Second Annointing seems stupid

[Erastothenes]

So your wife washes your feet or some nonsense (i really dont know all about it) and your guaranteed salvation? My FIL was an uppity-up in the churchs financial department. Im not sure what he did exactly but he always golfed and hung out with the church big-wigs. Always bragged about having dinner with "Elder Whatshisnuts and his wife." He was pretty open about how he and his with had their second annointing. Sure the guy was nice but he was also kind of a pompous fellow. Which makes me believe that this whole second annointing is some made up horseplay and actually has no affect on anyones salvation. I mean really, is this what God has set aside for someone to guarantee their eternal salvation? Seems a bit assinine to me.

[Ymarsakar]

Jeshua washed the feet of his apostles and disciples, right. Also some women washed Jeshua's feet and dried it with their hair.

[BigT]

I agree, it’s dumb. And since the MP was taken by the Lord ~1834, where’s the so-called “authority” to do such nonsense anyway? Another way for LDS to feel superior over others when we’re supposed to be equal. Dumb.

[Telavian]

The concept is kind of nice though. You are "guaranteed" the highest whatever so you don't have to worry anymore.

[BigT]

The concept is kind of nice though. You are "guaranteed" the highest whatever so you don't have to worry anymore.

Sure, the idea is great. Until you’re slammed in the face with reality when you stand before the judgement bar and learn what you did was a fairytale. Maybe Brigham will be there to pull you through the veil, which he could do if he has internet and can look up your new name.

[Telavian]

Sure, the idea is great. Until you’re slammed in the face with reality when you stand before the judgement bar and learn what you did was a fairytale. Maybe Brigham will be there to pull you through the veil, which he could do if he has internet and can look up your new name.

If you're an attractive woman then Brigham may actually try to get you.

[Ymarsakar]

The concept is kind of nice though. You are "guaranteed" the highest whatever so you don't have to worry anymore.

Sure, the idea is great. Until you’re slammed in the face with reality when you stand before the judgement bar and learn what you did was a fairytale. Maybe Brigham will be there to pull you through the veil, which he could do if he has internet and can look up your new name.

Brigham is Donald Trump.

[Good & Global]

The concept is kind of nice though. You are "guaranteed" the highest whatever so you don't have to worry anymore.

Sure, the idea is great. Until you’re slammed in the face with reality when you stand before the judgement bar and learn what you did was a fairytale. Maybe Brigham will be there to pull you through the veil, which he could do if he has internet and can look up your new name.

Brigham is Donald Trump.

Again nutso and off topic.

[CuriousThinker]

Sure, the idea is great. Until you’re slammed in the face with reality when you stand before the judgement bar and learn what you did was a fairytale. Maybe Brigham will be there to pull you through the veil, which he could do if he has internet and can look up your new name.

If you're an attractive woman then Brigham may actually try to get you.

Lol! I was joking with my husband last night saying imagine if you were one of those guys with an attractive wife and Brigham sends you on a mission. How nervous would those poor men have been?

[Mamabear]

Another fake ordinance that gets people nowhere…Except believing they are superior and cannot sin.

[Good & Global]

I am sure like with any other loyalty card the benefits can be greatly devalued at anytime.

Some people who had spent millions donating lost an entire planet that they would have been God over.

Now the best they can hope for is VIP access to the clubhouse and 2 free water bottles.

[captainfearnot]

No dumber than the endowment. Or baptism, for that matter.

Each sacred rite grants you additional special blessings and membership in a club more exclusive than the last.

[Juliet]

Abigail offered to wash David's feet because she recognized God's anointing was with him. And she did this when she realized she would become his wife. That is what it means to me... it means you recognize that your husband treats you the way Jesus would treat you. It means you recognize the anointing of Christ on your husband. Making it a ceremony in a building is a symbol of the idea. It should be done by the wife willingly, there should be no ordinance where the wife is called in to do it, because then she may do it because she feels forced to; and that's not how it works. Remember our temple covenants are not the actual covenant. The actual covenant is sealed by the Holy Spirit. And also, Abigail offered to wash his feet, and the feet of his servants; but she didn't actually do it, she just offered to do it. She was willing to do it. That willingness is the sign you are looking for, it's not the ordinance itself. And most husbands wouldn't require it of their wife anyway, maybe in reverse, if they have the anointing of Christ on them. It's a sign the husband is free from the blood and sins of this generation, and the way a man does this is by washing his wife with the word of God, by teaching the gospel to his wife so she can be purified through Him and through her posterity through him.

Consider the lamb washes the feet of the shepherd. Jesus washes the feet of the disciples. Those who receive the gospel respond by acknowledging their shepherd is free from the sins of the world because He has taught it with love and care, as a Shepherd, in righteousness. In protecting the sheep.

[Libertas Est Salus]

I suppose it's possible it's just the lingering effects of the Brighamite spell upon me, but this makes me a little uncomfortable. And I realize that's fine. I can choose to engage in the discussion or not. But isn't this an ordinance we have plenty of reason to suppose is both legit and very sacred? To be clear, I realize it's totally possible it got perverted by Brigham Young along with everything else. But does it not seem pretty clear that Jesus was administering the washing of the feet at the Last Supper as a sacred ordinance, a Second Annointing that was essential to "have part with [Him]"?

Is the OP purpose to criticize the idea of a Second Annointing entirely, or just as perceived and administered by the LDS church?

[CuriousThinker]

Abigail offered to wash David's feet because she recognized God's anointing was with him. And she did this when she realized she would become his wife. That is what it means to me... it means you recognize that your husband treats you the way Jesus would treat you. It means you recognize the anointing of Christ on your husband. Making it a ceremony in a building is a symbol of the idea. It should be done by the wife willingly, there should be no ordinance where the wife is called in to do it, because then she may do it because she feels forced to; and that's not how it works. Remember our temple covenants are not the actual covenant. The actual covenant is sealed by the Holy Spirit. And also, Abigail offered to wash his feet, and the feet of his servants; but she didn't actually do it, she just offered to do it. She was willing to do it. That willingness is the sign you are looking for, it's not the ordinance itself. And most husbands wouldn't require it of their wife anyway, maybe in reverse, if they have the anointing of Christ on them. It's a sign the husband is free from the blood and sins of this generation, and the way a man does this is by washing his wife with the word of God, by teaching the gospel to his wife so she can be purified through Him and through her posterity through him.

Consider the lamb washes the feet of the shepherd. Jesus washes the feet of the disciples. Those who receive the gospel respond by acknowledging their shepherd is free from the sins of the world because He has taught it with love and care, as a Shepherd, in righteousness. In protecting the sheep.

I thought the husband washes the wife's feet too, but could be mistaken.

[TheDuke]

Obviously there is a Calling and Election Made Sure. So, why not a second anointing? HOWEVER, I agree the way it is handled doesn't seem to fit the bill in any way.

C&E is about god telling you that you have earned the "elect" status and that he knows you and that any sins you commit after obtaining it will be yours to bear, i.e. no more help from the atonement. So, does it make sense the Lord has an ordinance? Yes. The is a misconception on FF that only Jesus can confer you're C&E where it says in all scriptures the Holy Spirit of Promise or Second Comforter confers it. That is the Holy Ghost. In fact, the baptism of Fire and Holy Ghost is conferring upon you C&E or making you "elect". That is just the definition of it.

Now, we know that several people on the earth had the power to seal up any and everything, like Elijah. So, he had (at the time) the authority of the HSoP. He could perform an ordinance and convey a C&E and that would be same as the second anointing. It is said that Joseph had the sealing power as well. So, he could perform an ordinance, not sure the format would matter.

Now, does that mean BY on down have that level of sealing power? I don't think so, and if they did, it would take the Lord's intervention on each person. That seems possible to me but doesn't seem how it is being performed. so, it seems wrongly implemented and of limited if any value.

However, the claim above that the endowment and celestial marriages are invalid, is just WRONG. I know otherwise. However, those ordinances only promise the ordinance will be valid if sealed by the HSoP. Obtaining the HSoP is the task. As I said above it is exactly the same as baptism. We choose to be baptized by water. The HG or HSoP comes to us to give us the baptism of fire and HG when we're ready and are "just men made perfect". It isn't something we ask for. We ask by water and we are sealed up by fire.

The same concept should be in existence for C&E at any level, even celestial marriage. To assume every PSR has the sealing authority, under the current administration, seems a long, long stretch. IMO.

[Telavian]

I suppose it's possible it's just the lingering effects of the Brighamite spell upon me, but this makes me a little uncomfortable. And I realize that's fine. I can choose to engage in the discussion or not. But isn't this an ordinance we have plenty of reason to suppose is both legit and very sacred? To be clear, I realize it's totally possible it got perverted by Brigham Young along with everything else. But does it not seem pretty clear that Jesus was administering the washing of the feet at the Last Supper as a sacred ordinance, a Second Annointing that was essential to "have part with [Him]"?

Is the OP purpose to criticize the idea of a Second Annointing entirely, or just as perceived and administered by the LDS church?

I think all of God's true ordinances have a perverted version in Satan's kingdom. This is like how the Egyptians wanted the priesthood and so created their own versions of things.
I don't know if literal feet washing is part of being accepted by Christ. If it is then I struggle to see why a wife would wash the husbands feet or give him a blessing though.

[Nobody]

So your wife washes your feet or some nonsense (i really dont know all about it) and your guaranteed salvation? My FIL was an uppity-up in the churchs financial department. Im not sure what he did exactly but he always golfed and hung out with the church big-wigs. Always bragged about having dinner with "Elder Whatshisnuts and his wife." He was pretty open about how he and his with had their second annointing. Sure the guy was nice but he was also kind of a pompous fellow. Which makes me believe that this whole second annointing is some made up horseplay and actually has no affect on anyones salvation. I mean really, is this what God has set aside for someone to guarantee their eternal salvation? Seems a bit assinine to me.

Some would say baptism, or anything taught in the Bible sounds dumb.

I don’t know if 2nd Endowment is legit (I doubt it), but if it is, the natural man with his flawed logic wouldn’t understand it, only the spiritual man

[FrankOne]

Consider Baptism.

Originally, baptism was for the remission of sin all the way back to the Fall itself. In other words, you become completely purified.

Yet... nothing effectual happens. It's as much of a ritual as any other.

One day...we'll get the real thing and when a person is cleansed of all sin, the adversary will no longer be in your head. He'll be gone. He entered the first minds, Adam and Eve in the fall and it's been that way since then. The true baptism ends that.

the time will come.

[Erastothenes]

Obviously there is a Calling and Election Made Sure. So, why not a second anointing? HOWEVER, I agree the way it is handled doesn't seem to fit the bill in any way.

C&E is about god telling you that you have earned the "elect" status and that he knows you and that any sins you commit after obtaining it will be yours to bear, i.e. no more help from the atonement. So, does it make sense the Lord has an ordinance? Yes. The is a misconception on FF that only Jesus can confer you're C&E where it says in all scriptures the Holy Spirit of Promise or Second Comforter confers it. That is the Holy Ghost. In fact, the baptism of Fire and Holy Ghost is conferring upon you C&E or making you "elect". That is just the definition of it.

Now, we know that several people on the earth had the power to seal up any and everything, like Elijah. So, he had (at the time) the authority of the HSoP. He could perform an ordinance and convey a C&E and that would be same as the second anointing. It is said that Joseph had the sealing power as well. So, he could perform an ordinance, not sure the format would matter.

Now, does that mean BY on down have that level of sealing power? I don't think so, and if they did, it would take the Lord's intervention on each person. That seems possible to me but doesn't seem how it is being performed. so, it seems wrongly implemented and of limited if any value.

However, the claim above that the endowment and celestial marriages are invalid, is just WRONG. I know otherwise. However, those ordinances only promise the ordinance will be valid if sealed by the HSoP. Obtaining the HSoP is the task. As I said above it is exactly the same as baptism. We choose to be baptized by water. The HG or HSoP comes to us to give us the baptism of fire and HG when we're ready and are "just men made perfect". It isn't something we ask for. We ask by water and we are sealed up by fire.

The same concept should be in existence for C&E at any level, even celestial marriage. To assume every PSR has the sealing authority, under the current administration, seems a long, long stretch. IMO.

This makes much more sense to me. That to truly have a second annointing or C&E would be through the HS or Christ himself. Not through some rather silly foot washing ceremony.

[Good & Global]

Obviously there is a Calling and Election Made Sure. So, why not a second anointing? HOWEVER, I agree the way it is handled doesn't seem to fit the bill in any way.

C&E is about god telling you that you have earned the "elect" status and that he knows you and that any sins you commit after obtaining it will be yours to bear, i.e. no more help from the atonement. So, does it make sense the Lord has an ordinance? Yes. The is a misconception on FF that only Jesus can confer you're C&E where it says in all scriptures the Holy Spirit of Promise or Second Comforter confers it. That is the Holy Ghost. In fact, the baptism of Fire and Holy Ghost is conferring upon you C&E or making you "elect". That is just the definition of it.

Now, we know that several people on the earth had the power to seal up any and everything, like Elijah. So, he had (at the time) the authority of the HSoP. He could perform an ordinance and convey a C&E and that would be same as the second anointing. It is said that Joseph had the sealing power as well. So, he could perform an ordinance, not sure the format would matter.

Now, does that mean BY on down have that level of sealing power? I don't think so, and if they did, it would take the Lord's intervention on each person. That seems possible to me but doesn't seem how it is being performed. so, it seems wrongly implemented and of limited if any value.

However, the claim above that the endowment and celestial marriages are invalid, is just WRONG. I know otherwise. However, those ordinances only promise the ordinance will be valid if sealed by the HSoP. Obtaining the HSoP is the task. As I said above it is exactly the same as baptism. We choose to be baptized by water. The HG or HSoP comes to us to give us the baptism of fire and HG when we're ready and are "just men made perfect". It isn't something we ask for. We ask by water and we are sealed up by fire.

The same concept should be in existence for C&E at any level, even celestial marriage. To assume every PSR has the sealing authority, under the current administration, seems a long, long stretch. IMO.

I agree with Duke on many points in this response. At the core, calling and election made sure which my beliefs are that it exists would be granted by God, no other. The idea that men could recommend another person for this high and holy trust bestowed by the Lord is laughable at best.

One would expect to have walked through trials like Peter or Paul, even to point of living for and then dying for the Lord, that a crown would be laid up unto eternal life.

Not handed out for status, otherwise it undermines the entire plan of salvation and there is no point in having a plan at all. Yet it is evident that they did Second Annointings from the journals of Wilford Woodruff. It was also during this time when they stopped having people sealed to the Q15.

[FellowPilgrim]

Each Stake President used to keep two Recommend books in their desks. One for the rank and file members to go to the Temple (as today). The other for faithful old members to receive the Second Anointing ordinance. The Second Anointing ordinance was given much more frequent on the recommendation of Stake Presidents (until the early 20th Century). That changed under Heber J. Grant to less frequent and at a "Federal Level".

[Wolfwoman]

It’s symbolic of the real thing. I’m sure the real ordinance is much better.

No, the LDS church does not have the power to guarantee your salvation.

[ransomme]

Obviously there is a Calling and Election Made Sure. So, why not a second anointing? HOWEVER, I agree the way it is handled doesn't seem to fit the bill in any way.

C&E is about god telling you that you have earned the "elect" status and that he knows you and that any sins you commit after obtaining it will be yours to bear, i.e. no more help from the atonement. So, does it make sense the Lord has an ordinance? Yes. The is a misconception on FF that only Jesus can confer you're C&E where it says in all scriptures the Holy Spirit of Promise or Second Comforter confers it. That is the Holy Ghost. In fact, the baptism of Fire and Holy Ghost is conferring upon you C&E or making you "elect". That is just the definition of it.

Now, we know that several people on the earth had the power to seal up any and everything, like Elijah. So, he had (at the time) the authority of the HSoP. He could perform an ordinance and convey a C&E and that would be same as the second anointing. It is said that Joseph had the sealing power as well. So, he could perform an ordinance, not sure the format would matter.

Now, does that mean BY on down have that level of sealing power? I don't think so, and if they did, it would take the Lord's intervention on each person. That seems possible to me but doesn't seem how it is being performed. so, it seems wrongly implemented and of limited if any value.

However, the claim above that the endowment and celestial marriages are invalid, is just WRONG. I know otherwise. However, those ordinances only promise the ordinance will be valid if sealed by the HSoP. Obtaining the HSoP is the task. As I said above it is exactly the same as baptism. We choose to be baptized by water. The HG or HSoP comes to us to give us the baptism of fire and HG when we're ready and are "just men made perfect". It isn't something we ask for. We ask by water and we are sealed up by fire.

The same concept should be in existence for C&E at any level, even celestial marriage. To assume every PSR has the sealing authority, under the current administration, seems a long, long stretch. IMO.

Because, something performed by man is not the same.

Baptism, now there's something appropriate for us to administer, but a guarantee of salvation? Yeah, good luck with having God recognize that, let alone Justice.

Besides the pattern in the scriptures is that it is done via divine heavenly representation such as, God's voice, the Father, the Son, a messenger from God, etc.

Besides all ceremonies are only symbolic. Covenants need to be lived up to, fulfilled. Covenants, and ceremonies are promises of future blessings, not the actual thing. The actual things only come via divine manifestation.

Also, men like Enoch, Elijah, Nephi son of Helaman, etc. obtained the "sealing power" but that doesn't mean that they can "seal" or command whatever they want. For one they wouldn't want to, and secondly they only seal things in the name of Jesus, being one with Him, IE according to God's will.

I don't think a single PSR/Q15 has the "sealing" authority like Enoch, Elijah, Nephi, etc.

[ransomme]

No dumber than the endowment. Or baptism, for that matter.

Each sacred rite grants you additional special blessings and membership in a club more exclusive than the last.

Baptism is a sign given to God, like a handshake on a deal.

The "endowment" ceremony is instruction or even practice if you will.

The endowment comes when one receives the Spirit and also when one enters into His presence by following the pattern.