LDS Freedom Forum

All this hub-bub over that goofy graphic!?

buffalo_girl wrote: ↑July 30th, 2023, 2:05 pm All this hub-bub over that goofy graphic!?

Thank you for saying this. Posted it to give people a chuckle. Ummmm.

NeveR wrote: ↑July 27th, 2023, 10:23 pm As some of you might know I'm a fairly recent "convert" to Mormonism (I know we aren't supposed to use that word, but if it was good enough pre-Nelson, I don't see why it isn't now).

I'm in the church because I met my soulmate & he happens to be a Mormon, bic, from a fairly long line. He didn't ask me to join - he is willing for me to find my own way. But after being married a while and after several years of studying the subject I decided to be baptized.

I wasn't 100% convinced, but it felt right at the time.

Then the scamdemic happened..

And the church's response to it...

And since then I have found more and more things about the LDS faith & teaching I just don't understand, or which seem to be in pure contradiction to each other.

Right now I'm genuinely confused, frustrated, trying to make coherent sense of it all.

This discussion illustrates well some of my problems.

* We're told in some places that everyone is 'saved' or savable, whatever creed they believe in - apart from the sons of perdition.

* But yet we're also told (as someone quotes today on another thread) that only being baptised and "believing" will save us from damnation.

* We're also given different versions of what "damnation" even means.

And right here, we have people who have apparently been taught very different things about what apostasy means.

How are these and the many other anomalies and contradictions to be resolved?

I'm asking as someone who has no hate or bitterness - just a desire to understand & find truth

I believe through the life of Jesus Christ and what He taught and what His Apostles taught. Jesus was the message of the Father in the Flesh to the world. When we see His character we understand more. Jesus Healed all who came to Him, He forgave all that asked and even many who didin't ask. He did tell us to be baptized if we believe. He said those who believe on Him and know Him know the Father, Knowing the Father is eternal life. So how does this play out? We believe in Jesus- whose message was no longer consider yourself unworthy of God's love, I have come to save the world, and not condemn it, for it was already condemned. Baptism is a sign of a believe to demonstrate their belief, done outside of that, it twists the ordinances- baptism doesn't save, but because we understand the Lord, we are demonstrating thorugh faith that we are dead to our old self and are being made alive in Christ, raised up with HIm- no longer cast off- but again, baptism is an expression of faith, not the requirement. Jesus told us to follow Him we must "deny ourselves, pick up our cross daily- which means to do as He did on the cross -even when crucified and told we are wrong, we bless them and ask the Father to forgive them, because they don't know what they are doing and we do His good works- nothing we do can save us, it is just belief on and in His name. Jesus came to call us to repentance which means to change our minds. It is belief on Him that brings forgiveness of Sin, it is belief that He gave His life for us and that we are clean, then accepting that we are no longer who were were, but are now new creatures in Him, fulfilling hte destiny He called us to from the beginning- because we were born to Adam, our ways were not the Lord's ways He is saying believce in me and be born to Christ and live the ways of God, taking upon His image- This process naturally leads to baptism of the Spirit as well- then our life is lived in service of God and fellow men, to help save them and not condemn them. It isn't a set of ordinances.

IN the end though, don't believe me. Read teh New Testament and ask God to show you His heart and what He was trying to share thorugh HIs Son and what those who taught afterwards were and are trying to share in their letters. Don't read for knowledge or confirm belief, but read it as a little child, believing promises etc.. Read it in context and not by verse and chapter and you will receive your answer because God loves you and He wants you to know Him- that is why He sent His Son, His Son is the message of God to mankind, of how much He desires relationship with you and to teach you. As that belief solidifies in you, these answers will come clear.

TL:DR God loves you, the proof of that is that He sent His Son to re-establish relationship with Him. If you believe that and let that be your rock, trust that He will guide you. Read the New Testametn as a little Child trusting in His word, but looking at the entire context and not just a verse or chapter and Ask God to reveal His heart and mind to you through Scripture and hte life of Jesus. Trust that God wants to give you truth and He loves you to give you the truth- the proof of that is Jesus came ot give His life so you could be free from sin (He who the Son sets free is free indeed). God will guide you because HE loves you and desires you in His presence, He will not forsake you as long as you seek HIm. Trust Him and trust He will correct you. Ask Him to correct you if you are going the wrong direction and trust. You will be alright through and in HIm.

buffalo_girl wrote: ↑July 30th, 2023, 2:05 pm All this hub-bub over that goofy graphic!?

A mere feather on top of a heavy load broke the bacm

NeveR wrote: ↑July 27th, 2023, 10:23 pm As some of you might know I'm a fairly recent "convert" to Mormonism (I know we aren't supposed to use that word, but if it was good enough pre-Nelson, I don't see why it isn't now).

I'm in the church because I met my soulmate & he happens to be a Mormon, bic, from a fairly long line. He didn't ask me to join - he is willing for me to find my own way. But after being married a while and after several years of studying the subject I decided to be baptized.

I wasn't 100% convinced, but it felt right at the time.

Then the scamdemic happened..

And the church's response to it...

And since then I have found more and more things about the LDS faith & teaching I just don't understand, or which seem to be in pure contradiction to each other.

Right now I'm genuinely confused, frustrated, trying to make coherent sense of it all.

This discussion illustrates well some of my problems.

* We're told in some places that everyone is 'saved' or savable, whatever creed they believe in - apart from the sons of perdition.

* But yet we're also told (as someone quotes today on another thread) that only being baptised and "believing" will save us from damnation.

* We're also given different versions of what "damnation" even means.

And right here, we have people who have apparently been taught very different things about what apostasy means.

How are these and the many other anomalies and contradictions to be resolved?

I'm asking as someone who has no hate or bitterness - just a desire to understand & find truth

I converted from ffather deism in 2016 to lds.

Different people at different levels of spiritual maturity will see different lessons.

For example an advanced soul like the hamblin whistleblower, can be abused and still refuse to sacrifice her cat to save herself. In a way the cat is her soul and child innocence.

But take another soul and they will gladly kill the cat to save themselves and perpetuate this karma violence througb abuse of their sons and daughters.

What was the difference? Merely one soul was more mature and stronger.

What you get out of mormonism depends on what you need or r looking for. If u married into it, then it was to be a safe environment for raising kids. And that has been mpstly true outside utah until 2020.

Now the karma of the lds org has resurfaced and payment must be made. Many are confused.

This is a god test of people s spvereignty. Not everyone is going to the same spirit grade.

The god rays aka x flares are making people either more enlightened or more crazy. The contradictions r part of the craziness of these end times. End times madness it is called.

The good become saner and better. The bad become truly worse.

Your god wont require you to know what salvation is or baptism. These topics are low priority for most people s fated life.

While i dont place as much trust in the scripturws as john tavner, i second the recommendation to read new t. In context while asking ur god for understanding.

Bibliomancy. Ask a question in prayer. Random flip to a page and there is ur answer.

NeveR wrote: ↑July 27th, 2023, 10:23 pm As some of you might know I'm a fairly recent "convert" to Mormonism (I know we aren't supposed to use that word, but if it was good enough pre-Nelson, I don't see why it isn't now).

I'm in the church because I met my soulmate & he happens to be a Mormon, bic, from a fairly long line. He didn't ask me to join - he is willing for me to find my own way. But after being married a while and after several years of studying the subject I decided to be baptized.

I wasn't 100% convinced, but it felt right at the time.

Then the scamdemic happened..

And the church's response to it...

And since then I have found more and more things about the LDS faith & teaching I just don't understand, or which seem to be in pure contradiction to each other.

Right now I'm genuinely confused, frustrated, trying to make coherent sense of it all.

This discussion illustrates well some of my problems.

* We're told in some places that everyone is 'saved' or savable, whatever creed they believe in - apart from the sons of perdition.

* But yet we're also told (as someone quotes today on another thread) that only being baptised and "believing" will save us from damnation.

* We're also given different versions of what "damnation" even means.

And right here, we have people who have apparently been taught very different things about what apostasy means.

How are these and the many other anomalies and contradictions to be resolved?

I'm asking as someone who has no hate or bitterness - just a desire to understand & find truth

Read the Gospel of John, and the rest of the NT for starters. It says who Jesus Christ is, and was, then move on to Acts and learn of Paul's commission to the Gentiles. For this is a literal fulfillment of Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Then go back and read the rest of the Bible after finishing the NT. The gospel of John is unique, in that it tells you who Jesus Christ was, and is, before Creation, instead of His earthly genealogy.

I just spent the afternoon reading the words of Handsome Lake (1735 - 1815), the Seneca Prophet. He writes about being visited by four heavenly visitors who gave him many words that he needed to convey to his people. Section 102 of the document:

SECTION 102

"In a loud voice the punisher cried to a certain person saying, 'Come hither.' The punisher held a drinking vessel in his hand and within it was molten metal and thrusting it in the hands of the man he had called he said, 'Now warm yourself again as was your custom while on the earth for you loved hot drink.' Now the man pleaded but the punisher compelled him to swallow the molten metal. Then the man screamed in a loud voice and fell prone upon the ground with vapor steaming from his throat. Now he cried no more.

"Then said the four messengers, 'You have seen the manner of punishing those who persist in taking the fiery drink.'

So they said. Eniaiehuk.

There are many sections of the document that deal with distilled alcohol. The expression, "hot drinks are not for the belly" main not mean what we think when thinking about the Word of Wisdom.

Mike

Mamabear wrote: ↑July 27th, 2023, 5:40 pm

HVDC wrote: ↑July 27th, 2023, 5:36 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑July 27th, 2023, 5:08 pm And lower than liars… Including those that lie and steal and get rich in the name of God. How about you?
IMG_4460.jpeg

I don't know where you are at in your journey.

But I wouldn't worry too much about what other people think.

Remember.

The Sabbath was made for man.

Not man for the Sabbath.

This should give you some idea about your value.

So focus on how you treat others.

And let God focus on how He treats you.

Sir H

I’m not worried, I’m good. I just thought it was very funny.

I am worried…..that the person who drew that diagram…. and RMN actually believe it…

Chip wrote: ↑July 28th, 2023, 1:08 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑July 28th, 2023, 12:17 pm

Chip wrote: ↑July 28th, 2023, 9:43 am


My comment was present tense, about today, right now.

At this point in time, church members whose minds are glued to the leadership will not apply current events to scriptures. All their thinking and speech is bounded by the limits set by the leaders' examples. They can't process covid, for example. Ether 8 is remote to them.

In fact, for these people, the church DEFINES right and wrong by its very actions. If the church promotes the UN Agenda 2030 sustainable development goals, then Agenda.2930 is RIGHT. If the church doesn't apply Ether 8's warning to current events, then such applications by members are WRONG. If the vaxx is understood to have killed family members after the prophet called it a "literal godsend", then.... there is a sustained mental impasse that amounts to paralysis.

And that diagram is in excess of what Jesus taught.

sorry you are just making negative stuff up that has nothing to do with the diagram based on teachings of "Chip" w/o mingling scripture..

And I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a 70 that knows an apostle that says (yeah love it)

I register that you are upset. Being upset is not allowed in the church these days.

We must always keep to the covenant path comrade. I’ll use the heat of my internal frustration to light my lamp with the oil of strict institutional obedience.