Elder Holland - "The issue is chastity. The issue is not gender."

[spiritMan]

Yeah, I dare the Church to challenge people on that. You will see mass abandonment. The exact same as happened to the RLDS Church when they began to introduce in-your-face doctrines.

And what exactly is your legit scriptural case for same sex marriage?
*Edit* ok I read your response, and no there is no scriptural basis for homosexual marriage.

IMO that analysis was woefully bad. Wow silly actually.

Especially considering this subject is almost non-existence in the scriptures compared to other things.

SMH.

The Scriptures talk about it plenty; the Didache talked about it, the early Church fathers talked about it . . .SMH . . .what world do you THINK Christianity arose in????

My goodness, what a bunch of scripturally illiterate fools running around proclaiming nonsense like these. . . .

[spiritMan]

After all the Covid experts we have endured do you think it’s now wise to listen to linguistic experts on the topic of biology? The expert class has become a farce in so many ways.

That is fair. What justification scriptural or otherwise would you use to say that homosexuality is wrong?
Most would use Sodom and Gomorrah, however we know that they were cursed for inhospitality and not caring for the poor. Today we ignore that and associate it with homosexuality instead.

What do you think "coming in through the 'back' door" is, that is described in the scriptures? It is inhospitality.

My goodness dude, you are scripturally illiterate . . .but probably listen to the likes of Dan McClennan....

[spiritMan]

Yeah, I dare the Church to challenge people on that. You will see mass abandonment. The exact same as happened to the RLDS Church when they began to introduce in-your-face doctrines.

And what exactly is your legit scriptural case for same sex marriage?
*Edit* ok I read your response, and no there is no scriptural basis for homosexual marriage.

IMO that analysis was woefully bad. Wow silly actually.

I understand the apprehension. As I said, I personally am not really sure. Of course, we have some scriptures that we interpret a certain way to say a certain thing about homosexuality. However, as we all know scriptures can be misinterpreted.

It makes sense to me that men and women should pair together. However, I also think that if someone is born to have natural desires towards the same sex then acting upon those is in a different category than other "sins".

Anyways, I am certainly open to other interpretations and haven't drawn any lines in the sand. Especially considering this subject is almost non-existence in the scriptures compared to other things.

The Scriptures also don't talk a whole lot about things like incest or bestiality. Jesus didn't talk about it! Right? Right?

So now this new-fangled scripturally illiterate class like yourself who proclaims same-sex sex is "almost non-existent" in Scriptures is going to start saying the same thing about incest and bestiality correct?

Are you ideologically consistent in your arguments that you will now say "it's okay for bestiality and incest" or are you a tool used by evil men, or an evil individual yourself advocating for Satan?

[Telavian]

[The Scriptures also don't talk a whole lot about things like incest or bestiality. Jesus didn't talk about it! Right? Right?

So now this new-fangled scripturally illiterate class like yourself who proclaims same-sex sex is "almost non-existent" in Scriptures is going to start saying the same thing about incest and bestiality correct?

Are you ideologically consistent in your arguments that you will now say "it's okay for bestiality and incest" or are you a tool used by evil men, or an evil individual yourself advocating for Satan?

I am not sure why you feel the need to verbally attack me in this post and your others. Are you upset that your argument has no solid foundation?

You are equating incest and bestiality with 2 adults who love each other and fully consent to their interaction? Why would you make such a wildly illogical comparison?

[Telavian]

What do you think "coming in through the 'back' door" is, that is described in the scriptures? It is inhospitality.

My goodness dude, you are scripturally illiterate . . .but probably listen to the likes of Dan McClennan....

What was the sin of Sodom? Today we claim it was homosexuality.
However, Ezekiel begs to differ.
"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me; therefore I took them away, as I saw good."
Ezekiel 16:49-50

I am not advocating for homosexuality. However, the bible describes many things as being abominable such as making idols (Deut 27:15), sacrificing imperfect animals (Deut 17:1), and eating pigs (Deut 14:3-8). Therefore when you have your morning bacon then you are committing and abomination in God's eyes.

Who is greater in God's eyes?
1. Practicing homosexuals that waste and wear out their lives in the service of others
2. Heterosexuals who spend their lives doing meaningless things.

[mudflap]

This assumption is incorrect.

The endowment spells it out even clearer with the 2019 and 2023 revisions.

I will wait for the 2030 revision that will settle all arguments.

I was expecting that to come from Nelson by now but alas it will have to be Oaks or more likely Bednar.

Can we still be sealed to the earth if we go through the full climate repentance process?

Our works that we do on earth, we will have to account to God for them in heaven. Be they good or bad.

While it is true that the Earth is suffering, it has zero to do with how much carbon or methane or any greenhouse gas is put in the air. Human contribution to that is infinitesimally small.

What does make the earth cry, groan, or revolt?

The sheer wickedness of humanity on the Earth.

We see this in Moses 7 when the earth is seen as crying and moaning due to all manner of wickedness that was upon her. Similar scripts that have been pulled such as the Book of Enoch and the Qumran Book of Giants also speak of this, and specifically call out the violence, murder, and sexual deviancy (licentiousness) as causes of the Earth groaning and moaning.

If there is any repentance that needs to be done, (and there is!) it has nothing to do with any of the goals relating to fighting back climate change as the world sees it. It has to do with performing a correct teshuvah, a correct taubah, a correct metanoia, and forsake those things that cause sadness in the world.

agreed.

For those who would like to read more about "sins against the earth", you can see this thread: viewtopic.php?p=1358715#p1358715

[spiritMan]

[The Scriptures also don't talk a whole lot about things like incest or bestiality. Jesus didn't talk about it! Right? Right?

So now this new-fangled scripturally illiterate class like yourself who proclaims same-sex sex is "almost non-existent" in Scriptures is going to start saying the same thing about incest and bestiality correct?

Are you ideologically consistent in your arguments that you will now say "it's okay for bestiality and incest" or are you a tool used by evil men, or an evil individual yourself advocating for Satan?

I am not sure why you feel the need to verbally attack me in this post and your others. Are you upset that your argument has no solid foundation?

You are equating incest and bestiality with 2 adults who love each other and fully consent to their interaction? Why would you make such a wildly illogical comparison?

ROFLOL!!!!!

You are the one who is scripturally illiterate.

Why would I make that comparison?

Oh, I don't know . . .maybe b/c God does!!! Considering the verse about prohibition on bestiality and incest are the VERY NEXT VERSE AFTER don't have same-sex sex.
----------
Leviticus 18
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
-------------

Yes, you proved my point. You are either evil or scripturally illiterate.

[spiritMan]

What do you think "coming in through the 'back' door" is, that is described in the scriptures? It is inhospitality.

My goodness dude, you are scripturally illiterate . . .but probably listen to the likes of Dan McClennan....

What was the sin of Sodom? Today we claim it was homosexuality.
However, Ezekiel begs to differ.
"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me; therefore I took them away, as I saw good."
Ezekiel 16:49-50

I am not advocating for homosexuality. However, the bible describes many things as being abominable such as making idols (Deut 27:15), sacrificing imperfect animals (Deut 17:1), and eating pigs (Deut 14:3-8). Therefore when you have your morning bacon then you are committing and abomination in God's eyes.

Who is greater in God's eyes?
1. Practicing homosexuals that waste and wear out their lives in the service of others
2. Heterosexuals who spend their lives doing meaningless things.

Quit the crap "I'm not advocating for xxxxx", mealy mouthed BS.

Yes you are.

"with 2 adults who love each other and fully consent to their interaction? Why would you make such a wildly illogical comparison?"

Go take your piped piper, smooth talking, woke, "it's all good it's just 2 adults who 'love' each other" evil, wicked, putrid doctrine someplace else.

It's pretty obvious to anyone with eyes to see and hears to hear where that deviant, immoral, peverse teaching leads to. At this point, you are advocating for it-so good luck on promoting disease, death, sin, wicked, evil, perverse immorality!

[spiritMan]

What do you think "coming in through the 'back' door" is, that is described in the scriptures? It is inhospitality.

My goodness dude, you are scripturally illiterate . . .but probably listen to the likes of Dan McClennan....

Who is greater in God's eyes?
1. Practicing homosexuals that waste and wear out their lives in the service of others
2. Heterosexuals who spend their lives doing meaningless things.

Ah, yes the great smooth talking BS comparisons.

The homosexuals are so awesome and loving and great and wonderful.
The heterosexuals just waste away their lives.

Go take your BS "I'm not advocating for homosexuality" somewhere else. You absolutely ARE advocating for it.

Who is greater? For Pete's sake, what are you like 5? This is the insane scripturally bankrupt and stupid doctrine you get from scripturally and doctrinally illiterate individuals trying to be theologians.

Who is greater? SMH . . .what an insanely dumb question and anyone who has any bit of scriptural/doctrinal knowledge would know that . . .

But of course you probably know that already and just use these types of questions to dupe others to go along with your wickedness.

[Telavian]

But of course you probably know that already and just use these types of questions to dupe others to go along with your wickedness.

I am always amazed when people take the approach of bullying someone into compliance.

They ignore all reasoning in their pursuit of superiority, check.
They never share a logical coherent argument, check.
They attack the other person and belittle them, check.
They rely on assumed moral superiority, check.
They attack the other person relentlessly, check.
They are deeply insecure personally, check.

[blitzinstripes]

[The Scriptures also don't talk a whole lot about things like incest or bestiality. Jesus didn't talk about it! Right? Right?

So now this new-fangled scripturally illiterate class like yourself who proclaims same-sex sex is "almost non-existent" in Scriptures is going to start saying the same thing about incest and bestiality correct?

Are you ideologically consistent in your arguments that you will now say "it's okay for bestiality and incest" or are you a tool used by evil men, or an evil individual yourself advocating for Satan?

I am not sure why you feel the need to verbally attack me in this post and your others. Are you upset that your argument has no solid foundation?

You are equating incest and bestiality with 2 adults who love each other and fully consent to their interaction? Why would you make such a wildly illogical comparison?

Love or lust? Unnatural is unnatural. If you have an issue with the "natural use of the man and woman", take it up with God. But don't sit here and gaslight, because I believe you DO know better.

[Ymarsakar]

I detect demonic spirits. Dont give em hosts to inhabit. Yall know better

[John Tavner]

It all comes down to identity. Is our identity is our fallen nature or in the Nature of the God of Isaac, Abraham and Jacob- the nature of Jesus Christ?

Put another way - is our identity in our sex life? hhouldn't be. We are called to be in the image of God - it is the image we were created in. God created in His image Male and female. For what purpose? To continue to propogate His image. What happened though, Satan through a wrench in it , deceived Eve and Adam transgressed. They lost the image of God, even though they were created for that image, they became gods unto themselves- fallen, not understanding anymore their created value, because they cut themselves off from God- they ran from Him when they should have run to Him. They showed God that they no longer could remain in His presence - so God made clothes for htem, to cover them so they would eventually realize that they no longer needed to separate themselves from God, but could be one again. So what does this have to do with Homosexuality? Man and Woman are to be one with God and then create more of the image of God in the world, to come together in Union as they are to be in Union with God and create life. If it does not create life it is not of God. Two dudes and two girls can not create life. One might argue, "yeah but some women or men can't have kids" I would respond... that is because they are in a fallen world, but their created intent was to have children in the image of God, to propagate teh earth with the seed of God as His Sons and Daughters. Homosexual relationships - can not produce life. Yes, the loving of someone is really good if it is love, but marriages purpose even from the beginning of time was to create life in unity with hte other person. When we "marry" God we are given life or new breath i.e born again.

Homosexuality actually prevents this from happening. The person's identity becomes another person rather than God. It happens in heterosexual marriages as well. So as they identify themselves as Homosexuals because they "love" (lust) after the opposite sex rather than identify with God and "deny themselves, pick up their cross daily, and Follow Jesus Christ" they demonstrate their own deception - equally this occurs amongst "heterosexual" couples as well. They also identify themselves by their sex life. They do no understand their created purpose and value and twist it for gain. We've all had those views. Many of us still have that view. Satan destroys the proper view by causing us to think lust is love. When Love "seeks not after its own." Homosexuality is a symptom of a much larger problem and not the cause of problems. It is a symptom of a society having "sought after their own to please themselves." Rather than seeking after God and to perpetuate His image. If one has the view of "I can't live without you" it probably means you are worshiping that person- it isn't healthy- nor is it God. The only one we can't live without is God. Now that obviously doesn't mean cast off your spouse, we are to submit and give our life to them in service as a representation of Jesus to us and us as the Bride. Our identity is in God and through God- and what HE did for us and the righteousness HE has given us, until we grasp that, we are all living in sin- and "none" is greater. It's like comparing punching someone to slapping in a relationship - they are both abusive and neither is God approved and unless we re-turn to God and have Him give us His mind and heart through Holy Spirit we will continue to think as a man- which hte wisdom of man leads to death.

Homosexual advocates are often unintentionally (maybe some intentionally) coming from the wrong perspective - because of the lies they've grown up with - that sex is important (it is) and all you do as a teenager is think about it (often true) but that is the natural man, the twisting. Now on to the natural man - the natural man is also about propogating its seed, so it is also "unnatural" for two people of the same sex to get to gether, because the idea is to continue life (albeit it has been twisted, because Satan is trying to make His own Kingdom here, but he doesn't mind more death, because he is the thief that steals, kills, and destroys- he just needs enough to maintain control it is selfish based kingdom) it isn't a God perspective it is selfish perspective. We are to be in God's Kingdom, (to deny ourselves and put on Christ) to establish His Kingdom here. Life isn't about pleasure, it is about coming into Union with God, and manifesting His love to the world and producing life after its own kind. A house divided can not stand.

[~ternal-tummim]

2 adults who love each other

Gays wear diapers.
Have to. Whole lives.
Did you know that?
Ravaged rear holes.
Wrecked immune mechs.
This is love now?

Do *you* do this
To one you *love*?
Loving? LOVING?!
Madness. Madness.

[FrankOne]

In the beginning god created man in his own image, chaste and unchaste created he them.

hm. It's interesting to read posts and then question whether I'm reading it in the way that it was intended.

One could read the above and draw the conclusion that the God that created man is both chaste and unchaste.

[~ternal-tummim]

is our identity in our sex life?
Life isn't about pleasure

So true, it.
So true.
Don’t “do it.”
Go do.

FA02C574-D534-4A56-9B2C-9B8E82BB06C9.jpeg (516.26 KiB) Viewed 115 times

https://twitter.com/_johnnygroyper/stat ... 3504062464

https://epgn.com/2023/08/14/creep-of-th ... entes/?amp

(Past statement a year ago:)
https://twitter.com/abughazalehkat/stat ... hazalehkat

[~ternal-tummim]

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[Shawn Henry]

You are either evil or scripturally illiterate.

I detect demonic spirits. Dont give em hosts to inhabit. Yall know better

Come on Y, spiritMan is just letting his true self shine.

[~ternal-tummim]

They are deeply insecure personally, check.

Now who’s attacking person’lly?
Mmm? Tell me bout your mother, T.
Psych diagnoses are bad prax
‘Levate debate: ideas to max.

Come follow me I’ll show you how:
Gay’s species death. Thus evil. Pow.
Gods Against Species Suicide:
Join GASS chamber! Fight anal pride!

43CF616A-4A8C-49B4-9A36-2636CD3FC230.jpeg (27.12 KiB) Viewed 87 times

[Lemarque]

What do you think "coming in through the 'back' door" is, that is described in the scriptures? It is inhospitality.

My goodness dude, you are scripturally illiterate . . .but probably listen to the likes of Dan McClennan....

What was the sin of Sodom? Today we claim it was homosexuality.
However, Ezekiel begs to differ.
"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me; therefore I took them away, as I saw good."
Ezekiel 16:49-50

First iniquity listed: Pride. Pride is gay. And the idleness of her and her daughters is probably referring to the fact the dudes weren't interested in them but in other dudes.

[Thinker]

... I am not sure how I feel about homosexuality. I think clearly there is a biological component, however I think all sexual deviations have a biological component. That in no way should justify the behavior though.

So, people who like to rape were born that way?
Same with pedofiles?

And free will?

[ransomme]

I have no idea what he even means by that.
Maybe he means that just like single sisters, those with same sex attraction can have eternal marriage (to someone of the opposite sex) after this life, in the millennium or in the celestial kingdom or whatever. If they keep themselves chaste here in this mortal life.

He said the blessings are the church's, come from the Church.

To me this is evil.

Besides we seek blessings from God not from a church

A Freudian slip.

Nah, I think this is their world view. They are all in. The Church is the source of their status, money, power, etc. So they need to promote the Church, I mean they wouldn't want to "present the gospel of Christ without charge, that [they] may not abuse [their] authority in the gospel." 1Cor 9:18

[Telavian]

So, people who like to rape were born that way?
Same with pedofiles?

And free will?

Maybe they were born that way. However, everyone has agency.
The Book of Mormon is clear though that God doesn't hold us as accountable for the "wicked traditions of our fathers".
You are only as accountable as your knowledge.

[spiritMan]

You are either evil or scripturally illiterate.

I detect demonic spirits. Dont give em hosts to inhabit. Yall know better

Come on Y, spiritMan is just letting his true self shine.

Lol okay. I call a spade a spade. Anyone who remotely advocates for homosexuality is either spiritually illiterate or evil.

That's said matter of factly.

[spiritMan]

But of course you probably know that already and just use these types of questions to dupe others to go along with your wickedness.

I am always amazed when people take the approach of bullying someone into compliance.

They ignore all reasoning in their pursuit of superiority, check.
They never share a logical coherent argument, check.
They attack the other person and belittle them, check.
They rely on assumed moral superiority, check.
They attack the other person relentlessly, check.
They are deeply insecure personally, check.

And another characteristic of those who advocate for this crap like yourself is that they are passive aggressive.

You won't respond to me directly, you just make the "they" claim... Bc you are afraid to engage me directly bc you know I'm right.

I'll call you directly spiritually illiterate... bc you are, that's a fact.

You won't call me directly insecure bc the truth is all the things you passively call me are really about yourself.

My inner self is very calm and rational writing this and all that I have written.