Second Annointing seems stupid

[Thinker]

Brigham is Donald Trump.

Again nutso and off topic.

Not necessarily. Both may have got the freemasonry 2nd anointing…

ANOINTING
ENCYCLOPEDIA MASONICA https://www.universalfreemasonry.org/en ... /anointing

[Thinker]

Another fake ordinance that gets people nowhere…Except believing they are superior and cannot sin.

Yes, worse than nowhere - going the wrong direction.

[Thinker]

…To be clear, I realize it's totally possible it got perverted by Brigham Young along with everything else. But does it not seem pretty clear that Jesus was administering the washing of the feet at the Last Supper as a sacred ordinance, a Second Annointing that was essential to "have part with [Him]"?…

Some symbolism is meaningful due to its relevance. Back then, most people walked more & in sandals & in dirt. Washing their feet was something very appreciated. Now days, most people rarely walk, wear socks & shoes & rarely touch dirt. So the relevance of the symbolism is lost on time period circumstances.

Now days, a loving sacrifice that is more relevant may be to stop everything & take hours of time to genuinely listen to someone… I just realized there is - or was - a hotline for people to call who just want to be heard. But washing feet is quicker & easier.

[Ymarsakar]

Brigham is Donald Trump.

Never considered before but possible MMP/reincarnated.

He saw joseph get killed running for president. So he is recouping that for joseph. 4 indictments. Jailed in georgia. He is safe under my dominion but if u hear he was shot, that is fake news.

Us feds also took away his governorship of utah.

[Thinker]

Brigham is Donald Trump.

Never considered before but possible MMP/reincarnated.

He saw joseph get killed running for president. So he is recouping that for joseph. 4 indictments. Jailed in georgia. He is safe under my dominion but if u hear he was shot, that is fake news.

Us feds also took away his governorship of utah.

Always a silver lining!!

[Ymarsakar]

Never considered before but possible MMP/reincarnated.

He saw joseph get killed running for president. So he is recouping that for joseph. 4 indictments. Jailed in georgia. He is safe under my dominion but if u hear he was shot, that is fake news.

Us feds also took away his governorship of utah.

Always a silver lining!!

The soul does not change quickly over time. CHeck how Donald treats his divorced wives. That's how Brigham Young was, and that is why Elizabeth Kane, feminist under 1st wave feminism, was converted to a favorable impression of Mormonism/polygamy. You should read her diary. Elizabeth Kane's Georgetown diary journal.

[Dusty Wanderer]

I suppose it's possible it's just the lingering effects of the Brighamite spell upon me, but this makes me a little uncomfortable. And I realize that's fine. I can choose to engage in the discussion or not. But isn't this an ordinance we have plenty of reason to suppose is both legit and very sacred? To be clear, I realize it's totally possible it got perverted by Brigham Young along with everything else. But does it not seem pretty clear that Jesus was administering the washing of the feet at the Last Supper as a sacred ordinance, a Second Annointing that was essential to "have part with [Him]"?

Is the OP purpose to criticize the idea of a Second Annointing entirely, or just as perceived and administered by the LDS church?

I don't think there was anything special about the washing of feet, as it fit into the time and place they were in anciently. It was a familiar part of the culture. What made it special is what the Lord taught through it.

"But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant." (Mat. 23:11)

I think another effect of our conditioning is to get hung up on the outward performance itself as special, rather than the underlying principle. We must embrace the underlying principle, if we are to "have part with [Him]".

Perhaps the SA ordinance, as instituted in church, uses the performance merely as a vehicle to teach the underlying principle -- perhaps the wife does this because she is the greatest? Or perhaps we do it because the Cochranites did it.

[Thinker]

The soul does not change quickly over time. CHeck how Donald treats his divorced wives. That's how Brigham Young was, and that is why Elizabeth Kane, feminist under 1st wave feminism, was converted to a favorable impression of Mormonism/polygamy. You should read her diary. Elizabeth Kane's Georgetown diary journal.

What do you mean?
Both treated them badly?

Brigham divorced 10 women - pretty sure he beat Trump there - though probably Trump won with UNmarital sex by a landslide. And in BY’s will, he left out 6 wives - nada for them.

[Ymarsakar]

The soul does not change quickly over time. CHeck how Donald treats his divorced wives. That's how Brigham Young was, and that is why Elizabeth Kane, feminist under 1st wave feminism, was converted to a favorable impression of Mormonism/polygamy. You should read her diary. Elizabeth Kane's Georgetown diary journal.

What do you mean?
Both treated them badly?

Brigham divorced 10 women - pretty sure he beat Trump there - though probably Trump won with UNmarital sex by a landslide. And in BY’s will, he left out 6 wives - nada for them.

No, look into the primary sources on donald and brigham.

[Thinker]

No, look into the primary sources on donald and brigham.

[harakim]

I'm pretty sure the calling and election is made sure before people come here

[Thinker]

I'm pretty sure the calling and election is made sure before people come here

Maybe. If so, it makes you wonder about determinism vs free will. Maybe God knows how things will turn out - and maybe God keeps that kind of thing covered with a veil, so we can exercise free agency.


Either way, free agency seems too important to entertain the notion of enlightenment guarantee granted by another. It’s like giving someone a trophy before they earn it.

[harakim]

I'm pretty sure the calling and election is made sure before people come here

Maybe. If so, it makes you wonder about determinism vs free will. Maybe God knows how things will turn out - and maybe God keeps that kind of thing covered with a veil, so we can exercise free agency.


Either way, free agency seems too important to entertain the notion of enlightenment guarantee granted by another. It’s like giving someone a trophy before they earn it.

The idea being they earned it before they came here and then they came here.

[Thinker]

The idea being they earned it before they came here and then they came here.

Like maybe for people with mental disabilities?
I’ve heard they were so good, they didn’t need to be tested so they came to help, love & maybe test others.

[harakim]

The idea being they earned it before they came here and then they came here.

Like maybe for people with mental disabilities?
I’ve heard they were so good, they didn’t need to be tested so they came to help, love & maybe test others.

I've heard that, so it's possible. I just think that if I were trying to build up a part of my Kingdom, I would send knowledgeable people to help do that and not just leave the natives on their own and expect them to build the kingdom. We would need people with experience. And also Jesus says

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


There are many more verses. Also...
Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

It's not possible to deceive the elect. They were elected or chosen.

[Ymarsakar]

No, look into the primary sources on donald and brigham.

Most people's sources being used here are secondary or tertiary, not primary. Of course it would muddy your waters.

[Thinker]

The idea being they earned it before they came here and then they came here.

Like maybe for people with mental disabilities?
I’ve heard they were so good, they didn’t need to be tested so they came to help, love & maybe test others.

I've heard that, so it's possible. I just think that if I were trying to build up a part of my Kingdom, I would send knowledgeable people to help do that and not just leave the natives on their own and expect them to build the kingdom. We would need people with experience. And also Jesus says

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


There are many more verses. Also...
Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

It's not possible to deceive the elect. They were elected or chosen.

But maybe what makes the elect, elect is not knowing they are so cool.

[harakim]

Like maybe for people with mental disabilities?
I’ve heard they were so good, they didn’t need to be tested so they came to help, love & maybe test others.

I've heard that, so it's possible. I just think that if I were trying to build up a part of my Kingdom, I would send knowledgeable people to help do that and not just leave the natives on their own and expect them to build the kingdom. We would need people with experience. And also Jesus says

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


There are many more verses. Also...
Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

It's not possible to deceive the elect. They were elected or chosen.

But maybe what makes the elect, elect is not knowing they are so cool.

I think the elect would be very humble and likely not know they are elect.

[FrankOne]

I'm pretty sure the calling and election is made sure before people come here

I tend to believe the same.

Our roles here are written by our choice and according to where we are in our progression. We come into this temporal existence to then experience the choices we've made.

[BigFootCain]

Abigail offered to wash David's feet because she recognized God's anointing was with him. And she did this when she realized she would become his wife. That is what it means to me... it means you recognize that your husband treats you the way Jesus would treat you. It means you recognize the anointing of Christ on your husband. Making it a ceremony in a building is a symbol of the idea. It should be done by the wife willingly, there should be no ordinance where the wife is called in to do it, because then she may do it because she feels forced to; and that's not how it works. Remember our temple covenants are not the actual covenant. The actual covenant is sealed by the Holy Spirit. And also, Abigail offered to wash his feet, and the feet of his servants; but she didn't actually do it, she just offered to do it. She was willing to do it. That willingness is the sign you are looking for, it's not the ordinance itself. And most husbands wouldn't require it of their wife anyway, maybe in reverse, if they have the anointing of Christ on them. It's a sign the husband is free from the blood and sins of this generation, and the way a man does this is by washing his wife with the word of God, by teaching the gospel to his wife so she can be purified through Him and through her posterity through him.

Consider the lamb washes the feet of the shepherd. Jesus washes the feet of the disciples. Those who receive the gospel respond by acknowledging their shepherd is free from the sins of the world because He has taught it with love and care, as a Shepherd, in righteousness. In protecting the sheep.

I thought the husband washes the wife's feet too, but could be mistaken.

I don't believe the husband washes her feet. There have been some pretty good descriptions of what takes place. The member of the Q15 anoints and ordains the husband and wife as kings and queens, etc., and the Q15 member washes the feet of the husband (not sure if he washes the feet of the wife as well). Then the second portion of the ritual is where the wife wife washes her husband's feet and gives him a blessing.

[BigFootCain]

For the longest time when I was a TBM I was fascinated with the 2nd anointing and pretty much all things related to the temple. I loved to study everything I could get my hands on about it. So this discussion thread has been pretty interesting.

Putting aside the issues of mortal men performing a sort of "pre-judgement day" judgement for "deserving couples" and bestowing the ritual on them, I've also wondered what to make of the glaring issue concerning people who have received these "higher blessings" and then were excommunicated. Those two camps seem mutually exclusive to me.

Now, I admit this is an assumption on my part, but I would be willing to bet that currently all GA's receive this ordinance. If Tom Phillips was given this ordinance (and was then asked to prayerfully consider other couples to nominate as possible recipients), then it makes sense to me that members of the 70 would have received the ordinance as well. I would be willing to bet money that James Hamula and his wife participated in the ritual.

Now that Hamula is excommunicated (and not for reasons of apostasy as we were told), what do we make of this catch-22? Those that receive the anointing are promised exaltation as long as they don't blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, or commit murder by shedding innocent blood. Even if they commit adultery, etc., they will pay the price for those sins, but when justice has been met they will still be exalted. So how can he have received the 2nd anointing and then been excommunicated. If one was to believe these rituals were real and binding, which would be in effect? The excommunication or the anointing?

Again, I realize I am making an assumption that Hamula participated in the ordinance. But I think it's a fair assumption to make. And even if he had not I am sure that someone in the history of the Church that had received the second anointing has been subsequently excommunicated.

Is there something I'm missing or isn't this a catch-22? How would the Church explain this discrepancy if they were forced to? I know they never would address this question but isn't it a glaring contradiction?

[Thinker]

… someone in the history of the Church that had received the second anointing has been subsequently excommunicated.

Is there something I'm missing or isn't this a catch-22? How would the Church explain this discrepancy if they were forced to? I know they never would address this question but isn't it a glaring contradiction?

Lots of new rules - maybe to adapt to the new world order?



Personally, I’ve never read the rules all the way through. I see them more like suggestions on how to PLAY a GAME.

Seriously, they probably mentally & spiritually imagine such a person as spiritually killed, cut off, excommunicated, as a son of perdition… kind of how some religious leaders saw Jesus.