Perks of the General Authorities

[Niemand]

Kind of silly statements that there is free accommodations that is. TANSTAAFL.

If one's not paying for it, it's a free lunch for that individual.

[CMajor]

Enzio Busche originally was being groomed to be an Apostle and was told Apostles get a million dollar bonus to clean up any debts or to buy a new house, etc. He was given insider information about the future location of the Bountiful Temple so that he could buy up the land and make a killing when the Temple was announced. He was also told to make more money he could write books. Members just love buying books written by Apostles. (I find them to be completely empty and filled with fluff) He was very disappointed in the dishonesty he saw from those who called themselves servants of God, and said no thanks. So the Church eventually found another German to fill the vacancy.

[TheDuke]

Kind of silly statements that there is free accommodations that is. TANSTAAFL.

If one's not paying for it, it's a free lunch for that individual.

Ok, sure any redirection of funds benefits one or the other but it is ABSURD to say staying at someone's house and eating their food is FREE in any way! Maybe more homey, or perhaps less expensive, but not free, to their organization as someone inside is still paying.

At least at a restaurant you order what you want and eat it. There was way much left over that I recall (not wasted) but expenses made.

Laughing that you truly could even say "free" after all your posts on global economics etc...

[Good & Global]

-No payment of tithing - (from Enzio Busche former GA Seventy)

I'm wary of lists like this, from children/grandchildren. Not that they are false, per se, on their face, but the type of child/grandchild who would share this and share it like they do makes me unsympathetic to their motives.

The leaked paystub from President Eyring, which is the source for the $120,000 figure for the salaries, shows that he, at least, paid tithing on it. On gross.

I don't believe that they are exempt from tithing. Maybe Eyring chose to pay it, anyway, but I doubt that he would be an outlier.

I will have to look for it but I think there was a time in early church history where they all got together and decided they no longer should pay tithing. Maybe someone on the forum can reference it.

[Rubicon]

Enzio Busche originally was being groomed to be an Apostle and was told Apostles get a million dollar bonus to clean up any debts or to buy a new house, etc. He was given insider information about the future location of the Bountiful Temple so that he could buy up the land and make a killing when the Temple was announced. He was also told to make more money he could write books. Members just love buying books written by Apostles. (I find them to be completely empty and filled with fluff) He was very disappointed in the dishonesty he saw from those who called themselves servants of God, and said no thanks. So the Church eventually found another German to fill the vacancy.

This is all on the authority of John Dehlin, with no evidence (i.e., his word against a dead Busche). I don't trust Dehlin any further than I can throw him, and waiting until Busche was safely dead (and couldn't respond to or refute it) before coming forth with this "revelation" is suspect.

The Brethren are, to a man, already rich when they are called. They don't need this "clearing the decks" million dollar payment. And, they make $120,000 per year for life.

[IsaiahVision]

Isaiah says it all:

Isaiah 3

12 ...O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.

13 Jehovah will take a stand and contend with them; he has arisen to judge the nations.

14 He will bring to trial the elders of his people and their rulers, and say to them, It is you who have devoured the vineyard; you fill your houses by depriving the needy.

15 What do you mean by oppressing my people, humbling the faces of the poor? says Jehovah of Hosts.

[Good & Global]

Kind of silly statements that there is free accommodations that is. TANSTAAFL.

If one's not paying for it, it's a free lunch for that individual.

Ok, sure any redirection of funds benefits one or the other but it is ABSURD to say staying at someone's house and eating their food is FREE in any way! Maybe more homey, or perhaps less expensive, but not free, to their organization as someone inside is still paying.

At least at a restaurant you order what you want and eat it. There was way much left over that I recall (not wasted) but expenses made.

Laughing that you truly could even say "free" after all your posts on global economics etc...

I agree with there is no free lunch. Someone always pays.

But this does remind that the Brethren use to stay at people's houses when traveling.
It was usually a stake president's house if there was no higher officer in the area.
This was happening up to mid 90s if I recall from people I have personally known.

That all seemed to have changed.

[Seed Starter]

If one's not paying for it, it's a free lunch for that individual.

Ok, sure any redirection of funds benefits one or the other but it is ABSURD to say staying at someone's house and eating their food is FREE in any way! Maybe more homey, or perhaps less expensive, but not free, to their organization as someone inside is still paying.

At least at a restaurant you order what you want and eat it. There was way much left over that I recall (not wasted) but expenses made.

Laughing that you truly could even say "free" after all your posts on global economics etc...

I agree with there is no free lunch. Someone always pays.

But this does remind that the Brethren use to stay at people's houses when traveling.
It was usually a stake president's house if there was no higher officer in the area.
This was happening up to mid 90s if I recall from people I have personally known.

That all seemed to have changed.

Did they feed the security detail too or was it hot dogs on the dash for them? Apostles must have the entourage of a rapper these days

[Good & Global]

But this does remind that the Brethren use to stay at people's houses when traveling.
It was usually a stake president's house if there was no higher officer in the area.
This was happening up to mid 90s if I recall from people I have personally known.

That all seemed to have changed.

Did they feed the security detail too or was it hot dogs on the dash for them? Apostles must have the entourage of a rapper these days

Lol maybe. Generally the stake president and his family or higher officer was their security believe it or not.

This was before they had such incredible faith in God they needed armored Audis like Monson did.

I guess you do need a rapper's entourage when you get worshipped like rock stars

[IcedKoffee]

Enzio Busche originally was being groomed to be an Apostle and was told Apostles get a million dollar bonus to clean up any debts or to buy a new house, etc. He was given insider information about the future location of the Bountiful Temple so that he could buy up the land and make a killing when the Temple was announced. He was also told to make more money he could write books. Members just love buying books written by Apostles. (I find them to be completely empty and filled with fluff) He was very disappointed in the dishonesty he saw from those who called themselves servants of God, and said no thanks. So the Church eventually found another German to fill the vacancy.

This was the gist of what Enzio Busche told myself, Phil Davis, and a few others who sat in his office/library/ bedroom for 5 hours.

[IcedKoffee]

Red Ledges million dollar homes anyone?

Flying airplanes he gets it. First Class is better than Economy otherwise known as cattle class.

Phil Davis and I used to hold meetings at two of Uchtdorf’s neighbors in Red Ledges. One was an elderly German sister who met with Uchtdorf on a few occasions. At the time (about 5 years ago) both of these neighbors said their HOA fees were over six thousand dollars a month (correction- per year)

[Teancum1]

I agree. When viewed with the proper perspective—that these men are executives of a billion-dollar multinational corporation, rather than ministers—their perks are not very impressive.

Agreed but what is so funny is with all these backroom deals they keep cutting with businesses, hiding money from members, reimbursing all manner of charges put on credit cards for their "poor stipend" folks, you honestly think they are going to have any direct link to them receiving money that would show its all a scam?

Why do you think they have lawyers and businessmen for the Q15 and not farmers and fishermen. They know how to obfuscate and hide money. So we know they do not receive any of this excess? Do we have a live camera on the 150+ billion dollars as if they were gold coins in a vault? Members do not even know how much money they have. Shouldn't that be a dead giveaway you do not know what they get in full compensation? If you do not even know how much they have to begin with, how do you know anything has been taken away?

$120k is base pay that is known to the public. What is a pass to the celestial kingdom worth? Sure, some non GA's get that but being a GA pretty much guarantees the 2nd anointing. I don't think the 2A guarantees anything but many people do so there is a huge perceived value there. I wonder how much money an auction for a pair of 2A's would bring? What would someone pay for that if it were as simple as paying cash. I'd guess that would depend on supply. These men have power and respect by virtue of their positions. What is that worth? Some people find zero value in that and others are all about those things.

Something else to consider if it really was only $120k is how many free "volunteer" hours did it take to reach that level? The perks should be food, travel/lodging, security, and perhaps money for suits. I would guess much more than $120k is involved for the top guys but I can't know how much.

I believe the yearly stipend is closer to 160k now. They receive a yearly COLA of about 3%. The widows mite organization estimates their finances here:
https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/2022update/

[Teancum1]

Pretty shitty perks IMO! I had similar perks but I wouldn't have worked for those slavery wages. The execs in my company of which I wasn't would have 10x the salary, access to continual private jets, don't pay tithing, and get to go to way better places and don't have to have other GA's families around when they get down. Not too mention $10sM to $100sM in stock options.

I agree. When viewed with the proper perspective—that these men are executives of a billion-dollar multinational corporation, rather than ministers—their perks are not very impressive.

I wonder what the early church paid the apostles and Jesus. Or what about King Benjamin and the church leaders in the Book of Mormon.
Oh yeah. They didn’t pay them anything.

To compare them to executives shows just how far away from the truth we have fallen. The Book of Mormon clearly teaches that they should labor “with their own hands” but who needs to use the scriptures.
Mosiah 18: 24 And he also commanded them that the priests whom he had ordained should labor with their own hands for their support.
2 Ne 26: 29 He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.
Wherefore, if they should have charity they would not suffer the laborer in Zion to perish.
31 But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish.

Mosiah 2: 14 And even I, myself, have labored with mine own hands that I might serve you, and that ye should not be laden with taxes, and that there should nothing come upon you which was grievous to be borne

As opposed to Nehor in Alma 1: 3 And he had gone about among the people, preaching to them that which he termed to be the word of God, bearing down against the church; declaring unto the people that every priest and teacher ought to become popular; and they ought not to labor with their hands, but that they ought to be supported by the people.

This is partly why the church remains under condemnation since 1832- they have not used the fullness of the gospel/doctrines found in the new covenant- even the Book of Mormon.

But it makes people feel good to hear that the church leaders get paid 5 times the average worker in the US because they deserve executive pay? Cognitive dissonance anyone?

[Teancum1]

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/The-Ch ... O48,64.htm

37k to 57k is closer to regular people.

This seems more in line with what they should receive.

[Teancum1]

Compared to what King Benjamin received the leadership in our day are doing pretty well for themselves.

https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/comp/

Cumulative pay since being called.

[JuneBug12000]

I wonder what the early church paid the apostles and Jesus. Or what about King Benjamin and the church leaders in the Book of Mormon.
Oh yeah. They didn’t pay them anything.

What are you taking about, Peter's MIL was healed. . . Oh well, I guess Jesus did that for everyone.

But about when the Apostles were starving so they were given permission to pluck a few grains on the Sabbath? Pretty great perk!

/Sarc

[Atrasado]

Pretty shitty perks IMO! I had similar perks but I wouldn't have worked for those slavery wages. The execs in my company of which I wasn't would have 10x the salary, access to continual private jets, don't pay tithing, and get to go to way better places and don't have to have other GA's families around when they get down. Not too mention $10sM to $100sM in stock options.

I agree. When viewed with the proper perspective—that these men are executives of a billion-dollar multinational corporation, rather than ministers—their perks are not very impressive.

Not my point, when viewed of a minimalist Jr American worker in retirement age, not too impressive. Not something to get into the game for.

Duke, what they get paid isn't the point. They get paid a "stipend" and other benefits that are in total three to four times the average household income in the United States all while paying no tithing on any of it. Meanwhile, Church employees who get paid much less than they do lose their jobs if they don't pay tithing. And they fly first-class to poor people all over the world telling them to pay tithing, or they can't go to the temple or go to heaven. They are literally taking food and clothes from needy children--offending God's little ones in very deed. If you can't see the deep hypocrisy and the satanic evil in this I don't know what's wrong with you. To me it seems like Church members who think this is ok are,

In the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for they hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should they be cut off while in the thought, they must go down to hell. For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one [person even though he payeth no tithing because he hath a high Church calling, and the other must perish physically because he payeth his tithing and hath no money for food or perisheth spiritually because he payeth no tithing so that he may feed his children].

Can you really not see the rank injustice and hypocrisy in this situation?

I don't care how much they might be making in the private sector. In fact, that's another reason why they shouldn't be getting a stipend at all, because they don't need it! This is true wickedness.

[Severus]

Enzio Busche originally was being groomed to be an Apostle and was told Apostles get a million dollar bonus to clean up any debts or to buy a new house, etc. He was given insider information about the future location of the Bountiful Temple so that he could buy up the land and make a killing when the Temple was announced. He was also told to make more money he could write books. Members just love buying books written by Apostles. (I find them to be completely empty and filled with fluff) He was very disappointed in the dishonesty he saw from those who called themselves servants of God, and said no thanks. So the Church eventually found another German to fill the vacancy.

This is all on the authority of John Dehlin, with no evidence (i.e., his word against a dead Busche). I don't trust Dehlin any further than I can throw him, and waiting until Busche was safely dead (and couldn't respond to or refute it) before coming forth with this "revelation" is suspect.

The Brethren are, to a man, already rich when they are called. They don't need this "clearing the decks" million dollar payment. And, they make $120,000 per year for life.

The Busche family have gone up against these claims. No way was it true according to them. I am surprised they haven't sued this Dehlin guy.

[IcedKoffee]

Enzio Busche originally was being groomed to be an Apostle and was told Apostles get a million dollar bonus to clean up any debts or to buy a new house, etc. He was given insider information about the future location of the Bountiful Temple so that he could buy up the land and make a killing when the Temple was announced. He was also told to make more money he could write books. Members just love buying books written by Apostles. (I find them to be completely empty and filled with fluff) He was very disappointed in the dishonesty he saw from those who called themselves servants of God, and said no thanks. So the Church eventually found another German to fill the vacancy.

This is all on the authority of John Dehlin, with no evidence (i.e., his word against a dead Busche). I don't trust Dehlin any further than I can throw him, and waiting until Busche was safely dead (and couldn't respond to or refute it) before coming forth with this "revelation" is suspect.

The Brethren are, to a man, already rich when they are called. They don't need this "clearing the decks" million dollar payment. And, they make $120,000 per year for life.

The Busche family have gone up against these claims. No way was it true according to them. I am surprised they haven't sued this Dehlin guy.

It’s true, I heard it from Busche myself!

[Severus]

This is all on the authority of John Dehlin, with no evidence (i.e., his word against a dead Busche). I don't trust Dehlin any further than I can throw him, and waiting until Busche was safely dead (and couldn't respond to or refute it) before coming forth with this "revelation" is suspect.

The Brethren are, to a man, already rich when they are called. They don't need this "clearing the decks" million dollar payment. And, they make $120,000 per year for life.

The Busche family have gone up against these claims. No way was it true according to them. I am surprised they haven't sued this Dehlin guy.

It’s true, I heard it from Busche myself!

Are you sure you understood him, then? I could really speak my mind, and I often do, and it can be taken by the every day american that I have or have feelings or attitudes I don't have. It happens all the time to me.

[IcedKoffee]

The Busche family have gone up against these claims. No way was it true according to them. I am surprised they haven't sued this Dehlin guy.

It’s true, I heard it from Busche myself!

Are you sure you understood him, then? I could really speak my mind, and I often do, and it can be taken by the every day american that I have or have feelings or attitudes I don't have. It happens all the time to me.

I spent 5 hours listening to him. He was pretty clear!

[TheDuke]

I agree. When viewed with the proper perspective—that these men are executives of a billion-dollar multinational corporation, rather than ministers—their perks are not very impressive.

Not my point, when viewed of a minimalist Jr American worker in retirement age, not too impressive. Not something to get into the game for.

Duke, what they get paid isn't the point. They get paid a "stipend" and other benefits that are in total three to four times the average household income in the United States all while paying no tithing on any of it. Meanwhile, Church employees who get paid much less than they do lose their jobs if they don't pay tithing. And they fly first-class to poor people all over the world telling them to pay tithing, or they can't go to the temple or go to heaven. They are literally taking food and clothes from needy children--offending God's little ones in very deed. If you can't see the deep hypocrisy and the satanic evil in this I don't know what's wrong with you. To me it seems like Church members who think this is ok are,

In the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for they hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should they be cut off while in the thought, they must go down to hell. For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one [person even though he payeth no tithing because he hath a high Church calling, and the other must perish physically because he payeth his tithing and hath no money for food or perisheth spiritually because he payeth no tithing so that he may feed his children].

Can you really not see the rank injustice and hypocrisy in this situation?

I don't care how much they might be making in the private sector. In fact, that's another reason why they shouldn't be getting a stipend at all, because they don't need it! This is true wickedness.

No I don't see an issue. Who gives a crap what they make? They spend full time in service (whether or not you like what they do and how they do it) right up until they die. You think they make good money. I say it sucks. You're obviously quite clueless about how any exec exists in America. I would never accept living on such little money and having executive expectations (suits, ties, pressed shirts, clean cars, etc...) it ain't cheap to host other execs and you don't do it by picking up your guests in a 1999 Toyota Rav4 with 200,000+ miles on it, like I have?

I'm pretty sorry your jealous? And who cares if they pay tithes? They surely shouldn't on the stipend. They should on books and such (priestcraft income). I've NEVER heard they don't pay tithes. But I know it is wrong for anyone to pay on church income given for sustenance, including church welfare.

I am often amazed at how little many folks on the forum understand about professional socialities? I'm pretty much an outsider myself. I never liked doing exec stuff. But, I've been in the mansions of a few wealthy folks for social invites and get togethers for business reasons (Sec Def in UK, Euro, Singapore, Japan, etc...) and it isn't a place you show up in Wrangler jeans and a cheap shirt, self laundered. That costs money, cannot have clean nice suits and such on less than $160K. Hell, I live in Seattle area and it costs nearly $120K just to survive here owning a paid off house (Internet, TV, insurances, taxes of all kinds, car tabs, water, electricity, garbage, simple vacations, normal food, gasoline, tithes, medical, etc...)

The perks are nothing IMO. Of course you'd have to pay me $600K a year or more if you wanted me to have to attend 20 hours of GC a year in person!

[Niemand]

Kind of silly statements that there is free accommodations that is. TANSTAAFL.

If one's not paying for it, it's a free lunch for that individual.

Ok, sure any redirection of funds benefits one or the other but it is ABSURD to say staying at someone's house and eating their food is FREE in any way! Maybe more homey, or perhaps less expensive, but not free, to their organization as someone inside is still paying.

At least at a restaurant you order what you want and eat it. There was way much left over that I recall (not wasted) but expenses made.

Laughing that you truly could even say "free" after all your posts on global economics etc...

We are talking about whether something is free to the person taking it. It certainly is in most cases. Someone else is paying for it, but the GA isn't.

[Atrasado]

Red Ledges million dollar homes anyone?

Flying airplanes he gets it. First Class is better than Economy otherwise known as cattle class.

Phil Davis and I used to hold meetings at two of Uchtdorf’s neighbors in Red Ledges. One was an elderly German sister who met with Uchtdorf on a few occasions. At the time (about 5 years ago) both of these neighbors said their HOA fees were over six thousand dollars a month.

That's not per month, that's per year according to this.

[Atrasado]

Not my point, when viewed of a minimalist Jr American worker in retirement age, not too impressive. Not something to get into the game for.

Duke, what they get paid isn't the point. They get paid a "stipend" and other benefits that are in total three to four times the average household income in the United States all while paying no tithing on any of it. Meanwhile, Church employees who get paid much less than they do lose their jobs if they don't pay tithing. And they fly first-class to poor people all over the world telling them to pay tithing, or they can't go to the temple or go to heaven. They are literally taking food and clothes from needy children--offending God's little ones in very deed. If you can't see the deep hypocrisy and the satanic evil in this I don't know what's wrong with you. To me it seems like Church members who think this is ok are,

In the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for they hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should they be cut off while in the thought, they must go down to hell. For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one [person even though he payeth no tithing because he hath a high Church calling, and the other must perish physically because he payeth his tithing and hath no money for food or perisheth spiritually because he payeth no tithing so that he may feed his children].

Can you really not see the rank injustice and hypocrisy in this situation?

I don't care how much they might be making in the private sector. In fact, that's another reason why they shouldn't be getting a stipend at all, because they don't need it! This is true wickedness.

No I don't see an issue. Who gives a crap what they make? They spend full time in service (whether or not you like what they do and how they do it) right up until they die. You think they make good money. I say it sucks. You're obviously quite clueless about how any exec exists in America. I would never accept living on such little money and having executive expectations (suits, ties, pressed shirts, clean cars, etc...) it ain't cheap to host other execs and you don't do it by picking up your guests in a 1999 Toyota Rav4 with 200,000+ miles on it, like I have?

I'm pretty sorry your jealous? And who cares if they pay tithes? They surely shouldn't on the stipend. They should on books and such (priestcraft income). I've NEVER heard they don't pay tithes. But I know it is wrong for anyone to pay on church income given for sustenance, including church welfare.

I am often amazed at how little many folks on the forum understand about professional socialities? I'm pretty much an outsider myself. I never liked doing exec stuff. But, I've been in the mansions of a few wealthy folks for social invites and get togethers for business reasons (Sec Def in UK, Euro, Singapore, Japan, etc...) and it isn't a place you show up in Wrangler jeans and a cheap shirt, self laundered. That costs money, cannot have clean nice suits and such on less than $160K. Hell, I live in Seattle area and it costs nearly $120K just to survive here owning a paid off house (Internet, TV, insurances, taxes of all kinds, car tabs, water, electricity, garbage, simple vacations, normal food, gasoline, tithes, medical, etc...)

The perks are nothing IMO. Of course you'd have to pay me $600K a year or more if you wanted me to have to attend 20 hours of GC a year in person!

I'm not jealous, Duke. It's just wrong. Very, very wrong. That's all.