among all the people.
18 And it came to pass that they would not hearken unto his words; and there began to be contentions, insomuch that they were divided against themselves and began to slay one another with the sword.

And the D&C
D&C 45:68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

D&C 87:5-8
5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.
6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations;
7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.
8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.

[ransomme]

The civil war comes first.

I have no dispute with this and I don't ask this as a challenge but rather so that I can educate myself: can you point me to the chapter(s) or verse(s) for this? I've long believed we would see a civil war. And frankly it doesn't make much sense for someone to argue the civil war occurs *after* the assyrian attack. You've just piqued my curiosity.

The civil war is father against son, mother against daughter. To say household against household is another way of saying civil war. The lord talks about that, when he talks about it he is saying that it happens to his disciples and people. We can see this in Matthew 10:34-36 and Luke 12:49-57.

Isaiah talks more globally, like Revelations and Daniel

Isaiah talks specifics too, using codewords. Revelation has many specifics too.

[simpleton]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

A starting place for me are the Lord's words to the Nephites when he explained,

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. (3 Nephi 23:1-3)

Not only is the Savior commanding the Nephites and us to search the words of Isaiah, but he is also giving the first key to understanding Isaiah. When the Savior says, "And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake," he isn't saying that the words of Isaiah have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. The Lord would have used the word "or" instead of and there if that were the case. He is saying that Isaiah wrote using dualism, using things that already happened or would shortly come to pass, to prophecy of things that will happen in the latter days. The Lord was telling those with eyes to see and ears to hear that all of Isaiah pertains to we who are living in the latter days.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church? It's because we don't apply ourselves to understanding Isaiah's methods of writing. I wonder if the Lord will be amused when we tell him that the Isaiah chapters were really, really hard. Maybe, but probably not in a good way. So, a couple of years ago, I decided I had better shape up, and repent of my neglect of Isaiah. It has been quite educational.

I'm sharing this on the Forum so that I can get your thoughts as I write. In no way is this a magnum opus, it's more like a young child trying to learn how to write and think. However, I will be blunt about my thoughts and will try not to shade things.

Isaiah 1
The Situation or Cause
The sons (and daughters) of Jehavah have gone seriously astray. They are described as having revolted against God, less sensible than oxen and donkeys, weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children, and apostates from Jehovah. Of the House of Israel Isaiah writes that the whole head (all of our leaders) and our whole heart (our most dedicated members) are sick and our whole body is afflicted with wounds and bruises and festering sores. He calls us Sodom and Gomorrah and says that the faithful city (I imagine this to be Salt Lake City) has become a whore (Could it be said that Utah sold itself to host the Winter Olympics and in a host of other ways?), full of murderers, ruled by those who love bribes and rewards, unjust to the poor and helpless, and full of cultists who have groves like Canaanites and Philistines that corrupted ancient Israel. The Lord hates our attendance at sacrament meetings and the temple because we are hypocrites, love iniquity, and do not help the poor. He hates the Fast and Testimony meetings that we have at the start of the new month. Our hands are full of blood, probably because of our murders and our support of our tyrannical governments here in the West.

The Effect
Because of this our land will soon be ruined and our cities will soon be burned with fire by foreigners. Almost everyone will die for there will be few survivors. The Lord will avenge himself of the enemies he has in his own house, will destroy thieves and criminals, and will destroy the elite and mighty. He will cleanse the City of Righteousness and purify the dross out of the silver. Judges and counsellors will be restored to Zion as at first and the repentant will be redeemed.

What Should We Do?
We should repent with all of our hearts, minds, and strength. The prophet wrote,

16 Wash yourselves clean:
remove your wicked deeds
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil.
17 Learn to do good: demand justice,
stand up for the oppressed;
plead the cause of the fatherless,
appeal on behalf of the widow.

We must be willing and obey if we want to eat the good of the land.

What exactly is Isaiah referring to, in that we are murderers and our hands are full of blood do you suppose....

[Being There]

Good for you Atrasado but you'd better hurry up because one of Isaiah's heavy-weight prophecies that will suprise everyone is about to befall upon us due to the invasion of modern Assyria! We haven't got much time left!

The civil war comes first.

I have no dispute with this and I don't ask this as a challenge but rather so that I can educate myself: can you point me to the chapter(s) or verse(s) for this? I've long believed we would see a civil war. And frankly it doesn't make much sense for someone to argue the civil war occurs *after* the assyrian attack. You've just piqued my curiosity.

*** civil war

When Jehovah enters Egypt riding on swift clouds, the idols of Egypt will rock at his presence

In the book of Isaiah
Egypt, the super power always refers to the U.S.
Assyria - I believe could be modern-day Russia.- the beast - the bear.
The Lord uses him - His left hand - the king of Assyria - to be a scourge to us.


Gileadi

The Struggle within America—Isaiah Saw It

The importance of understanding Isaiah’s message increases daily as world events line up like the planets for the fulfillment of his prophecy.
Under the codename “Egypt”—the great superpower of Isaiah’s day—America is predicted to suffer spiritual decline, political ineptitude, economic collapse, internal anarchy, and invasion by a ruthless military world power from the North—an end-time “Assyria.”
On the other hand, a community of covenanters in Egypt turns back to God, who sends them a savior and delivers them (Isaiah 19–20). In the end, as the millennial age begins, “Egypt” again becomes “my people”—a righteous covenant people of God (Isaiah 19:25).

Isaiah 19 (in Isaiah - "Egypt is the U.S.)

"Isaiah 19 addresses the destruction and invasion of modern-day “Egypt”(America) by foreign invaders,
and the “cruel lord and a fierce king” who leads them. He is Isaiah’s “king of Assyria.”
Isaiah 19 also addresses the events that precede this foreign invasion.
There is civil war here first in verse 2. It is brought on by drought in verse 5,
the failure of various kinds of leaders in verses 11-14, and economic collapse in verse 15. "

1 An oracle concerning Egypt:
When Jehovah enters Egypt riding on swift clouds, the idols of Egypt will rock at his presence
and the Egyptians’ hearts melt within them.

Ancient Egypt, where Israel’s ancestors found refuge—birthplace of the birthright tribe of Ephraim, and of Moses, Israel’s deliverer—typifies a land with strong ties between Jehovah’s end-time people and end-time “Egypt.” In the Book of Isaiah’s apocalyptic context—when history repeats itself—the world’s superpower codenamed “Egypt” forms a part of Isaiah’s Greater Babylon and suffers covenant curses in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment.
So great is Egypt’s desolation on the heels of Jehovah’s “swift clouds” that its people’s hearts “melt within them” as in Isaiah’s vision of Babylon (Isaiah 13:6-8).

*** civil war
2 I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians; they will fight brother against brother and neighbor against neighbor,
city against city and state against state.
3 Egypt’s spirit shall be drained from within; I will frustrate their plans, and they will resort to the idols and to spiritists,
to mediums and witchcraft.

Anarchy and civil war in the great superpower of the world form the prelude to its desolation. As much of the land is destroyed from within, Egypt’s enemies see their chance to invade from without. When Jehovah withdraws his Spirit because of a people’s evildoing, they are left to their own devices. Their alienation causes Jehovah to close the heavens. They lose the light they once had, and a man’s adversaries become those of his own people. Desperate, they turn to false channels of information—idols, spiritists, mediums, and witchcraft—only to compound their plight (Isaiah 8:19-20; 42:17; 44:17; 45:20).

4 Then will I deliver the Egyptians into the hand of a cruel master; a harsh ruler will subject them,says the Lord, Jehovah of Hosts.

The nation of Egypt in Isaiah’s day was ruled by a non-native Afro-Egyptian (Cushite) pharaoh of Egypt’s 25th dynasty (760-656 B.C.) (cf. Isaiah 18:1; 20:3-5).
This was a period of extensive government programs but of moral decline that set the stage for Assyria’s invasion and conquest of Egypt. Like ancient Egypt, end-time “Egypt” deteriorates politically (vv 11-15), experiences economic hardship (vv 8-10), and suffers severe drought conditions (vv 5-7). Egypt—the breadbasket of the world—is reduced to poverty.
Only the God of Israel, who rules over all nations, is able to save Egypt (vv 20-24).


Isaiah 7
17 Jehovah will bring upon you and your people and your father’s house a day unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—the day of the king of Assyria.

A time of national tragedy is to ensue—as when “Ephraim broke away from Judah” and Jehovah’s people became a house divided against itself (1 Kings 11:29-32; 12:19-21). Jehovah appoints the king of Assyria as his instrument to afflict his people who reject him (Isaiah 10:5-6). As his people’s king and protector—as their proxy representative—Ahaz, by his disloyalty to Israel’s God, directly impacts what happens to his people. It is just a matter of time, too, before Isaiah’s pronouncement is fulfilled and a righteous “son” or vassal (ben)—Immanuel—replaces the unrighteous Ahaz (vv 14-16).

18 In that day Jehovah will signal for the flies from the far rivers of Egypt and for the bees in the land of Assyria.
19 And they will come and settle with one accord in the river beds of the prairie and in rocky ravines, and by all ditches and water holes.
20 In that day my Lord will use a razor hired at the River—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to cut off even your beard.

Foreign armies, represented by swarms of flies and bees, invade the land in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment, implementing his covenant curse. The king of Assyria—Jehovah’s razor—takes captive the wicked of Jehovah’s people, shaving their hair in the manner of slaves. Historically referring to the Euphrates, the “River” (nahar) here characterizes the archtyrant as Lord Nahar—Lord River—a god of chaos in the Baal myth. The words “head” and “beard” allude to the people’s leaders (Isaiah 3:14; 9:15) whom the Assyrians exile first, as they did anciently, leaving the people leaderless.


Isaiah 20
Assyria subjugates the superpower Egypt after Jehovah’s prophet–servant gives three years’ warning.

1 In the year the general who was sent by Sargon king of Assyria came to Ashdod and took it by combat,
2 Jehovah had spoken through Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and ungird the sackcloth from your loins and remove the shoes from your feet. And he had done so, going naked and barefoot.
3 Then Jehovah said, Just as my servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot for three years as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush,
4 so shall the king of Assyria lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, both young and old, naked and barefoot, with buttocks uncovered—to Egypt’s shame.


Although Isaiah is already in a state of mourning because of the wickedness of Jehovah’s people and Assyria’s aggressiveness, Jehovah now asks him to go naked and barefoot as a “sign and portent” against Egypt and Cush (cf. Isaiah 8:18). Exposing himself to the elements and to people’s mockery, Isaiah—“my servant”—obeys. As a type of Jehovah’s end-time servant, Isaiah gives warning of Assyria’s invasion of Egypt and Cush (Upper Egypt) and of the humiliation of their captives. They have three years in which to repent before three years of Jehovah’s Day of Judgment overtake them (cf. Isaiah 16:14).

5 Men shall be appalled and perplexed at Cush, their hope, and at Egypt, their boast.
6 In that day shall the inhabitants of this isle say, See what has become of those we looked up to, on whom we relied for help and deliverance from the king of Assyria! How shall we ourselves escape?

The nations of the world who rely on Egypt’s military might to protect them see their hopes dashed when Assyria ravishes Egypt and Cush (Upper Egypt): “Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help, relying on horses, putting their trust in immense numbers of chariots and vast forces of horsemen, but who do not look to the Holy One of Israel, nor inquire of Jehovah!” (Isaiah 31:1); “Pharaoh’s protection shall turn to your shame, shelter in Egypt’s shadow to embarrassment” (Isaiah 30:2).
Without Jehovah’s divine intervention, the great superpower the world so admired proves no match for Assyria.

search "king of Assyria" https://www.isaiahexplained.com/search? ... of+Assyria
search "Assyria" https://www.isaiahexplained.com/search?search=Assyria

[Bronco73idi]

I have no dispute with this and I don't ask this as a challenge but rather so that I can educate myself: can you point me to the chapter(s) or verse(s) for this? I've long believed we would see a civil war. And frankly it doesn't make much sense for someone to argue the civil war occurs *after* the assyrian attack. You've just piqued my curiosity.

The civil war is father against son, mother against daughter. To say household against household is another way of saying civil war. The lord talks about that, when he talks about it he is saying that it happens to his disciples and people. We can see this in Matthew 10:34-36 and Luke 12:49-57.

Isaiah talks more globally, like Revelations and Daniel

Isaiah talks specifics too, using codewords. Revelation has many specifics too.

Honestly I haven’t seen them personally, do you have a verse that you would share that points to the house of Israel (tribe of Ephraim) war against its self?

[Atrasado]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

A starting place for me are the Lord's words to the Nephites when he explained,

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake. (3 Nephi 23:1-3)

Not only is the Savior commanding the Nephites and us to search the words of Isaiah, but he is also giving the first key to understanding Isaiah. When the Savior says, "And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake," he isn't saying that the words of Isaiah have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. The Lord would have used the word "or" instead of and there if that were the case. He is saying that Isaiah wrote using dualism, using things that already happened or would shortly come to pass, to prophecy of things that will happen in the latter days. The Lord was telling those with eyes to see and ears to hear that all of Isaiah pertains to we who are living in the latter days.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church? It's because we don't apply ourselves to understanding Isaiah's methods of writing. I wonder if the Lord will be amused when we tell him that the Isaiah chapters were really, really hard. Maybe, but probably not in a good way. So, a couple of years ago, I decided I had better shape up, and repent of my neglect of Isaiah. It has been quite educational.

I'm sharing this on the Forum so that I can get your thoughts as I write. In no way is this a magnum opus, it's more like a young child trying to learn how to write and think. However, I will be blunt about my thoughts and will try not to shade things.

Isaiah 1
The Situation or Cause
The sons (and daughters) of Jehavah have gone seriously astray. They are described as having revolted against God, less sensible than oxen and donkeys, weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children, and apostates from Jehovah. Of the House of Israel Isaiah writes that the whole head (all of our leaders) and our whole heart (our most dedicated members) are sick and our whole body is afflicted with wounds and bruises and festering sores. He calls us Sodom and Gomorrah and says that the faithful city (I imagine this to be Salt Lake City) has become a whore (Could it be said that Utah sold itself to host the Winter Olympics and in a host of other ways?), full of murderers, ruled by those who love bribes and rewards, unjust to the poor and helpless, and full of cultists who have groves like Canaanites and Philistines that corrupted ancient Israel. The Lord hates our attendance at sacrament meetings and the temple because we are hypocrites, love iniquity, and do not help the poor. He hates the Fast and Testimony meetings that we have at the start of the new month. Our hands are full of blood, probably because of our murders and our support of our tyrannical governments here in the West.

The Effect
Because of this our land will soon be ruined and our cities will soon be burned with fire by foreigners. Almost everyone will die for there will be few survivors. The Lord will avenge himself of the enemies he has in his own house, will destroy thieves and criminals, and will destroy the elite and mighty. He will cleanse the City of Righteousness and purify the dross out of the silver. Judges and counsellors will be restored to Zion as at first and the repentant will be redeemed.

What Should We Do?
We should repent with all of our hearts, minds, and strength. The prophet wrote,

16 Wash yourselves clean:
remove your wicked deeds
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil.
17 Learn to do good: demand justice,
stand up for the oppressed;
plead the cause of the fatherless,
appeal on behalf of the widow.

We must be willing and obey if we want to eat the good of the land.

What exactly is Isaiah referring to, in that we are murderers and our hands are full of blood do you suppose....

We support, or many of us on this board did at one time, governments that are murderous in their oppression of many countries. Any American or Brit that supported the Gulf Wars, or the war in Ukraine, or has supported the murderous regimes that have ruled in the West for many decades have blood on their hands.

We can say that we didn't personally do it, but have we really worked against the warlords like Tony Blair, Bill Clinton, Barak Obama, or George Bush that have destroyed countries like Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Libya, and Syria? I supported the first Gulf War and the second one, at first. I have protested the wars since, but still worked for the US Navy for six or seven years, even after I started to understand what is really going on.

Perhaps I'm not a murderer, per se, but I'm certainly not innocent and I do bear responsibility for not talking my duties as a citizen more seriously in preventing needless and wicked wars of subjugation.

[simpleton]

For my own edification, I'm going to write my own analysis of each of Isaiah's chapters. This is going to lean heavily on Gileadi's translation and thoughts, which I would like to acknowledge at the start, and will likely have some Rob Smith, as well. It should be noted, however, that Gileadi's words only have value as they are given to him and us by the Holy Ghost. However, it should be noted with gratitude the efforts that Gileadi and Smith went through to bring us knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have.

A starting place for me are the Lord's words to the Nephites when he explained,

Not only is the Savior commanding the Nephites and us to search the words of Isaiah, but he is also giving the first key to understanding Isaiah. When the Savior says, "And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake," he isn't saying that the words of Isaiah have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled. The Lord would have used the word "or" instead of and there if that were the case. He is saying that Isaiah wrote using dualism, using things that already happened or would shortly come to pass, to prophecy of things that will happen in the latter days. The Lord was telling those with eyes to see and ears to hear that all of Isaiah pertains to we who are living in the latter days.

So why do we understand Isaiah so poorly as a Church? It's because we don't apply ourselves to understanding Isaiah's methods of writing. I wonder if the Lord will be amused when we tell him that the Isaiah chapters were really, really hard. Maybe, but probably not in a good way. So, a couple of years ago, I decided I had better shape up, and repent of my neglect of Isaiah. It has been quite educational.

I'm sharing this on the Forum so that I can get your thoughts as I write. In no way is this a magnum opus, it's more like a young child trying to learn how to write and think. However, I will be blunt about my thoughts and will try not to shade things.

Isaiah 1
The Situation or Cause
The sons (and daughters) of Jehavah have gone seriously astray. They are described as having revolted against God, less sensible than oxen and donkeys, weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children, and apostates from Jehovah. Of the House of Israel Isaiah writes that the whole head (all of our leaders) and our whole heart (our most dedicated members) are sick and our whole body is afflicted with wounds and bruises and festering sores. He calls us Sodom and Gomorrah and says that the faithful city (I imagine this to be Salt Lake City) has become a whore (Could it be said that Utah sold itself to host the Winter Olympics and in a host of other ways?), full of murderers, ruled by those who love bribes and rewards, unjust to the poor and helpless, and full of cultists who have groves like Canaanites and Philistines that corrupted ancient Israel. The Lord hates our attendance at sacrament meetings and the temple because we are hypocrites, love iniquity, and do not help the poor. He hates the Fast and Testimony meetings that we have at the start of the new month. Our hands are full of blood, probably because of our murders and our support of our tyrannical governments here in the West.

The Effect
Because of this our land will soon be ruined and our cities will soon be burned with fire by foreigners. Almost everyone will die for there will be few survivors. The Lord will avenge himself of the enemies he has in his own house, will destroy thieves and criminals, and will destroy the elite and mighty. He will cleanse the City of Righteousness and purify the dross out of the silver. Judges and counsellors will be restored to Zion as at first and the repentant will be redeemed.

What Should We Do?
We should repent with all of our hearts, minds, and strength. The prophet wrote,

We must be willing and obey if we want to eat the good of the land.

What exactly is Isaiah referring to, in that we are murderers and our hands are full of blood do you suppose....

We support, or many of us on this board did at one time, governments that are murderous in their oppression of many countries. Any American or Brit that supported the Gulf Wars, or the war in Ukraine, or has supported the murderous regimes that have ruled in the West for many decades have blood on their hands.

We can say that we didn't personally do it, but have we really worked against the warlords like Tony Blair, Bill Clinton, Barak Obama, or George Bush that have destroyed countries like Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Libya, and Syria? I supported the first Gulf War and the second one, at first. I have protested the wars since, but still worked for the US Navy for six or seven years, even after I started to understand what is really going on.

Perhaps I'm not a murderer, per se, but I'm certainly not innocent and I do bear responsibility for not talking my duties as a citizen more seriously in preventing needless and wicked wars of subjugation.

I wonder if it's actually much closer to home. As in the murder of our offspring. Not to minimize what you are talking about, and I suppose that applies. But the more heinous crimes are right in our own homes and hospitals.

[ransomme]

The civil war is father against son, mother against daughter. To say household against household is another way of saying civil war. The lord talks about that, when he talks about it he is saying that it happens to his disciples and people. We can see this in Matthew 10:34-36 and Luke 12:49-57.

Isaiah talks more globally, like Revelations and Daniel

Isaiah talks specifics too, using codewords. Revelation has many specifics too.

Honestly I haven’t seen them personally, do you have a verse that you would share that points to the house of Israel (tribe of Ephraim) war against its self?

The civil war they are talking about is in Egypt, aka America.