By the Holy Ghost

[CaptainM]

See viewtopic.php?t=71823 Take Away number 6 for the context of my query below.

Do you think that Lehi and Nephi had hands laid upon their heads to receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost?

17)And it came to pass after I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father, concerning the things which he saw in a vision, and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God-and the Son of God was the Messiah who should come-I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto all those who diligently seek him, as well in times of old as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men.
18)For he is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.
19)For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round. (1 Nephi 10)

Do you think there is an essential ORDINANCE of salvation to bestow the GIFT of the Holy Ghost? This is what the Book of Mormon states:

1)THE words of Christ, which he spake unto his disciples, the twelve whom he had chosen, as he laid his hands upon them-
2)And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall give the Holy Ghost; and in my name shall ye give it, for thus do mine apostles.
3)Now Christ spake these words unto them at the time of his first appearing; and the multitude heard it not, but the disciples heard it; and on as many as they laid their hands, fell the Holy Ghost.

also

16)And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world. (3 Nephi 27)

The promise is that they SHALL be filled. We all know there are various ways that the Lord operates among the children of men. Why not about this subject?

There is nothing about it being a GIFT given by men. I can't help but think that it is a process for those who come forth with a broken heart and contrite spirit that did not have the Holy Ghost fall upon them already. I hate to use the analogy but perhaps it is a way to jump-start a stalled vehicle.

Your thoughts?

[Ymarsakar]

The gift is a way to talk about divine dna activation. The keys can decode the DNA code, which is suppressed by satans' chains.

Look up what scientism calls junk dna.

Also look up epigenetics.

DNA is not a static stone record that you are born with. It is changeable via sins and actions. Keys can unlock portions and those keys can come from bloodlnes, people, and others who have unlocked the dna code segments.

[Shawn Henry]

Some great points. Whatever our paradigm, we would have to account for both the formal and informal ways of bestowing the HG. Obviously, God's hands are not tied, he does not put himself in a box. I suspect the laying on of hands was simply to speed up the process, considering it was time for all of them to live as one. Plus, they had all already seen Jesus who is not just the author but also the finisher of our faith. They had all reached the point to where they no longer had faith in Jesus because it had been replaced with knowledge of Jesus.

[Peeps]

Acts chapter 10 is a great example of people getting filled with the Holy Spirit prior to receiving a water baptism.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

[Shawn Henry]

Acts chapter 10 is a great example of people getting filled with the Holy Spirit prior to receiving a water baptism.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

That's a great scripture. It clearly shows you can get the gift of the HG without baptism and laying on of hands.

[JohnnyL]

See viewtopic.php?t=71823 Take Away number 6 for the context of my query below.

Do you think that Lehi and Nephi had hands laid upon their heads to receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost?

17)And it came to pass after I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father, concerning the things which he saw in a vision, and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God-and the Son of God was the Messiah who should come-I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto all those who diligently seek him, as well in times of old as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men.
18)For he is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.
19)For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round. (1 Nephi 10)

Do you think there is an essential ORDINANCE of salvation to bestow the GIFT of the Holy Ghost? This is what the Book of Mormon states:

1)THE words of Christ, which he spake unto his disciples, the twelve whom he had chosen, as he laid his hands upon them-
2)And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall give the Holy Ghost; and in my name shall ye give it, for thus do mine apostles.
3)Now Christ spake these words unto them at the time of his first appearing; and the multitude heard it not, but the disciples heard it; and on as many as they laid their hands, fell the Holy Ghost.

also

16)And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world. (3 Nephi 27)

The promise is that they SHALL be filled. We all know there are various ways that the Lord operates among the children of men. Why not about this subject?

There is nothing about it being a GIFT given by men. I can't help but think that it is a process for those who come forth with a broken heart and contrite spirit that did not have the Holy Ghost fall upon them already. I hate to use the analogy but perhaps it is a way to jump-start a stalled vehicle.

Your thoughts?

Yes, and yes.

[Dusty Wanderer]

I wish I had the reference, maybe someone else does, but I recall that early in the church's formation, Joseph did not require a rebaptism of certain new members, as they already exhibited the fruits of having received the Spirit.