The Prophet WHO TEACHETH LIES

[CMajor]

(See Isaiah 9:13-16, Jeremiah 23)
Ranks #21 on Amazon in Controversial Religious Knowledge

During COVID-19, many members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints were shocked to have their church leaders encouraging them to take the COVID-19 vaccine. Some questioned the faith of those who would not take the vaccine; others accused any who spoke against the vaccine of promoting apostasy. Some questioned their own faith when confronted with their prophet promoting what they saw as a lie. Still others took the vaccine even against their better judgement, believing God would not hold them responsible for the damage it caused if they followed the Prophet's counsel.

Avoiding the vaccine was not only the right and privilege of every member, but standing for truth is precisely what the Lord has called those loyal to Him to do, both in and outside the Church. The Book of Mormon records that the more part of the righteous was seduced to believe in the works of the Gadianton Robbers and thus partook in their spoils. This book documents how that same process occurred during the COVID-19 pandemic. It also witnesses that none need question their faith in God, the Book of Mormon, the purposes of the Lord and stand for truth at all times and all places.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CB4W3LD8/re ... c51676f790

[CMajor]

I am not the author of this book, but I know the author and he does not live in Utah.

[Libertas Est Salus]

I read the book when someone posted about it last week (I believe it was). I really enjoyed reading it

[Robin Hood]

I have read this book.
It starts off very well and deals with the subject matter of the book title quite well. After that it tended to wander off and waffle a fair bit, became a bit scatter gun-ish, and then just petered out. It's not a long read, but could have done with being shorter.
That said, the relevant content is very good and well written. The logical non emotional approach was excellent and really appealed to me. There are copious footnotes with links to various websites and so forth.
The author hinted that he will be writing another book. I will buy that too.

[Good & Global]

Example from the past. After 911 we had a discussion (many actually) in our Ward, I think it was HP and Elders. There were 2 of us (out of what 80'ish) that said there was no evidence that Sadam had anything to do with it and we should stay out of Iraq. 78 out of 80 wanted to go to war! I guess they bought the media, Bush, Colin Powell, etc.. and turned off their brains. They decided that Sadam's weapons of mass destruction were real (w/o evidence) and sanctions were not enough, we (the western world) needed to take over the country! Brains were turned off, emotions ruled the day, not in a gang fight on the street, in the chapel on Sunday.

I was part of this brain dead mass. I had faith in men.
I bought everything the Lord's church told me hook line and sinker.

Many did not voice opposition to Iraq War because they were told by Hinckley the prophet to not interfere.

"But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally." "He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... e?lang=eng

Now compare: Nelson the prophet not interfering with covid but supporting the powers that be with their shots.

"We have prayed for this literal godsend." -President Russell M. Nelson
https://www.thechurchnews.com/2021/8/12 ... s-vaccines

Do you see the difference? What can you surmise based on what you see here and you trying to have independent thought? We assume when a prophet speaks we listen and when a prophet prays he does not do so in behalf of big pharma.

So what does a prophet teach again?

[TalkingStick]

A good quote from another site which reviewed the book:

"The Millennial Star said, “We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them even if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without any questions. When Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves.” The Millennial Star, Vol 14, # 38, pages 593-595 Editor Samuel W. Richards)"

https://bookofmormonevidence.org/would- ... phet-said/

[TheDuke]

Again, I see the title in the OP as a LIE, right off the top. I have made it clear that my opinion of the Church's covid response seems non-revelatory. But, give me your evidence for your right to use the word "LIE" in the OP. What part of their decisions and statements is shown to be a LIE?

I mentioned that early on Eyring tipped me off when he said something like "he heard from expert sources" and then "around 70%" immune to form "herd immunity" and that "herd immunity would keep the church and in this case BYU-I open. I feel several things are very clear.

1) he did NOT claim revelation - so no lie there. 2) he claimed he heard from experts, which seem to be Drs, but all them were already dupped as well, and to be honest LDS Dr's aren't the hottest (not LDS members, I mean those serving the church for free or nearly, get what you pay for), then add the government ones, that until COVID did seem correct over most of US history. 3) he heard or learned that herd immunity would keep the church, etc.. open. well this is true honestly. That is where we are now - minus those that killed their immune systems -and he had access to the same lies and over-the-top impacts of COVID that every other leader in any organization had.

So, he was mistaken. He was lied to and accepted it (maybe still does). He listened to people like Dr RMN and Dr Renlund fawn over the other Dr's and swallowed it. To me it doesn't show inspiration of an apostle (but then again a true apostle has no medical business anyway and only has rights to testify of Christ as the redeemer). but never is there a point of LYING in it.

Search out all the words during the time of the Q15 and then show me a LIE! Just one. BTW good luck, been down this path before. None exist. Ok, not interested in 3rd party, i.e. LDS media, or LDS.org editor, or some GA, but Q15. And more precisely given the OP title RMN?

Waiting to read your list of quotes there my friend.

[Robin Hood]

Again, I see the title in the OP as a LIE, right off the top. I have made it clear that my opinion of the Church's covid response seems non-revelatory. But, give me your evidence for your right to use the word "LIE" in the OP. What part of their decisions and statements is shown to be a LIE?

I mentioned that early on Eyring tipped me off when he said something like "he heard from expert sources" and then "around 70%" immune to form "herd immunity" and that "herd immunity would keep the church and in this case BYU-I open. I feel several things are very clear.

1) he did NOT claim revelation - so no lie there. 2) he claimed he heard from experts, which seem to be Drs, but all them were already dupped as well, and to be honest LDS Dr's aren't the hottest (not LDS members, I mean those serving the church for free or nearly, get what you pay for), then add the government ones, that until COVID did seem correct over most of US history. 3) he heard or learned that herd immunity would keep the church, etc.. open. well this is true honestly. That is where we are now - minus those that killed their immune systems -and he had access to the same lies and over-the-top impacts of COVID that every other leader in any organization had.

So, he was mistaken. He was lied to and accepted it (maybe still does). He listened to people like Dr RMN and Dr Renlund fawn over the other Dr's and swallowed it. To me it doesn't show inspiration of an apostle (but then again a true apostle has no medical business anyway and only has rights to testify of Christ as the redeemer). but never is there a point of LYING in it.

Search out all the words during the time of the Q15 and then show me a LIE! Just one. BTW good luck, been down this path before. None exist. Ok, not interested in 3rd party, i.e. LDS media, or LDS.org editor, or some GA, but Q15. And more precisely given the OP title RMN?

Waiting to read your list of quotes there my friend.

If you think they didn't lie, you need to read this book.
I was the same as you. I thought "lie" was too strong a word. However, either way you look at it they did, in fact, lie.
"We know the vaccine has proved to be safe and effective". We don't even need to look at whether it was safe and effective (it wasn't), because no one knew that. Even the pharmaceutical companies didn't know that. In effect, the FP made a claim that not only wasn't true, but which they couldn't have known was true even if it was.
There is no way to sugar-coat this. They knowingly made a claim that was untrue, and that, by definition, is a lie.

[TheDuke]

"We know the vaccine has proved to be safe and effective". We don't even need to look at whether it was safe and effective (it wasn't), because no one knew that.

Please show this quote and source. Again, this was about RMN specifically as you'll read up post and I said any Q15 member would do. I don't want some BS church editor or someone from CIS or CES or other GA out there.

I have read all I could get on this and never seen that quote. I did tell you what Eyring thought circa late summer 2021 (before fall enrollment), he was transparent.

I don't need to read a book either. Why would you suggest I read a book to see what RMN honestly believed? Some author knew his intent? or had more quotes I didn't see from him?

And again I'm not saying he was right or wrong, looking for some/any real evidence he felt one way and spoke another (i.e. that is what lying is), not being wrong or deceived or stupid or anything.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Please show this quote and source.

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sent the following message on Thursday, August 12, 2021, to Church members around the world:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants, an unrelenting pandemic. We want to do all we can to limit the spread of these viruses. We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.

To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency

Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... 20children.

[Reluctant Watchman]

^^^ This letter from the FP was off-the-charts sucky. Most of the words I could use to describe it are blocked by the cuss filter on the forum.

[Chip]

This book probably gets around to explaining how the church is still "true". How did it support this notion? I believe that was a goal, because the author's pitch was that you needn't question the restoration. So, how was this approached?

[TheDuke]

Please show this quote and source.

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sent the following message on Thursday, August 12, 2021, to Church members around the world:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants, an unrelenting pandemic. We want to do all we can to limit the spread of these viruses. We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.

To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency

Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... 20children.

I've seen that one, not the same as Robinhood wrote on his. And while wrong, it just says they were proven... not that they are.... I.e. they take the test results (faulty or incomplete) and quote them, w/o even stating which vaccines, but some are....

Doesn't claim revelation or show lies. It just shows being trusting or gullible, etc... Like I said, seems like (and seemed at the time) no revelation, but no INTENT is captured either. SHOW ME SOME INTENT! it takes intent to lead astray to be a lie.

Robinhood's quote claimed that they personally knew (or implied it). This quote is no different than the one posted by my bank, my company, my governor, my mayor, my local eye Dr, etc..... they didn't lie, they just accepted faulty or incomplete test results.

Perhaps the problem is you don't know what a lie is? and you're guessing? Here for you to better understand the terms you apply lying - to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

[Reluctant Watchman]

SMH...

I do not claim to know the intent of these men. Has the shot proven to be deadly? Yes. But you've repeatedly denied that nearly anybody has died from the shot. "Show me the proof!!!" I get it, you want proof. I guess this is in a similar category as the atheist who wants proof that God exists.

If they didn't have ill intent, they are the least informed and least inspired religious people on the planet.

[Hiker]

E-mail from:

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants, an unrelenting pandemic. We want to do all we can to limit the spread of these viruses. We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.

To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

[Reluctant Watchman]

E-mail from:

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants, an unrelenting pandemic. We want to do all we can to limit the spread of these viruses. We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.

To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

But, but, but... how do you know they lied about this? They could have completely believed the lies from big pharma. That makes them innocent of any wrong doing.......................

[TheDuke]

E-mail from:

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants, an unrelenting pandemic. We want to do all we can to limit the spread of these viruses. We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.

To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

good catch. And very accurate. follows my quote from Eyring on herd immunity. IT never says they had any knowledge the vaxes were NOT either safe or effective in 2021. As I said quoting the line from the testing. No claiming revelation and NO EVIDENCE of ILL INTENT.

GIVE UP there is NONE!

[Hiker]

What are their fruits?
Death
Heart damage
sterility
Cancer
and much more horrible disease and pain because they followed their prophet

[TheDuke]

E-mail from:

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We find ourselves fighting a war against the ravages of COVID-19 and its variants, an unrelenting pandemic. We want to do all we can to limit the spread of these viruses. We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.

To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

But, but, but... how do you know they lied about this? They could have completely believed the lies from big pharma. That makes them innocent of any wrong doing.......................

Again you are the one "LYING" as you say that I claimed they were "innocent of any wrong doing". I never said they were innocent of anything. I said that you (and ALL those on FF) have never given a shred of evidence to the contrary. But you change my words because they sting you with truth. I never got vaxed. I never accepted their statements. I see they were wrong. I don't think they did that which was best for any of us (or most anyway), but that IS NOT EVIDENCE of mal-intent. It just isn't. NOW you turn it onto me, like I"m stupid or something. I'm NOT. I may be many things but I'm neither stupid nor unwilling to ask questions. And I'm not a liar, nor am I supporting any church positions, I've made that clear,

NOW YOU LIED because you used false statements of my statements here and claimed I said things I didn't say and did so with mal-intent. Now that is my assessment as I cannot truly determine your intent either, so you can say you didn't lie but merely make a mistake misquoting me and then adding your version of my motives? VERY SAD, there is enough wrong here to not have to make up more stuff to make yourself feel better on the putting down of others.

[TheDuke]

What are their fruits?
Death
Heart damage
sterility
Cancer
and much more horrible disease and pain because they followed their prophet

BAIT and SWITCH! This topic is about RMN lying. not about fruits of covid and covid vaxes. I guess if you're caught being wrong the only thing to do is switch topics around and not answer the question, just like Joe and Hunter!

[Reluctant Watchman]

E-mail from:

The First Presidency
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

But, but, but... how do you know they lied about this? They could have completely believed the lies from big pharma. That makes them innocent of any wrong doing.......................

Again you are the one "LYING" as you say that I claimed they were "innocent of any wrong doing". I never said they were innocent of anything. I said that you (and ALL those on FF) have never given a shred of evidence to the contrary. But you change my words because they sting you with truth. I never got vaxed. I never accepted their statements. I see they were wrong. I don't think they did that which was best for any of us (or most anyway), but that IS NOT EVIDENCE of mal-intent. It just isn't. NOW you turn it onto me, like I"m stupid or something. I'm NOT. I may be many things but I'm neither stupid nor unwilling to ask questions. And I'm not a liar, nor am I supporting any church positions, I've made that clear,

NOW YOU LIED because you used false statements of my statements here and claimed I said things I didn't say and did so with mal-intent. Now that is my assessment as I cannot truly determine your intent either, so you can say you didn't lie but merely make a mistake misquoting me and then adding your version of my motives? VERY SAD, there is enough wrong here to not have to make up more stuff to make yourself feel better on the putting down of others.

Did I quote you? No. Stop lying!!


BTW, my previous statement still stands, these men are the least-inspired religious figures on the planet, IMO. And if you do want proof of their lies, yes they do lie. They lied about $32B.

It is nearly impossible to prove the intent of a person. For this man (RMN) to come out and say this jab was "safe and effective" is, IMO, a lie. I think he lied. I really do. But that's just my opinion.

[Hiker]

This thread is about if the prophet lied. And clearly he did lie! We were told that the shots were safe and effective and they are not.

The prophet did lie to all of us

[Chip]

The lie IS and HAS BEEN that the leaders speak for God and cannot lead the church astray. Apparently, not only do they NOT speak for God, God didn't see it fit to tap them on the shoulder and say, "Hey, wait a minute here. These shots are weapons." And if God DID try to warn them, they weren't listening. But then, again, they aren't actually prophets, so maybe it really lands in the members' laps who should've had a bit of interest in truth and maybe should have been looking out for that secret combination we are expecting to see and commanded to awaken to.

[4Joshua8]

This thread is about if the prophet lied. And clearly he did lie! We were told that the shots were safe and effective and they are not.

The prophet did lie to all of us

A prophet sees around corners. Therefore, RMN saw that the masks wouldn't work, that the vaccines would be deadly and injurious and not work, and that the recommended treatments for bad COVID would kill many. If he is a prophet and sees around corners, he saw all these things and yet still said to mask up, get vaxxed, and trust the experts.

He was either lying or does not have the gift of prophecy. He says he's a prophet, so no matter what he is lying.

[Reluctant Watchman]

A prophet sees around corners. Therefore, RMN saw that the masks wouldn't work, that the vaccines would be deadly and injurious and not work, and that the recommended treatments for bad COVID would kill many. If he is a prophet and sees around corners, he saw all these things and yet still said to mask up, get vaxxed, and trust the experts.

He was either lying or does not have the gift of prophecy. He says he's a prophet, so no matter what he is lying.

"Don’t make life harder by being stupid."

Respectfully,
Sheri Dew