180th ANNIVERSARY OF GREAT VICTORY FOR THE FULLNESS OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST

[Luke]

180 years have now passed since the Revelation on Celestial Plural Marriage was first given. Lovers of truth the world over look back with deep emotion and gratitude to the Lord on those days when the Prophet Joseph Smith revealed this precious principle to his trusted friends, paving the way for the advancement of this Principle forever.

Though the Revelation was first written down at this time, the Prophet had known of these matters for 12 years already. The Principle first came to his attention in 1831, when the Lord revealed that in due time, the already-married brethren would take some of the living descendants of Lehi to wife. The Prophet explained that the Saints of God are always directed by revelation.

In the mid-1830s, the Prophet first entered into the Principle himself. On account of this, many of his contemporaries apostatised, and he felt put off the Principle as a result of the mischief which afterwards ensued. But the Lord required more, and made His will clear to Joseph. An angel visited him no less than three times—the final time brandishing a flaming sword—this to make clear to Joseph that the responsibility of establishing this important Principle fell upon him. Recognising his duty, Joseph boldly went forward and entered into the Principle of Celestial Plural Marriage, and made sure that those close to him were made aware of this Principle. He instructed them to likewise enter into it.

Whilst unjustly in prison because of persecution due this principle, and thinking back on those times, Lorenzo Snow expressed in poetry:

“In private talk one evening with
Our Seer and Prophet Joseph Smith,
Before he shared a martyr’s fate,
To me in solemn words did state:
To him an angel did appear
Saying thus, in language clear,
‘I hereby come for thee to warn
(While in his hand a sword was drawn—)
To take thee wives—this law obey
Or God in anger will thee slay’.
’Twas eighteen hundred forty three
This sacred law was shown to me
Which gives to man his loving wives
God’s only path to endless lives.”
(Lorenzo Snow, Record Book, 1886-1887, pg. 16, 5 August 1886, CHL)

When the Prophet first received the revelation now known as Doctrine and Covenants Section 132 is unknown, but on 12 July 1843, in the presence of his brother Hyrum Smith, and his faithful scribe William Clayton, the Prophet instructed William to write down the Revelation which he had previously received on the subject of Celestial Plural Marriage, and proceeded to dictate it word-for-word. Three individuals could now bear witness to God’s will in relation to this Principle, establishing it in the world forever, never to be lost again. The law of witnesses came into effect: “. . . in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.” (Matthew 18:16).

Approaching the end of his life, Joseph Smith ensured that those who were faithful to this sacred Principle were at the helm of the Church and Kingdom, thus allowing for it to spread in prominence as a doctrine and practice among the people. This ensured that to this day, not a year has gone by without a child being born in the covenant of Celestial Plural Marriage.

Today, Celestial Plural Marriage continues, and the Fundamentalist movement remains convinced of the truth of this principle—in word and in deed. Never giving up on what God has revealed, they advance courageously under the banner of the Fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They will not compromise—they cannot be bought. Nothing the world offers can persuade them to throw true principles by the wayside. “Sign that document? Never!”—Such words ring in their minds. Thanks to these individuals, this law will be kept alive until the end shall come, when every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ, and that the laws instituted by Him are just and holy.

Invincible is the movement that preserves the Principle of Celestial Plural Marriage, firmly rallied under the banner of the teachings and revelations of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and the headship of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[CuriousThinker]

What are your thoughts on section 132 not being carried out the way that you believe it was written? Many of the leaders married women who were already married at the time, or had been married, and were not virgins as 132 says they are supposed to be. Do you believe they broke the law? Why would an angel with a flaming sword be needed to force Joseph to follow the law, but not needed when he didn't follow it properly? Section 132 mentions the law of Sarah. Do you think Joseph and others followed that by first asking their first wife?
(I am not attacking you, or your beliefs. I just know you know a lot about plural marriage and its history so I figured I would ask you.)

[Luke]

What are your thoughts on section 132 not being carried out the way that you believe it was written? Many of the leaders married women who were already married at the time, or had been married, and were not virgins as 132 says they are supposed to be. Do you believe they broke the law? Why would an angel with a flaming sword be needed to force Joseph to follow the law, but not needed when he didn't follow it properly? Section 132 mentions the law of Sarah. Do you think Joseph and others followed that by first asking their first wife?
(I am not attacking you, or your beliefs. I just know you know a lot about plural marriage and its history so I figured I would ask you.)

I will get back to you shortly mate

[cab]

This sums up William Clayton’s claims better than I could. Compliments to the author of this gem of a post.

viewtopic.php?t=56720

[Bronco73idi]

Just watched a video Kirtland posted on the Logan temple. It was good, the Utah temples were rooted in polygamy. The story of the Nephite warriors were to protect records from the US government. The story of Satan slowing work in the temple happened after 1890, the video said 1893 and lasted 12 years.

The story of the foundation where they dug 2 feet deep into compact gravel and Brigham said build on it, it goes down deep. Later it was surveyed with modern equipment and found that the compact gravel was roughly 1000 feet deep.

Judge by the fruits

Kirtland post

viewtopic.php?t=71496&sid=8369d5d5bb754 ... 98865336f9

[Luke]

This sums up William Clayton’s claims better than I could. Compliments to the author of this gem of a post.

viewtopic.php?t=56720

All five points I brought up then I have since thoroughly debunked elsewhere. There’s no evidence whatsoever for any of those things. I remember writing those original posts and thinking, “I’m really clutching at straws here”.

[cab]

There is no clutching at straws when you acknowledge that William Clayton is a sicko.

[Luke]

There is no clutching at straws when you acknowledge that William Clayton is a sicko.

Michelle is a loon

[Shawn Henry]

Angels threatening to kill you are a dead giveaway for what side they are working for. God's angels always respect agency.

[Robin Hood]

What are your thoughts on section 132 not being carried out the way that you believe it was written? Many of the leaders married women who were already married at the time, or had been married, and were not virgins as 132 says they are supposed to be. Do you believe they broke the law? Why would an angel with a flaming sword be needed to force Joseph to follow the law, but not needed when he didn't follow it properly? Section 132 mentions the law of Sarah. Do you think Joseph and others followed that by first asking their first wife?
(I am not attacking you, or your beliefs. I just know you know a lot about plural marriage and its history so I figured I would ask you.)

I think a woman who is faithful to her marriage vows is considered a virgin in the context of plural marriage doctrine.

[Reluctant Watchman]

180 years of deception.

[Cruiserdude]

180 years of deception.

Glad to see you around RW

[Reluctant Watchman]

180 years of deception.

Glad to see you around RW

Just got home from a week-long vaca to the Cali redwoods and Oregon coast. It was nice to set aside phones and such. The weather was amazing, mid to high 60s all week.

[JLHPROF]

Angels threatening to kill you are a dead giveaway for what side they are working for. God's angels always respect agency.

Have you even read scripture?
God constantly threatened lives for disobedience to his commands.
The list of examples is huge.

[cab]

There is no clutching at straws when you acknowledge that William Clayton is a sicko.

Michelle is a loon

Only when talking about that wackiness of Mormon polygamy

[SJR3t2]

JS only fought against polygamy
1835 D&C section 101, last edition while Joseph Smith was alive. The only major church that removed it was the LDS church. It states one man and one wife, to marry in public where everyone can see it, and that polygamy is a crime.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/marriage/

Jacob 1:15 And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king [ruler, Brigham Young], began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/marriage/

[JLHPROF]

JS only fought against polygamy
1835 D&C section 101, last edition while Joseph Smith was alive. The only major church that removed it was the LDS church. It states one man and one wife, to marry in public where everyone can see it, and that polygamy is a crime.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/marriage/

Again the old D&C 101 wasn't a revelation. It was a policy statement. God had nothing to say in it.
When read in its entirety it has nothing of eternal marriage, sealing in heaven, and gives marriage authority to an Aaronic priest. It emphasizes legal marriage, accepts interfaith, and marriage authority of other sectarian religions.

In short, it was completely wrong on so many issues other than polygamy it's no wonder it was removed.
Joseph had learned contrary doctrine by revelation and was publicly teaching and acting contrary to it even before polygamy practice began to spread.
If polygamy were never mentioned it would still be bad scripture.

[Erastothenes]

Warren Jeffs and his ilk are celebrating along with you.

[SJR3t2]

JS only fought against polygamy
1835 D&C section 101, last edition while Joseph Smith was alive. The only major church that removed it was the LDS church. It states one man and one wife, to marry in public where everyone can see it, and that polygamy is a crime.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/marriage/

Again the old D&C 101 wasn't a revelation. It was a policy statement. God had nothing to say in it.
When read in its entirety it has nothing of eternal marriage, sealing in heaven, and gives marriage authority to an Aaronic priest. It emphasizes legal marriage, accepts interfaith, and marriage authority of other sectarian religions.

In short, it was completely wrong on so many issues other than polygamy it's no wonder it was removed.
Joseph had learned contrary doctrine by revelation and was publicly teaching and acting contrary to it even before polygamy practice began to spread.
If polygamy were never mentioned it would still be bad scripture.

D&C 42 was a revelation and it taught the same thing. FYI everyone voted that it was the doctrine of the church https://seekingyhwh.org/lectures-on-fai ... -assembly/. You must not accept D&C 42 as revelation then as it doesn't have those things either.

The only group that removed it was the Brighamites, and boy Brighamites are wrong on so many things https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/lds/ even the COB shows who they realy worship.

How it may be asked was this known to be a bad angel? ... by his contradicting a former revelation.
(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 3 [April 1, 1842]: 747)"

2 Nephi (LDS 26:32-33) (RLDS 11:110-115)
32 And again, the Lord God hath commanded that men should not murder; that they should not lie; that they should not steal; that they should not take the name of the Lord their God in vain; that they should not envy; that they should not have malice; that they should not contend one with another; that they should not commit whoredoms; and that they should do none of these things; for whoso doeth them shall perish. 33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord;

The BoM teaches something different about sealings than what the LDS church does.
This is the sealing power, to pronounce what heaven has already been decreed, because those who have the sealing power will do nothing with it except what the Father wants done. We know Nephi “sought [God’s] will and to keep [God’s] commandments” because God attributed this to Nephi in Helaman (LDS 10:4) (RLDS 3:115-116). In the next verse God adds more emphasis to this idea, “for thou [Nephi] shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will” Helaman (LDS 10:5) (RLDS 3:117).
https://seekingyhwh.org/2018/04/30/sealing-power/

[Luke]

Warren Jeffs and his ilk are celebrating along with you.

And Muslims (including terrorists) are awaiting the return of Jesus along with us. So what?

[Shawn Henry]

How it may be asked was this known to be a bad angel? ... by his contradicting a former revelation.
(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 3 [April 1, 1842]: 747)"

A warning with an embedded prophecy.

Not only are former revelations contradicted, but the very words of the Savior: Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

Isn't a categoric condemnation odd when the Savior has the foreknowledge of times to come? I mean, shouldn't he have said, "which thing was abominable before me when not done in the right context"? I thought he knew his own plan of salvation. Why mess up and give a complete condemnation when you have plans to change the abomination into a higher and holier law.

I'm glad the God I worship doesn't vary from that which he has said, either to the left or to the right.

[Teancum1]

JS only fought against polygamy
1835 D&C section 101, last edition while Joseph Smith was alive. The only major church that removed it was the LDS church. It states one man and one wife, to marry in public where everyone can see it, and that polygamy is a crime.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/marriage/

D&C 49:15-16 was a revelation as well.

15 And again, verily I say unto you, that whoso forbiddeth to marry is not ordained of God, for marriage is ordained of God unto man.
16 Wherefore, it is lawful that he should have one wife, and they twain shall be one flesh, and all this that the earth might answer the end of its creation;
17 And that it might be filled with the measure of man, according to his creation before the world was made.

Again the old D&C 101 wasn't a revelation. It was a policy statement. God had nothing to say in it.
When read in its entirety it has nothing of eternal marriage, sealing in heaven, and gives marriage authority to an Aaronic priest. It emphasizes legal marriage, accepts interfaith, and marriage authority of other sectarian religions.

In short, it was completely wrong on so many issues other than polygamy it's no wonder it was removed.
Joseph had learned contrary doctrine by revelation and was publicly teaching and acting contrary to it even before polygamy practice began to spread.
If polygamy were never mentioned it would still be bad scripture.

[randyps]

How it may be asked was this known to be a bad angel? ... by his contradicting a former revelation.
(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 3 [April 1, 1842]: 747)"

A warning with an embedded prophecy.

Not only are former revelations contradicted, but the very words of the Savior: Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

Isn't a categoric condemnation odd when the Savior has the foreknowledge of times to come? I mean, shouldn't he have said, "which thing was abominable before me when not done in the right context"? I thought he knew his own plan of salvation. Why mess up and give a complete condemnation when you have plans to change the abomination into a higher and holier law.

I'm glad the God I worship doesn't vary from that which he has said, either to the left or to the right.

Unless there is an audio recording of his voice, God didnt say nothing to no one in the history of this world.
God told me to go back to church, not literally but by the impression of the holy ghost, so no, there was no words spoken from God to me.
The scriptures contain second hand accounts of what so-and-so said God told them. Most of those 1st hand accounts are nothing more then impressions, visions, dreams etc.. to guide mankind in the right direction.

Whats important is what God is saying to you and your heart. The impressions you get could be totally opposite of what another person receive because we are all on our own journey.

God told me to go back to church
God also told many others to leave the church

[SJR3t2]

How it may be asked was this known to be a bad angel? ... by his contradicting a former revelation.
(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 3 [April 1, 1842]: 747)"

A warning with an embedded prophecy.

Not only are former revelations contradicted, but the very words of the Savior: Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

Isn't a categoric condemnation odd when the Savior has the foreknowledge of times to come? I mean, shouldn't he have said, "which thing was abominable before me when not done in the right context"? I thought he knew his own plan of salvation. Why mess up and give a complete condemnation when you have plans to change the abomination into a higher and holier law.

I'm glad the God I worship doesn't vary from that which he has said, either to the left or to the right.

I don't believe JS practiced polygamy.

Jacob 1:15 And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king [ruler, Brigham Young], began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/marriage/

[Shawn Henry]

How it may be asked was this known to be a bad angel? ... by his contradicting a former revelation.
(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 3 [April 1, 1842]: 747)"

A warning with an embedded prophecy.

Not only are former revelations contradicted, but the very words of the Savior: Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

Isn't a categoric condemnation odd when the Savior has the foreknowledge of times to come? I mean, shouldn't he have said, "which thing was abominable before me when not done in the right context"? I thought he knew his own plan of salvation. Why mess up and give a complete condemnation when you have plans to change the abomination into a higher and holier law.

I'm glad the God I worship doesn't vary from that which he has said, either to the left or to the right.

Unless there is an audio recording of his voice, God didnt say nothing to no one in the history of this world.
God told me to go back to church, not literally but by the impression of the holy ghost, so no, there was no words spoken from God to me.
The scriptures contain second hand accounts of what so-and-so said God told them. Most of those 1st hand accounts are nothing more then impressions, visions, dreams etc.. to guide mankind in the right direction.

Whats important is what God is saying to you and your heart. The impressions you get could be totally opposite of what another person receive because we are all on our own journey.

God told me to go back to church
God also told many others to leave the church

Well, it's a good thing the Prophet Jacob didn't get any "impressions" but was told directly by the spirit to go to the temple and that he would be given the words of the Savior. He is quoting the Lord, which is why he ended it with "saith the Lord".

The Holy Spirit is the means we have to know that those words are true. Nothing can change the fact the scriptures are the standard that we are told to cling to, the Iron Rod for our lives. Impressions can be counterfeited, that's why we test everything against the word of God.