You must be a worthy temple recommend holder to attend a church school.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Recent updates to the honor code at BYU-Idaho now make it possible for students to wear.... you guessed it, shorts. Yay!!!! haha, okay, now on to the more interesting part. While reading through this article it states that in order to attend any church school you must agree to all of these questions. They are almost verbatim from the temple recommend interview. I found this to be interesting.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/08/s ... standards/

Men and women who attend BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, BYU in Provo, Utah, and Ensign College in Salt Lake City have been required to receive an ecclesiastical endorsement from their bishop. Now, each student will be asked the following 12 questions:

• Are you striving to deepen your testimony of God, the Eternal Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost?

• Are you striving to deepen your testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

• Are you striving for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior?

• Do you obey the law of chastity?

• Do you sustain the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?

• Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

• Do you regularly participate in your church meetings and strive to keep the Sabbath day holy?

• Do you strive to be honest in all that you do, including keeping the commitments you have made?

• The Church Educational System is supported and funded by the tithes of the Church of Jesus Christ. Are you a full-tithe payer?

• Do you obey the Word of Wisdom?

• Are you striving to live the teachings of the church and keep the covenants you have made to this point in your life?

• Are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved with priesthood authorities as part of your repentance?

Now why does this matter? Well, it's interesting to see how the repetition of dogmatic thinking seems to begin younger and younger.

[Thinker]

Yes, indoctrination to ensure tithe-payer$$$$$$$ & to maintain control over members’ minds.

Once you learn how the lds church is a cult, it becomes clearer & clearer…

[Atrasado]

I never thought I would see the day this would happen as long as Elder Bednar was still alive. I often predicted that. I was wrong.

It's nice that students can wear modest shorts (good luck policing that). Much more importantly than shorts, I don't have to wear a tie to work anymore!

In all seriousness, though, the beards thing needs to go. Like, now.

[Subcomandante]

I never thought I would see the day this would happen as long as Elder Bednar was still alive. I often predicted that. I was wrong.

It's nice that students can wear modest shorts (good luck policing that). Much more importantly than shorts, I don't have to wear a tie to work anymore!

In all seriousness, though, the beards thing needs to go. Like, now.

To be fair, they did say that they would use the temple garment as an indicator of what would be termed acceptable and what would not be termed acceptible.

Another thing that seems to be glossed over. The Law of Chastity per the honor code specifically states that no sexual relations should be had between anyone unless they were a married man and woman, and that same-sex romantic behavior will be considered as being out of line concerning this.

[blitzinstripes]

"I'm a man, but I'm gay. I also dress like a woman, and I have a boyfriend. We kiss and make out passionately, slow dance, hold hands, and fantasize about being husband and husband someday."

"That's not what I asked you. I asked if you live the law of chastity."

"Oh, yeah. We haven't had intercourse yet."

"That's great, Steve. Here's your temple recommend. Hang on another year or two and you and Mike will be able to get sealed in the temple. We've almost got the saints convinced to go along with it, now."

[Subcomandante]

"I'm a man, but I'm gay. I also dress like a woman, and I have a boyfriend. We kiss and make out passionately, slow dance, hold hands, and fantasize about being husband and husband someday."

"That's not what I asked you. I asked if you live the law of chastity."

"Oh, yeah. We haven't had intercourse yet."

"That's great, Steve. Here's your temple recommend. Hang on another year or two and you and Mike will be able to get sealed in the temple. We've almost got the saints convinced to go along with it, now."

Under the updated stipulations of the honor code, this would be grounds for immediate rejection from any of the CES institutions.

[blitzinstripes]

"I'm a man, but I'm gay. I also dress like a woman, and I have a boyfriend. We kiss and make out passionately, slow dance, hold hands, and fantasize about being husband and husband someday."

"That's not what I asked you. I asked if you live the law of chastity."

"Oh, yeah. We haven't had intercourse yet."

"That's great, Steve. Here's your temple recommend. Hang on another year or two and you and Mike will be able to get sealed in the temple. We've almost got the saints convinced to go along with it, now."

Under the updated stipulations of the honor code, this would be grounds for immediate rejection from any of the CES institutions.

We shall see. There are plenty of young LGBTQXYZ college students willing to test the waters. Will the church enforce this and risk the public backlash from their Babylonian masters? Or will they play a subtle game of "don't ask, don't tell"?

[Atrasado]

"I'm a man, but I'm gay. I also dress like a woman, and I have a boyfriend. We kiss and make out passionately, slow dance, hold hands, and fantasize about being husband and husband someday."

"That's not what I asked you. I asked if you live the law of chastity."

"Oh, yeah. We haven't had intercourse yet."

"That's great, Steve. Here's your temple recommend. Hang on another year or two and you and Mike will be able to get sealed in the temple. We've almost got the saints convinced to go along with it, now."

Under the updated stipulations of the honor code, this would be grounds for immediate rejection from any of the CES institutions.

True, but maybe that's because of the heavy duty pushback leaders got when they floated out their trial run of relaxed anti-homosexuality rules at BYU a few years ago. The Salt Lake Tribune reported,

In the update last month, that section [about homosexual relations] was deleted. Students have said that staff in the Honor Code Office told them it meant they would no longer be disciplined for dating, holding hands with or kissing people of the same sex — as long as they upheld the faith’s existing expectation that couples remain chaste before marriage and its ban on same-sex marriage.

BYU officials immediately countered that there “may have been some miscommunication” but declined to elaborate.

In other words, the students were telling the truth about what the Honor Code Office told them. I'm sorry, but I don't think that just happens. I'm guessing the Honor Code Office workers were telling students what they had been told. Kevin Utt, the Honor Code Office director, was the firewall so that Church and BYU leaders could do a trial run and see what effect such a change would have among Church members without having things hit the First Presidency. The push back surprised the leaders, so they hung the Honor Code Office workers out to dry, it seems to me.

[Good & Global]

I don't think I have seen many people lie about university and/or the honor code office communications.

Now exams, homework, reasons to not date and getting out of an assigment or calling - that is fair game for BYU students to practice lying. I am sure Atrasado can vouch for this. But for the most part I believe them. It is like if your kid said the teacher wanted to touch them - they usually don't have a compelling reason to lie about that.

On another note, I thought temple recommend questions were built into all the honor code stuff since the 80s.

[Telavian]

Non-members can attend BYU so are there different questions they are asked?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Non-members can attend BYU so are there different questions they are asked?

I don’t think they have to receive an endorsement. The only thing they are required to follow is the Honor Code, which now allows shorts and sandals.

[John Tavner]

Non-members can attend BYU so are there different questions they are asked?

I don’t think they have to receive an endorsement. The only thing they are required to follow is the Honor Code, which now allows shorts and sandals.

I could be wrong, but I think they have to receive an endorsement from their religious organization - at least they used to.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Non-members can attend BYU so are there different questions they are asked?

I don’t think they have to receive an endorsement. The only thing they are required to follow is the Honor Code, which now allows shorts and sandals.

I could be wrong, but I think they have to receive an endorsement from their religious organization - at least they used to.

Possibly. I wonder if you have to be religious to attend. What if a person has no official religion or adhere to a specific org….

[John Tavner]

I don’t think they have to receive an endorsement. The only thing they are required to follow is the Honor Code, which now allows shorts and sandals.

I could be wrong, but I think they have to receive an endorsement from their religious organization - at least they used to.

Possibly. I wonder if you have to be religious to attend. What if a person has no official religion or adhere to a specific org….

If I recall correctly they can find a local pastor - I think one or two people just signed up to be a pastor online or they can lie.

Per the website:



If you are not a member of the Church, you have the option of completing your first level endorsement with your own religious leader or with a local bishop or mission president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (to find a local Latter-day Saint leader, enter your address into the meetinghouse locator tool). For your second level endorsement, you will be contacted by the university chaplain via the email provided in your application.

You can start this process by going to endorse.byu.edu and selecting "STUDENT." You will then select the "APPLICANT" option and follow the instructions given.

[Wolfwoman]

I’m assuming those questions aren’t required of the non-members who want to attend the school.

[JuneBug12000]

"I'm a man, but I'm gay. I also dress like a woman, and I have a boyfriend. We kiss and make out passionately, slow dance, hold hands, and fantasize about being husband and husband someday."

"That's not what I asked you. I asked if you live the law of chastity."

"Oh, yeah. We haven't had intercourse yet."

"That's great, Steve. Here's your temple recommend. Hang on another year or two and you and Mike will be able to get sealed in the temple. We've almost got the saints convinced to go along with it, now."

Under the updated stipulations of the honor code, this would be grounds for immediate rejection from any of the CES institutions.

True, but maybe that's because of the heavy duty pushback leaders got when they floated out their trial run of relaxed anti-homosexuality rules at BYU a few years ago. The Salt Lake Tribune reported,

In the update last month, that section [about homosexual relations] was deleted. Students have said that staff in the Honor Code Office told them it meant they would no longer be disciplined for dating, holding hands with or kissing people of the same sex — as long as they upheld the faith’s existing expectation that couples remain chaste before marriage and its ban on same-sex marriage.

BYU officials immediately countered that there “may have been some miscommunication” but declined to elaborate.

In other words, the students were telling the truth about what the Honor Code Office told them. I'm sorry, but I don't think that just happens. I'm guessing the Honor Code Office workers were telling students what they had been told. Kevin Utt, the Honor Code Office director, was the firewall so that Church and BYU leaders could do a trial run and see what effect such a change would have among Church members without having things hit the First Presidency. The push back surprised the leaders, so they hung the Honor Code Office workers out to dry, it seems to me.

That Honor Code debacle rested directly on one man alone: Ben Schilaty. Now, as for how he happened to have the opportunity, the church and BYU wanted to be inclusive so the let the fox guard the henhouse.

I was at one of Ben Schilaty's first "leadership firesides" to convince RS and EQ presidencies, stake presidencies, primary leaders, etc that what the church said about homosexuality was not what the church said. It was literally the same day of the Honor Code fiasco and it had not yet been squashed. He was on such a high after telling LGBTQ kids all day long they could kiss and hold hands and such.

Then after the church came back and corrected the situation the LGBTQ tried to pretend it wasn't their fault, but the church trying to bait them into revealing themselves for punishment.

The church has since moved more in the permissive camp, but that particular day all the credit goes to Ben.

He has done so much damage and is a wicked man in my estimation.

I could go on, but that is enough. Ben is an antichrist.

[Atrasado]

Under the updated stipulations of the honor code, this would be grounds for immediate rejection from any of the CES institutions.

True, but maybe that's because of the heavy duty pushback leaders got when they floated out their trial run of relaxed anti-homosexuality rules at BYU a few years ago. The Salt Lake Tribune reported,

In the update last month, that section [about homosexual relations] was deleted. Students have said that staff in the Honor Code Office told them it meant they would no longer be disciplined for dating, holding hands with or kissing people of the same sex — as long as they upheld the faith’s existing expectation that couples remain chaste before marriage and its ban on same-sex marriage.

BYU officials immediately countered that there “may have been some miscommunication” but declined to elaborate.

In other words, the students were telling the truth about what the Honor Code Office told them. I'm sorry, but I don't think that just happens. I'm guessing the Honor Code Office workers were telling students what they had been told. Kevin Utt, the Honor Code Office director, was the firewall so that Church and BYU leaders could do a trial run and see what effect such a change would have among Church members without having things hit the First Presidency. The push back surprised the leaders, so they hung the Honor Code Office workers out to dry, it seems to me.

That Honor Code debacle rested directly on one man alone: Ben Schilaty. Now, as for how he happened to have the opportunity, the church and BYU wanted to be inclusive so the let the fox guard the henhouse.

I was at one of Ben Schilaty's first "leadership firesides" to convince RS and EQ presidencies, stake presidencies, primary leaders, etc that what the church said about homosexuality was not what the church said. It was literally the same day of the Honor Code fiasco and it had not yet been squashed. He was on such a high after telling LGBTQ kids all day long they could kiss and hold hands and such.

Then after the church came back and corrected the situation the LGBTQ tried to pretend it wasn't their fault, but the church trying to bait them into revealing themselves for punishment.

The church has since moved more in the permissive camp, but that particular day all the credit goes to Ben.

He has done so much damage and is a wicked man in my estimation.

I could go on, but that is enough. Ben is an antichrist.

I know who you're talking about. However, they knew who they were hiring when they hired Ben. (And how the heck does one go from teaching Spanish at a high school to working in the Honor Code Office?) And they wound him up and set him loose. Trust me, you don't get to do firesides like he was doing in a church house with local stake presidents without the whole thing being vetted and approved (at least tacitly). Ben, from what I can tell, is delusional if he thinks he's serving God. But I'm guessing the leadership around him doesn't make him less delusional. And they certainly didn't fire him over those firesides and other efforts. (He's administrative and not tenured faculty, so they can fire him for sneezing wrong.)

[TheDuke]

Non-members can attend BYU so are there different questions they are asked?

I don’t think they have to receive an endorsement. The only thing they are required to follow is the Honor Code, which now allows shorts and sandals.

Not true. I had to get a bishop's endorsement to go to BYU back in 1974! It was, as best as I can recall, the same as the temple questions, but they were a bit different back then. That was Provo. My 3 children same in past 20 years and my two sons, same for BYU-I.

I see no change here. Back when my first wife's sister went to BYU Provo, they made her routinely kneel in the grass to check the length of her skirt, that was late 60's I think.

Even pre-mission/pre-endowment, my bishop on campus asked us the same questions, I think each semester as I recall.

[farmerchick]

Recent updates to the honor code at BYU-Idaho now make it possible for students to wear.... you guessed it, shorts. Yay!!!! haha, okay, now on to the more interesting part. While reading through this article it states that in order to attend any church school you must agree to all of these questions. They are almost verbatim from the temple recommend interview. I found this to be interesting.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/08/s ... standards/

Men and women who attend BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, BYU in Provo, Utah, and Ensign College in Salt Lake City have been required to receive an ecclesiastical endorsement from their bishop. Now, each student will be asked the following 12 questions:

• Are you striving to deepen your testimony of God, the Eternal Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost?

• Are you striving to deepen your testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

• Are you striving for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior?

• Do you obey the law of chastity?

• Do you sustain the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?

• Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

• Do you regularly participate in your church meetings and strive to keep the Sabbath day holy?

• Do you strive to be honest in all that you do, including keeping the commitments you have made?

• The Church Educational System is supported and funded by the tithes of the Church of Jesus Christ. Are you a full-tithe payer?

• Do you obey the Word of Wisdom?

• Are you striving to live the teachings of the church and keep the covenants you have made to this point in your life?

• Are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved with priesthood authorities as part of your repentance?

Now why does this matter? Well, it's interesting to see how the repetition of dogmatic thinking seems to begin younger and younger.

What would you like to see happen instead?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Non-members can attend BYU so are there different questions they are asked?

I don’t think they have to receive an endorsement. The only thing they are required to follow is the Honor Code, which now allows shorts and sandals.

Not true. I had to get a bishop's endorsement to go to BYU back in 1974! It was, as best as I can recall, the same as the temple questions, but they were a bit different back then. That was Provo. My 3 children same in past 20 years and my two sons, same for BYU-I.

I see no change here. Back when my first wife's sister went to BYU Provo, they made her routinely kneel in the grass to check the length of her skirt, that was late 60's I think.

Even pre-mission/pre-endowment, my bishop on campus asked us the same questions, I think each semester as I recall.

So the false traditions go back much further....

[Reluctant Watchman]

Recent updates to the honor code at BYU-Idaho now make it possible for students to wear.... you guessed it, shorts. Yay!!!! haha, okay, now on to the more interesting part. While reading through this article it states that in order to attend any church school you must agree to all of these questions. They are almost verbatim from the temple recommend interview. I found this to be interesting.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/08/s ... standards/

Men and women who attend BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, BYU in Provo, Utah, and Ensign College in Salt Lake City have been required to receive an ecclesiastical endorsement from their bishop. Now, each student will be asked the following 12 questions:

• Are you striving to deepen your testimony of God, the Eternal Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost?

• Are you striving to deepen your testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

• Are you striving for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior?

• Do you obey the law of chastity?

• Do you sustain the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?

• Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

• Do you regularly participate in your church meetings and strive to keep the Sabbath day holy?

• Do you strive to be honest in all that you do, including keeping the commitments you have made?

• The Church Educational System is supported and funded by the tithes of the Church of Jesus Christ. Are you a full-tithe payer?

• Do you obey the Word of Wisdom?

• Are you striving to live the teachings of the church and keep the covenants you have made to this point in your life?

• Are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved with priesthood authorities as part of your repentance?

Now why does this matter? Well, it's interesting to see how the repetition of dogmatic thinking seems to begin younger and younger.

What would you like to see happen instead?

Do you agree with the temple questions being a requirement to obtain an education through an LDS school?

Do you agree w the questions in general?

[TheDuke]

Recent updates to the honor code at BYU-Idaho now make it possible for students to wear.... you guessed it, shorts. Yay!!!! haha, okay, now on to the more interesting part. While reading through this article it states that in order to attend any church school you must agree to all of these questions. They are almost verbatim from the temple recommend interview. I found this to be interesting.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/08/s ... standards/



Now why does this matter? Well, it's interesting to see how the repetition of dogmatic thinking seems to begin younger and younger.

What would you like to see happen instead?

Do you agree with the temple questions being a requirement to obtain an education through an LDS school?

Do you agree w the questions in general?

yes, given it is tithing paid

[Niemand]

Yes, indoctrination to ensure tithe-payer$$$$$$$ & to maintain control over members’ minds.

Once you learn how the lds church is a cult, it becomes clearer & clearer…

I can't really see Nelson as very charismatic. He is the product of an institution not the force of his personality. He cannot be questioned but he lacks charisma.

To be fair, No 2 isn't completely true of the LDS. Exaltation is exclusive not salvation.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yes, indoctrination to ensure tithe-payer$$$$$$$ & to maintain control over members’ minds.

Once you learn how the lds church is a cult, it becomes clearer & clearer…

I can't really see Nelson as very charismatic. He is the product of an institution not the force of his personality. He cannot be questioned but he lacks charisma.

To be fair, No 2 isn't completely true of the LDS. Exaltation is exclusive not salvation.

I think #2 is actually very pertinent to the LDS faith. A recent BYU speaker said that if you don’t join the church you can’t fully come unto Christ.

[John Tavner]

Yes, indoctrination to ensure tithe-payer$$$$$$$ & to maintain control over members’ minds.

Once you learn how the lds church is a cult, it becomes clearer & clearer…

I can't really see Nelson as very charismatic. He is the product of an institution not the force of his personality. He cannot be questioned but he lacks charisma.

To be fair, No 2 isn't completely true of the LDS. Exaltation is exclusive not salvation.

I think #2 is actually very pertinent to the LDS faith. A recent BYU speaker said that if you don’t join the church you can’t fully come unto Christ.

Yeah, in my younger years and I was also taught this - that coming unot Christ was joining the LDS church... Defnitely wrong teaching, but it is prominent. If you didn't join the church you weren't "elect" or "wheat ready to harvest"