The Prophet WHO TEACHETH LIES

[InfoWarrior82]

Pick a prophet in our scriptures. Any prophet. Point to me where they do not write down the exact words of the Lord. Please, Duke. It will be a very fun exercise for you.

Not sure what you are asking here or how it could be accomplished. To be clear we have no "exact words" from Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, Joseph (of Egypt), or any prophet before the return from Babylon as it was all reconstructed by the Dueteronomists during the exile. Words handed down from verbal or perhaps partial scripts?

Not sure who captured the words of Isaiah, Jeremiah and others as the "exact" words as you say were at best written down 200-500 years later (we could argue about the brass plates with prophets around Lehi's time which may be captured near real time?) But the entire NT wasn't written by anyone that had the revelations, except maybe Paul's letters. So, for OT and NT outside of Paul, not one was written with "exact words" or by the prophet themselves!

For modern scripture. As far as D&C, there are many threads on the forum about the changes in words from the first moments to scribes to D&C. I guess you got then possibly Paul, PoGP for Abraham and Moses, perhaps some sections of the BoCommandments, and BoM if you take the translation process literally.

So, what are you asking for? Do you want to rehash the entire OT and gospels in NT? Not sure you're request.

BTW if you're suggesting that we aren't getting scriptures today, I wholeheartedly agree. but not sure what that has to do with writing down the "exact words".

You still haven't found a prophet in our scriptures where they have not said in some manner: "Thus saith the Lord" and then, we read the exact quote of the Lord speaking.

Please provide an example for us where this has NOT happened.

[TheDuke]

They claim to be PSRs but don't have any characteristics of PSRs. Do you actually believe they are not aware of this? Perhaps they lie to themselves?

I cannot answer this question without falling into the same trap, i.e. assessing their intent.

I have a couple issues with the PSR thing all-together. First there is no definition in any scripture of PSR as a priesthood calling or office. So, not sure what is meant by it. I bring this up every time I have a recommend interview. So, you ask if they have PSR "characteristics". Not sure what they are.

Now move away from PSR and ask about prophecy (none), Seering (none), Revelator (according to JS this is bringing new revelatory scripture (none). Now are they aware of this. Again speculation and my opinion (yes they must be).

Do they lie? Not likely. Like my argument with my bishop over the lack of Mother's Day replaced with ministering, he was both aware and feeling it was right. I see these men IMO, feeling they have the PH authority and doing what they can, and that being enough. I guess you could say they are lying to themselves but I don't know that.

I do know that if I showed them my seer stone, they'd toss me out the door and I know god gave it to me, but still I think they'd toss me out because they felt is was right, not because they wanted to hurt me personally.

I will go back again to Eli. Was he or was he not HP? Did or did not god send Samuel to learn from him? did or did not Samuel accept Eli as HP until his death? Did Eli let his sons ruin the temple? Lose the Ark? Did Eli know about this, yes BTW it says he tried to turn his sons but couldn't. Was Eli a liar or evil? Doesn't say that in the OT. It says Samuel followed Eli until his death falling off the wall after the battle where the ark was lost. So, Eli had the authority of HP, passed it on to Samuel, but seemed not to have any fruits (well after blessing Hannah anyway).

Does that answer your query?

[TheDuke]

good point. I can accept that the teachings are lies. I just don't see any evidence that their intent was to deceive.

I think Reluctant and others are perhaps frustrated because the explanation of lies coming from somewhere else but yet finding utterance out of the mouth an authority figure even the very one that speaks for the entire church is disconcerting to say the least and should in no way be excused by usual plausible deniablity as people died.

I myself believe these deaths were grave injustices if they originated for no other reason than people placing trust in the words of one who speaks for God and having their fates ultimately decided by faulty public opinion which they may not have followed otherwise had it not been said by a prophet.

I agree with you. I'm in the same boat. but that does not imply or provide evidence of intention to hurt someone. And btw they may still think they saved many lives as well. There are still those claiming we only made it out of the pandemic due to the vaxes. I mean this is what the majority of people (I'd guess in my area 95/100) still think! BTW it may have been true in the short run, my fear (read my posts since the beginning) is the long-term effects of mRNA, not the immediate issues.

BTW Capt Moroni killed many of his own men in battle to save others. It is how life works. so to some, loosing a few to vax to save many more is acceptable! I'm not saying it is right, I am saying what the majority believed and still believe, and showing it has precedence in god's ways as well.

[Reluctant Watchman]

^^^ WTH? Moroni killed many of his own men?
I get what you are trying to say (I think). Moroni took his men to battle knowing that some of them may die in order to protect the lives and freedoms of his family and friends. I think I’d word it a bit differently.

The vax DID NOT SAVE LIVES!!!

To make the correlation between the jab, RMN, and the actions of Moroni are astronomically different.

[Good & Global]

BTW Capt Moroni killed many of his own men in battle to save others. It is how life works. so to some, loosing a few to vax to save many more is acceptable! I'm not saying it is right, I am saying what the majority believed and still believe, and showing it has precedence in god's ways as well.

Note to self never go on a church campout with Duke without a good pair of running shoes.

[Subcomandante]

They claim to be PSRs but don't have any characteristics of PSRs. Do you actually believe they are not aware of this? Perhaps they lie to themselves?

I cannot answer this question without falling into the same trap, i.e. assessing their intent.

I have a couple issues with the PSR thing all-together. First there is no definition in any scripture of PSR as a priesthood calling or office. So, not sure what is meant by it. I bring this up every time I have a recommend interview. So, you ask if they have PSR "characteristics". Not sure what they are.

Now move away from PSR and ask about prophecy (none), Seering (none), Revelator (according to JS this is bringing new revelatory scripture (none). Now are they aware of this. Again speculation and my opinion (yes they must be).

Do they lie? Not likely. Like my argument with my bishop over the lack of Mother's Day replaced with ministering, he was both aware and feeling it was right. I see these men IMO, feeling they have the PH authority and doing what they can, and that being enough. I guess you could say they are lying to themselves but I don't know that.

I do know that if I showed them my seer stone, they'd toss me out the door and I know god gave it to me, but still I think they'd toss me out because they felt is was right, not because they wanted to hurt me personally.

I will go back again to Eli. Was he or was he not HP? Did or did not god send Samuel to learn from him? did or did not Samuel accept Eli as HP until his death? Did Eli let his sons ruin the temple? Lose the Ark? Did Eli know about this, yes BTW it says he tried to turn his sons but couldn't. Was Eli a liar or evil? Doesn't say that in the OT. It says Samuel followed Eli until his death falling off the wall after the battle where the ark was lost. So, Eli had the authority of HP, passed it on to Samuel, but seemed not to have any fruits (well after blessing Hannah anyway).

Does that answer your query?

It could even be said that Jesus during his mortal ministry, after he performed several of his miracles, he still asked those that had been leprous before, to go to the priests to follow the law regarding being cleaned from leprosy.

And right before he tore the Pharisees a new one, he did say to those that followed Him, to follow what the doctors and Pharisees said about the law, but NOT to do as they do, becuase they say to do something and then proceed to do the opposite.

He even told the person who questioned about the paying of taxes to Rome, to give to Caesar his lot and to give God his lot. Knowing full well that Caesar had his lot thanks to God.

He also distinguished the OFFICE that someone had, from the CHARACTER of the people holding those offices. The priests were definitely in apostasy in Jesus' time, nevertheless, he told the recently cleaned lepers, to GO to them so that their new clean state could be confirmed. Has Russell lied? Perhaps, and more than likely re COVID, he certainly did. It would not be the first time that a prophet, in THIS dispensation or in previous dispensations, has done so. This for many, including myself, is a VERY uncomfortable truth.

Even with all of this, though, Jesus provided a MORE EXCELLENT WAY. He took the understanding of the law, and then made it higher. Adultery was no longer going to be having sexual relations with a strange woman. It was now going to be looking upon a strange woman with lust for her in your heart. Murder would no longer be physically killing an innocent. It would now become becoming excessively angry with another with a momentary thought to kill or harm the person. Tithing was no longer going to be giving a portion of your money or your offerings to the Lord. It was now going to be doing that with the feeling of justice, mercy, and faith, and the main onus on those that collect the tithes, likewise, to do so with the feeling of justice, mercy, and faith.



What should I do in the face of these things?

The most important thing is to follow God, and follow His Son Jesus Christ, and seek Their help and guidance in all that I do.

[InfoWarrior82]

They claim to be PSRs but don't have any characteristics of PSRs. Do you actually believe they are not aware of this? Perhaps they lie to themselves?

I cannot answer this question without falling into the same trap, i.e. assessing their intent.

I have a couple issues with the PSR thing all-together. First there is no definition in any scripture of PSR as a priesthood calling or office. So, not sure what is meant by it. I bring this up every time I have a recommend interview. So, you ask if they have PSR "characteristics". Not sure what they are.

Now move away from PSR and ask about prophecy (none), Seering (none), Revelator (according to JS this is bringing new revelatory scripture (none). Now are they aware of this. Again speculation and my opinion (yes they must be).

Do they lie? Not likely. Like my argument with my bishop over the lack of Mother's Day replaced with ministering, he was both aware and feeling it was right. I see these men IMO, feeling they have the PH authority and doing what they can, and that being enough. I guess you could say they are lying to themselves but I don't know that.

I do know that if I showed them my seer stone, they'd toss me out the door and I know god gave it to me, but still I think they'd toss me out because they felt is was right, not because they wanted to hurt me personally.

I will go back again to Eli. Was he or was he not HP? Did or did not god send Samuel to learn from him? did or did not Samuel accept Eli as HP until his death? Did Eli let his sons ruin the temple? Lose the Ark? Did Eli know about this, yes BTW it says he tried to turn his sons but couldn't. Was Eli a liar or evil? Doesn't say that in the OT. It says Samuel followed Eli until his death falling off the wall after the battle where the ark was lost. So, Eli had the authority of HP, passed it on to Samuel, but seemed not to have any fruits (well after blessing Hannah anyway).

Does that answer your query?

You forget that being ordained, or having keys passed onto you, does not automatically mean that you are worthy to exercise the power of God and manifest fruits of said authority. (D&C 121). I think this particular OT story can be seen as an example of this. Same with the B.O.M. "stewards of the record" Jarom and Omni.

But going back to them *knowing* that they do not fit the bill of a scriptural PSR.... please make the case that they are ignorant of this fact and not smart enough.

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

^^^ One of the longest-standing theologies in the LDS religion is that the prophet cannot lead you astray. The simple fact that they teach this abominable philosophy is worthy of a little hanging and drying.

It's less a "theology" and more an "administrative imperative". It's part of the organizational chart. It's how communication flows in an organization. In this case it's top down communication rather than bottom up.

Its really hard to take seriously any attempt at bottom up forms of communication, though we try with councils, and Q&A etc., since the theology undergirding the organizational structure is based on revelation---the ultimate form of top down communication.

The problem with the "ultimate" form of top down communication (revelation), is that crooks, thieves, gangsters, politicians, CEO's, tax evaders, grifters, hacks, money diggers, money launderers, lawyers, and the like have figured out that "faking revelations" works on a lot of people. To claim revelation is to claim to speak for the ultimate law giver. It's pretty weighty stuff. Sadly, it's a con that's been used successfully for centuries and to great effect if you're in the business of conning people out of their money and demanding their allegiance.

[TheDuke]

They claim to be PSRs but don't have any characteristics of PSRs. Do you actually believe they are not aware of this? Perhaps they lie to themselves?

I cannot answer this question without falling into the same trap, i.e. assessing their intent.

I have a couple issues with the PSR thing all-together. First there is no definition in any scripture of PSR as a priesthood calling or office. So, not sure what is meant by it. I bring this up every time I have a recommend interview. So, you ask if they have PSR "characteristics". Not sure what they are.

Now move away from PSR and ask about prophecy (none), Seering (none), Revelator (according to JS this is bringing new revelatory scripture (none). Now are they aware of this. Again speculation and my opinion (yes they must be).

Do they lie? Not likely. Like my argument with my bishop over the lack of Mother's Day replaced with ministering, he was both aware and feeling it was right. I see these men IMO, feeling they have the PH authority and doing what they can, and that being enough. I guess you could say they are lying to themselves but I don't know that.

I do know that if I showed them my seer stone, they'd toss me out the door and I know god gave it to me, but still I think they'd toss me out because they felt is was right, not because they wanted to hurt me personally.

I will go back again to Eli. Was he or was he not HP? Did or did not god send Samuel to learn from him? did or did not Samuel accept Eli as HP until his death? Did Eli let his sons ruin the temple? Lose the Ark? Did Eli know about this, yes BTW it says he tried to turn his sons but couldn't. Was Eli a liar or evil? Doesn't say that in the OT. It says Samuel followed Eli until his death falling off the wall after the battle where the ark was lost. So, Eli had the authority of HP, passed it on to Samuel, but seemed not to have any fruits (well after blessing Hannah anyway).

Does that answer your query?

You forget that being ordained, or having keys passed onto you, does not automatically mean that you are worthy to exercise the power of God and manifest fruits of said authority. (D&C 121). I think this particular OT story can be seen as an example of this. Same with the B.O.M. "stewards of the record" Jarom and Omni.

But going back to them *knowing* that they do not fit the bill of a scriptural PSR.... please make the case that they are ignorant of this fact and not smart enough.

I don't have to BTW, maybe if I was in France or somewhere. but I'm an American. Therefore, it is on those who cast the guilt to prove, innocence never has to. But, to your point, I have already posted Eyring's real-time comments (circa 2020-2021) where he let out his understanding of the situation between his tears. It didn't persuade me to press my son get the jab before returning, no the opposite; but it did show he was heartfelt in believing the "herd immunity" story being pushed back then. the link is posted on the Forum if you search it. I don't feel the need. Also, there are a least a dozen threads that claim evil of the COVID approach and none have a shred of evidence of ill intent, I have posted this along with my personal defiance against their position from the start. search it at your leisure.

BTW if you were at all awake by the left's pursuit of the same claims you make but in reverse, you would see that it is the same law that makes it impossible for the left to convict Trump, well in an honest court. as they need to prove intent in every case. And you can only convict another person's intent with their own words.

[Atrasado]

I cannot answer this question without falling into the same trap, i.e. assessing their intent.

I have a couple issues with the PSR thing all-together. First there is no definition in any scripture of PSR as a priesthood calling or office. So, not sure what is meant by it. I bring this up every time I have a recommend interview. So, you ask if they have PSR "characteristics". Not sure what they are.

Now move away from PSR and ask about prophecy (none), Seering (none), Revelator (according to JS this is bringing new revelatory scripture (none). Now are they aware of this. Again speculation and my opinion (yes they must be).

Do they lie? Not likely. Like my argument with my bishop over the lack of Mother's Day replaced with ministering, he was both aware and feeling it was right. I see these men IMO, feeling they have the PH authority and doing what they can, and that being enough. I guess you could say they are lying to themselves but I don't know that.

I do know that if I showed them my seer stone, they'd toss me out the door and I know god gave it to me, but still I think they'd toss me out because they felt is was right, not because they wanted to hurt me personally.

I will go back again to Eli. Was he or was he not HP? Did or did not god send Samuel to learn from him? did or did not Samuel accept Eli as HP until his death? Did Eli let his sons ruin the temple? Lose the Ark? Did Eli know about this, yes BTW it says he tried to turn his sons but couldn't. Was Eli a liar or evil? Doesn't say that in the OT. It says Samuel followed Eli until his death falling off the wall after the battle where the ark was lost. So, Eli had the authority of HP, passed it on to Samuel, but seemed not to have any fruits (well after blessing Hannah anyway).

Does that answer your query?

You forget that being ordained, or having keys passed onto you, does not automatically mean that you are worthy to exercise the power of God and manifest fruits of said authority. (D&C 121). I think this particular OT story can be seen as an example of this. Same with the B.O.M. "stewards of the record" Jarom and Omni.

But going back to them *knowing* that they do not fit the bill of a scriptural PSR.... please make the case that they are ignorant of this fact and not smart enough.

I don't have to BTW, maybe if I was in France or somewhere. but I'm an American. Therefore, it is on those who cast the guilt to prove, innocence never has to. But, to your point, I have already posted Eyring's real-time comments (circa 2020-2021) where he let out his understanding of the situation between his tears. It didn't persuade me to press my son get the jab before returning, no the opposite; but it did show he was heartfelt in believing the "herd immunity" story being pushed back then. the link is posted on the Forum if you search it. I don't feel the need. Also, there are a least a dozen threads that claim evil of the COVID approach and none have a shred of evidence of ill intent, I have posted this along with my personal defiance against their position from the start. search it at your leisure.

BTW if you were at all awake by the left's pursuit of the same claims you make but in reverse, you would see that it is the same law that makes it impossible for the left to convict Trump, well in an honest court. as they need to prove intent in every case. And you can only convict another person's intent with their own words.

Or Hal is a very good and practiced actor. I'm guessing the latter. After all, we can't really see anyone's intent, except as revealed through the Spirit. That's why the Savior can judge justly and we can't, because we don't see clearly and he does.

[TheDuke]

You forget that being ordained, or having keys passed onto you, does not automatically mean that you are worthy to exercise the power of God and manifest fruits of said authority. (D&C 121). I think this particular OT story can be seen as an example of this. Same with the B.O.M. "stewards of the record" Jarom and Omni.

But going back to them *knowing* that they do not fit the bill of a scriptural PSR.... please make the case that they are ignorant of this fact and not smart enough.

I don't have to BTW, maybe if I was in France or somewhere. but I'm an American. Therefore, it is on those who cast the guilt to prove, innocence never has to. But, to your point, I have already posted Eyring's real-time comments (circa 2020-2021) where he let out his understanding of the situation between his tears. It didn't persuade me to press my son get the jab before returning, no the opposite; but it did show he was heartfelt in believing the "herd immunity" story being pushed back then. the link is posted on the Forum if you search it. I don't feel the need. Also, there are a least a dozen threads that claim evil of the COVID approach and none have a shred of evidence of ill intent, I have posted this along with my personal defiance against their position from the start. search it at your leisure.

BTW if you were at all awake by the left's pursuit of the same claims you make but in reverse, you would see that it is the same law that makes it impossible for the left to convict Trump, well in an honest court. as they need to prove intent in every case. And you can only convict another person's intent with their own words.

Or Hal is a very good and practiced actor. I'm guessing the latter. After all, we can't really see anyone's intent, except as revealed through the Spirit. That's why the Savior can judge justly and we can't, because we don't see clearly and he does.

Hal?

Sometimes you can determine intent. In fact, quite often. But it is when the person wants you to. And when there is evidence to point to it. It is difficult but watch every murder case. Everyone. of the guilty, 90% or so (guessing there) are already confirmed that the person is dead and the defendant is guilty. the issue then is "intent". with bad intent is murder, with limited intent (last minute, extenuating circumstances, etc..) is manslaughter. with no intent is self defense. It goes with "motive"

[Cruiserdude]

They claim to be PSRs but don't have any characteristics of PSRs. Do you actually believe they are not aware of this? Perhaps they lie to themselves?

I cannot answer this question without falling into the same trap, i.e. assessing their intent.

I have a couple issues with the PSR thing all-together. First there is no definition in any scripture of PSR as a priesthood calling or office. So, not sure what is meant by it. I bring this up every time I have a recommend interview. So, you ask if they have PSR "characteristics". Not sure what they are.

Now move away from PSR and ask about prophecy (none), Seering (none), Revelator (according to JS this is bringing new revelatory scripture (none). Now are they aware of this. Again speculation and my opinion (yes they must be).

Do they lie? Not likely. Like my argument with my bishop over the lack of Mother's Day replaced with ministering, he was both aware and feeling it was right. I see these men IMO, feeling they have the PH authority and doing what they can, and that being enough. I guess you could say they are lying to themselves but I don't know that.

I do know that if I showed them my seer stone, they'd toss me out the door and I know god gave it to me, but still I think they'd toss me out because they felt is was right, not because they wanted to hurt me personally.

I will go back again to Eli. Was he or was he not HP? Did or did not god send Samuel to learn from him? did or did not Samuel accept Eli as HP until his death? Did Eli let his sons ruin the temple? Lose the Ark? Did Eli know about this, yes BTW it says he tried to turn his sons but couldn't. Was Eli a liar or evil? Doesn't say that in the OT. It says Samuel followed Eli until his death falling off the wall after the battle where the ark was lost. So, Eli had the authority of HP, passed it on to Samuel, but seemed not to have any fruits (well after blessing Hannah anyway).

Does that answer your query?

It could even be said that Jesus during his mortal ministry, after he performed several of his miracles, he still asked those that had been leprous before, to go to the priests to follow the law regarding being cleaned from leprosy.

And right before he tore the Pharisees a new one, he did say to those that followed Him, to follow what the doctors and Pharisees said about the law, but NOT to do as they do, becuase they say to do something and then proceed to do the opposite.

He even told the person who questioned about the paying of taxes to Rome, to give to Caesar his lot and to give God his lot. Knowing full well that Caesar had his lot thanks to God.

He also distinguished the OFFICE that someone had, from the CHARACTER of the people holding those offices. The priests were definitely in apostasy in Jesus' time, nevertheless, he told the recently cleaned lepers, to GO to them so that their new clean state could be confirmed. Has Russell lied? Perhaps, and more than likely re COVID, he certainly did. It would not be the first time that a prophet, in THIS dispensation or in previous dispensations, has done so. This for many, including myself, is a VERY uncomfortable truth.

Even with all of this, though, Jesus provided a MORE EXCELLENT WAY. He took the understanding of the law, and then made it higher. Adultery was no longer going to be having sexual relations with a strange woman. It was now going to be looking upon a strange woman with lust for her in your heart. Murder would no longer be physically killing an innocent. It would now become becoming excessively angry with another with a momentary thought to kill or harm the person. Tithing was no longer going to be giving a portion of your money or your offerings to the Lord. It was now going to be doing that with the feeling of justice, mercy, and faith, and the main onus on those that collect the tithes, likewise, to do so with the feeling of justice, mercy, and faith.



What should I do in the face of these things?

The most important thing is to follow God, and follow His Son Jesus Christ, and seek Their help and guidance in all that I do.

You see clearly, Sub

[InfoWarrior82]

I cannot answer this question without falling into the same trap, i.e. assessing their intent.

I have a couple issues with the PSR thing all-together. First there is no definition in any scripture of PSR as a priesthood calling or office. So, not sure what is meant by it. I bring this up every time I have a recommend interview. So, you ask if they have PSR "characteristics". Not sure what they are.

Now move away from PSR and ask about prophecy (none), Seering (none), Revelator (according to JS this is bringing new revelatory scripture (none). Now are they aware of this. Again speculation and my opinion (yes they must be).

Do they lie? Not likely. Like my argument with my bishop over the lack of Mother's Day replaced with ministering, he was both aware and feeling it was right. I see these men IMO, feeling they have the PH authority and doing what they can, and that being enough. I guess you could say they are lying to themselves but I don't know that.

I do know that if I showed them my seer stone, they'd toss me out the door and I know god gave it to me, but still I think they'd toss me out because they felt is was right, not because they wanted to hurt me personally.

I will go back again to Eli. Was he or was he not HP? Did or did not god send Samuel to learn from him? did or did not Samuel accept Eli as HP until his death? Did Eli let his sons ruin the temple? Lose the Ark? Did Eli know about this, yes BTW it says he tried to turn his sons but couldn't. Was Eli a liar or evil? Doesn't say that in the OT. It says Samuel followed Eli until his death falling off the wall after the battle where the ark was lost. So, Eli had the authority of HP, passed it on to Samuel, but seemed not to have any fruits (well after blessing Hannah anyway).

Does that answer your query?

You forget that being ordained, or having keys passed onto you, does not automatically mean that you are worthy to exercise the power of God and manifest fruits of said authority. (D&C 121). I think this particular OT story can be seen as an example of this. Same with the B.O.M. "stewards of the record" Jarom and Omni.

But going back to them *knowing* that they do not fit the bill of a scriptural PSR.... please make the case that they are ignorant of this fact and not smart enough.

I don't have to BTW, maybe if I was in France or somewhere. but I'm an American. Therefore, it is on those who cast the guilt to prove, innocence never has to. But, to your point, I have already posted Eyring's real-time comments (circa 2020-2021) where he let out his understanding of the situation between his tears. It didn't persuade me to press my son get the jab before returning, no the opposite; but it did show he was heartfelt in believing the "herd immunity" story being pushed back then. the link is posted on the Forum if you search it. I don't feel the need. Also, there are a least a dozen threads that claim evil of the COVID approach and none have a shred of evidence of ill intent, I have posted this along with my personal defiance against their position from the start. search it at your leisure.

BTW if you were at all awake by the left's pursuit of the same claims you make but in reverse, you would see that it is the same law that makes it impossible for the left to convict Trump, well in an honest court. as they need to prove intent in every case. And you can only convict another person's intent with their own words.

You see, Duke... the scriptures are the key here.


Using the scriptures, what is the only reason why a priesthood holder is unable to manifest the power and authority of God via those keys to which he was ordained? (Not a rhetorical question!)

***This is the key the Lord gave to us so that we can know the true intent of our church leaders so that we will not be deceived and led astray.

[Luke]

E-mail from:

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants, an unrelenting pandemic. We want to do all we can to limit the spread of these viruses. We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.

To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

good catch. And very accurate. follows my quote from Eyring on herd immunity. IT never says they had any knowledge the vaxes were NOT either safe or effective in 2021. As I said quoting the line from the testing. No claiming revelation and NO EVIDENCE of ILL INTENT.

GIVE UP there is NONE!

Whether there was ill intent or not, it was still a complete lie.

[Subcomandante]

You forget that being ordained, or having keys passed onto you, does not automatically mean that you are worthy to exercise the power of God and manifest fruits of said authority. (D&C 121). I think this particular OT story can be seen as an example of this. Same with the B.O.M. "stewards of the record" Jarom and Omni.

But going back to them *knowing* that they do not fit the bill of a scriptural PSR.... please make the case that they are ignorant of this fact and not smart enough.

I don't have to BTW, maybe if I was in France or somewhere. but I'm an American. Therefore, it is on those who cast the guilt to prove, innocence never has to. But, to your point, I have already posted Eyring's real-time comments (circa 2020-2021) where he let out his understanding of the situation between his tears. It didn't persuade me to press my son get the jab before returning, no the opposite; but it did show he was heartfelt in believing the "herd immunity" story being pushed back then. the link is posted on the Forum if you search it. I don't feel the need. Also, there are a least a dozen threads that claim evil of the COVID approach and none have a shred of evidence of ill intent, I have posted this along with my personal defiance against their position from the start. search it at your leisure.

BTW if you were at all awake by the left's pursuit of the same claims you make but in reverse, you would see that it is the same law that makes it impossible for the left to convict Trump, well in an honest court. as they need to prove intent in every case. And you can only convict another person's intent with their own words.

You see, Duke... the scriptures are the key here.


Using the scriptures, what is the only reason why a priesthood holder is unable to manifest the power and authority of God via those keys to which he was ordained? (Not a rhetorical question!)

***This is the key the Lord gave to us so that we can know the true intent of our church leaders so that we will not be deceived and led astray.

There is more than one reason why a priesthood leader is unable to manifest the power and authority of God. Not just a priesthood leader, the same Son of God Himself, whom the Priesthood belongs to to begin with (remember what the name of the Melchizedek Priesthood was called before it was called that!)

Number one: The Priesthood holder is not worthy though he possess the keys. He has been committing sins and breaking his covenants he made with the Lord.

Number two: The Priesthood holder claims authority which is not his to begin with (priestcraft), exercising unrighteous dominion in that office. This is also a case where the priesthood holder is not worthy.

Number three: This one in this day and age is more common than people think. The Priesthood Holder, otherwise being worthy to exercise his power, does not know that he can exercise specific powers because he is unaware of their existence. This one is solvable, one only need to read the Scriptures to find out just what those powers are, and to understand them.

Number four: The priesthood holder is worthy but the local people being unworthy are undeserving of the priesthood holder. This is when the Lord tells the prophets to shut their mouth. This is when the miracles and powers are taken away from among the people. This happens due to a dearth of faith amongst those who are looking for miracles as well as grievously sinful behavior in which they willfully rebel against the Lord. What follows is a cursing for those people.

In today's Church we have a combination of these four issues today. When we do not really investigate the Scriptures and follow them we become cursed as a people. When we accept as doctrine the commandments of men, we become cursed. Others are ignorant of their true power they have in the Priesthood. Leaders, general and local, have miffed on their responsibilities. A few have become outrageously sinful. Others claim an authority which is only the Lord's to give, and take the Lord's name in vain when they do so...

I could be very well missing on other issues...if there are more, please feel free to add on to this list I have begun.

[Ymarsakar]

When you mess up your DNA with shots, of course you don't have your divine kingdom DNA keys.

[InfoWarrior82]

I don't have to BTW, maybe if I was in France or somewhere. but I'm an American. Therefore, it is on those who cast the guilt to prove, innocence never has to. But, to your point, I have already posted Eyring's real-time comments (circa 2020-2021) where he let out his understanding of the situation between his tears. It didn't persuade me to press my son get the jab before returning, no the opposite; but it did show he was heartfelt in believing the "herd immunity" story being pushed back then. the link is posted on the Forum if you search it. I don't feel the need. Also, there are a least a dozen threads that claim evil of the COVID approach and none have a shred of evidence of ill intent, I have posted this along with my personal defiance against their position from the start. search it at your leisure.

BTW if you were at all awake by the left's pursuit of the same claims you make but in reverse, you would see that it is the same law that makes it impossible for the left to convict Trump, well in an honest court. as they need to prove intent in every case. And you can only convict another person's intent with their own words.

You see, Duke... the scriptures are the key here.


Using the scriptures, what is the only reason why a priesthood holder is unable to manifest the power and authority of God via those keys to which he was ordained? (Not a rhetorical question!)

***This is the key the Lord gave to us so that we can know the true intent of our church leaders so that we will not be deceived and led astray.

There is more than one reason why a priesthood leader is unable to manifest the power and authority of God. Not just a priesthood leader, the same Son of God Himself, whom the Priesthood belongs to to begin with (remember what the name of the Melchizedek Priesthood was called before it was called that!)

Number one: The Priesthood holder is not worthy though he possess the keys. He has been committing sins and breaking his covenants he made with the Lord.

Number two: The Priesthood holder claims authority which is not his to begin with (priestcraft), exercising unrighteous dominion in that office. This is also a case where the priesthood holder is not worthy.

Number three: This one in this day and age is more common than people think. The Priesthood Holder, otherwise being worthy to exercise his power, does not know that he can exercise specific powers because he is unaware of their existence. This one is solvable, one only need to read the Scriptures to find out just what those powers are, and to understand them.

Number four: The priesthood holder is worthy but the local people being unworthy are undeserving of the priesthood holder. This is when the Lord tells the prophets to shut their mouth. This is when the miracles and powers are taken away from among the people. This happens due to a dearth of faith amongst those who are looking for miracles as well as grievously sinful behavior in which they willfully rebel against the Lord. What follows is a cursing for those people.

In today's Church we have a combination of these four issues today. When we do not really investigate the Scriptures and follow them we become cursed as a people. When we accept as doctrine the commandments of men, we become cursed. Others are ignorant of their true power they have in the Priesthood. Leaders, general and local, have miffed on their responsibilities. A few have become outrageously sinful. Others claim an authority which is only the Lord's to give, and take the Lord's name in vain when they do so...

I could be very well missing on other issues...if there are more, please feel free to add on to this list I have begun.

Citation needed.

[4Joshua8]

Like I said elsewhere, they either lied about the safe and effective vaccine or they're lying about having the gifts of revelation, prophecy, and seership.

Unless God just didn't participate on this issue and left it all up to them. But they are the ones who strongly implied the vax was an answer to prayer and a literal godsend.

So we come full circle.

My personal feeling, which could be wrong, is that they really are errant and fallible enough to trust the "wise and thoughtful" leaders they so readily praise and revere. They really thought their people at Pfizer (and the other pharms) worked a miracle. They really wanted us all to get the vax. And they really expected it to be a miraculous result, based on the world's people's obedience.

Where I believe they're lying is in the claim to have and use the gifts of revelation, prophecy, and seership, even if they do occasionally access revelation on a case by case basis for certain individuals they're serving at a given time.

The sooner they repent of the charade, the sooner we can all heal.

Perhaps repenting of the claim to have those gifts is the key to the Lord trusting them enough to give them those gifts. But what do I know. I've never even been an elder's quorum president, so I obviously have no credibility to say anything. Maybe if I had been a bishop or SP, my opinion would matter.

[Subcomandante]

You see, Duke... the scriptures are the key here.


Using the scriptures, what is the only reason why a priesthood holder is unable to manifest the power and authority of God via those keys to which he was ordained? (Not a rhetorical question!)

***This is the key the Lord gave to us so that we can know the true intent of our church leaders so that we will not be deceived and led astray.

There is more than one reason why a priesthood leader is unable to manifest the power and authority of God. Not just a priesthood leader, the same Son of God Himself, whom the Priesthood belongs to to begin with (remember what the name of the Melchizedek Priesthood was called before it was called that!)

Number one: The Priesthood holder is not worthy though he possess the keys. He has been committing sins and breaking his covenants he made with the Lord.

Number two: The Priesthood holder claims authority which is not his to begin with (priestcraft), exercising unrighteous dominion in that office. This is also a case where the priesthood holder is not worthy.

Number three: This one in this day and age is more common than people think. The Priesthood Holder, otherwise being worthy to exercise his power, does not know that he can exercise specific powers because he is unaware of their existence. This one is solvable, one only need to read the Scriptures to find out just what those powers are, and to understand them.

Number four: The priesthood holder is worthy but the local people being unworthy are undeserving of the priesthood holder. This is when the Lord tells the prophets to shut their mouth. This is when the miracles and powers are taken away from among the people. This happens due to a dearth of faith amongst those who are looking for miracles as well as grievously sinful behavior in which they willfully rebel against the Lord. What follows is a cursing for those people.

In today's Church we have a combination of these four issues today. When we do not really investigate the Scriptures and follow them we become cursed as a people. When we accept as doctrine the commandments of men, we become cursed. Others are ignorant of their true power they have in the Priesthood. Leaders, general and local, have miffed on their responsibilities. A few have become outrageously sinful. Others claim an authority which is only the Lord's to give, and take the Lord's name in vain when they do so...

I could be very well missing on other issues...if there are more, please feel free to add on to this list I have begun.

Citation needed.

Case one would be Corianton when he went awhoring rather than simply charlie miking. There are other examples; this is the first one that pops up.

Case two would be any Church leader today that finds himself offending the Lord, using his authority to preach doctrine that has nothing to do with what the Scriptures say. There are bunches of them; some find themselves amongst what are called the red seat crew on this forum.

Case three: Doctrine and Covenants 13 and 84 talk much about the oath and covenant of the Priesthood and 123:12 speaks about the ignorant that do not know where to find the truth. There are quite a few in the Church today that need help finding these things. Ask an Aaronic Priesthood holder in your local ward or branch if they know that they have the power of the ministering of angels and how can that power be obtained.

Case four: It is shown in the Book of Mormon and the New Testament that Christ performed miracles to the faithful, and that he did not do so many miracles in Capernaum because those people were stiffnecked. Heck, even in his own city of Nazareth he didn't perform any miracles, at least, none documented in the four Gospels.

To everyone else: There are more than likely other cases which I have not mentioned. If you find them feel free to add them, and also add a citation or reference per InfoWarrior's request.

[Good & Global]

Like I said elsewhere, they either lied about the safe and effective vaccine or they're lying about having the gifts of revelation, prophecy, and seership.

Unless God just didn't participate on this issue and left it all up to them. But they are the ones who strongly implied the vax was an answer to prayer and a literal godsend.

So we come full circle.

Where I believe they're lying is in the claim to have and use the gifts of revelation, prophecy, and seership, even if they do occasionally access revelation on a case by case basis for certain individuals they're serving at a given time.

It is quite simple God remained silent so these men were allowed the space to use their agency to come up with the best conclusion they could and pray about it. Barring anything negative they were in their right to proceed forward with that conclusion. These men were allowed to grow in their priesthood. Full stop.

People died as a result but that is the price to be paid for developing these extraordinary men. This is why they were born of a special blood. You can argue about it all day long but I can assure you you are looking beyond the mark. Them are facts and rules are rules.

[Reluctant Watchman]

To "PS" all of this commentary, wasn't it such a blessing to so many to have them tip their hand the way that they did? I mean, really, for many it couldn't have been clearer as to whom they were listening to.

[Atrasado]

I don't have to BTW, maybe if I was in France or somewhere. but I'm an American. Therefore, it is on those who cast the guilt to prove, innocence never has to. But, to your point, I have already posted Eyring's real-time comments (circa 2020-2021) where he let out his understanding of the situation between his tears. It didn't persuade me to press my son get the jab before returning, no the opposite; but it did show he was heartfelt in believing the "herd immunity" story being pushed back then. the link is posted on the Forum if you search it. I don't feel the need. Also, there are a least a dozen threads that claim evil of the COVID approach and none have a shred of evidence of ill intent, I have posted this along with my personal defiance against their position from the start. search it at your leisure.

BTW if you were at all awake by the left's pursuit of the same claims you make but in reverse, you would see that it is the same law that makes it impossible for the left to convict Trump, well in an honest court. as they need to prove intent in every case. And you can only convict another person's intent with their own words.

Or Hal is a very good and practiced actor. I'm guessing the latter. After all, we can't really see anyone's intent, except as revealed through the Spirit. That's why the Savior can judge justly and we can't, because we don't see clearly and he does.

Hal?

Sometimes you can determine intent. In fact, quite often. But it is when the person wants you to. And when there is evidence to point to it. It is difficult but watch every murder case. Everyone. of the guilty, 90% or so (guessing there) are already confirmed that the person is dead and the defendant is guilty. the issue then is "intent". with bad intent is murder, with limited intent (last minute, extenuating circumstances, etc..) is manslaughter. with no intent is self defense. It goes with "motive"

Hal is what his friends call him. He's definitely not a personal friend. However, in his role as a presiding high priest of the Church he lied and got two of my children to take those d*** shots. Thus, according to Deuteronomy 18:20-22 we are commanded to NOT fear (respect, honor, or obey) him. So he doesn't get President Eyring from me anymore. He's lucky he gets Hal. Devil, @#!!$#!%, and son of perdition seem more appropriate to me but less kind, and even though we shouldn't fear him, we also shouldn't judge him either. So, I call him Hal.

[FrankOne]

thinking about my last post that was in Response to Duke's, I've realized that semantics become a problem when some try to nail down a word in order to avoid confronting the problem.

example: " The prophet who teacheth lies." Answer from some: "they aren't lying and you can't prove they are":

change for no wiggle room:

"The Prophet who teaches dangerous falsehoods and evil precepts that harm and endanger his own congregation"
. .. No wiggle room there.

from what Duke has said, I think he'll agree with this one

[blitzinstripes]

With the threat of lockdowns and another round of tyranny on the horizon, let us not forget Bednar's LASHING of the PTB and boldly testifying that NEVER AGAIN can we allow religious worship to be deemed "non essential". (Video link if I can find it.)
https://youtu.be/_GnM-CXBdwA?si=xtYKjvimByWQprBd

I'm legitimately interested in seeing if he stands fast in this position or if he jumps in lock and step with the Q15 and fully support the next wave of lock downs. Will he become a rogue messenger of truth, or will he fall in line with his superiors again?

Do the right thing, Dave. We're actually rooting for you.

[FrankOne]

BTW Capt Moroni killed many of his own men in battle to save others. It is how life works. so to some, loosing a few to vax to save many more is acceptable! I'm not saying it is right, I am saying what the majority believed and still believe, and showing it has precedence in god's ways as well.

Note to self never go on a church campout with Duke without a good pair of running shoes.

hahah. thanks for the laugh. seriously, I needed it.

the old "sacrifice of the few, to save the many". Or pre-emptive murder as I would call it. I am guessing that RMN and others see it this way. This is the darkest teaching of all because it always comes from the most ostensibly "righteous" that practice it.

duke, try reading a few thousand of the VAERS case reports or the reports from the UK health dept on how those vaxksed faired worse when contracting covid than the non-vaksed. Especially those over 50.

the teaching that the vaks saved people is of the devil himself. Whatever 'God' promotes this concept is not relative to Jesus the Christ.