The Prophet WHO TEACHETH LIES

[blitzinstripes]

Recently, I find myself feeling sorry for the Q15. I see a bunch of tired old men that have been exposed. Naked emperors with no new clothes. I'll stop somewhere short of calling them disciple of Satan, but certainly posers. If ANYONE knows they are false prophets, it's themselves. They know darn well that they haven't had a single true and genuine revelation between the bunch of them. Is RMN the President? Sure. In the corporate sense. I wonder when he lays down at night, does he wonder how he got COVID so wrong? Does he wonder why there is silence in the heavens? Why the Spirit of the Lord no longer guides the church?

When true servants appear, will they acknowledge their own inadequacy and unworthiness? Will they support the servants, or kick against the pricks?

[Hiker]

Recently, I find myself feeling sorry for the Q15. I see a bunch of tired old men that have been exposed. Naked emperors with no new clothes. I'll stop somewhere short of calling them disciple of Satan, but certainly posers. If ANYONE knows they are false prophets, it's themselves. They know darn well that they haven't had a single true and genuine revelation between the bunch of them. Is RMN the President? Sure. In the corporate sense. I wonder when he lays down at night, does he wonder how he got COVID so wrong? Does he wonder why there is silence in the heavens? Why the Spirit of the Lord no longer guides the church?

When true servants appear, will they acknowledge their own inadequacy and unworthiness? Will they support the servants, or kick against the pricks?

Amen!

[Atrasado]

thinking about my last post that was in Response to Duke's, I've realized that semantics become a problem when some try to nail down a word in order to avoid confronting the problem.

example: " The prophet who teacheth lies." Answer from some: "they aren't lying and you can't prove they are":

change for no wiggle room:

"The Prophet who teaches dangerous falsehoods and evil precepts that harm and endanger his own congregation"
. .. No wiggle room there.

from what Duke has said, I think he'll agree with this one

It doesn't matter if they are knowingly lying. Teaching a lie doesn't require intentionally lying. It just requires that what they say or teach is a lie. And there's so much of that, it's astounding.

[silverado]

Recently, I find myself feeling sorry for the Q15. I see a bunch of tired old men that have been exposed. Naked emperors with no new clothes. I'll stop somewhere short of calling them disciple of Satan, but certainly posers. If ANYONE knows they are false prophets, it's themselves. They know darn well that they haven't had a single true and genuine revelation between the bunch of them. Is RMN the President? Sure. In the corporate sense. I wonder when he lays down at night, does he wonder how he got COVID so wrong? Does he wonder why there is silence in the heavens? Why the Spirit of the Lord no longer guides the church?

When true servants appear, will they acknowledge their own inadequacy and unworthiness? Will they support the servants, or kick against the pricks?

Silence in the heavens? Maybe we are in the half hour of silence?

[InfoWarrior82]

There is more than one reason why a priesthood leader is unable to manifest the power and authority of God. Not just a priesthood leader, the same Son of God Himself, whom the Priesthood belongs to to begin with (remember what the name of the Melchizedek Priesthood was called before it was called that!)

Number one: The Priesthood holder is not worthy though he possess the keys. He has been committing sins and breaking his covenants he made with the Lord.

Number two: The Priesthood holder claims authority which is not his to begin with (priestcraft), exercising unrighteous dominion in that office. This is also a case where the priesthood holder is not worthy.

Number three: This one in this day and age is more common than people think. The Priesthood Holder, otherwise being worthy to exercise his power, does not know that he can exercise specific powers because he is unaware of their existence. This one is solvable, one only need to read the Scriptures to find out just what those powers are, and to understand them.

Number four: The priesthood holder is worthy but the local people being unworthy are undeserving of the priesthood holder. This is when the Lord tells the prophets to shut their mouth. This is when the miracles and powers are taken away from among the people. This happens due to a dearth of faith amongst those who are looking for miracles as well as grievously sinful behavior in which they willfully rebel against the Lord. What follows is a cursing for those people.

In today's Church we have a combination of these four issues today. When we do not really investigate the Scriptures and follow them we become cursed as a people. When we accept as doctrine the commandments of men, we become cursed. Others are ignorant of their true power they have in the Priesthood. Leaders, general and local, have miffed on their responsibilities. A few have become outrageously sinful. Others claim an authority which is only the Lord's to give, and take the Lord's name in vain when they do so...

I could be very well missing on other issues...if there are more, please feel free to add on to this list I have begun.

Citation needed.

Case one would be Corianton when he went awhoring rather than simply charlie miking. There are other examples; this is the first one that pops up.

Case two would be any Church leader today that finds himself offending the Lord, using his authority to preach doctrine that has nothing to do with what the Scriptures say. There are bunches of them; some find themselves amongst what are called the red seat crew on this forum.

Case three: Doctrine and Covenants 13 and 84 talk much about the oath and covenant of the Priesthood and 123:12 speaks about the ignorant that do not know where to find the truth. There are quite a few in the Church today that need help finding these things. Ask an Aaronic Priesthood holder in your local ward or branch if they know that they have the power of the ministering of angels and how can that power be obtained.

Case four: It is shown in the Book of Mormon and the New Testament that Christ performed miracles to the faithful, and that he did not do so many miracles in Capernaum because those people were stiffnecked. Heck, even in his own city of Nazareth he didn't perform any miracles, at least, none documented in the four Gospels.

To everyone else: There are more than likely other cases which I have not mentioned. If you find them feel free to add them, and also add a citation or reference per InfoWarrior's request.

Your Case 1 example I agree with. Yes! This would be an example. (Among many others).

Case 2 --- disqualified because I was asking for those who DO have the priesthood keys conferred upon them.

Your Case 3 citations:

123:12
12 For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it.

I don't think it's saying what you think it's saying. This is for non members.



D&C 13 does not speak of ignorance being any factor.

D&C 84 does not speak of ignorance being any factor.



Your Case 4 would be correct if the Lord actually TOOK AWAY real prophets. HIS prophets. Maybe He has?


20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.

21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his danger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.

25 Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also;

26 And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;



So, if the Lord took away His true prophets... who are these men then? Pretenders.


37 Behold, I, the Lord, have made my church in these last days like unto a judge sitting on a hill, or in a high place, to judge the nations.

38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.

39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not apostles and prophets shall be known.





I think the Lord gave us a key. We are like unto the Children of Israel wandering in the wilderness after being smitten by our own wickedness, ungodliness, and disobedience to His commandments. Kicked out of the place of our inheritance. The Promised Land of Zion.

[Good & Global]

Silence in the heavens? Maybe we are in the half hour of silence?

Either that or a prophetic time out.

Mormon is a victory for Satan campaign is already not aging well.

[FrankOne]

Silence in the heavens? Maybe we are in the half hour of silence?

Either that or a prophetic time out.

Mormon is a victory for Satan campaign is already not aging well.

My assessment that I'm sensing is that this 1/2 hour just might be now....for all of us. Getting inspiration seems to take much more work, or...maybe it's just me.

I'm guessing that an outpouring is coming, but I have no idea as to the when. To be safe, I'd say between 1 and a 100 yrs.

[abijah]

Ranks #21 on Amazon in Controversial Religious Knowledge

interesting, i didn't know they had lists like these. i wonder how they determine the ranking.

[TheDuke]

BTW Capt Moroni killed many of his own men in battle to save others. It is how life works. so to some, loosing a few to vax to save many more is acceptable! I'm not saying it is right, I am saying what the majority believed and still believe, and showing it has precedence in god's ways as well.

Note to self never go on a church campout with Duke without a good pair of running shoes.

hahah. thanks for the laugh. seriously, I needed it.

the old "sacrifice of the few, to save the many". Or pre-emptive murder as I would call it. I am guessing that RMN and others see it this way. This is the darkest teaching of all because it always comes from the most ostensibly "righteous" that practice it.

duke, try reading a few thousand of the VAERS case reports or the reports from the UK health dept on how those vaxksed faired worse when contracting covid than the non-vaksed. Especially those over 50.

the teaching that the vaks saved people is of the devil himself. Whatever 'God' promotes this concept is not relative to Jesus the Christ.

Again you're taking my comments out of context. I never made a judgement on value of Covid vaxes, outside of I feel they are bad. What I am saying is that there are many things where the few are hurt or injured for the good of the masses. All laws are that way. I cannot leave a gun around my home because some parents don't teach their kids to keep their damned hands off them or their kids are stupid or something, so we get a law. It may be for the good for sure but does take away rights of the majority. Same thing I discussed with my son about auto insurance. We need it because of the many uninsured and deadbeats that would hurt so many w/o it. So we ALL pay through the nose, especially where I live as they give drivers licenses to anyone one legal, illegal, competent or not. We have military to sacrifice the few for our freedom, have done so since George Washington, even occasional drafts. We do many things this way, and so does god's justice on the earth from the ancient HPs to Capt Moroni, to King David, and on.

On all these things you must weigh individual costs/benefits from societal. My point is that naming one or two people out of 8.5B is statistically irrelevant. Period. I have heard the claim that RMN murdered people by recommending the vax.... I don't accept it, even though I'm anti-Covid vax. But more over there are no statistics that support it yet and it isn't murder. but feel free pretend to be an ANL while those following Capt Moroni purchase your freedom with their blood!

[FrankOne]

good point. I can accept that the teachings are lies. I just don't see any evidence that their intent was to deceive.

I think Reluctant and others are perhaps frustrated because the explanation of lies coming from somewhere else but yet finding utterance out of the mouth an authority figure even the very one that speaks for the entire church is disconcerting to say the least and should in no way be excused by usual plausible deniablity as people died.

I myself believe these deaths were grave injustices if they originated for no other reason than people placing trust in the words of one who speaks for God and having their fates ultimately decided by faulty public opinion which they may not have followed otherwise had it not been said by a prophet.

BTW Capt Moroni killed many of his own men in battle to save others. It is how life works.

It's how life works for the insane.

edit to explain:

the killing of some of the 'good guys' by other 'good guys' to save more 'good guys' is a LACK OF FAITH that God will actually help you so that 'good guys' don't have to be murdered to preserve others.

[FrankOne]

When true servants appear, will they acknowledge their own inadequacy and unworthiness?

Would they ever admit that they were wrong about the vakkks? I honestly can't judge this, but I seriously can't see it happening , barring Michael's appearance in one of their private meetings brandishing a flaming sword.

It appears that we've got a ways to go and that Michael et al have more patience than I expected. The plan is very obscure to me. Sure, things will eventually be set straight, but the how and when are complete mysteries.

there seems to be a pause.

archangel michael.jpg (82.75 KiB) Viewed 195 times

[Being There]

Isaiah 9:13-16, Jeremiah 23

RMN does teach lies, but he is not a prophet. The above scriptures are about an actual prophet who teaches lies.

The scriptures are given by the spirit and the HG doesn't call false prophets prophets, it calls them false prophets.

RMN does teach lies, but he is not a prophet

true and also true.

The above scriptures are about an actual prophet who teaches lies.

RMN is NOT a actual prophet -
so this is false - because it's talking about the Lord's end-time people (the LDS church )
and about RMN and other leaders of the LDS church that came before him, so-called prophets
who teach lies and who call themselves prophets and who the Lord's end -time people
accept as their prophet - RMN; but by all definition - is definitely not a prophet.

And also false, because, as we know, actual prophets - do not teach lies.
So what you said -and what the scripture seems to say -
DOES sound just a little bit contradictive, but it's really not.

The scriptures are given by the spirit and the HG doesn't call false prophets prophets, it calls them false prophets.

The scriptures are given by the spirit
and neither does the HG call a prophet who teaches lies. - a prophet.
So if the scripture says " the prophets who teach falsehoods" - obviously, they are not actual prophets,
but only called prophets - simply because they are the leaders of the Lord's end - time people
(the LDS church) and put in that position and called THE prophet by it's members.



Gileadi
Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12).
Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people
are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

[Being There]

Russell M. Nelson
@NelsonRussellM
"Wendy and I were vaccinated today against COVID-19. We are thankful for the countless individuals who performed the work required to make this possible.
We have prayed for this literal godsend.
Receiving the vaccine is part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens."

The Prophet WHO TEACHETH LIES

Oh - I forgot.
Nelson's not a prophet - but a false one,
so I guess he's excluded. So you can't blame him. lol.

The book makes that very point... only the other way round.
If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet... albeit not a very good one.

Reminds me of Paul Toscano's conversation with Elder Packer. He said in effect, speaking of the Q15, "It's not that I don't believe you are apostles, I believe you are. It just that you're the worst apostles the world has ever seen".

If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet.

not exactly - as per the comment I just made below to Shawn Henry

Legitimate prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)

[Chip]

thinking about my last post that was in Response to Duke's, I've realized that semantics become a problem when some try to nail down a word in order to avoid confronting the problem.

example: " The prophet who teacheth lies." Answer from some: "they aren't lying and you can't prove they are":

change for no wiggle room:

"The Prophet who teaches dangerous falsehoods and evil precepts that harm and endanger his own congregation"
. .. No wiggle room there.

from what Duke has said, I think he'll agree with this one

It doesn't matter if they are knowingly lying. Teaching a lie doesn't require intentionally lying. It just requires that what they say or teach is a lie. And there's so much of that, it's astounding.

Consider that they do discourage people from criticizing them, even in private conversation. They say that doing so will impede The Lord's work. One thing they'll never talk about is what the criticisms actually are, because that would only serve to validate people's suspicions. They have given themselves license to strictly control their narratives, members lives and health be damned. It's not the kind of stuff Christians are supposed to be doing. They operate deep in Pharisee territory and it creates an unhealthy environment. Beware the leavening of the Pharisees.

[Being There]

Again, I see the title in the OP as a LIE, right off the top. I have made it clear that my opinion of the Church's covid response seems non-revelatory. But, give me your evidence for your right to use the word "LIE" in the OP. What part of their decisions and statements is shown to be a LIE?

I mentioned that early on Eyring tipped me off when he said something like "he heard from expert sources" and then "around 70%" immune to form "herd immunity" and that "herd immunity would keep the church and in this case BYU-I open. I feel several things are very clear.

1) he did NOT claim revelation - so no lie there. 2) he claimed he heard from experts, which seem to be Drs, but all them were already dupped as well, and to be honest LDS Dr's aren't the hottest (not LDS members, I mean those serving the church for free or nearly, get what you pay for), then add the government ones, that until COVID did seem correct over most of US history. 3) he heard or learned that herd immunity would keep the church, etc.. open. well this is true honestly. That is where we are now - minus those that killed their immune systems -and he had access to the same lies and over-the-top impacts of COVID that every other leader in any organization had.

So, he was mistaken. He was lied to and accepted it (maybe still does). He listened to people like Dr RMN and Dr Renlund fawn over the other Dr's and swallowed it. To me it doesn't show inspiration of an apostle (but then again a true apostle has no medical business anyway and only has rights to testify of Christ as the redeemer). but never is there a point of LYING in it.

Search out all the words during the time of the Q15 and then show me a LIE! Just one. BTW good luck, been down this path before. None exist. Ok, not interested in 3rd party, i.e. LDS media, or LDS.org editor, or some GA, but Q15. And more precisely given the OP title RMN?

Waiting to read your list of quotes there my friend.

Again, I see the title in the OP as a LIE, right off the top. I have made it clear that my opinion of the Church's covid response seems non-revelatory. But, give me your evidence for your right to use the word "LIE" in the OP.
What part of their decisions and statements is shown to be a LIE?

Russell M. Nelson
@NelsonRussellM
"Wendy and I were vaccinated today against COVID-19. We are thankful for the countless individuals who performed the work required to make this possible.
We have prayed for this literal godsend.
Receiving the vaccine is part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens."

Great input. Thanks for making my point. I appreciate your pulling this forward. It clearly shows that RMN felt very deeply that the Vax was a very good thing. The word "godsend" is not any more than a "good thing", literal or not. BUT if you take it in the wrong terminology like you are trying then it proves my point. He might have been deceived but not LYING! And I never said he wasn't deceived or confused or mistaken.

Thanks for your support, much appreciated

no thank you for making mine - my point.
It clearly shows that RMN is a false prophet.

When a so-called prophet says - and members - like YOU - who accept him as a prophet,
and your prophet - when you hear him say - "We have prayed for this literal godsend."
it can really only mean one thing.
Like 4Joshua8 commented -
"That they mentioned they prayed for the godsend indicates that they believe it coming forth was an answer to their prayer. Therefore, they believe their faith and prayers are responsible for the godsend."

Real prophets are not deceived.
When real prophets pray and receive revelation - an answer from God, and call it a "literal godsend",
it doesn't turn out to be false and the wrong answer.
It proves that your prophet RMN is really a false prophet.

So thank you for your transparency - showing everyone - that you believe in a false prophet.

[Being There]

He is being sarcastic, not dumb.

You may have missed the context, but he is indirectly quoting me without quoting me in his passive-aggressive style. I would have much more respect for him if he simply said he disagreed with my interpretation of those scriptures with a reason stating why and his own interpretation.

I'm very sorry friend, but you have falsely accused me.
For some reason, you seem to think that my comments are really directed to you - when they are not.
And sorry but I hadn't read any comments of yours at all when I posted what I did
and you commented to me saying "That's a dumb thing to say".
I hadn't read your comment or any of the comments in the thread before my first comment to TheDuke.

[Robin Hood]

The Prophet WHO TEACHETH LIES

Oh - I forgot.
Nelson's not a prophet - but a false one,
so I guess he's excluded. So you can't blame him. lol.

The book makes that very point... only the other way round.
If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet... albeit not a very good one.

Reminds me of Paul Toscano's conversation with Elder Packer. He said in effect, speaking of the Q15, "It's not that I don't believe you are apostles, I believe you are. It just that you're the worst apostles the world has ever seen".

If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet.

not exactly - as per the comment I just made below to Shawn Henry

Legitimate prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)

At no point do either Isaiah or Jeremiah say they are false prophets. The whole point is that they're not. They actually are prophets, otherwise they wouldn't be described as such.

[Being There]

The book makes that very point... only the other way round.
If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet... albeit not a very good one.

Reminds me of Paul Toscano's conversation with Elder Packer. He said in effect, speaking of the Q15, "It's not that I don't believe you are apostles, I believe you are. It just that you're the worst apostles the world has ever seen".

If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet.

not exactly - as per the comment I just made below to Shawn Henry

Legitimate prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)

At no point do either Isaiah or Jeremiah say they are false prophets. The whole point is that they're not. They actually are prophets, otherwise they wouldn't be described as such.

as I've already said and explained - They are not actual prophets.
True prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)
And sorry but I'm not going to waste my time anymore going over and over explaining the same thing -
which has been my past experiences with you - only to get nowhere.
So I will just copy and paste what I've already said, so others can read it.

RMN does teach lies, but he is not a prophet

true and also true.

The above scriptures are about an actual prophet who teaches lies.

RMN is NOT a actual prophet -
so this is false - because it's talking about the Lord's end-time people (the LDS church )
and about RMN and other leaders of the LDS church that came before him, so-called prophets
who teach lies and who call themselves prophets and who the Lord's end -time people
accept as their prophet - RMN; but by all definition - is definitely not a prophet.

And also false, because, as we know, actual prophets - do not teach lies.
So what you said -and what the scripture seems to say -
DOES sound just a little bit contradictive, but it's really not.

The scriptures are given by the spirit and the HG doesn't call false prophets prophets, it calls them false prophets.

The scriptures are given by the spirit
and neither does the HG call a prophet who teaches lies. - a prophet.
So if the scripture says " the prophets who teach falsehoods" - obviously, they are not actual prophets,
but only called prophets - simply because they are the leaders of the Lord's end - time people
(the LDS church) and put in that position and called THE prophet by it's members.



Gileadi
Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12).
Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people
are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

[Robin Hood]

not exactly - as per the comment I just made below to Shawn Henry

Legitimate prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)

At no point do either Isaiah or Jeremiah say they are false prophets. The whole point is that they're not. They actually are prophets, otherwise they wouldn't be described as such.

as I've already said and explained - They are not actual prophets.
True prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)
And sorry but I'm not going to waste my time anymore going over and over explaining the same thing -
which has been my past experiences with you - only to get nowhere.
So I will just copy and paste what I've already said, so others can read it.

RMN does teach lies, but he is not a prophet

true and also true.

The above scriptures are about an actual prophet who teaches lies.

RMN is NOT a actual prophet -
so this is false - because it's talking about the Lord's end-time people (the LDS church )
and about RMN and other leaders of the LDS church that came before him, so-called prophets
who teach lies and who call themselves prophets and who the Lord's end -time people
accept as their prophet - RMN; but by all definition - is definitely not a prophet.

And also false, because, as we know, actual prophets - do not teach lies.
So what you said -and what the scripture seems to say -
DOES sound just a little bit contradictive, but it's really not.

The scriptures are given by the spirit and the HG doesn't call false prophets prophets, it calls them false prophets.

The scriptures are given by the spirit
and neither does the HG call a prophet who teaches lies. - a prophet.
So if the scripture says " the prophets who teach falsehoods" - obviously, they are not actual prophets,
but only called prophets - simply because they are the leaders of the Lord's end - time people
(the LDS church) and put in that position and called THE prophet by it's members.



Gileadi
Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12).
Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people
are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

So, a question.
Do you accept every detail of the creation story, as taught by Moses in Genesis, as well as the Garden of Eden drama, as entirely true?

[blitzinstripes]

Russell M. Nelson
@NelsonRussellM
"Wendy and I were vaccinated today against COVID-19. We are thankful for the countless individuals who performed the work required to make this possible.
We have prayed for this literal godsend.
Receiving the vaccine is part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens."

Great input. Thanks for making my point. I appreciate your pulling this forward. It clearly shows that RMN felt very deeply that the Vax was a very good thing. The word "godsend" is not any more than a "good thing", literal or not. BUT if you take it in the wrong terminology like you are trying then it proves my point. He might have been deceived but not LYING! And I never said he wasn't deceived or confused or mistaken.

Thanks for your support, much appreciated

no thank you for making mine - my point.
It clearly shows that RMN is a false prophet.

When a so-called prophet says - and members - like YOU - who accept him as a prophet,
and your prophet - when you hear him say - "We have prayed for this literal godsend."
it can really only mean one thing.
Like 4Joshua8 commented -
"That they mentioned they prayed for the godsend indicates that they believe it coming forth was an answer to their prayer. Therefore, they believe their faith and prayers are responsible for the godsend."

Real prophets are not deceived.
When real prophets pray and receive revelation - an answer from God, and call it a "literal godsend",
it doesn't turn out to be false and the wrong answer.
It proves that your prophet RMN is really a false prophet.

So thank you for your transparency - showing everyone - that you believe in a false prophet.

That's an astute observation, and it reminded me of the account of Aaron and the golden calf.

Exodus 32:23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.

The people asked for a god to worship, they believed, including Aaron, that the calf was a "godsend" because it appeared from the fire in response to their desires. How easily Satan can deceive by answering the desires of our hearts!

Reminded also of the scene from the temple movie when Satan appears to Adam who is praying out loud.....

Satan: "I hear you."

[ransomme]

The book makes that very point... only the other way round.
If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet... albeit not a very good one.

Reminds me of Paul Toscano's conversation with Elder Packer. He said in effect, speaking of the Q15, "It's not that I don't believe you are apostles, I believe you are. It just that you're the worst apostles the world has ever seen".

If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet.

not exactly - as per the comment I just made below to Shawn Henry

Legitimate prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)

At no point do either Isaiah or Jeremiah say they are false prophets. The whole point is that they're not. They actually are prophets, otherwise they wouldn't be described as such.

Well... It's more complicated than that don't you think?

Can you name any PSR moments or fruits? Then are they really? Really?

And I think when the time comes the new wine won't be put into old skins.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The book makes that very point... only the other way round.
If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet... albeit not a very good one.

Reminds me of Paul Toscano's conversation with Elder Packer. He said in effect, speaking of the Q15, "It's not that I don't believe you are apostles, I believe you are. It just that you're the worst apostles the world has ever seen".

If we are correct in attributing Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecy to RMN, we are also acknowledging that he is a legitimate prophet.

not exactly - as per the comment I just made below to Shawn Henry

Legitimate prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)

At no point do either Isaiah or Jeremiah say they are false prophets. The whole point is that they're not. They actually are prophets, otherwise they wouldn't be described as such.

I think we could argue that there are “Prophets” with actual gifts and fruits, and then there are “prophets” who hold roles as high priest of group of believers. I guess we’d have to dive into the Hebrew root meaning of the word prophet to understand who these OT writers were talking about.

If you look at their description of these so-called prophets, it doesn’t appear to me that the Lord even called them to such positions. They either took it upon themselves or received such title through tradition or a calling.

[Ymarsakar]

A prophet was simply what the hebrews called a seer that seemed to speak for a powerful god, holy one of israel and had some super power to back it up.

They sometimes saved like moses but usually other superpowers like aaron or the power of persuasion was seen instead. Aaron the son of alma that went to the lamanites, killed many people. The lamanites had notnseen such before but it was a sign of the great spirit. If enoigh of these people are seen and they all speak of one god, they start getting lumped in as a collective story by humans. Like lochness or ufo legends.

The ability to predict the future was rather commok back then. They had dream interpreters like daniel. A prophecy was ome grade higher than an oracle or seer. It was the ability to make a timelije happen. Manifestation not prediction. And these individuals were given a special title. Because humans fear the unknown. They want labels to make spirit into a ritual or religious box.

[InfoWarrior82]

not exactly - as per the comment I just made below to Shawn Henry

Legitimate prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)

At no point do either Isaiah or Jeremiah say they are false prophets. The whole point is that they're not. They actually are prophets, otherwise they wouldn't be described as such.

I think we could argue that there are “Prophets” with actual gifts and fruits, and then there are “prophets” who hold roles as high priest of group of believers. I guess we’d have to dive into the Hebrew root meaning of the word prophet to understand who these OT writers were talking about.

If you look at their description of these so-called prophets, it doesn’t appear to me that the Lord even called them to such positions. They either took it upon themselves or received such title through tradition or a calling.

THIS.

[Being There]

At no point do either Isaiah or Jeremiah say they are false prophets. The whole point is that they're not. They actually are prophets, otherwise they wouldn't be described as such.

as I've already said and explained - They are not actual prophets.
True prophets do not teach lies (falsehoods)
And sorry but I'm not going to waste my time anymore going over and over explaining the same thing -
which has been my past experiences with you - only to get nowhere.
So I will just copy and paste what I've already said, so others can read it.

RMN does teach lies, but he is not a prophet

true and also true.

The above scriptures are about an actual prophet who teaches lies.

RMN is NOT a actual prophet -
so this is false - because it's talking about the Lord's end-time people (the LDS church )
and about RMN and other leaders of the LDS church that came before him, so-called prophets
who teach lies and who call themselves prophets and who the Lord's end -time people
accept as their prophet - RMN; but by all definition - is definitely not a prophet.

And also false, because, as we know, actual prophets - do not teach lies.
So what you said -and what the scripture seems to say -
DOES sound just a little bit contradictive, but it's really not.

The scriptures are given by the spirit and the HG doesn't call false prophets prophets, it calls them false prophets.

The scriptures are given by the spirit
and neither does the HG call a prophet who teaches lies. - a prophet.
So if the scripture says " the prophets who teach falsehoods" - obviously, they are not actual prophets,
but only called prophets - simply because they are the leaders of the Lord's end - time people
(the LDS church) and put in that position and called THE prophet by it's members.



Gileadi
Isaiah 9
14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head, the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12).
Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people
are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

So, a question.
Do you accept every detail of the creation story, as taught by Moses in Genesis, as well as the Garden of Eden drama, as entirely true?

yes,
and as being Gods plan.