Why People Are Leaving The LDS Church

[kirtland r.m.]

Why People Are Leaving The LDS Church. Cwic Media says right now it's all about breaking down Christianity and claiming it is the oppressor. Identity politics. I write about this all the time. Here is the link.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi4-fEEPBxE

[Niemand]

Partly, but there are a number of other reasons. One of them is simple, i.e. it requires a lot of work and not much reward (spiritual or otherwise. )

[SJR3t2]

Because it contradicts the BoM on just about everything https://seekingyhwh.org/2018/07/22/exce ... cept-that/. And the lies the leaders tell https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/lds/.

[InfoWarrior82]

The asleep want the church to be all the way in Babylon. The awakened are upset that they are more than halfway in Babylon already.


15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

[kirtland r.m.]

Partly, but there are a number of other reasons. One of them is simple, i.e. it requires a lot of work and not much reward (spiritual or otherwise. )

To preserve our agency, blessings including spiritual witnesses and miraculous events as you have put it, sometimes "requires a lot of work". We cannot mistake this for God not being there, or a demonstration of His lack of love for us. The reverse is also true. We will find that wickedness never was happiness. Again, to preserve agency, results of evil behavior MAY be delayed for a brief time.

But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return. 3 Nephi 27:11

[Ymarsakar]

You:
write an essay about why people may be leaving the church of latter day saints
GPT-4:Title: An Examination of the Factors Influencing Departures from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

Introduction

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, commonly known as the LDS Church or the Mormon Church, has been a significant religious institution since its establishment in the 19th century. However, like many religious organizations, it has experienced a decline in membership in recent years. This essay aims to explore some of the potential reasons why individuals may be leaving the LDS Church.

Historical and Doctrinal Concerns

One of the primary reasons cited by former members for leaving the LDS Church is historical and doctrinal issues. Some individuals have expressed concerns about the church's history, including its founder Joseph Smith's polygamy, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and the church's past stance on race. Additionally, some members have struggled with certain doctrines, such as the church's teachings on LGBTQ+ issues, gender roles, and its unique theological concepts. These concerns can lead to a crisis of faith, prompting individuals to leave the church.

Cultural Factors

Cultural factors also play a significant role in why some people choose to leave the LDS Church. The church's culture is often described as insular, with a strong emphasis on community and conformity. This can be challenging for individuals who feel they do not fit the mold or who value their independence and individuality. Furthermore, the church's stance on issues such as modesty, sexuality, and gender roles can feel restrictive to some, leading them to seek a more liberal or inclusive religious community.

Institutional Transparency

Another factor influencing departures from the LDS Church is the perceived lack of institutional transparency. Some former members have expressed frustration with what they perceive as the church's unwillingness to openly discuss controversial aspects of its history and doctrine. This perceived lack of transparency can lead to feelings of betrayal and mistrust, prompting individuals to leave the church.

Conclusion

In conclusion, departures from the LDS Church are influenced by a variety of factors, including historical and doctrinal concerns, cultural factors, and perceived lack of institutional transparency. It's important to note that these reasons can vary greatly from individual to individual, and each person's journey out of the church is unique. Understanding these factors can provide valuable insights into the challenges faced by religious institutions in the modern world and highlight the importance of openness, inclusivity, and respect for individuality in maintaining a vibrant and diverse religious community.

The video makes a great point about the victimhood issue. Basicalyl victimhood mentality always leads people astray, even if temporarily.

The Book of Mormon has a certain frequency range. Those outside of it will react like people did to Tate, Tucker Carlson, Vladimir Putin, DOnald Trump, Gonzalo Lira, Tim Ballard, etc etc.

This is called the Great Awakening but it is a Great division/Reset as well.

Where consensus reality breaks down and quantum physics creates a schroedinger's box scenario.

[Erastothenes]

Because we have learned that spirituality and a real relationship with our creator does not require sitting in pews or genuflecting to MBAs, PhDs, attorneys or other charlatans masquerading as "beloved prophets." Finding and following God does not require living in poverty in order to fund real estate investments of the annointed. In short. We have seen the scam and we are rejecting it for real joy, real freedom and the true reason for our journey here in mortality.

[Good & Global]

Because we have learned that spirituality and a real relationship with our creator does not require sitting in pews or genuflecting to MBAs, PhDs, attorneys or other charlatans masquerading as "beloved prophets." Finding and following God does not require living in poverty in order to fund real estate investments of the annointed. In short. We have seen the scam and we are rejecting it for real joy, real freedom and the true reason for our journey here in mortality.

Add to that, taking credit for everything good, including but not limited to your generous donations, your good works, your struggles to be a true disciple to enable them to do alms before men and to take the Lord's name in vain through their idiotic branding schemes on the name of the church.

[TwochurchesOnly]

Because we have learned that spirituality and a real relationship with our creator does not require sitting in pews or genuflecting to MBAs, PhDs, attorneys or other charlatans masquerading as "beloved prophets." Finding and following God does not require living in poverty in order to fund real estate investments of the annointed. In short. We have seen the scam and we are rejecting it for real joy, real freedom and the true reason for our journey here in mortality.

Amen

[Chip]

These are great lists.

I find their increasing authoritarianism to be like a tightening noose. Crazily enough, many members seem to relish in it.

[LDS Physician]

It's the dissonance for most.

They felt it when the FP sent out a letter saying the vaccines were "the only way", a "godsend", and we should "trust the government" while the scriptures and the spirit say quite the opposite.

They felt it when they watched the church purchase a $148 million Maui resort and wrote fat checks to the UN and the NAACP.

They felt it when the church voiced approval for the Defense of Marriage Act, essentially sustaining with the right hands of prophets, seers, and revelators the legalization of sodomite marriage in the Promised Land.

They feel it every time they have to answer the temple recommend question "Do you strive to be honest in all your dealings" while the church is fined millions of dollars for fraudulently hiding funds from members and the government in shell corporations and shady dealings.

They feel it when they read the Proclamation of the Family and the scriptures while watching the church cozy up to the LGBQ movement and seeing pride flags popping up all over the Wasatch Front.

The list goes on.

[FrankOne]

Church leadership has done everything possible to attract the masses through appeasement.

It isn't working because they're wrong.

The Captain takes responsibility for the vessel .

The sane passengers and even many of the crew are abandoning ship.

The Captain is quite mad.

[Good & Global]

It's the dissonance for most.

They felt it when the FP sent out a letter saying the vaccines were "the only way", a "godsend", and we should "trust the government" while the scriptures and the spirit say quite the opposite.

They felt it when they watched the church purchase a $148 million Maui resort and wrote fat checks to the UN and the NAACP.

They felt it when the church voiced approval for the Defense of Marriage Act, essentially sustaining with the right hands of prophets, seers, and revelators the legalization of sodomite marriage in the Promised Land.

They feel it every time they have to answer the temple recommend question "Do you strive to be honest in all your dealings" while the church is fined millions of dollars for fraudulently hiding funds from members and the government in shell corporations and shady dealings.

They feel it when they read the Proclamation of the Family and the scriptures while watching the church cozy up to the LGBQ movement and seeing pride flags popping up all over the Wasatch Front.

The list goes on.

This feels like going to the dentist after not brushing since last Conference.

Every point listed causes pain and the need to spit.

[Lineman1012]

It's the dissonance for most.

They felt it when the FP sent out a letter saying the vaccines were "the only way", a "godsend", and we should "trust the government" while the scriptures and the spirit say quite the opposite.

They felt it when they watched the church purchase a $148 million Maui resort and wrote fat checks to the UN and the NAACP.

They felt it when the church voiced approval for the Defense of Marriage Act, essentially sustaining with the right hands of prophets, seers, and revelators the legalization of sodomite marriage in the Promised Land.

They feel it every time they have to answer the temple recommend question "Do you strive to be honest in all your dealings" while the church is fined millions of dollars for fraudulently hiding funds from members and the government in shell corporations and shady dealings.

They feel it when they read the Proclamation of the Family and the scriptures while watching the church cozy up to the LGBQ movement and seeing pride flags popping up all over the Wasatch Front.

The list goes on.

I felt it when RMN, the Lord’s PSR and representative on earth, the only one who holds all of the keys to our eternal ordinances, the head of Jesus’ church and special witness for Jesus Christ the son of God, gave his “message of hope” to the world and failed to mention or witness of Jesus Christ, but, instead took 9 of the eleven minutes to tell us what a great life, family and career he had. Plus how special Wendy was.

Yes I felt it!

[Atrasado]

It's not that I'm leaving the Church, it's that the Church and its leaders are leaving Jesus Christ. Isaiah described this when he wrote,

9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: 11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. (Isaiah 30:9-11)

[CaptainM]

Because the Spirit is SCREAMING:

4) …Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5)For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6)Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7)How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (Revelation 18)

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

It's the dissonance for most.

They felt it when the FP sent out a letter saying the vaccines were "the only way", a "godsend", and we should "trust the government" while the scriptures and the spirit say quite the opposite.

They felt it when they watched the church purchase a $148 million Maui resort and wrote fat checks to the UN and the NAACP.

They felt it when the church voiced approval for the Defense of Marriage Act, essentially sustaining with the right hands of prophets, seers, and revelators the legalization of sodomite marriage in the Promised Land.

They feel it every time they have to answer the temple recommend question "Do you strive to be honest in all your dealings" while the church is fined millions of dollars for fraudulently hiding funds from members and the government in shell corporations and shady dealings.

They feel it when they read the Proclamation of the Family and the scriptures while watching the church cozy up to the LGBQ movement and seeing pride flags popping up all over the Wasatch Front.

The list goes on.

Amen

[Alaris]

It's the dissonance for most.

They felt it when the FP sent out a letter saying the vaccines were "the only way", a "godsend", and we should "trust the government" while the scriptures and the spirit say quite the opposite.

They felt it when they watched the church purchase a $148 million Maui resort and wrote fat checks to the UN and the NAACP.

They felt it when the church voiced approval for the Defense of Marriage Act, essentially sustaining with the right hands of prophets, seers, and revelators the legalization of sodomite marriage in the Promised Land.

They feel it every time they have to answer the temple recommend question "Do you strive to be honest in all your dealings" while the church is fined millions of dollars for fraudulently hiding funds from members and the government in shell corporations and shady dealings.

They feel it when they read the Proclamation of the Family and the scriptures while watching the church cozy up to the LGBQ movement and seeing pride flags popping up all over the Wasatch Front.

The list goes on.

Exactly this and more.... Robbinius was a week ahead, March 2020. And then, I took them control - Take your damn Vaccines / COVID, and UN / Money, and Globalists... and you can stuff it!

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

The fraud was not apparent at the onset. It didn't fall apart until Navuoo, when a temple endowment was borrowed from the Masons in an attempt to bind people to secrecy about polygamy and to cover the mess. Members in Nauvoo were told that the endowment was a ceremony preserved from the days of Solomon's temple---until, of course, it was discovered that the masons got their start in England in 1450 AD.

Its a pretty simple task to unmask a fraud. Every nickel and dime detective asks the same questions: What did you know and when did you know it? Nauvoo was the tipping point of the fraud. The moment the "Ponzi" scheme was exposed for all to see. The moment when everyone saw behind the curtain, if they had the courage and the critical thinking skills to take a look, and find that the great Wizard of Navuoo's emerald city was a man trying to keep up the facade of a religious fraud. The instigators, perpetrators and insiders insist, right up until the very end, of even multigenerational frauds, that there's nothing to see here. Everything is above board. The Narrative is sound. Until it isn't.

If you work backwards from Nauvoo to Kirkland, and then to Palmyra the fraud becomes apparent. At first you saw an innocent boy prophet not a "scrier" (seer) treasure digger known for his narrative abilities to get people to pay him to help them dig for treasure, who decided, at the behest of his father, that he should get out of treasure digging because it was against the law and he was hounded by the courts and the sheriff, and get into something respectable like religion, where you could make good money, and never go to jail if you called your inventive narratives a new faith, and your money digging an offering.

None of the fraudulent beginnings would have seen the light of day if not for Nauvoo. No one sees a fraud up front. No one sees the false narratives at the beginning. It isn't until the end when the scam is exposed for all to see. Then you work back asking "what did you know, and when did you know it"? When did you pursue a sexual relationship with Fanny Alger in the barn (1833). When did you know that relationship was God-ordained polygamy (1843). When did you tell great, soaring narrative stories around the family hearth about the great warring nations of the americas who arrived here on boats and entertain your family with details of the clothing, armaments, religious beliefs, and sermons of these ancient civilizations. (1823). When did you find the plates of gold (1827).

People are leaving the church because when a fraud is exposed, it loses its appeal. And, along with that, sadly, the perception of salvific power that got the fraud going in the first place. Promise the the suckers salvation. Or in this case, exaltation. It works the same as snake oil.

Like Jesus said, "Many shall come in my name". Name, in Hebrew (nom), and in Greek (ónoma) means character trait. Many shall come professing kindness, love, charity, patiences, mercy, forgiveness. But they are not of me. If its a fraud, then it's just another fraudster "coming in the name of Jesus." Regardless of how many pages of rehtorical narrative devices, and glory-of-God language you heap one line upon the other, and mix with highly emotive, faith promoting, Jesus centric biblical wisdoms. It's still a fraud.

A wild olive tree produces good fruit for a season, but eventually the wild branches take over the tame ones, and the fruit goes bad. And no amount of digging, or dunging, or pruning or grafting can save the tree or produce good fruit. It's time to burn the vineyard down.

[Robin Hood]

The fraud was not apparent at the onset. It didn't fall apart until Navuoo, when a temple endowment was borrowed from the Masons in an attempt to bind people to secrecy about polygamy and to cover the mess. Members in Nauvoo were told that the endowment was a ceremony preserved from the days of Solomon's temple---until, of course, it was discovered that the masons got their start in England in 1450 AD.

Its a pretty simple task to unmask a fraud. Every nickel and dime detective asks the same questions: What did you know and when did you know it? Nauvoo was the tipping point of the fraud. The moment the "Ponzi" scheme was exposed for all to see. The moment when everyone saw behind the curtain, if they had the courage and the critical thinking skills to take a look, and find that the great Wizard of Navuoo's emerald city was a man trying to keep up the facade of a religious fraud.

From there, if you work backwards to Kirkland, and then to Palmyra the fraud becomes apparent. At first you saw an innocent boy prophet not a "scrier" (seer) treasure digger known for his narrative abilities to get people to pay him to help them dig for treasure, who decided, at the behest of his father, that he should get out of treasure digging because it was against the law and he was hounded by the courts and the sheriff, and get into something respectable like religion, where you could make good money, and never go to jail for your beliefs.

None of the fraudulent beginnings would have seen the light of day if not for Nauvoo. No one sees a fraud up front. No one sees the false narratives at the beginning. It isn't until the end when the scam is exposed for all to see. Then you work back asking "what did you know, and when did you know it"? When did you pursue a sexual relationship with Fanny Alger in the barn (1833). When did you know that relationship was God-ordained polygamy (1843). When did you tell great, soaring narrative stories around the family hearth about the great warring nations of the americas who arrived here on boats and entertain your family with details of the clothing, armaments, religious beliefs, and sermons of these ancient civilizations. (1823). When did you find the plates of gold (1827).

People are leaving the church because when a fraud is exposed, it loses its appeal. And, sadly, the perception of salvific power that got the fraud going in the first place. Promise the the suckers salvation. Or in this case, exaltation. It works the same as snake oil.

Like Jesus said, "Many shall come in my name". Name, in Hebrew, means character trait. Many shall come professing kindness, love, charity, patiences, mercy, forgiveness. But they are not of me. If its a fraud, then it's just another fraudster "coming in the name of Jesus." Regardless of how many pages of rehtorical narrative devices, and glory-of-God language you heap one line upon the other, and mix with highly emotive, faith promoting, Jesus centric biblical wisdoms. It's still a fraud.

An olive tree with bad roots produces good fruit for a season, but eventually the wild branches take over, and the fruit goes bad. And no amount of digging, or dunging, or pruning or grafting can save the tree or produce good fruit. It's time to burn the vineyard down.

Your comment about "name" in Hebrew seems a little out of place. The NT was written in Greek.

[ransomme]

Partly, but there are a number of other reasons. One of them is simple, i.e. it requires a lot of work and not much reward (spiritual or otherwise. )

That's because the Church Inc system is more built around checking boxes, and doing visible external works without a real system for actual spiritual development.

[ransomme]

Partly, but there are a number of other reasons. One of them is simple, i.e. it requires a lot of work and not much reward (spiritual or otherwise. )

To preserve our agency, blessings including spiritual witnesses and miraculous events as you have put it, sometimes "requires a lot of work". We cannot mistake this for God not being there, or a demonstration of His lack of love for us. The reverse is also true. We will find that wickedness never was happiness. Again, to preserve agency, results of evil behavior MAY be delayed for a brief time.

But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return. 3 Nephi 27:11

But they don't build upon His Gospel, unless you count adding to His Gospel (which the scriptures warn about). And Church Inc is not actually interested in preparing a Zion people (or just doesn't have a clue how to do that).

[Reluctant Watchman]

Some people are leaving the church because the church is leaving Christ’s gospel and His teachings. In order to keep their covenant with the Lord, they are no longer able to remain in said institution.

[Niemand]

Some people are leaving the church because the church is leaving Christ’s gospel and His teachings. In order to keep their covenant with the Lord, they are no longer able to remain in said institution.

Both sometimes. The gay issue is driving people out of the church, not just because they oppose it but also those who support it. Instead of fence sitting, if the church had taken a solid stance one way or the other then they would have kept one lot.

[ransomme]

The fraud was not apparent at the onset. It didn't fall apart until Navuoo, when a temple endowment was borrowed from the Masons in an attempt to bind people to secrecy about polygamy and to cover the mess. Members in Nauvoo were told that the endowment was a ceremony preserved from the days of Solomon's temple---until, of course, it was discovered that the masons got their start in England in 1450 AD.

Its a pretty simple task to unmask a fraud. Every nickel and dime detective asks the same questions: What did you know and when did you know it? Nauvoo was the tipping point of the fraud. The moment the "Ponzi" scheme was exposed for all to see. The moment when everyone saw behind the curtain, if they had the courage and the critical thinking skills to take a look, and find that the great Wizard of Navuoo's emerald city was a man trying to keep up the facade of a religious fraud.

From there, if you work backwards to Kirkland, and then to Palmyra the fraud becomes apparent. At first you saw an innocent boy prophet not a "scrier" (seer) treasure digger known for his narrative abilities to get people to pay him to help them dig for treasure, who decided, at the behest of his father, that he should get out of treasure digging because it was against the law and he was hounded by the courts and the sheriff, and get into something respectable like religion, where you could make good money, and never go to jail for your beliefs.

None of the fraudulent beginnings would have seen the light of day if not for Nauvoo. No one sees a fraud up front. No one sees the false narratives at the beginning. It isn't until the end when the scam is exposed for all to see. Then you work back asking "what did you know, and when did you know it"? When did you pursue a sexual relationship with Fanny Alger in the barn (1833). When did you know that relationship was God-ordained polygamy (1843). When did you tell great, soaring narrative stories around the family hearth about the great warring nations of the americas who arrived here on boats and entertain your family with details of the clothing, armaments, religious beliefs, and sermons of these ancient civilizations. (1823). When did you find the plates of gold (1827).

People are leaving the church because when a fraud is exposed, it loses its appeal. And, sadly, the perception of salvific power that got the fraud going in the first place. Promise the the suckers salvation. Or in this case, exaltation. It works the same as snake oil.

Like Jesus said, "Many shall come in my name". Name, in Hebrew, means character trait. Many shall come professing kindness, love, charity, patiences, mercy, forgiveness. But they are not of me. If its a fraud, then it's just another fraudster "coming in the name of Jesus." Regardless of how many pages of rehtorical narrative devices, and glory-of-God language you heap one line upon the other, and mix with highly emotive, faith promoting, Jesus centric biblical wisdoms. It's still a fraud.

An olive tree with bad roots produces good fruit for a season, but eventually the wild branches take over, and the fruit goes bad. And no amount of digging, or dunging, or pruning or grafting can save the tree or produce good fruit. It's time to burn the vineyard down.

Curious, from where are you coming with this view?

Your Monday morning quarterbacking skills are off by a lot on pretty much everything, in the end we get to the same result:

The emperor has no clothes.