Does the church hate us?

[Ado]

I was studying Matthew 24 today. Beginning in verse 3, the disciples privately ask Jesus to tell them what the sign of His return and the end of the age will be. Jesus goes into a list of things after prefacing His response with “See that no one leads you astray.”
So my question: beginning in verse 9 says that they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. Many will fall away, betray one another, hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and lead many astray…
Did church leaders deliver us up to tribulation and place the stumbling blocks that would lead to our offense (verse 10)? Or are they the false prophets who opportunistically arose from the disunity and hatred among Christian’s?
Perhaps it is both. That’s what I am more and more inclined to think. Let me know what you think.

[RosyPosy]

I would first say council with God on this subject matter.

In my book the current LDS church leaders are not to be listened to. They ally with secret combinations.

I since have dropped the title of LDS or Mormon.

[Maroriginal1]

I was studying Matthew 24 today. Beginning in verse 3, the disciples privately ask Jesus to tell them what the sign of His return and the end of the age will be. Jesus goes into a list of things after prefacing His response with “See that no one leads you astray.”
So my question: beginning in verse 9 says that they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. Many will fall away, betray one another, hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and lead many astray…
Did church leaders deliver us up to tribulation and place the stumbling blocks that would lead to our offense (verse 10)? Or are they the false prophets who opportunistically arose from the disunity and hatred among Christian’s?
Perhaps it is both. That’s what I am more and more inclined to think. Let me know what you think.

I recently studied this chapter with similar questions and noticed that it prefaces with a “beginning” and clarifies with an “end” of sorrows. We know what the end is. The real question is when is the beginning? Is it when the original apostles were killed or the restored gospel?
I lean towards the beginning of sorrows is the great apostasy with the killing of the apostles. The primary clue is that Christ tells the apostles directly that THEY will be killed. The time that follows is filled with false prophets, wars, and turmoil. This is all historically accurate. He then describes this as a period of “enduring” until the end. Enduring is suffering over a long period of time. This also fits with with a pattern of labor. The first part of labor is very long with large gaps of time compared to the final stage of delivery. I believe Christ is explaining the end time events from their time to the very end.

[Ado]

I was studying Matthew 24 today. Beginning in verse 3, the disciples privately ask Jesus to tell them what the sign of His return and the end of the age will be. Jesus goes into a list of things after prefacing His response with “See that no one leads you astray.”
So my question: beginning in verse 9 says that they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. Many will fall away, betray one another, hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and lead many astray…
Did church leaders deliver us up to tribulation and place the stumbling blocks that would lead to our offense (verse 10)? Or are they the false prophets who opportunistically arose from the disunity and hatred among Christian’s?
Perhaps it is both. That’s what I am more and more inclined to think. Let me know what you think.

I recently studied this chapter with similar questions and noticed that it prefaces with a “beginning” and clarifies with an “end” of sorrows. We know what the end is. The real question is when is the beginning? Is it when the original apostles were killed or the restored gospel?
I lean towards the beginning of sorrows is the great apostasy with the killing of the apostles. The primary clue is that Christ tells the apostles directly that THEY will be killed. The time that follows is filled with false prophets, wars, and turmoil. This is all historically accurate. He then describes this as a period of “enduring” until the end. Enduring is suffering over a long period of time. This also fits with with a pattern of labor. The first part of labor is very long with large gaps of time compared to the final stage of delivery. I believe Christ is explaining the end time events from their time to the very end.

Amen. That is the same conclusion I came to when I tried to read it more exigetically.

[Luke]

“You will live to see men arise in power in the Church who will seek to put down your friends and the friends of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Many will be hoisted because of their money and the worldly learning which they seem to be in possession of; and many who are the true followers of our Lord and Savior will be cast down because of their poverty.” (Joseph Smith, Mosiah Lyman Hancock Autobiography, typescript, HBLL)

“I will say this you will be called the first Elders of the Church and your Mission will be to the Nations of the Earth you will gather many people into the fastnesses of the Rocky Mountains as a centre for the gathering of the people and you will be faithful because you have been true and among many of those who come in under your ministry, on account of their much learning (will) seek for high places. And they will be set up and raise themselves to eminence above you, but you will walk in low places unnoticed and you will know all that transpires in their minds, and those that are your friends are my friends
This I will promise you that when I come again to lead you forth for I will go to prepare a place for you so that where I am you will be.” (Joseph Smith, 22 June 1844, Alfred Bell Report, as quoted in William B. Pace, Notebook, circa 1885, CHL)

[Thinker]

… “See that no one leads you astray.”
So my question: beginning in verse 9 says that they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. Many will fall away, betray one another, hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and lead many astray…
Did church leaders deliver us up to tribulation and place the stumbling blocks that would lead to our offense (verse 10)? Or are they the false prophets who opportunistically arose from the disunity and hatred among Christian’s?
Perhaps it is both. That’s what I am more and more inclined to think. Let me know what you think.

Some of us who have openly resisted or questioned authority have experienced hatred. Anyone who speaks truth that is inconvenient, will be hated by those who love lies more than truth.


Deeper down the rabbit hole…

Quotes from the Je wish Talmud: (Note that ‘goy’ is anyone not Je wish)

“The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)

“How to Kill Goyim (non-Jews) and Influence People.”

• “Upon its publication in 2009, Torat Ha’Melech sparked a national uproar. The controversy began when the Israeli paper, Maariv, panned the book’s contents as “230 pages on the laws concerning the killing of non-Jews, a kind of guidebook for anyone who ponders the question of if and when it is permissible to take the life of a non-Jew.” The description was absolutely accurate.”

[Thinker]

…Quotes from the Je wish Talmud: (Note that ‘goy’ is anyone not Je wish)

“The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)

“How to Kill Goyim (non-Jews) and Influence People.”

• “Upon its publication in 2009, Torat Ha’Melech sparked a national uproar. The controversy began when the Israeli paper, Maariv, panned the book’s contents as “230 pages on the laws concerning the killing of non-Jews, a kind of guidebook for anyone who ponders the question of if and when it is permissible to take the life of a non-Jew.” The description was absolutely accurate.”

How many members - especially those indoctrinated to deify Judaism - know a what hatred the Talmud says toward them & how some “J ews” have focused on their “religious right” to kill most people?

What if Nazis or KKK accused others of “anti-nazi” or “anti KKK” discrimination? What if free speech was denied in criticizing them?

Israel has declared speaking against the state of Israel (& speaking against the evil genocide of Palestinians) as “antisemetic” & got Trump to sign an executive order against antisemetism, which has been called illegal of Trump. Besides insane calls for mass killings in the Talmud, another insane thing many dismiss is now days, few people are 100% pure any race. We have mixed a lot over the centuries, including so called J ews.

[Ado]

“You will live to see men arise in power in the Church who will seek to put down your friends and the friends of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Many will be hoisted because of their money and the worldly learning which they seem to be in possession of; and many who are the true followers of our Lord and Savior will be cast down because of their poverty.” (Joseph Smith, Mosiah Lyman Hancock Autobiography, typescript, HBLL)

“I will say this you will be called the first Elders of the Church and your Mission will be to the Nations of the Earth you will gather many people into the fastnesses of the Rocky Mountains as a centre for the gathering of the people and you will be faithful because you have been true and among many of those who come in under your ministry, on account of their much learning (will) seek for high places. And they will be set up and raise themselves to eminence above you, but you will walk in low places unnoticed and you will know all that transpires in their minds, and those that are your friends are my friends
This I will promise you that when I come again to lead you forth for I will go to prepare a place for you so that where I am you will be.” (Joseph Smith, 22 June 1844, Alfred Bell Report, as quoted in William B. Pace, Notebook, circa 1885, CHL)

In that second quote, is the Lord speaking through Joseph, or is Joseph the one saying he will come again to lead them?

[Luke]

“You will live to see men arise in power in the Church who will seek to put down your friends and the friends of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Many will be hoisted because of their money and the worldly learning which they seem to be in possession of; and many who are the true followers of our Lord and Savior will be cast down because of their poverty.” (Joseph Smith, Mosiah Lyman Hancock Autobiography, typescript, HBLL)

“I will say this you will be called the first Elders of the Church and your Mission will be to the Nations of the Earth you will gather many people into the fastnesses of the Rocky Mountains as a centre for the gathering of the people and you will be faithful because you have been true and among many of those who come in under your ministry, on account of their much learning (will) seek for high places. And they will be set up and raise themselves to eminence above you, but you will walk in low places unnoticed and you will know all that transpires in their minds, and those that are your friends are my friends
This I will promise you that when I come again to lead you forth for I will go to prepare a place for you so that where I am you will be.” (Joseph Smith, 22 June 1844, Alfred Bell Report, as quoted in William B. Pace, Notebook, circa 1885, CHL)

In that second quote, is the Lord speaking through Joseph, or is Joseph the one saying he will come again to lead them?

It’s Joseph speaking.