LDS Freedom Forum

Socratic wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 8:03 pm

gkearney wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 9:16 pm Record removals are not what everyone thinks they are. Here is the test. Have your records “removed” the go to a location where you are not known. Present yourself as an investigator, when giving your information give your legal name, birth date and so on. You will, in a short time discover that the church record keeping system has retained a record of you and that in fact you have not been “forgotten” by the church otherwise they would treat you like any other person that had never been a member to begin with

That is true. When someone resigns their membership or is excommunicated, Church HQ transfers their records out of their ward and into a large general directory - I forget the exact name but it may be "Undefined."

It's called the "confidential file".

Robin Hood wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 1:45 pm

Socratic wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 8:03 pm

gkearney wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2023, 9:16 pm Record removals are not what everyone thinks they are. Here is the test. Have your records “removed” the go to a location where you are not known. Present yourself as an investigator, when giving your information give your legal name, birth date and so on. You will, in a short time discover that the church record keeping system has retained a record of you and that in fact you have not been “forgotten” by the church otherwise they would treat you like any other person that had never been a member to begin with

That is true. When someone resigns their membership or is excommunicated, Church HQ transfers their records out of their ward and into a large general directory - I forget the exact name but it may be "Undefined."

It's called the "confidential file".

Post covid storage facility for ex member files:

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑August 15th, 2023, 6:36 am The process for an adult to remove their records seems pretty straight forward. But what about a child? Do they need a parent signature on their request along with their own?

Or, can a family write a single letter requesting that all of their records be removed and include all signatures and pertinent data (e.g. member #s, etc)?

Asking for a friend.

On Friday night, I emailed my bishop, stake president and church records requesting my name and my kids names be removed from records. Today, my name is no longer associated with the church - I can't log in to LDS tools at all. My name is removed from the household in my husband's account, but our unbaptized kids names are still there.... so I guess I'll have to go the quit-mormon route for them. My husband is willing to go to a notary with me and sign their requests, I was just hoping to not have to go to all that trouble.

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑August 15th, 2023, 6:36 am The process for an adult to remove their records seems pretty straight forward. But what about a child? Do they need a parent signature on their request along with their own?

Or, can a family write a single letter requesting that all of their records be removed and include all signatures and pertinent data (e.g. member #s, etc)?

Asking for a friend.

On Friday night, I emailed my bishop, stake president and church records requesting my name and my kids names be removed from records. Today, my name is no longer associated with the church - I can't log in to LDS tools at all. My name is removed from the household in my husband's account, but our unbaptized kids names are still there.... so I guess I'll have to go the quit-mormon route for them. My husband is willing to go to a notary with me and sign their requests, I was just hoping to not have to go to all that trouble.

Good luck.

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑August 15th, 2023, 6:36 am The process for an adult to remove their records seems pretty straight forward. But what about a child? Do they need a parent signature on their request along with their own?

Or, can a family write a single letter requesting that all of their records be removed and include all signatures and pertinent data (e.g. member #s, etc)?

Asking for a friend.

On Friday night, I emailed my bishop, stake president and church records requesting my name and my kids names be removed from records. Today, my name is no longer associated with the church - I can't log in to LDS tools at all. My name is removed from the household in my husband's account, but our unbaptized kids names are still there.... so I guess I'll have to go the quit-mormon route for them. My husband is willing to go to a notary with me and sign their requests, I was just hoping to not have to go to all that trouble.

Wow, that was pretty fast for them.

As a parent, you should be able to ask your local leaders to have your kid's names removed as well.

I wish you well on your path forward.

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm On Friday night, I emailed my bishop, stake president and church records requesting my name and my kids names be removed from records. Today, my name is no longer associated with the church - I can't log in to LDS tools at all. My name is removed from the household in my husband's account, but our unbaptized kids names are still there.... so I guess I'll have to go the quit-mormon route for them. My husband is willing to go to a notary with me and sign their requests, I was just hoping to not have to go to all that trouble.

If they aren't baptized, they aren't members.

When I was in primary years ago (so things could have changed), once an unbaptized kid who had been blessed hit the age of 9 or 10, they were dropped from the records. Unless things have changed, all you have to do is wait - and ask for no contact if primary people contact you.

Kids who have never been baptized can't be resigned by their parents because those kids are not members. They are on the records by default because they were blessed.

Now if both parents had requested record removal, would those kids' names also be removed before they hit the age of 9 or 10? I don't know, but I would think so, because there would be no parent for them to be linked to.

(I really think the primary president told me it was age 9. I was a primary teacher several times.)

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 4:02 pm

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑August 15th, 2023, 6:36 am The process for an adult to remove their records seems pretty straight forward. But what about a child? Do they need a parent signature on their request along with their own?

Or, can a family write a single letter requesting that all of their records be removed and include all signatures and pertinent data (e.g. member #s, etc)?

Asking for a friend.

On Friday night, I emailed my bishop, stake president and church records requesting my name and my kids names be removed from records. Today, my name is no longer associated with the church - I can't log in to LDS tools at all. My name is removed from the household in my husband's account, but our unbaptized kids names are still there.... so I guess I'll have to go the quit-mormon route for them. My husband is willing to go to a notary with me and sign their requests, I was just hoping to not have to go to all that trouble.

Wow, that was pretty fast for them.

As a parent, you should be able to ask your local leaders to have your kid's names removed as well.

I wish you well on your path forward.

If both parents are members both parents have to sign off to remove kids though right? I would think her husband needs to at least email or call her local to remove baptized children's names.

Silver Pie wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 6:04 pm

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm On Friday night, I emailed my bishop, stake president and church records requesting my name and my kids names be removed from records. Today, my name is no longer associated with the church - I can't log in to LDS tools at all. My name is removed from the household in my husband's account, but our unbaptized kids names are still there.... so I guess I'll have to go the quit-mormon route for them. My husband is willing to go to a notary with me and sign their requests, I was just hoping to not have to go to all that trouble.

If they aren't baptized, they aren't members.

When I was in primary years ago (so things could have changed), once an unbaptized kid who had been blessed hit the age of 9 or 10, they were dropped from the records. Unless things have changed, all you have to do is wait - and ask for no contact if primary people contact you.

They have changed. From my experience as primary president, they remain on record at least through primary and into youth. I feel comfortably justified as their mother in requesting their names be dropped. I am sure they will honor my wish when my husband sends his signature in with mine.

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 6:48 pm They have changed. From my experience as primary president, they remain on record at least through primary and into youth. I feel comfortably justified as their mother in requesting their names be dropped. I am sure they will honor my wish when my husband sends his signature in with mine.

Wow! Want to count as many as possible I guess ("children of record").

In my opinion, you do have every right to ask that their names be dropped; I just thought you may have thought they were considered members and wanted their records removed. Looks like I was mistaken. My apologies.

They should honor your wishes if your husband is on board with it. They'll know you aren't a "rogue wife".

Silver Pie wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 6:54 pm

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 6:48 pm They have changed. From my experience as primary president, they remain on record at least through primary and into youth. I feel comfortably justified as their mother in requesting their names be dropped. I am sure they will honor my wish when my husband sends his signature in with mine.

Wow! Want to count as many as possible I guess ("children of record").

In my opinion, you do have every right to ask that their names be dropped; I just thought you may have thought they were considered members and wanted their records removed. Looks like I was mistaken. My apologies.

They should honor your wishes if your husband is on board with it. They'll know you aren't a "rogue wife".

I remember once seeing a child show up in ward records and listed as head of household. There were no parents at all under the household - just this one little boy and his sister. Turned out that their inactive mom had them blessed as babies, probably at the request of their grandparents, but then she died in a tragic accident and they went to live with their father who was not a member. It sort of left a yucky taste in my mouth to know names and address of little children can show up in a ward directory with no information for who their parents are. I was really bothered by that. Now, since making my feelings clear, I still have well-meaning but boundary-pushing primary teachers that ask if they can come visit with my FIVE year old. It feels very yucky to me.

Ado wrote: ↑September 27th, 2023, 10:08 am I remember once seeing a child show up in ward records and listed as head of household. There were no parents at all under the household - just this one little boy and his sister. Turned out that their inactive mom had them blessed as babies, probably at the request of their grandparents, but then she died in a tragic accident and they went to live with their father who was not a member. It sort of left a yucky taste in my mouth to know names and address of little children can show up in a ward directory with no information for who their parents are. I was really bothered by that. Now, since making my feelings clear, I still have well-meaning but boundary-pushing primary teachers that ask if they can come visit with my FIVE year old. It feels very yucky to me.

That is really creepy!

When I taught primary - it may have been Sunbeams - there was a little girl on my roll who rarely came. Being a conscientious faithful latter-day saint, I did all I could to bring her into activity. One day, her grandmother told me that she was active in her own ward, and only attended our ward when she visited Grandma.
I really wish #1) I had been told that a lot sooner and #2) that she had NOT been listed on my roll. No other visitors ever were - not in Primary, not in Sunday School, and not in Relief Society.

Your children should not be listed on Church rolls if you don't want them there!

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑August 15th, 2023, 6:36 am The process for an adult to remove their records seems pretty straight forward. But what about a child? Do they need a parent signature on their request along with their own?

Or, can a family write a single letter requesting that all of their records be removed and include all signatures and pertinent data (e.g. member #s, etc)?

Asking for a friend.

On Friday night, I emailed my bishop, stake president and church records requesting my name and my kids names be removed from records. Today, my name is no longer associated with the church - I can't log in to LDS tools at all. My name is removed from the household in my husband's account, but our unbaptized kids names are still there.... so I guess I'll have to go the quit-mormon route for them. My husband is willing to go to a notary with me and sign their requests, I was just hoping to not have to go to all that trouble.

BTW I'm guessing this hasn't been easy for you. Congrats for being able to do what you think is right. Did you write any post about how you finally came to the conclusion you did? I know I've seen posts about your questioning. I'm in a similar holding pattern to where you were.

Seed Starter wrote: ↑September 27th, 2023, 6:49 pm

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑August 15th, 2023, 6:36 am The process for an adult to remove their records seems pretty straight forward. But what about a child? Do they need a parent signature on their request along with their own?

Or, can a family write a single letter requesting that all of their records be removed and include all signatures and pertinent data (e.g. member #s, etc)?

Asking for a friend.

On Friday night, I emailed my bishop, stake president and church records requesting my name and my kids names be removed from records. Today, my name is no longer associated with the church - I can't log in to LDS tools at all. My name is removed from the household in my husband's account, but our unbaptized kids names are still there.... so I guess I'll have to go the quit-mormon route for them. My husband is willing to go to a notary with me and sign their requests, I was just hoping to not have to go to all that trouble.

BTW I'm guessing this hasn't been easy for you. Congrats for being able to do what you think is right. Did you write any post about how you finally came to the conclusion you did? I know I've seen posts about your questioning. I'm in a similar holding pattern to where you were.

Thank you! I don't know that it was one post - probably a culmination of them. I have been immersing myself in prayer and the scriptures, and just felt the need to finally get off the fence, in a manner of speaking! Prayers to you!

Niemand wrote: ↑September 16th, 2023, 4:26 am I know of a case where a couple hd their records removed without their consent or a church court.

They had said that they wished "no contact" some years ago and some bishop had their records deleted. Now they've become semi-active again and they're off the books.

The only records a Bishop has authority to delete are those of adults who were never baptized but had a record created at some point (usually a baby blessing).

Any other record removals have to go through Church headquarters through the Stake President.

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 6:48 pm They have changed. From my experience as primary president, they remain on record at least through primary and into youth. I feel comfortably justified as their mother in requesting their names be dropped. I am sure they will honor my wish when my husband sends his signature in with mine.

I just came across this on NOM (new order mormon forum):

acmeist wrote: My daughter is an adult now. We never baptized her but did bless her as an infant. Church bothered her/us when she turned 9 to get that easy baptism number, but otherwise I have never heard from them about her. I am still a member on record. I saw the relief society newsletter, and it had her birthday on it for the month. How do we get rid of this? I know she would probably want it removed if it can be done. Quitmormon.org didn't seem to have any information, anyone know or have experience with this?

Just This Guy wrote: Supposedly church policy is that if a child is blessed, but not baptized, they will be dropped from membership records when they turn 18. No idea of that is actually enforced or not.

wtfluff wrote: Nope, I have a non-baptized 18-year-old.

While I can't see "details" of their record now because they're 18, I can still see them in L(s)DS tools.

acmeist wrote: I did some searching and found this on the church site:

“However, the ward in which the person lives retains the membership record until the person is 18. At that time, if the person chooses not to be baptized despite being given every opportunity, the bishop, with permission from the stake president, cancels the membership record.“

I have no idea what her number is or mine, where my ward meets or even when. I guess I will start with the RS newsletter contact to see who the bishop is because she wants it cancelled. This is a very annoying and dumb thing to deal with more than a decade after leaving.

https://newordermormon.net/viewtopic.php?p=95932#p95932

So weird that a person never confirmed a member of the LDS Church is still on the records - and can't resign because they were never baptized. What a load of rubbish!

Well I always dropped such persons when I served as a clerk.

gkearney wrote: ↑September 30th, 2023, 8:26 pm Well I always dropped such persons when I served as a clerk.

That makes sense to me. If they were never baptized, there's no reason to keep them on the books, in my opinion.

Silver Pie wrote: ↑September 30th, 2023, 8:12 pm

Ado wrote: ↑September 26th, 2023, 6:48 pm They have changed. From my experience as primary president, they remain on record at least through primary and into youth. I feel comfortably justified as their mother in requesting their names be dropped. I am sure they will honor my wish when my husband sends his signature in with mine.

I just came across this on NOM (new order mormon forum):

acmeist wrote: My daughter is an adult now. We never baptized her but did bless her as an infant. Church bothered her/us when she turned 9 to get that easy baptism number, but otherwise I have never heard from them about her. I am still a member on record. I saw the relief society newsletter, and it had her birthday on it for the month. How do we get rid of this? I know she would probably want it removed if it can be done. Quitmormon.org didn't seem to have any information, anyone know or have experience with this?

Just This Guy wrote: Supposedly church policy is that if a child is blessed, but not baptized, they will be dropped from membership records when they turn 18. No idea of that is actually enforced or not.

wtfluff wrote: Nope, I have a non-baptized 18-year-old.

While I can't see "details" of their record now because they're 18, I can still see them in L(s)DS tools.

acmeist wrote: I did some searching and found this on the church site:

“However, the ward in which the person lives retains the membership record until the person is 18. At that time, if the person chooses not to be baptized despite being given every opportunity, the bishop, with permission from the stake president, cancels the membership record.“

I have no idea what her number is or mine, where my ward meets or even when. I guess I will start with the RS newsletter contact to see who the bishop is because she wants it cancelled. This is a very annoying and dumb thing to deal with more than a decade after leaving.

https://newordermormon.net/viewtopic.php?p=95932#p95932

"..if the person chooses not to be baptized despite being given every opportunity..."
LOL

Silver Pie wrote: ↑September 30th, 2023, 8:14 pm So weird that a person never confirmed a member of the LDS Church is still on the records - and can't resign because they were never baptized. What a load of rubbish!

Absolutely infuriating.