Deviations From The Original Truths - Part 3

[CaptainM]

Feeling a need to defend the original truth of September 22, 1827 - April 5, 1829, I will be stating herein some discussion points in piecemeal fashion. Rather than present all 30 plus at once, this will give anyone interested opportunity to absorb and research the ideas and comments if interested. These points are mainly from a gentleman named Richard Bauman taken from his series entitled "What Happened To The Church". (See https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YdrywgxUo ... 1hbg%3D%3D)

Like most documentaries I add that the views of the author do not necessarily represent my views. However, I believe he demonstrates great scholarship.

Many of the Book of Mormon references are given as the RLDS version.

I quote:

...the following documented statements should bring the reader to the realization that ... Joseph Smith indeed "yielded to the persuasions of men". Consequently in just a very short time, the truths of the unchangeable God became so obscured that those whose job it was to bring forth and establish the truth became the enemy by concealing the truth!

8. Dec. 1830 Joseph receives a "revelation" on the prophecy of Enoch. This is RLDS sec. 36 and also "Inspired Version" Genesis 7:1-78. Note: in this experience the Lord stood before Enoch face to face and showed him the world for many generations, even all the inhabitants, even all the nations of the earth, even all things to the end of the world. However, we read in the book of Ether of a similar experience (see ether1:69-92), and verse 79 says "and never have I shewed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast". and the brother ofJareds' experience described in Ether took place about one thousand five hundred years after the supposed experience of Enoch! If the Lord had "never" done this before, how could Enoch have had this experience 1500 years earlier! Take your choice: Which one do you believe?

How is it possible that Joseph could recieve this "revelation" on Enoch, and it could be so contradictory to the Book of Mormon? Remember, the legend of Enoch was written and circulated amongst the Masons since 1802!

9. Parley Pratt and others stayed in Independence, Missouri over the winter of 1830-1831,
and set upbusinesses. Note how this relates to item # 13.

10. Feb. 4, 1831 The first "Bishop" is called. "Bishop" does not exist as a word, much less a
priesthood office, in the Book of Mormon. This "Bishop" was an elder, and remained so until
there was a mass ordination service June 3, 1831 "for high priests." (See RLDS D&C
41:3c)

Was Joseph being "persuaded" by Sidney Rigdon? David Whitmer, in An Address p. 35 says:
"Rigdon was a thorough Bible scholar, a man of fine education, and a powerful orator. He
soon worked him self deep into Brother Josephs affections, and had more influence over him
than any other man living. He was Brother Joseph's private counsellor, and his most
intimate friend and brother for some time after they met. Brother Joseph rejoiced,
believing that the Lord had sent to him this great and mighty man Sydney Rigdon, to help him
in the work. Poor Brother Joseph! He was mistaken about this, and likewise all of the
brethren were mistaken; for we thought at that time just as Brother Joseph did about it.
But alas! In a few years we found out different. Sydney Rigdon was the cause of almost all
the errors which were introduced while he was in the church.

Are you ready for Part 4?

[Good & Global]

Are you ready for Part 4?

Bring it on!

People can agree, disagree or help clarify adding their own insights - that is point of having a forum.

[Robin Hood]

Feeling a need to defend the original truth of September 22, 1827 - April 5, 1829, I will be stating herein some discussion points in piecemeal fashion. Rather than present all 30 plus at once, this will give anyone interested opportunity to absorb and research the ideas and comments if interested. These points are mainly from a gentleman named Richard Bauman taken from his series entitled "What Happened To The Church". (See https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YdrywgxUo ... 1hbg%3D%3D)

Like most documentaries I add that the views of the author do not necessarily represent my views. However, I believe he demonstrates great scholarship.

Many of the Book of Mormon references are given as the RLDS version.

I quote:

...the following documented statements should bring the reader to the realization that ... Joseph Smith indeed "yielded to the persuasions of men". Consequently in just a very short time, the truths of the unchangeable God became so obscured that those whose job it was to bring forth and establish the truth became the enemy by concealing the truth!

8. Dec. 1830 Joseph receives a "revelation" on the prophecy of Enoch. This is RLDS sec. 36 and also "Inspired Version" Genesis 7:1-78. Note: in this experience the Lord stood before Enoch face to face and showed him the world for many generations, even all the inhabitants, even all the nations of the earth, even all things to the end of the world. However, we read in the book of Ether of a similar experience (see ether1:69-92), and verse 79 says "and never have I shewed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast". and the brother ofJareds' experience described in Ether took place about one thousand five hundred years after the supposed experience of Enoch! If the Lord had "never" done this before, how could Enoch have had this experience 1500 years earlier! Take your choice: Which one do you believe?

How is it possible that Joseph could recieve this "revelation" on Enoch, and it could be so contradictory to the Book of Mormon? Remember, the legend of Enoch was written and circulated amongst the Masons since 1802!

9. Parley Pratt and others stayed in Independence, Missouri over the winter of 1830-1831,
and set upbusinesses. Note how this relates to item # 13.

10. Feb. 4, 1831 The first "Bishop" is called. "Bishop" does not exist as a word, much less a
priesthood office, in the Book of Mormon. This "Bishop" was an elder, and remained so until
there was a mass ordination service June 3, 1831 "for high priests." (See RLDS D&C
41:3c)

Was Joseph being "persuaded" by Sidney Rigdon? David Whitmer, in An Address p. 35 says:
"Rigdon was a thorough Bible scholar, a man of fine education, and a powerful orator. He
soon worked him self deep into Brother Josephs affections, and had more influence over him
than any other man living. He was Brother Joseph's private counsellor, and his most
intimate friend and brother for some time after they met. Brother Joseph rejoiced,
believing that the Lord had sent to him this great and mighty man Sydney Rigdon, to help him
in the work. Poor Brother Joseph! He was mistaken about this, and likewise all of the
brethren were mistaken; for we thought at that time just as Brother Joseph did about it.
But alas! In a few years we found out different. Sydney Rigdon was the cause of almost all
the errors which were introduced while he was in the church.

Are you ready for Part 4?

The Enoch/Brother of Jared issue isn't too difficult really. We're dealing with two different personages. Perhaps Jehovah and Michael.

[Shawn Henry]

The Enoch/Brother of Jared issue isn't too difficult really. We're dealing with two different personages. Perhaps Jehovah and Michael.

So, like the brother of Jared saw the real God and Enoch saw a different god?

There actually is a big discrepancy here. Is this why Joseph never moved to establish the PoGP as canon? Is it why there are no witnesses for this work?

It's a work that not even the originator will testify of, and it contains apparent contradictions. At what point is it fair to ask questions?

[Luke]

8. Dec. 1830 Joseph receives a "revelation" on the prophecy of Enoch. This is RLDS sec. 36 and also "Inspired Version" Genesis 7:1-78. Note: in this experience the Lord stood before Enoch face to face and showed him the world for many generations, even all the inhabitants, even all the nations of the earth, even all things to the end of the world. However, we read in the book of Ether of a similar experience (see ether1:69-92), and verse 79 says "and never have I shewed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast". and the brother ofJareds' experience described in Ether took place about one thousand five hundred years after the supposed experience of Enoch! If the Lord had "never" done this before, how could Enoch have had this experience 1500 years earlier! Take your choice: Which one do you believe?

“Certainly Heloheim, & Jehovah stands before Adam, or else I am very much mistaken. Then 1st Heloheim 2d Jehovah, 3d Michial-Adam, 4th Jesus-Christ, Our Elder Brother, in the other World from whence our spirits came * * * Then Who is Jehovah.? The only begoton son of, Heloheim, on Jehovas world—by whomb This World was made * * * Heloheim—made This world, by the word of his power—Jehova and Michial to help him. after which in the Meridian of Time and Jesus The 4th person. our Elder Brother” (Edward Stevenson, Journal, 28 February 1896, CHL)

According to the understanding of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and co. there were four Gods who were primarily involved in the creation of the world: Eloheim, Jehovah, Michael, Jesus.

So you have other Gods who could have appeared to Enoch and others. Michael or Adam our Father in Heaven being the next up the chain and so the one who would be making appearances, but since He was on earth at that time, Jehovah is the likely candidate.

Obviously you don’t agree, but I’m just explaining it how the early Saints and how Fundamentalists today saw/see it.

[Luke]

The Enoch/Brother of Jared issue isn't too difficult really. We're dealing with two different personages. Perhaps Jehovah and Michael.

So, like the brother of Jared saw the real God and Enoch saw a different god?

There actually is a big discrepancy here. Is this why Joseph never moved to establish the PoGP as canon? Is it why there are no witnesses for this work?

It's a work that not even the originator will testify of, and it contains apparent contradictions. At what point is it fair to ask questions?

They only started compiling materials for what became the Pearl of Great Price after Joseph was dead.

And “canon” is completely meaningless.

[Shawn Henry]

They only started compiling materials for what became the Pearl of Great Price after Joseph was dead.

And “canon” is completely meaningless.

Correct, "they", not Joseph. Joseph omitted anything Bible related in 1835 and 1844. The revealer of the work never had the opportunity to testify of it.

Canon is only meaningless in that it is not how the scriptures describe the process. To be true to the scriptures, every word will be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses, that's God pattern. There are no witnesses for the PoGP.