Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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For those interested in learning more about Isaiah and the Davidic Servant from Avraham Gileadi and others:

Isaiah Institute Fundraiser
Virtual Conference
August 26, 2023
“Israel’s Coming Restoration”

Keynote Speaker Avraham Gileadi PhD

Come and Learn about the restoration of Israel’s twelve-tribed kingdom that forms an integral part of the “restitution of all things” in a time of spiraling world events (Acts 3:21; D&C 77:15)!

More info / Registration >

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Is it available after the conference?

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Recordings will be available for all attendees.

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Telavian
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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by Telavian »

I signed up for the conference, however will very likely watch it afterwards.

I like Gileadi and his work. The thing I can't really get is he is adamant that Joseph is not coming back and participating in any form with the end time work. He doesn't even leave any wiggle room. There is so much evidence though.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Isaiah foresaw the servant:

Isaiah 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. 4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God. 5 ¶ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength. 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

Joseph's Smith saw it:

D&C 103:15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power; 16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.

Jesus Christ declared it:

3 Nephi 21:9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them. 10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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marc wrote: August 25th, 2023, 8:46 am D&C 103:15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power; 16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
D&C 103:21
Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

Joseph is the man that D&C 101 is talking about. He is the one that is going to tear down the enemies tower and correct things.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Telavian wrote: August 25th, 2023, 8:54 am
marc wrote: August 25th, 2023, 8:46 am D&C 103:15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power; 16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
D&C 103:21
Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

Joseph is the man that D&C 101 is talking about. He is the one that is going to tear down the enemies tower and correct things.
Joseph was not a hidden servant or able to fulfill that role because the saints had polluted their inheritances, neither did Zion become redeemed with power. He was not the end time servant. Will he be resurrected to fulfill that role? Time will tell.

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Telavian
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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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marc wrote: August 25th, 2023, 9:02 am Joseph was not a hidden servant or able to fulfill that role because the saints had polluted their inheritances, neither did Zion become redeemed with power. He was not the end time servant. Will he be resurrected to fulfill that role? Time will tell.
If he does he will not be resurrected in the sense of becoming immortal.

An explanatory note written by Cowdery in Patriarchal Blessing Book 1 states that he felt a personal desire to know the mind of the Spirit concerning Joseph Smith. Cowdery “besought the Lord in prayer and fasting,” and, according to Cowdery, God “opened the heavens upon me” and provided the blessing for Joseph Smith in the form of a heavenly vision.

Blessing to Joseph from Oliver Cowdrey:
"Thus shall God bless, and thus shall he be prospered: and he shall have peace after a little; for his enemies shall be consumed, many of them, and many shall turn and be his friends in very deed: he shall remain to a good old age, even till his head is like the pure wool. Behold, there is no end to the vision, of the multiplicity of blessings and glories which shall come upon my brother Joseph. He shall possess a mansion on high and have an inheritance in that city which is like pure gold, even like transparent glass. His rest shall be glorious and his name remain forever."

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by marc »

Telavian wrote: August 25th, 2023, 9:11 am
marc wrote: August 25th, 2023, 9:02 am Joseph was not a hidden servant or able to fulfill that role because the saints had polluted their inheritances, neither did Zion become redeemed with power. He was not the end time servant. Will he be resurrected to fulfill that role? Time will tell.
If he does he will not be resurrected in the sense of becoming immortal.

An explanatory note written by Cowdery in Patriarchal Blessing Book 1 states that he felt a personal desire to know the mind of the Spirit concerning Joseph Smith. Cowdery “besought the Lord in prayer and fasting,” and, according to Cowdery, God “opened the heavens upon me” and provided the blessing for Joseph Smith in the form of a heavenly vision.

Blessing to Joseph from Oliver Cowdrey:
"Thus shall God bless, and thus shall he be prospered: and he shall have peace after a little; for his enemies shall be consumed, many of them, and many shall turn and be his friends in very deed: he shall remain to a good old age, even till his head is like the pure wool. Behold, there is no end to the vision, of the multiplicity of blessings and glories which shall come upon my brother Joseph. He shall possess a mansion on high and have an inheritance in that city which is like pure gold, even like transparent glass. His rest shall be glorious and his name remain forever."
Interesting.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by Shawn Henry »

marc wrote: August 25th, 2023, 9:02 am Joseph was not a hidden servant or able to fulfill that role because the saints had polluted their inheritances, neither did Zion become redeemed with power. He was not the end time servant. Will he be resurrected to fulfill that role? Time will tell.
You quote the very Isaiah verses that describe how the servant fails to gather Israel the first time but will try a second time and be glorious. If not Joseph, another would have to come and fail a first time, right?

Being hidden by the Lord is the fact that the knowledge of his return is hidden from the saints due to the precepts of men.

It will not be a resurrected Joseph but would have to be a born again Joseph because the language in Isaiah and the Joseph the Seer prophecy is "raise up", which means to grow up.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Telavian wrote: August 25th, 2023, 7:21 am I signed up for the conference, however will very likely watch it afterwards.

I like Gileadi and his work. The thing I can't really get is he is adamant that Joseph is not coming back and participating in any form with the end time work. He doesn't even leave any wiggle room. There is so much evidence though.
I also believe that Joseph is NOT coming back because he is the Prophet of the 6th dispensation of time and we are now in the 7th dispensation of time. The Davidic servant will come as a servant and eventually become the Prophet of the 7th dispensation.

In the book "Dynasty of the Holy Grail" mormonism's sacred bloodline. by Vern Swanson PhD, he points out and proves to my satisfaction that the Holy Grail was symbolic of the children of Jesus Christ. They were hidden from the clutches of Rome, and those hunting them. Saved by Joseph of Arimathea, as he removed Christ's family to Cornwall and Somerset where he owned Tin mines. That Joseph Smith is a descendent of his children, thus a descendent of Jesus Christ who also is a descendent of King David. That is the bloodline of God's last days servants.

Isaiah 11:1 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:"

Section 113:1 Who is the Stem of Jesse spoken of in the 1st, 2d, 3d, 4th, and 5th verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah?

2. Verily thus saith the Lord: It is Christ.

3. What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?

4. Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

Just as the children of Jesus Christ were hidden from the clutches of Rome, so also is the last days servant hidden from the clutches of the wicked.

There will probably be much debate on which dispensation we are in, 6th or 7th? Let us see what Brother Gileadi has to say?

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by marc »

Shawn Henry wrote: August 25th, 2023, 11:31 am
marc wrote: August 25th, 2023, 9:02 am Joseph was not a hidden servant or able to fulfill that role because the saints had polluted their inheritances, neither did Zion become redeemed with power. He was not the end time servant. Will he be resurrected to fulfill that role? Time will tell.
You quote the very Isaiah verses that describe how the servant fails to gather Israel the first time but will try a second time and be glorious. If not Joseph, another would have to come and fail a first time, right?
There is a difference between gathering Israel "the first" time and a "second time" with power to redeem Zion. Zion remains under condemnation. Joseph laid the foundation but is not the end-time servant.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by marc »

Sometimes, the usage of the word "servant" is archetypal. Take the allegory in Jacob 5. The "servant" labors in the vineyard through almost the entire span of the allegory's timeline. Same for the parable of the nobleman in D&C 101 when the "servant" asked the Lord when all things will be be fulfilled (verses 56-62). Same for Isaiah who uses a tapestry of archetypes. Also, "servant" can be applied in different dispensations. Scriptural history may not repeat itself identically, but the dispensations can rhyme. Jacob and Israel are specific and archetypal. Joseph is also specific and archetypal.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by Libertas Est Salus »

Telavian wrote: August 25th, 2023, 7:21 am I signed up for the conference, however will very likely watch it afterwards.

I like Gileadi and his work. The thing I can't really get is he is adamant that Joseph is not coming back and participating in any form with the end time work. He doesn't even leave any wiggle room. There is so much evidence though.
I'm with you. I love Gileadi and have great respect for him, but I truly do not understand his opposition to the idea that JS will come back. His argument seems to be "Would you really want Joseph to have to come back and go through all this stuff after all he has already gone through?" But that's quite a logical error, considering that what I might or might not want to happen has no bearing on what is actually going to happen.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Libertas Est Salus wrote: August 25th, 2023, 12:37 pm I'm with you. I love Gileadi and have great respect for him, but I truly do not understand his opposition to the idea that JS will come back. His argument seems to be "Would you really want Joseph to have to come back and go through all this stuff after all he has already gone through?" But that's quite a logical error, considering that what I might or might not want to happen has no bearing on what is actually going to happen.
I think it is another reason to believe that no one, including me, has all the answers. We all have various pieces and are trying to work things out.
Last edited by Telavian on August 25th, 2023, 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Libertas Est Salus wrote: August 25th, 2023, 12:37 pm
His argument seems to be "Would you really want Joseph to have to come back and go through all this stuff after all he has already gone through?"
Another part of his argument is that the servant is "marred" but then healed, and then continues his work. So it couldn't be Joseph Smith.

["Marred" being, severe disfiguring physical injury but not death. I don't know what the Hebrew word is. Or whether its meaning could stretch to also cover (Joseph's case) being dead for 200 years then returning for further work. Or whether it could just mean character assassination, in which case "marring" would not exclude Joseph as a possibility.]

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by Libertas Est Salus »

GüdFüdDude wrote: August 25th, 2023, 1:51 pm
Libertas Est Salus wrote: August 25th, 2023, 12:37 pm
His argument seems to be "Would you really want Joseph to have to come back and go through all this stuff after all he has already gone through?"
Another part of his argument is that the servant is "marred" but then healed, and then continues his work. So it couldn't be Joseph Smith.

["Marred" being, severe disfiguring physical injury but not death. I don't know what the Hebrew word is. Or whether its meaning could stretch to also cover (Joseph's case) being dead for 200 years then returning for further work. Or whether it could just mean character assassination, in which case "marring" would not exclude Joseph as a possibility.]
You are correct. I find that interesting too, because particularly when we're dealing with scriptural symbolism, I think a reasonable person has to agree that it's not hard to think of ways it could still be Joseph but fit within the prophesied constraints. I know this one seems a stretch, but I've supposed that the Lord could raise Joseph from the dead all these years later, and thereby "heal" him. I mean, why not? Sure, Lazarus was only dead a few days, but if that was possible, then why not 180+ years later?

But even if it's bringing Joseph back as a resurrected being, wouldn't that qualify as being healed? Or are there other obstacles to that option as fulfillment?

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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GüdFüdDude wrote: August 25th, 2023, 1:51 pm Another part of his argument is that the servant is "marred" but then healed, and then continues his work. So it couldn't be Joseph Smith.
Very much Joseph was physically marred, spiritually marred, and marred according to his efforts.

From the 1828 Websters dictionary:
M`AR, verb transitive [L. marceo.]
1. To injure by cutting off a part, or by wounding and making defective; as, to mar a tree by incision.
I pray you, mar no more trees by writing songs in their barks.
Neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. Lev.19.

2. To injure; to hurt; to impair the strength or purity of.
When brewers mar their malt with water.

3. To injure; to diminish; to interrupt.
But mirth is marred, and the good cheer is lost.

4. To injure; to deform; to disfigure.
Ire, envy and despair
Marr'd all his borrow'd visage.
His visage was so marred more than any man. Is.52.
Moral evil alone mars the intellectual works of God.

[This word is not obsolete in America.]

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Telavian wrote: August 25th, 2023, 7:21 am I signed up for the conference, however will very likely watch it afterwards.

I like Gileadi and his work. The thing I can't really get is he is adamant that Joseph is not coming back and participating in any form with the end time work. He doesn't even leave any wiggle room. There is so much evidence though.
I like Gileadi and his work also; and study it, and believe he is THE authority on Isaiah.
And the reason you can't get it - is because it's true -
Joseph is not coming back.
There is so much evidence though.
there's really not - only imagination,
and the wanting to believe that Joseph was more than what he was - a man; a dead man they worship.
There is so much evidence though.
actually, 99% of all the evidence, comes from JS's own hand, or from those that served him
and were around him at that time.
so how can it be used ? It can't.
How can you use anything from the D&C when it came from Joseph Smith's own hand.
Sure you can say it was all from revelation, but was it ?
Can we even trust the D&C ?
viewtopic.php?p=1381008&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... t#p1381008

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by Shawn Henry »

marc wrote: August 25th, 2023, 12:03 pm There is a difference between gathering Israel "the first" time and a "second time" with power to redeem Zion. Zion remains under condemnation. Joseph laid the foundation but is not the end-time servant.
That's my point, there's a failed attempt and a successful attempt, all by the same person. It's one servant described who laments the failure but who is glorious the second time.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by Shawn Henry »

GüdFüdDude wrote: August 25th, 2023, 1:51 pm Another part of his argument is that the servant is "marred" but then healed, and then continues his work. So it couldn't be Joseph Smith.
That's doesn't rule him out, he could be marred this second time around.

Also, we don't know which one of the end time servants is marred or if both. The scriptures are filled with references to there being two anointed ones.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Being There wrote: August 25th, 2023, 4:47 pm Can we even trust the D&C ?
We might not be able to, but we can trust the Joseph the Seer prophecy in 2 Nephi 3.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

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Being There wrote: August 25th, 2023, 4:47 pm actually, 99% of all the evidence, comes from JS's own hand, or from those that served him
and were around him at that time.
so how can it be used ? It can't.
While I agree that we should be skeptical of things. This is however a very strange thing to say.
99% of all the evidence of Christ comes from him directly or "from those that served him", therefore we should discount Christ, correct?

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by GüdFüdDude »

GüdFüdDude wrote: August 25th, 2023, 1:51 pm
Another part of his argument is that the servant is "marred" but then healed, and then continues his work. So it couldn't be Joseph Smith.
One more element that I think Gileadi would say. Did say. In his 2 visions of glory lectures.

You can't mar a translated being, only a mortal being. So that excludes Joseph, since he's already resurrected.

It has to be a mortal.

The mortal endtime servant is marred, healed in a visionary ascension, then continues his work as a translated being/seraph. Like Isaiah. And the 3 Nephites.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi: Israel’s Coming Restoration: The Mission of a Latter-Day David (August 26, 2023)

Post by Being There »

Telavian wrote: August 25th, 2023, 2:14 pm
GüdFüdDude wrote: August 25th, 2023, 1:51 pm Another part of his argument is that the servant is "marred" but then healed, and then continues his work. So it couldn't be Joseph Smith.
Very much Joseph was physically marred, spiritually marred, and marred according to his efforts.

From the 1828 Websters dictionary:
M`AR, verb transitive [L. marceo.]
1. To injure by cutting off a part, or by wounding and making defective; as, to mar a tree by incision.
I pray you, mar no more trees by writing songs in their barks.
Neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. Lev.19.

2. To injure; to hurt; to impair the strength or purity of.
When brewers mar their malt with water.

3. To injure; to diminish; to interrupt.
But mirth is marred, and the good cheer is lost.

4. To injure; to deform; to disfigure.
Ire, envy and despair
Marr'd all his borrow'd visage.
His visage was so marred more than any man. Is.52.
Moral evil alone mars the intellectual works of God.

[This word is not obsolete in America.]
taken from a comment I made to someone.


"I thought the same thing years ago.
but, who said he has to be injured ? like hurt physically.

I don't think that "marred" means marred physically - as one might think. (like your body being hurt)
Look at this verse below. *** "therefore they shall not hurt him,
although he shall be marred because of them"
Even though the next line says " I will heal him "
Most people read this to mean that he was hurt physically, but
the line before says "therefore they shall not hurt him"
So I believe that there are other ways that a person can marred and be healed
other than when their body gets hurt.

I believe the marred servant is marred because there will be
many people that don't believe him, they hurt his character.
He may be discredited falsely. defaced.
I looked up the definition of deface and here is what I found - Deface - spoil the surface or appearance of (something), e.g.,
by drawing or writing on it; mar or disfigure.

He will be sent to his own people and
he will come with Christ's words .( the sealed portion )
and just as Christ's own people rejected him, so it is with this servant.
So his own people (the church and members don't believe him, so he is marred by them.

"When the Mormons mar the Davidic Servant is when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
They will have filled the measure of their iniquity"

***
3 Nephi 21:10

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him,
although he shall be marred because of them.
Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

so obviously - this servant - who is in the Lord's hand - and who the Lord will not let them hurt him,
can not be JS.
JS was killed.

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