Does God live in you?

[John Tavner]

I heard something earlier today that made me think. They were speaking of it in terms of "are you saved" or "are you baptized" Or did you ahve "hands laid upon your head."

Perhaps the better question we should ask ourselves is "Does God live in you?" Ephesians 2:22 22And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit. 1 Cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?


Do we understand the power and the majesty God is intending to give us. Do we see His heart for us? If we don't believe He is dwelling in us, then how can we function as Sons? How can we bear His name? How can we glorify Him?

Do we believe? In our prayers do we thank God that His Spirit dwells in us and is forming us into His image (see 2 Cor)? We talk a lot of waking up, but when will we wake up to what God has told us we are and stop living in the flesh, always focused on the flesh rather than on the promises of God? How can I consider myself dead to sin and alive to Christ if I am always trying hard not to sin? If Sin is my focus and avoiding it, how can I produce righteous fruit? Yes, if we confess our sins God is faithful and just in forgiving us and cleansing us from all unrighteousness, but He doesn't want us to remain in sin, He doesn't want us to always try to "not sin." He wants us to live out His rightoeusness. He wants us to embrace the righteousness HE gives us through His Son- so our focus is no longer on not sinning, but on glorifying Him to the world- so they might knwo Him through us and in us to sow and water, so God can bring the increase. So as Nephi once said "awake oh my soul, no longer droop in Sin, for I know in whom I have trusted" Trust in God, no longer droop in your sin, but consider it dead and rejoice in the life that God gives you, rejoice in His mercy and begin to live free - for where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Holy is hte Lord. Holy means "set apart" "consecrated" Do we udnerstand how different the Lord is from all other beings claiming to be a god? He is love He offering to come live in us through His Spirit, to grow us up into Him, to glorify Him and become love like Him- but if we see ourselves as separate from Him, then how can we do anything He asks? We will always cut off any authority He is willing to give us because of our unbelief- becuase we doubt He really is "that" merciful. We will doubt He really is that "good" that He really does love us and desires to make His abode in us and has prepared many mansions in HIs house for us - to dwell with HIm and we are invited. But if We can't believe in His mercy now, how will we believe it when we come before Him? If we can't believe it now, how can we believe it for others and help them see that the "blood of Jesus speaks better things" than abel's blood.

God is amazing and He loves us- will we let Him love us? Or will we let our pride prevent Him from loving us and say "Lord you aren't enough, I need to do xyz before I can receive." We are told not to add or take away from His gospel. His message is simple Have faith that Jesus came, He lived, and He died so that we could be restored back into relationship with the Father and you are made righteous by His blood, by beginning to believe that you ahve "re-turned" or repented/changed your mind. Another way to say it is "repent, the kingdom of God is at hand" or "chagne your mind about what you think about yourself and God and see who God is thorugh Jesus Christ and know that GOd wants to place His Kingdom within you and He wants to dwell in you with His Spirit - so you can be an abode to the Father and living epistle- a living temple ot the most High God. The next parts are "be baptized" or remember that you are dead to your sin - even if it tries to rear its ugly head, that isn't who you are- you are to be alive in Christ, having your concscience made clean through sprinkling of Jesus blood - the washing of water is a help and be as a little child - remain in that state of joy and humility realizing He wants to save you adn take care of you- He has given His earnest of that through HIs Spirit. So the question again "Do you believe that God dwells in you?" His Spirit is His mind. He has given you a new heart. So "repent" Or chagne your mind and return to the Lord believing that He does love you enough to place His SPirit in you- and don't let go of that believe that God is forming you into His image - for whoever has taht hope is pure even as He is pure (1 John 3).

[Thinker]

Besides the human sacrifice scapegoating, good points.

God is experienced within us. How silly that, that’s controversial.

Does God live within us? Yes - physically (intelligent design) & spiritually - though how tuned in we are depends on various factors.

[John Tavner]

Besides the human sacrifice scapegoating, good points.

God is experienced within us. How silly that, that’s controversial.

Does God live within us? Yes - physically (intelligent design) & spiritually - though how tuned in we are depends on various factors.

Haha, was there a need to point out your disagreement using those terms? What you call Human scapegoating is a manifestation of God's love - that His life given was to demonstrate to us the life we can receive- to receive Holy Spirit. A being who gives their life for all their children to be saved- to take punishment- so that we might live free- there is power in that - even if you don't believe it as truth - the "myth" itself is enough to change lives- because a righteous/perfect being gave His life for a deplorable creature who didn't even know God - even though God was always wooing us - it is saying there is worth in you despite you feeling and thinking you are unworthy. It is God proclaiming life to us when all we see is death and cursing sin on a pole for the whole world to see- that the battle is won- now it comes down to faith. Though you stating that just let me share a bit more of His grace and mercy, so I suppose I should thank you!

That manifestation of God's love allows us to be pure in the now and in the moment - to believe we are righteous now- because we are, becaue of Jesus Christ- so there is no "pride" or "self righteousness" which creeps in where one can say "i worked harder" His mercy is and life given is which allows Holy Spriit (God) to dwell in us now. So you have access to God now- the only separation is in your head- for instance you were talking about enemies and loving them. The power is within you now, the grace is there with you now - God can "breathe" that life into you if you receive so it just happens as there is a yielding to that mercy towards them and yourself. You were created to be a manifestation of God's love to the world- the Spirit dwelling in you is for that purpose.

You are right though that there are many factors that determine how tuned in we are... one of the main ones is our belief or unbelief.

[Thinker]

Well now that you focus on it, light can be shed on it. Why wouldn’t I at least mention such an evil passed off as good?

Why would anyone think human sacrifice is godly?
God demands the killing of an innocent person to be appeased?

And scapegoating? Shifting responsibility to make an innocent one suffer - is the epitome of evil.

These are evil that were probably introduced by Constantine’s side kick, the “father of Christian history,” Eusebius who said…

“It is an act of virtue to deceive & lie, when by such means the interest of the church might be promoted.”
&
“It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.”

[Being There]

Jesus lives in you - YOU ARE GOD'S TEMPLE !

Jesus can live in you !

I wish more members would really understand and believe this - the way this video explains it.


This video was done a little too dramatic for me; and the music too loud;
and I wish that I could just read the words to it,
but the message is incredible, and the words are so powerful
and more what we need to understand and know and believe that
Jesus Christ can live in us and work through us.

I was moved by this video from our Christian friends that we share
our belief in Christ with.
They are Gods children also, and our brothers and sisters,
and love and believe in Him and the power that Jesus Christ has to change our lives
and live in us if we believe in Him.

PLEASE TAKE JUST A FEW MINUTES AND LISTEN TO IT - TODAY !

* (someone loved it so much, that they made this transcript of the words in the video)

Transcript:

You are a rebel, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, I’ll tell you straight up.

You are rebel against the living God. This is your natural disposition. Why? Because you were born in sin,

We are in a prison cell, and it takes the awakening and the grace of God, it’s called the Prevenient Grace of God, to awaken us to the fact that we are lost, and we can’t get out.

We’re headed towards destruction – fast!

The enemy, because of our rebellion against God, has the legal right to harm and harass our life.

There you are behind the prison cells yelling, “Help I need I need out!”

You can’t get out!

Those prison bars are stronger than any adamant. There is no way that you can cut them, because they are stronger than diamond, it is impenetrable!

You cannot escape! You’re doomed!

Because when the enemy comes, in the very end, he’s going to finish you off. Because he has legal right to do it. He’s going to relish every minute of it!!

In strolls your intercessor. Your mighty man, and He stands between you and that accuser and He takes the hits that were rightfully yours. And he takes the full blow that was intended for you.

That is an extraordinary reality that He was turned to a pulp and He actually died. God died…for you!

Over your prison cell it is always said, “Condemned, Separated Eternally from God, Guilty!”

And then suddenly it switches.

When you realize what Jesus Christ has done for you, it says, “Justified,” it says, “Forgiven,” “Redeemed!”

Here’s the problem: most of us have stopped with the good news, right there. The blood of Jesus Christ has been shed, and he was killed, and I want you to know that is unbelievable news, but we’re still in a prison cell.

So were praising God from within a prison cell saying, “Thank you, God, for forgiving me. Thank you for changing the sign on the outside of the prison cell.”

And God’s word says, “Could you check the door to the prison cell? Because My blood was shed for more than just forgiveness.”

Forgiveness was the avenue through which he could make the escape for us. He isn’t interested in just dealing with the consequences and the penalties of sin. He’s also dealt with the problem of sin.

Test the door! It’s unlocked! The door to the prison cell is unlocked!

Walk out! Smell the open air of freedom and liberty in the life of Jesus Christ.

When you get outside the prison cell there’s like this chariot that is waiting, emissaries from the kingdom are there waiting, they say, “The King beckons you into His presence.”

You know how bizarre this is when you realize that you were a rebel, that you were undeserving completely, that the living God has given up His life for you, and now He has set you free.

And now the very King is beckoning you into His presence. It’s like, “Are you sure you have the right guy here? I’m a rebel. I stood against my God, I spat in His face. How could He want me?”

He beckons you.

You get in the chariot and as you are pulling into the kingdom, you’re looking for where they might drop you off. You’re looking for the poor district. You say, “Where you taking me?”

“Well, into the very near presence of the King. He wants you to live right where He lives.”

Not just the penalty.

Not just the problem.

But an invitation into His very near presence!

But as you are coming in the emissaries say, “He wants to adopt you as His child.

“Me? As his child?”

We are brought in and invited to be very near, to share His heart.

You come into His presence totally broken, before the reality of what He has done for you, “I don’t deserve this. Why have you done this for me?”

“I love you…

I have a commission for you.”

“Me, you want to have me work for you?”

“I want you to work for me. I want you to represent me.”

“Absolutely. Anything I can do for you! Tell me.”

“I need you to go back to that prison cell that I took you out of. Because there’s a whole bunch more that need to know about me and my love, and my truth. Will you go for me?”

“In a heartbeat. I would gladly serve you. Any way you want! Any way you ask.”

“I need to forewarn you. I’m going to send you out. And you’ll be as a sheep among wolves. They’ll will kill you. They’ll destroy you. They’ll will hate you. They’ll persecute you. They will do whatever they can to harm you.”

“I’m in. I’ll do it God. I don’t care. You should your blood for me. I would gladly shed my blood for you. Take me. Take my blood. Take my body. Spend it anyway you want. I belong to you in covenant. Take me Lord Jesus, Send me.

The commission…

Not just the penalty.

Not just the problem.

Not just the invitation into His very near presence.

Not just the adoption as a son or a daughter of the King of Kings.

But we are commissioned to represent Him.

I want you to realize that is a privilege beyond all other privileges – to bear the very name, the very image, the very reputation of God Almighty! And He says I asked you to go. Go and make disciples of all men. Go and be unashamed of my gospel, and preach it. Go rescue the lost in the power of my name, because I’m the Lamb that was slain, worthy to receive the reward of His suffering.”

“I’ll go.”

And as you’re beginning to head out with His blessing, He says, “Hold on, wait, there’s one more thing.”

Not just the penalty.

Not just the problem.

Not just the invitation into his very near presence.

Not just the adoption as a son or daughter of the King of Kings.

And not just the commission.

This is the capstone.

If you think that this is all good, you can wrap that all into one ball and it still falls short of the final one. Because this final one is so condescending on the part of our King. It is so bewildering! It is so extraordinary! It is so amazing!

This is the truth that turns the world upside down:

“Before you go, what I’m sending you out to do is impossible.”

“I know.”

“And if you do it in your own strength, you’ll fail.”

“I don’t care. I’m willing to do whatever you ask of me, and if you want me to go in there and just die. I’m willing.”

“I’m sending you out to be a victor. My children will not lose. Would you give me your body, and I will come in and make it my home. And I will take those hands of yours and make them my hands. I will take those feet of yours and make them my feet. I will take that mouth of yours and I will speak my words. And I will take those eyes of yours and they can now see what I need you to see in this world. And I will take your heart of stone and make it a heart of flesh so that it will beat with my burdens, so you will care for the very things that I care about. And your prayers will become my prayers and your life and your attitude in your behaviors, and every minute of every day will be the very behavior of God!

Will you allow me to overtake your life?

Because then we go into this world as little lambs with the faces of lions.”

Because the living God Almighty, the Consuming Almighty Sovereign God dwells within His children!

We stand and the wolf pack surrounds us. We stand in the authority, and in the name of Jesus. We will not back down!

Because we do not head off to war to lose. We head off to war to win!

Our God mocks all the powers of earth and hell…through frothy little lambs, because His lambs beat the wolfpack.

That’s the gospel!

The gospel trounces upon all the powers of earth and hell, and demonstrates to all the universe the manifold wisdom of God! That He is in control!

And even though we look weak, and even though physically and naturally we are weak, spiritually greater is He that is in us then he that is in this world.

That is good news!

And it is a lot better than we delve out today in the church. We need to rise up! Proclaim the gospel.

Saying, “I’m not ashamed of it. Dear Lord Jesus, take what is rightfully yours. Don’t just send us, send us with yourself firmly planted within our souls.

We cannot do your work. We cannot bring you glory, even though we are willing to do it without you. We can’t do it without you. Please we want you to come with us, why would we ever try on our own?”

You don’t have to go on your own. You don’t have to pull off the impossible on your own. You don’t have to fail any longer.

Your God is ready to do it in and through you. You can’t do it. You can’t muster up the discipline. You can’t muster up the intellect. You can’t muster up the strength. You can’t muster up the perseverance, and the fortitude.

He can.

You can’t love the lost. You can’t love those that spit upon your face.

He can.

Don’t pray that God would teach you how to love like He loves, pray that He would fill you with Himself that He would love through you.

Don’t pray that He would teach you to have joy, pray that the Living God full of joy would enter into you.

Don’t pray that He would teach you how to be peaceful, ask for the God of Peace, the Prince of Peace to fill you.

Because if you try to imitate Him in your own strength, you will be a miserable replica.

But if you allow the impartation of Jesus Christ to overtake you.

Suddenly it all works.

Because it’s Him imitating Himself.

And he is very good at being

God!

[Being There]

[Ymarsakar]

wat, you guys are now calling yourselves gods, and becoming too much like ymar? Heh

"Haha, was there a need to point out your disagreement using those terms? What you call Human scapegoating is a manifestation of God's love - that His life given was to demonstrate to us the life we can receive- to receive Holy Spirit."

THere is a valid point, partially, to what John wrote.

"Why would anyone think human sacrifice is godly?
God demands the killing of an innocent person to be appeased?

And scapegoating? Shifting responsibility to make an innocent one suffer - is the epitome of evil.

These are evil that were probably introduced by Constantine’s side kick, the “father of Christian history,” Eusebius who said…"

Thinker's point is also valid.

Generally, speaking from personal experience and my own viewpoint, we come down to Earth as messengers because we are all volunteers. If that task requires us to risk sacrificing ourselves, many will take on that price willingly. THis is not an authority based system where you are "sent" by some mission president (that sometimes works for satanic karma prisons).

That does not mean everyone on Earth is a volunteer at the soul and pre/post life level. Some of them are actually exiles and prisoners and the condemned. And they feel like that because that is valid, for them.

So yes, gods do send down messengers and avatars, that are essentially them in physical form or a child/split version of themselves.

THis is not sacrificing another, but sacrificing yourself, perhaps.

However, the problem with too much martyrdom is that satan is run on this matrix fuel of self sacrifice. If you want to sacrifice yourself, satan's baal is ready to receive your sacrifice, as your god now.

This is why humanity was not saved simply because of Christ based churches. People see these failures and they start believing god does not exist or is vindictive. Well there are vindictive fake gods surely. But there are also gods that John perceives, the self sacrificing kindly hearted ones.

[John Tavner]

Well now that you focus on it, light can be shed on it. Why wouldn’t I at least mention such an evil passed off as good?

Why would anyone think human sacrifice is godly?
God demands the killing of an innocent person to be appeased?

And scapegoating? Shifting responsibility to make an innocent one suffer - is the epitome of evil.

These are evil that were probably introduced by Constantine’s side kick, the “father of Christian history,” Eusebius who said…

“It is an act of virtue to deceive & lie, when by such means the interest of the church might be promoted.”
&
“It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.”

God sacrifice, not human I suppose if you don't believe in the divinity of Christ and that He is Lord, then it makes sense why you believe the way you do. As He said "I lay down my life no one takes it from me" If that is scape goating, then I guess I"m a scape goater and a proud believer of a God who came down in the flesh to give His life so that I might live. Imagine that. Someone who is willing to lay down their life so others might live, being a perfect being who lived as a human, though they were God - using Satan's own methods against him in order to bring about light- setting hte example that we ought not to love our own life even unto death. Also, technically God made Him what you would call a "scapegoat" ( though He was divine) because He chose what happened though the term is loaded the way you use it - Jesus chose to do so, God accepted His sacrifice- man didn't do anything - man just acted like men do when God isn't around - they seek to destroy light and hide their darkness proclaiming it as light - its why the "hour of darkness had come" I didn't place Jesus on the Cross. Without God, without Light, without love, we would all place Jesus on the Cross - it is just how fallen humanity is- the only reason we have desire to do Good is because God is wooing us constantly - without God's wooing we would devolve into less than animals. It is incredible the love of God though, that He gave His life to show us who we can be who we really are and the potential we have - He flipped the switch on darkness - 3 days there was "darkness" after 3 days, the light returned and began to fill the whole world- as Jesus was raised from the dead- demonstrating His justification and that Hell could not hold Him, He came before the Father pleading on our behalf placing His blood on the mercy seat and a great and final sacrifice so that His rightoeusness will be imputed upon us if we believe. So the question is really again- do you believe you are righteous because of Christ? I just believe God- also why Jesus said "forgiven them Father, they don't know what they are doing" They were in darkness, they had no idea what was going on- they just knew they hated light- as we would had God not been wooing humanity all along.

[Being There]

"Do you believe in the cross of Christ ?"

"What does it mean to believe.
The true biblical belief requires action -
so if you truly believe that Christ died so that we may live,
it should not only bring you to your knees, but also bring you to your feet.
The cross is a gift, and it was paid for with blood."

The true meaning of the cross..

[Ymarsakar]

Snowden. Ballard. Assange
Gonzalo. All put on the cross by humans

I once wondered why not just delete humanity, then evil would cease. Apparently satan would still exist even without humans.

[Thinker]

… I guess I"m a scape goater and a proud believer of a God who came down in the flesh to give His life so that I might live… - Jesus chose to do so, God accepted His sacrifice- man didn't do anything - man just acted like men do when God isn't around -

… I didn't place Jesus on the Cross. Without God, without Light, without love, we would all place Jesus on the Cross

…He came before the Father pleading on our behalf placing His blood on the mercy seat and a great and final sacrifice so that His rightoeusness will be imputed upon us if we believe. So the question is really again- do you believe you are righteous because of Christ?…

THINK about it.
Why would God punish us for being as God created?
Why would God kick us when we’re down - punish us on top of the consequences of sin - which we all experience just like what goes up must come down - cause and effect.

How sick is it that people imagine their god requiring blood to be appeased!
In your mind - you did put Jesus up on a cross - & you keep doing so. Why? Because it sure as hell doesn’t make sense! It’s because everyone’s doing it - evil tradition of false gods.

Drink blood?
Eat a body?
Even pretending to do so is evil, as Jesus taught - as you think is as important to consider as actions - the higher law.
SICK! Evil. I don’t care if it’s established dogma - and all you need to do is say you believe and then “abracadabra!- you’re saved” - no - rather that’s the damning lie - that keeps people from taking responsibility and keeps them distracted from the true God. But look how many believe that lie - & how many suffer from it - all the more reason that wide is the gate - and many follow the massive herd into hell! And narrow is God’s way - and few find it.

At the very least, study the origins of the beliefs you claim. Learn how Eusebius justified lying in doctrine, councils voted on the nature of Jesus - so he changed from being human to god etc. If you truly worship the God of truth, then learn the truth!
viewtopic.php?t=52528

[nightlight]

… I guess I"m a scape goater and a proud believer of a God who came down in the flesh to give His life so that I might live… - Jesus chose to do so, God accepted His sacrifice- man didn't do anything - man just acted like men do when God isn't around -

… I didn't place Jesus on the Cross. Without God, without Light, without love, we would all place Jesus on the Cross

…He came before the Father pleading on our behalf placing His blood on the mercy seat and a great and final sacrifice so that His rightoeusness will be imputed upon us if we believe. So the question is really again- do you believe you are righteous because of Christ?…

THINK about it.
Why would God punish us for being as God created?
Why would God kick us when we’re down - punish us on top of the consequences of sin - which we all experience just like what goes up must come down - cause and effect.

How sick is it that people imagine their god requiring blood to be appeased!
In your mind - you did put Jesus up on a cross - & you keep doing so. Why? Because it sure as hell doesn’t make sense! It’s because everyone’s doing it - evil tradition of false gods.

Drink blood?
Eat a body?
Even pretending to do so is evil, as Jesus taught - as you think is as important to consider as actions - the higher law.
SICK! Evil. I don’t care if it’s established dogma - and all you need to do is say you believe and then “abracadabra!- you’re saved” - no - rather that’s the damning lie - that keeps people from taking responsibility and keeps them distracted from the true God. But look how many believe that lie - & how many suffer from it - all the more reason that wide is the gate - and many follow the massive herd into hell! And narrow is God’s way - and few find it.

At the very least, study the origins of the beliefs you claim. Learn how Eusebius justified lying in doctrine, councils voted on the nature of Jesus - so he changed from being human to god etc. If you truly worship the God of truth, then learn the truth!
viewtopic.php?t=52528

Lol Don't get it twisted lady... The vast majority of people believe what you do. I wonder why....."the universe made me perfectly imperfect." Blah blah

Is sacrificing yourself to save others good or bad?
If it's good, why wouldn't God require a perfect and eternal sacrifice? ... If God is good .... and there's no greater love than sacrificing your life for your brother....

If sacrificing yourself to save others is bad....... Oh wait.... it's not

You lie to yourself and claim your problem with Christianity is the "sacrifice"... But methinks that's not it.... Maybe it's because you're told that you are evil. THINK about it

[John Tavner]

… I guess I"m a scape goater and a proud believer of a God who came down in the flesh to give His life so that I might live… - Jesus chose to do so, God accepted His sacrifice- man didn't do anything - man just acted like men do when God isn't around -

… I didn't place Jesus on the Cross. Without God, without Light, without love, we would all place Jesus on the Cross

…He came before the Father pleading on our behalf placing His blood on the mercy seat and a great and final sacrifice so that His rightoeusness will be imputed upon us if we believe. So the question is really again- do you believe you are righteous because of Christ?…

THINK about it.
Why would God punish us for being as God created?
Why would God kick us when we’re down - punish us on top of the consequences of sin - which we all experience just like what goes up must come down - cause and effect.

How sick is it that people imagine their god requiring blood to be appeased!
In your mind - you did put Jesus up on a cross - & you keep doing so. Why? Because it sure as hell doesn’t make sense! It’s because everyone’s doing it - evil tradition of false gods.

Drink blood?
Eat a body?
Even pretending to do so is evil, as Jesus taught - as you think is as important to consider as actions - the higher law.
SICK! Evil. I don’t care if it’s established dogma - and all you need to do is say you believe and then “abracadabra!- you’re saved” - no - rather that’s the damning lie - that keeps people from taking responsibility and keeps them distracted from the true God. But look how many believe that lie - & how many suffer from it - all the more reason that wide is the gate - and many follow the massive herd into hell! And narrow is God’s way - and few find it.

At the very least, study the origins of the beliefs you claim. Learn how Eusebius justified lying in doctrine, councils voted on the nature of Jesus - so he changed from being human to god etc. If you truly worship the God of truth, then learn the truth!
viewtopic.php?t=52528

God didn't make you as you are. Otherwise you might as well embrace your selfishness. Embrace your hate, and jealousy- apparently that's how you think you were intended from the beginning. If you believe that God made you this way, then yield to all your hedonistic tendencies - dont seek to be better- because you were intended to be as you are. Otherwise you are fighting against the will of God (according to what I'm understanding you are saying).

Regardless, God IS NOT punishing you - literally that is the message of Jesus "I came not to condemn the world, but to save it, for the world was already in condemnation. Man was already punishing themselves by living in sin and selfishness. God is trying to save us from our "natural man" ways because He never INTENDED for us to be that in the first place.

Did God kick us out when we were down or is the fact that Adam literally hid himself from God and couldn't bear His presence what happened? Wonder if God kicked Adam from the Garden of Eden out of mercy rather than out of punishment. Adam no longer saw himself one with God- he left, felt embarassed and couldn't hang out with God. HE tried to hide his nakedness from God with leaves for goodness sake. The person He had been with for years, He runs from, because He all of a sudden saw Himself as separate from God - he no longer loved the way God does. In fact his first act as a human was first to not trust God and THEN to blame the woman for doing something he shouldn't have done in the first place (selfishness and self-preservation). Adam became a god unto himself. - God in His mercy clothed Him, God in His mercy told Him _Hey guy, this isn't forever, I need you to understand that you were made in my image- not in the image you just created for yourself where you are separate from me- I will show you how much I love you and how much you can return despite the fact that you feel you must hide yourself from me. God is so much bigger and awe inspiring than we understand- if you don't know God loves you and lose sight of that - a moment in His presence could be destruction.

No, without light and the SPirit, I would have put Him on the cross, but now I wouldn't because I have been made a new man, a new creation in Christ. You would have too -If there was no light and darkness only remained you would commit evil atrocities beyond what you understand. People who don't believe that about themselves have never searched themselves. Jesus was the light- He IS the Light- He is the Way, He is the Truth, HE is the Life. If Darkness were to come and there were not light- you would lead yourself to destruction. Thank God though, that Jesus gives man light- but eventually if man rejects the light long enough all that will fill them is darkness and then how great is that darkness. The Joy is that He died once for all. There is no more "putting Christ on the cross" it happened - one and done. He died "once for all." You fail to mention the fact that He was raised from the Dead too. Raised so that death no longer had a hold on Him- raised to sit at the right hand of God so that all man might be raised and understand death no longer has power over them either.

I don't care what Eusubius wrote - He has nothing to do with the New Testament - the New Testament was around before He was an influence in many writings. The New Testament and multiple scriptures speak of this. There are lots of liars in the world the fact is that truth is still truth even if it comes from a liars mouth.

Eat a body? So it is evil to eat in remembrance of the body that the Lord shed for me, eat and remember to be filled with the word of God as Jesus was, that man ought not to live by bread alone, That His word can flow through my belly as it did Jesus', to walk and realize I am the body of Christ, to suffer and pick up my cross like HE did, to be willing to shed my blood for my brother or sister? To remember to walk as He did and that we are one? That I am called to bless the lives of those around me as He did, to give my life as He did? Remember that Death no longer has hold on me and I am free because I too died to sin and am raised to life because of Him and death can not touch me again!

Drink His blood? It is evil to drink of wine or water or whatever representing the willingness to shed blood and suffer and forgive those around me? To forgive them even when they shed blood? To glory in the sanctification that I have received and continue to receive because of His mercy? That because He shed His lblood I have His Spirit in me - speaking better things than the blood of abel. To see others as cleansed as well, to not make harsh judgments before their time, because even though they don't see it they ahve the possiblity to become more!? IN fact it teaches me to love htem before because they are just blinded and "know not what htey do" though they shed blood. If you call that evil then I am guilty as charged of that "Evil" and we will see when I come before the Lord. But for me and the world, that is good, it is life and life more abundantly. To the Jew it is heresy and an offense and the gentile foolishness. I will gladly bear the shame of Christ - in it I am free.

[Thinker]

...I don't care what Eusubius wrote - He has nothing to do with the New Testament - the New Testament was around before He was an influence in many writings. The New Testament and multiple scriptures speak of this. There are lots of liars in the world the fact is that truth is still truth even if it comes from a liars mouth...

Why don’t you learn about it before dismissing it… because maybe YOUR beliefs are based on it without you knowing.

Constantine, Eusebius, and the Formulation of the New Testament Canon

“…There has been much speculation on the origins of the New Testament. Most likely, much of letters and books presented to us today in the Christian Bible were already circulating by the time the Council of Nicea was convened, at least in part. But modern research has unveiled that those manuscripts were tampered with quite a bit. Interpolations were inserted for political reasons in almost all of them. Why? It is my personal belief that Constantine ordered such a compilation in order to verify his new religion. And Eusebius may be his main culprit in helping to establish the historical evidence for it (more on this in a moment). Consider the quote below:

“…the earliest of the extant manuscripts [of the New Testament], it is true, do not date back beyond the middle of the fourth century AD.”

(Catholic Encyclopedia, op. cit., pp. 656-7).

The Catholic Encyclopedia testifies to the fact that the fourth century was the time that many of the earliest New Testament manuscripts we have were written. If this is true, then it’s very possible that many interpolations were added to further promulgate Constantine’s vision of a unified religion during this time…”
https://www.spiritofthescripture.com/id ... canon.html

[John Tavner]

...I don't care what Eusubius wrote - He has nothing to do with the New Testament - the New Testament was around before He was an influence in many writings. The New Testament and multiple scriptures speak of this. There are lots of liars in the world the fact is that truth is still truth even if it comes from a liars mouth...

Why don’t you learn about it before dismissing it… because maybe YOUR beliefs are based on it without you knowing.

Constantine, Eusebius, and the Formulation of the New Testament Canon

“…There has been much speculation on the origins of the New Testament. Most likely, much of letters and books presented to us today in the Christian Bible were already circulating by the time the Council of Nicea was convened, at least in part. But modern research has unveiled that those manuscripts were tampered with quite a bit. Interpolations were inserted for political reasons in almost all of them. Why? It is my personal belief that Constantine ordered such a compilation in order to verify his new religion. And Eusebius may be his main culprit in helping to establish the historical evidence for it (more on this in a moment). Consider the quote below:

“…the earliest of the extant manuscripts [of the New Testament], it is true, do not date back beyond the middle of the fourth century AD.”

(Catholic Encyclopedia, op. cit., pp. 656-7).

The Catholic Encyclopedia testifies to the fact that the fourth century was the time that many of the earliest New Testament manuscripts we have were written. If this is true, then it’s very possible that many interpolations were added to further promulgate Constantine’s vision of a unified religion during this time…”
https://www.spiritofthescripture.com/id ... canon.html

And many other scholars reject that theory. Problem is they are finding writings of new Testament scripture in other languages including Hebrew which demonstrate things really weren't changed like you say, but Hey, I guess maybe I haven't "learned anything."

[Shawn Henry]

And scapegoating? Shifting responsibility to make an innocent one suffer - is the epitome of evil.

Prophets acting as intercessors is throughout the OT. It is a very biblical principle. Leviticus 16, I believe, is a prophecy of the latter days.

A prophet having the sins of the people placed upon him saves his people from destruction and it affords the one making the sacrifice to learn to be more like Jesus.

[blitzinstripes]

D&C 130:3

John 14:23—The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.

[FrankOne]

God is ALL the life within you. He is your life. You don't have a life, he has YOUR life in his hands and gives it freely, forever.

consider a robot running on electricity. The robot goes around as programmed , doing his chores when a robot mechanic shows up and says, you are just a robot, the life within you is the power, it's called electricity. When you learn to wield the electricity, then you'll realize the nature of your life.

I just had a great discussion on this subject with a guy that works on projects involving energy etc that "don't exist." and yah, he really does.

I had been considering that the life/love of God within us is not only life giving, but it carries unlimited data, like wifi does. I thought I was being brilliant when he said "there have been some that have tackled that subject and even written treatises on it" . My ego was deflated , which also created a deeper certainty that it's true.

the 'electricity' that runs your soul is God. The end goal is to take off your bushel and let it shine through unimpeded. That life is conscious (God) and is waiting for you to understand and receive .

likely my favorite scripture of any book which set my feet on the path:

61 Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

62 And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time.

NOTE:

v 61. All power. All knowledge. All life. inside you . "Streaming" within you , right now. not in the sky, not in heaven, not sitting on a cloud. Inside you. So...where are we to look? to the sky? to heaven?

see v 62. THIS is the plan of salvation. see previous verses for the full commandment of God to Adam to teach these things (named as the plan of salvation) to his children. If you read the other verses, Be aware that this commandment is NOT taught today. Why?

[nightlight]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Fn7Bd2/

What she said

[JuneBug12000]

Why would anyone think human sacrifice is godly?
God demands the killing of an innocent person to be appeased?

All people die. Innocent or Evil. And truthfully, it is God who kills each one of us, just as He made us live.

So while to may be wicked for man to take another man's life, how can it be wicked for God, since that was always His plan and He has the authority to do so?

[Ymarsakar]

And scapegoating? Shifting responsibility to make an innocent one suffer - is the epitome of evil.

Prophets acting as intercessors is throughout the OT. It is a very biblical principle. Leviticus 16, I believe, is a prophecy of the latter days.

A prophet having the sins of the people placed upon him saves his people from destruction and it affords the one making the sacrifice to learn to be more like Jesus.

viewtopic.php?t=72047

These selections are taken from 2nd and 3rd Nephi, mostly.

So far, they generally don't place the sins of the people on themselves. They warn the people and if the people ignore the warnings, bad stuff happens. That is later then called "prophecy" and the people who uttered it, prophets. Although prophets are not known by their hometowns or respected in their time. Samuel was not. Jeshua had issues as well. John definitely had issues. The apostles and disciples later, also had issues.

So it is more like satan using sins to drag people's souls down and closer to satan's own. By making people fulfill the negative portions of the warnings.

In which example has a messenger or disciple saved his people from destruction by placing their sins upon himself? Jeshua's example led to the destruction of the 2nd temple and the crucifixion of most rebels from Judea. Nor did the disciples do any better, for Rome conquered the world and put Christianity under "tax free" bondage, aka autocephalous authority.

It seems much more likely that human authors in the bible incorrectly interpreted the sequence of events to be God's Own salvation, interpolating Satan's Own psyops on top of God's plan of salvation. This mirrors what is going on in today's world, where people don't know which operation is by Satan's Own, which are CIA psy ops, and which are god's own operations. The bible authors weren't any better at figuring it out than we are.

Leviticus has been re-interpreted, interpolated, and altered by the Masoretic Jews. Scholars know for a fact that Deuteronomy 32 was altered by the Masoretes due to the Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint; the masoretic text forms the basis for the translation of the Latin and King James translations.

One of the only texts to judge what ancient Hebrew beliefs were before the Babylonian Captivity and the Talmud is ironically, the Book of Mormon. A remnant was saved from Babylon. Thus when looking at Hebrews pre Talmudic corruptions, the Nephites and Lamanites serve as a very useful source. Their thinking is the more accurate and the more original, before the Masoretic scribes changed the Torah and then later the Talmud was a bunch of babylonian re interpretations.

[John Tavner]

And scapegoating? Shifting responsibility to make an innocent one suffer - is the epitome of evil.

Prophets acting as intercessors is throughout the OT. It is a very biblical principle. Leviticus 16, I believe, is a prophecy of the latter days.

A prophet having the sins of the people placed upon him saves his people from destruction and it affords the one making the sacrifice to learn to be more like Jesus.

viewtopic.php?t=72047

These selections are taken from 2nd and 3rd Nephi, mostly.

So far, they generally don't place the sins of the people on themselves. They warn the people and if the people ignore the warnings, bad stuff happens. That is later then called "prophecy" and the people who uttered it, prophets. Although prophets are not known by their hometowns or respected in their time. Samuel was not. Jeshua had issues as well. John definitely had issues. The apostles and disciples later, also had issues.

So it is more like satan using sins to drag people's souls down and closer to satan's own. By making people fulfill the negative portions of the warnings.

In which example has a messenger or disciple saved his people from destruction by placing their sins upon himself? Jeshua's example led to the destruction of the 2nd temple and the crucifixion of most rebels from Judea. Nor did the disciples do any better, for Rome conquered the world and put Christianity under "tax free" bondage, aka autocephalous authority.

It seems much more likely that human authors in the bible incorrectly interpreted the sequence of events to be God's Own salvation, interpolating Satan's Own psyops on top of God's plan of salvation. This mirrors what is going on in today's world, where people don't know which operation is by Satan's Own, which are CIA psy ops, and which are god's own operations. The bible authors weren't any better at figuring it out than we are.

Leviticus has been re-interpreted, interpolated, and altered by the Masoretic Jews. Scholars know for a fact that Deuteronomy 32 was altered by the Masoretes due to the Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint; the masoretic text forms the basis for the translation of the Latin and King James translations.

One of the only texts to judge what ancient Hebrew beliefs were before the Babylonian Captivity and the Talmud is ironically, the Book of Mormon. A remnant was saved from Babylon. Thus when looking at Hebrews pre Talmudic corruptions, the Nephites and Lamanites serve as a very useful source. Their thinking is the more accurate and the more original, before the Masoretic scribes changed the Torah and then later the Talmud was a bunch of babylonian re interpretations.

I disagree- our perceptoin of God is hardly ever based off of scripture - it is based off of what others tell us. When you know God and have a clear conception of His character it is clear to see light from darkness. Why? You aren't looking for darkness in everything - you see the potential for light in all things. So when you do see darkness then you know it, and it is much more clear. What happens is people try to judge too much. "15To the pure, all things are pure; but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Indeed, both their minds and their consciences are defiled." Titus 1:15

Matt 6: 22“The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is [g]good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eye is [h]bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! If you want to see darkness clear, then you have to focus on the light otherwise you will be filled with darkness and think all things are dark. Thus in order to know truth, to know light - one must seek and focus on the light- it disperses darkness.

It is when people have a twisted view of God that they have a hard time seeing- even if they are trying to discern- inevitably they end up focusing on darkness more than light unless they give it all up and just decide to live for Him.

[Thinker]

Impressive mental gymnastics.
How else could anyone justify human sacrifice and scapegoating as godly?

[Shawn Henry]

In which example has a messenger or disciple saved his people from destruction by placing their sins upon himself?

Isaiah, Hezekiah, Moses, and JS all acted as intercessors and stopped judgment from coming upon their peoples. Generally, prophets do not, but acting as an intercessor is a rare blessing and an honor. Being an intercessory prophet is far better than being a prophet.

[Shawn Henry]

Impressive mental gymnastics.
How else could anyone justify human sacrifice and scapegoating as godly?

Do you even know what scapegoating is? The scapegoat is not killed.

So, when you're completely ignorant of the OT, someone who understands it is employing 'mental gymnastics'. Wouldn't it be far more logical for you to pick up a topic and study it and then make an assessment?

First off, the concept of a scapegoat is not about human sacrifice. The goat and the bullock being sacrificed is not about human sacrifice. The goat and the bullock being sacrificed on the alter is symbolic of two prophets being killed by the wicked, just as Jesus was killed by the wicked. He was not placed on an actual altar. The ritual is simply symbolic of death that is to come.

Secondly, these OT rituals are symbolic foreshadowings of what is to come. Jesus being killed being the most obvious. Leviticus 16 is a ritual that foretells of two goats who are equal but will have lots drawn to see which one is killed and which one is driven out. The one to be killed is killed with a bullock (likely meaning another prophet) and the other goat (or prophet) has the sins of Israel placed upon it and is driven off into the wilderness.

The martydom of Joseph and Hyrum and Sidney being driven off from the church is a literal fulfillment of this chapter.