The Prophet WHO TEACHETH LIES

[Robin Hood]

as I've already said and explained - They are not actual prophets.
True prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)
And sorry but I'm not going to waste my time anymore going over and over explaining the same thing -
which has been my past experiences with you - only to get nowhere.
So I will just copy and paste what I've already said, so others can read it.


true and also true.



RMN is NOT a actual prophet -
so this is false - because it's talking about the Lord's end-time people (the LDS church )
and about RMN and other leaders of the LDS church that came before him, so-called prophets
who teach lies and who call themselves prophets and who the Lord's end -time people
accept as their prophet - RMN; but by all definition - is definitely not a prophet.

And also false, because, as we know, actual prophets - do not teach lies.
So what you said -and what the scripture seems to say -
DOES sound just a little bit contradictive, but it's really not.



The scriptures are given by the spirit
and neither does the HG call a prophet who teaches lies. - a prophet.
So if the scripture says " the prophets who teach falsehoods" - obviously, they are not actual prophets,
but only called prophets - simply because they are the leaders of the Lord's end - time people
(the LDS church) and put in that position and called THE prophet by it's members.



Gileadi
Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12).
Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people
are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

So, a question.
Do you accept every detail of the creation story, as taught by Moses in Genesis, as well as the Garden of Eden drama, as entirely true?

yes,
and as being Gods plan.

Glad to hear it.
So... a talking snake?

[Being There]

So, a question.
Do you accept every detail of the creation story, as taught by Moses in Genesis, as well as the Garden of Eden drama, as entirely true?

yes,
and as being Gods plan.

Glad to hear it.
So... a talking snake?

the Garden of Eden drama, is all symbolic.

[Robin Hood]

yes,
and as being Gods plan.

Glad to hear it.
So... a talking snake?

the Garden of Eden drama, is all symbolic.

Really?
So Moses is a prophet who teacheth lies?
Does that mean he isn't really a prophet, just referred to as one?

[Shawn Henry]

The scriptures are given by the spirit
and neither does the HG call a prophet who teaches lies. - a prophet.
So if the scripture says " the prophets who teach falsehoods" - obviously, they are not actual prophets,
but only called prophets - simply because they are the leaders of the Lord's end - time people
(the LDS church) and put in that position and called THE prophet by it's members.

I completely disagree. The scriptures do not misspeak despite what you think may be obvious. A prophet who teaches lies means he was an actual prophet, but then started teaching lies. We have the perfect example of this in JS. He started out as an actual prophet and did just as God commanded him, but then he yielded to the persuasions of men and started teaching lies, and so did Sidney and Hyrum. One first has to be an actual prophet, as these 3 were.

[Shawn Henry]

Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.

By the way, the 3 above individuals were cut off in a single day.

[Being There]

Glad to hear it.
So... a talking snake?

the Garden of Eden drama, is all symbolic.

Really?
So Moses is a prophet who teacheth lies?
Does that mean he isn't really a prophet, just referred to as one?

So how does Moses teach lies?
He doesn't teach lies at all.
Your logic and comparison using Moses - only to prove your false understanding - to be right
about a false prophet - RMN, is really lame.

[Being There]

The scriptures are given by the spirit
and neither does the HG call a prophet who teaches lies. - a prophet.
So if the scripture says " the prophets who teach falsehoods" - obviously, they are not actual prophets,
but only called prophets - simply because they are the leaders of the Lord's end - time people
(the LDS church) and put in that position and called THE prophet by it's members.

I completely disagree. The scriptures do not misspeak despite what you think may be obvious. A prophet who teaches lies means he was an actual prophet, but then started teaching lies. We have the perfect example of this in JS. He started out as an actual prophet and did just as God commanded him, but then he yielded to the persuasions of men and started teaching lies, and so did Sidney and Hyrum. One first has to be an actual prophet, as these 3 were.

A prophet who teaches lies means he was an actual prophet, but then started teaching lies

huh - that's ridiculous.
and I completely disagree - as usual,
because this Isaiah scripture is about and fits RMN, *
next verse
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.
* and other leaders before him (so-called prophets) of the LDS church -
who have NEVER been actual prophets - in any capacity or in any way; with the exception of JS.

So according to you - RMN was once a actual prophet -
but then started teaching lies. ? lol.
If that's really what you think, then I think you have been deceived
and your logic and understanding of this scripture is way off. ***
(Nelson was NEVER a prophet, nor ever will be)
*** just like with JS - who you right now say he "started teaching lies", (which is true)
but you believe that somehow he will come back alive again
to fulfill the mission of the Lord's end-time servant.
This is completely wrong, but that's for another discussion.

[Being There]

Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.

By the way, the 3 above individuals were cut off in a single day.

right.
so now you're trying to say, that Joseph, Sidney and Hyrum,
are the 3 individuals that were cut off in a single day ? lol.
You really do have a great imagination don't you.
Sorry but this scripture is not referring to them.
And as Gileadi put it, they are cut off from his presence -
when Jehovah's " Day of Judgment" comes upon them ***
(which is future - when The Times of the Gentiles ends)

Gileadi
Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times,
the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another.
Because of their wickedness,
***Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19).

[Robin Hood]

the Garden of Eden drama, is all symbolic.

Really?
So Moses is a prophet who teacheth lies?
Does that mean he isn't really a prophet, just referred to as one?

So how does Moses teach lies?
He doesn't teach lies at all.
Your logic and comparison using Moses - only to prove your false understanding - to be right
about a false prophet - RMN, is really lame.

I think you have either missed the point or are being deliberately dense.
You claim the GofE was a symbolic story. If you're right, then Moses taught something that wasn't true, because he taught it as fact. That means he cannot have been a true prophet according to your definition, because clearly your perception appears to be that a prophet is infallible, and cannot lie. But the scriptures teach that it's only God who can't lie.
Are you honestly trying to say that RMN has not told or taught a lie since he became church president?

It seems that I'm prepared to cut him a bit more slack than you.

[TheDuke]

I think Reluctant and others are perhaps frustrated because the explanation of lies coming from somewhere else but yet finding utterance out of the mouth an authority figure even the very one that speaks for the entire church is disconcerting to say the least and should in no way be excused by usual plausible deniablity as people died.

I myself believe these deaths were grave injustices if they originated for no other reason than people placing trust in the words of one who speaks for God and having their fates ultimately decided by faulty public opinion which they may not have followed otherwise had it not been said by a prophet.

BTW Capt Moroni killed many of his own men in battle to save others. It is how life works.

It's how life works for the insane.

edit to explain:

the killing of some of the 'good guys' by other 'good guys' to save more 'good guys' is a LACK OF FAITH that God will actually help you so that 'good guys' don't have to be murdered to preserve others.

actually never seen that in any scripture. Not in BoM where many, many died under god's direction, I mean the good guys BTW. Same with Israel including Moses. Even Enoch lost many before becoming perfected and given sealing power over the earth. Truth be told, in every clash with evil the odds of good dying is nearly as great as evil, or at best seems 2:1 and that is with god's help and prophets.

[Shawn Henry]

So according to you - RMN was once a actual prophet -
but then started teaching lies. ? lol.

You know dang well I never said that. That's your typical MO, you say people said things they didn't and then you tear down that strawman.

RMN never was a prophet and therefore that Isaiah passage does not fit him at all.

[Shawn Henry]

Sorry but this scripture is not referring to them.

Says you, but everyone here can see that they are at least a possible match because they were indeed cut off in one day. Joseph and Hyrum were killed in one day and Sidney was voted out in one day. Everyone can see for themselves.

[Being There]

Really?
So Moses is a prophet who teacheth lies?
Does that mean he isn't really a prophet, just referred to as one?

So how does Moses teach lies?
He doesn't teach lies at all.
Your logic and comparison using Moses - only to prove your false understanding - to be right
about a false prophet - RMN, is really lame.

I think you have either missed the point or are being deliberately dense.
You claim the GofE was a symbolic story. If you're right, then Moses taught something that wasn't true, because he taught it as fact. That means he cannot have been a true prophet according to your definition, because clearly your perception appears to be that a prophet is infallible, and cannot lie. But the scriptures teach that it's only God who can't lie.
Are you honestly trying to say that RMN has not told or taught a lie since he became church president?

It seems that I'm prepared to cut him a bit more slack than you.

true.
and for me, you are too confusing about what you want to believe in and compare things to,
and indirect with proving what this is all about - whether Nelson is a prophet or not.
So like I said - I'm not going to waste my time anymore going over and over explaining the same thing -
which has been my past experiences with you - only to get nowhere."
so good luck - with wanting to believe Nelson's a prophet or was a prophet;
because he's not - nor ever has been,
I think I'm through here.

[Being There]

So according to you - RMN was once a actual prophet -
but then started teaching lies. ? lol.

You know dang well I never said that. That's your typical MO, you say people said things they didn't and then you tear down that strawman.

RMN never was a prophet and therefore that Isaiah passage does not fit him at all.

true, RMN never was a prophet.
The problem with your reasoning - is that the scripture IS about him, and our church leaders at this time -
just like the next verse -
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.
this is just one of the perfect examples of how RMN has misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

Nelsons example to members - who he has misled and are confused.

Russell M. Nelson
@NelsonRussellM
Wendy and I were vaccinated today against COVID-19. We are thankful for the countless individuals who performed the work required to make this possible.
We have prayed for this literal godsend.
Receiving the vaccine is part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens.

[Shawn Henry]

The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.
this is just one of the perfect examples of how RMN has misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

"Have mislead them", past tense. The leadership of this church has always been present tense, they're still leading them. The church was in complete apostacy by the time RMN took over. He is just another non-prophetic leader among many Christian churches.

Why even mention what RMN has done when he pales in comparison to where the Nauvoo leaders took the saints. All apostate doctrines were established by the time of Nauvoo. That's where the misleading happened and that's where the cutting off in a day happened.

Current leaders didn't do the misleading, they are simply making sure we stay in it.

By the way, you are allowed to think independently of Gileadi, especially considering the scriptures warn us away from the teachings of men.

[FrankOne]

good point. I can accept that the teachings are lies. I just don't see any evidence that their intent was to deceive.

I think Reluctant and others are perhaps frustrated because the explanation of lies coming from somewhere else but yet finding utterance out of the mouth an authority figure even the very one that speaks for the entire church is disconcerting to say the least and should in no way be excused by usual plausible deniablity as people died.

I myself believe these deaths were grave injustices if they originated for no other reason than people placing trust in the words of one who speaks for God and having their fates ultimately decided by faulty public opinion which they may not have followed otherwise had it not been said by a prophet.

BTW Capt Moroni killed many of his own men in battle to save others. It is how life works.

responses that don't treat the last post is getting a bit tedious.

so here goes again: See the specific line that I left of your quote.

Any leader that kills his own men in battle to save the majority is insane. <That is where I stand. I don't care which God you quote or how many scriptures agree with you, it's sick and twisted.

[TheDuke]

I think Reluctant and others are perhaps frustrated because the explanation of lies coming from somewhere else but yet finding utterance out of the mouth an authority figure even the very one that speaks for the entire church is disconcerting to say the least and should in no way be excused by usual plausible deniablity as people died.

I myself believe these deaths were grave injustices if they originated for no other reason than people placing trust in the words of one who speaks for God and having their fates ultimately decided by faulty public opinion which they may not have followed otherwise had it not been said by a prophet.

BTW Capt Moroni killed many of his own men in battle to save others. It is how life works.

responses that don't treat the last post is getting a bit tedious.

so here goes again: See the specific line that I left of your quote.

Any leader that kills his own men in battle to save the majority is insane. <That is where I stand. I don't care which God you quote or how many scriptures agree with you, it's sick and twisted.

guess you have no military experience and you feel Capt Moroni, Moses, Joshua, every BoM leader, including Nephi to traded off Laban's life for some golden plates, Enoch and his Zion, David, Samuel, 2000 warriors, on and on and on are "insane" "sick" and "twisted". Every military battle ever fought was a trade off. The difference between the good and the bad is the good would only fight for freedom, not power or money or greed. but all battles for freedom are a trade.

I would guess you're only hope of peace on this earth would have been to vote for Lucifer's plan then, Jesus' plan requires sacrifice as part of freedom. Just glad you're not the one leading our cause of freedom, but being an ANL is considered a good thing by some. BTW had it not been for the others fighting the entire ANL nation would have been killed, but hey.

[Good & Global]

So according to you - RMN was once a actual prophet -
but then started teaching lies. ? lol.

You know dang well I never said that. That's your typical MO, you say people said things they didn't and then you tear down that strawman.

RMN never was a prophet and therefore that Isaiah passage does not fit him at all.

true, RMN never was a prophet.
The problem with your reasoning - is that the scripture IS about him, and our church leaders at this time -
just like the next verse -
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.
this is just one of the perfect examples of how RMN has misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

Nelsons example to members - who he has misled and are confused.

Russell M. Nelson
@NelsonRussellM
Wendy and I were vaccinated today against COVID-19. We are thankful for the countless individuals who performed the work required to make this possible.
We have prayed for this literal godsend.
Receiving the vaccine is part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens.

Makes me throw up every time I see it or hear it. If I ever have any inkling that the Brethren may be inspired or be creative on their own, I just need to look at this to know they just copy the messages of others and usually the messages of those with personal benefit to them.

[TheDuke]

Makes me throw up every time I see it or hear it. If I ever have any inkling that the Brethren may be inspired or be creative on their own, I just need to look at this to know they just copy the messages of others and usually the messages of those with personal benefit to them.

ok what was "the personal benefit to them"? You made the claim while vomiting on the keyboard I assume as the image was in the post. Name the personal benefits. And have some evidence that is what they were after, not just some random list of pet peeves, seen that one before. Actual benefits.

I don't see any from COVID practices or Vax considerations. Lets see less missionaries, more inactives, less tithing. Looking for the upside. Same BTW for most corporations that went along with the government(s). Not seeing any upsides except for pharma, even other medical was hurt badly.

[Good & Global]

guess you have no military experience and you feel Capt Moroni, Moses, Joshua, every BoM leader, including Nephi to traded off Laban's life for some golden plates, Enoch and his Zion, David, Samuel, 2000 warriors, on and on and on are "insane" "sick" and "twisted". Every military battle ever fought was a trade off. The difference between the good and the bad is the good would only fight for freedom, not power or money or greed. but all battles for freedom are a trade.

I would guess you're only hope of peace on this earth would have been to vote for Lucifer's plan then, Jesus' plan requires sacrifice as part of freedom. Just glad you're not the one leading our cause of freedom, but being an ANL is considered a good thing by some. BTW had it not been for the others fighting the entire ANL nation would have been killed, but hey.

Wait a moment Laban was killed for no good reason.

Aside from the possibility that he was a blood relative to Nephi and that is how he had Lehi's geneaology, Laban did not need to die based on what we know now of the translation of the Book of Mormon (See Gospel Topic Essays) Joseph Smith never even really had need of the actual plates as he translated the book with a rock (he found while treasure digging) in the hat method.

See RMN demonstrates


The letters lit up in hat and appeared in english. The point is Laban didn't need to die as the plates weren't needed. Otherwise if they were needed there was a real problem with Joseph Smith receiving the Book of Abraham (see also Gospel Topic Essays) as the funerary texts were not the writings of Abraham.

[Shawn Henry]

The point is Laban didn't need to die as the plates weren't needed. Otherwise if they were needed there was a real problem with Joseph Smith receiving the Book of Abraham (see also Gospel Topic Essays) as the funerary texts were not the writings of Abraham.

There is a real problem with the Book of Abraham. It's not endorsed by God; there are not 3 witnesses for it, nor did JS claim it complete.

Also, Laban needed to die so that the Nephites could live. The Nephites needed the Brass Plates, which are not the Book of Mormon plates.

Joseph didn't actual need Mormon's abridgement, but again the people did. The 1830 saints needed to know that the work was legit, that's why the plates came with 8 witnesses. For us, not for Joseph.

[CMajor]

RMN's example of wearing a black mask (white would have been more appropriate) but the black mask was sending a message too?
While doing a photo opportunity receiving the Vax, it also sent a BIG message to those who follow the President of the Church. A picture is equal to a thousand words. The intentional wearing of a Black mask could represent death... similar to his piano solo during his birthday bash, it was dark and foreboding. Prelude in C minor. (Chopin's funeral march) You might make the case he was prophesying as a Prophet would about the future death's as a result of taking the VAX. And was indeed a Prophet using picture symbolism.

I'm waiting for the time when the Lord will send one mighty and strong. (D&C 85:7) Because "while that man, who was called of God and appointed," Appointed because he was next in seniority, not someone who gets a personal visit from Jesus Christ like Joseph Smith did.
Anyway the appointed man likes to put his hand out to steady the ark of God by making all un-necessary changes to every facet of the Church to fool people into believing he is truly inspired. (D&C 85:8)

It's ridiculous to believe that God sanctioned all these changes because he, God, changed his mind. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, while man on the other hand...well I guess if the man thinks he's the new inspired King, he can just let loose with unbridled passion change after change.

...shall fall by the shaft of death, like a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning." Use your imagination on this one. (falling through a trap door?) lightning quick

[Being There]

The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.
this is just one of the perfect examples of how RMN has misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

"Have mislead them", past tense. The leadership of this church has always been present tense, they're still leading them. The church was in complete apostacy by the time RMN took over. He is just another non-prophetic leader among many Christian churches.

Why even mention what RMN has done when he pales in comparison to where the Nauvoo leaders took the saints. All apostate doctrines were established by the time of Nauvoo. That's where the misleading happened and that's where the cutting off in a day happened.

Current leaders didn't do the misleading, they are simply making sure we stay in it.

By the way, you are allowed to think independently of Gileadi, especially considering the scriptures warn us away from the teachings of men.

sorry but you're completely wrong - again,
about where the scripture says -
"The leaders of these people have misled them", (which happened - big time - with RMN's "godsend"
viewtopic.php?p=1413871#p1413871
so at least you got part of it right - "Have misled them", IS past tense,
and like you say -
"Why even mention where the Nauvoo leaders took the saints
when they pale in comparison to what RMN has done - misled thousands -
and even killed some of the members with his "godsend".
And the cutting off in a day - (which of course is future - The Day of the Lord's Judgement -)
But I've already explained that - so I won't bother to waste my time and go over it again and again,
but thank you for basically repeating and agreeing with what I've already said to you -
about it being - not just RMN, but as I said - (to repeat myself) -
"it's talking about the Lord's end-time people (the LDS church )
and about RMN and other leaders of the LDS church that came before him, so-called prophets
who teach lies and who call themselves prophets and who the Lord's end -time people
accept as their prophet - RMN; but by all definition - is definitely not a prophet."

and BTW - I'm sorry that Gileadi's teachings seem to threaten you - because they're true.

[Robin Hood]

The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.
this is just one of the perfect examples of how RMN has misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

"Have mislead them", past tense. The leadership of this church has always been present tense, they're still leading them. The church was in complete apostacy by the time RMN took over. He is just another non-prophetic leader among many Christian churches.

Why even mention what RMN has done when he pales in comparison to where the Nauvoo leaders took the saints. All apostate doctrines were established by the time of Nauvoo. That's where the misleading happened and that's where the cutting off in a day happened.

Current leaders didn't do the misleading, they are simply making sure we stay in it.

By the way, you are allowed to think independently of Gileadi, especially considering the scriptures warn us away from the teachings of men.

When Christ was with the Nephites he instructed them (and us) to study the words of Isaiah, because they had application in his day and in the latter days. So the tense thing isn't really a thing.
And I agree, although the scripture applies to RMN, it isn't just him. After all, it says "leaders"... plural.

[Being There]

Russell M. Nelson
@NelsonRussellM
"Wendy and I were vaccinated today against COVID-19. We are thankful for the countless individuals who performed the work required to make this possible.
We have prayed for this literal godsend.
Receiving the vaccine is part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens."

Great input. Thanks for making my point. I appreciate your pulling this forward. It clearly shows that RMN felt very deeply that the Vax was a very good thing. The word "godsend" is not any more than a "good thing", literal or not. BUT if you take it in the wrong terminology like you are trying then it proves my point. He might have been deceived but not LYING! And I never said he wasn't deceived or confused or mistaken.

Thanks for your support, much appreciated

no thank you for making mine - my point.
It clearly shows that RMN is a false prophet.

When a so-called prophet says - and members - like YOU - who accept him as a prophet,
and your prophet - when you hear him say - "We have prayed for this literal godsend."
it can really only mean one thing.
Like 4Joshua8 commented -
"That they mentioned they prayed for the godsend indicates that they believe it coming forth was an answer to their prayer. Therefore, they believe their faith and prayers are responsible for the godsend."

Real prophets are not deceived.
When real prophets pray and receive revelation - an answer from God, and call it a "literal godsend",
it doesn't turn out to be false and the wrong answer.
It proves that your prophet RMN is really a false prophet.

So thank you for your transparency - showing everyone - that you believe in a false prophet.

not to even mention what it means to be a "be good global citizens."
We have prayed for this literal godsend.
Receiving the vaccine is part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens."

as I've said before -
No prophet of God could ever be a Good Global Citizen
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 7#p1144967


Nelson, is under the delusion, that he's led by God;
just like this "Godsend".
godsend" - so ridiculous to say such a thing, That alone shows Nelson's a false prophet.

The church is led by a false prophet -
leading thousands of members away from the Lord;
and many, even to their death.

His example alone - asking his followers to be "GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
and follow him and join with those World leaders - who he follows - and who serve satan -
speaks for itself.

"WE HAVE PRAYED FOR THIS LITERAL GODSEND.
RECEIVING THE VACCINE IS PART OF OUR PERSONAL EFFORTS TO BE
GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
RMN



as far as Nelson - and who he thinks he is - "pride cometh before the fall"


The church is in total apostasy.

and if you had ever questioned if Nelson was a false prophet, and whether or not
the church had gone astray,
I think that question has been answered for you.

""ONE GREAT GLOBAL FAMILY"
Pres. Nelson
(sounds more like what satan (the god of this world) would say)