Happy Father's Day Father! From The Book Of Mormon Believers

[CaptainM]

Thank you Father for condescending to come down to Earth into a body of flesh and performing the infinite atonement in our behalf. We love thee, and hope by thy grace and mercy to come back to thee forever.

Title Page
And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting Himself unto all nations.

1 Nephi 11:18 (Original Manuscript)
18)And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh.

2 Nephi 10:7
But behold, thus saith the Lord God: When the day cometh that they shall believe in me, that I am Christ, then have I covenanted with their fathers that they shall be restored in the flesh, upon the earth, unto the lands of their inheritance.

2 Nephi 25:29
And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

2 Nephi 11:7
For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.

2 Nephi 26:12
And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

Mosiah 3:5
For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

Mosiah 15:1-4
1)AND now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2)And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son-
3)The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son-
4)And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

Ether 3:14
Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

Ether 4:7
And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

Ether 4:12
And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me-that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold, I am the Father, I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

AND MANY MORE...

Your thought?

[BuriedTartaria]

We have many fathers. I can think of at least four: Heavenly Father commonly referred to as Elohim, whether or not that is really his name is how I will name him in this post. There is Jesus Christ-Father, Jehovah of the Old Testament. Under Heavenly Father (perhaps under his authority), he created worlds without number including this one and has atoned for all of it, he has purchased all of it. Elohim is my father but Jehovah has saved me and purchased me and is my father as well. Father Adam is one of my fathers. Abraham is one of my fathers. His seed being as the individual grains of sand on the shore will take more than the number of mortals on this earth to reach, Abraham is probably headed for an ascent to greater creation in the future, as blasphemous as Christianity would perceive this statement, he will probably be a Christ/Atonement performer in the future and ascend to where Christ is eventually, certainly other choice spirits will as well. At some point Jehovah will likely perform a supervisor role similar to Elohim where Jehovah has to watch a sinless creation of his perform an atonement and Jehovah will know exactly what that is like and it will pain him beyond mortal comprehension when he has to step away as that atonement is happening just as what happened with Elohim having to withdraw during Christ's atonement, search the scriptures, the pattern of the son doing what the father did and ascending to the throne of God is clearly there. Noah is one of my fathers. We need the religion of the fathers from the Old Testament to come to this earth again.


Jehovah speaking from Moses: I am Messiah, the King of Zion, the Rock of Heaven, which is broad as eternity; and whoever comes in at the gate and climbs up by me shall never fall.

"climbs up by me".

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

"the works that I do shall he do also".

I think there are souls climbing up and walking Christ's path. I think the very next step for Michael (Adam) is to play the role of savior, the role of what Jehovah has done for what we understand as our universe, and my assumption is Jehovah will play the role of Heavenly Father-Elohim for that cycle of creation. Perhaps Abraham will be the Michael of that cycle of creation.

I understand why the trinitarian take on Elohim and Jehovah exists but I think Jehovah ascended to Elohim's level and in the process we became sons and daughters to Jehovah just as we are sons and daughters of Elohim. Elohim and Jehovah are both the rank of Heavenly Father but Jehovah was our brother who stepped in, with the power, the credentials, the ability, to save creation as he knew the upcoming plan to provide an earth for Elohim's creations to grow was certainly going to fall into sin, be unfit of returning to the Father and need someone to descend below everything to save all these creations. In that process he goes from being our older brother to buying all of this with his blood and gaining fathership/ownership of all of this. and Elohim was our original Heavenly Father and still is our Heavenly Father along side Jehovah being our Heavenly Father too.

That's my take

[simpleton]

1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled......

They are One, and we can become One with Them
.......

That it is what it us all about...

[TheChristian]

Here is the founding Father of your Religion apon the matter.
His first account of his vision claims he only seen one God not two, his book of mormon attests very, very clearly to this one God of whom He is, that He is Jesus and that He is the Father and the Son.
Then there is his translation of the bible, were he states clearly that Jesus is both the Father and the Son.
All three evidences are from Josephs earlier days.

“All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father,
and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it.”
(JST of the Bible , Luke 10...22)

If one reflects apon your founding Fathers correction of the Bible apon this matter, then one must also ponder apon his early claims in his translation of his book of mormon concerning the Father and the Son being Jesus and his earliest account of seeing only one God in Vision "Jesus".

[Shawn Henry]

We have many fathers.

Indeed, but we have only one with a capital F.

Like Captain M posted, Christ is the very Eternal Father. I know it gets confusing and complicated but trust the BoM.

[Shawn Henry]

Is anyone else warming up to the BoM language that Jesus is the very Eternal Father of heaven and earth?

An intellectual question here: Why the following JST change?

From this:

All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

To this:

Luke 10:23 All things are delivered to me of my Father; and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it.

Clearly, we are talking about the same Father here (capital F), right?

[Reluctant Watchman]

The BoM believers clearly had an identity crisis with God... apparently... ^^^

3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

[Nobody]

This very topic is one of the main items that have contributed to my current position, which is that I found that I do reject virtually everything that came from the LDS church after ~1832. To be honest, the only thing that has me clinging to the Restoration at all are 3 very powerful spiritual experiences where I was fully immersed in fire and Holy Ghost.

One left me with an immediate desire to read the Book of Mormon, which turned my life around.

Another was later in life and occurred directly after reading the Book of Mormon as I pondered and prayed about what the Book said.

Another happened as I directly quoted Alma, saying “Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me”.

Is the Book of Mormon fiction? Could God be merciful enough to bestow such blessing upon me , even if what I read is a fictional book? Perhaps.

But I know the extent to which God had gone to convince me of His love and His existence, so I can only hope for such an experience again to confirm to me whether or not I should continue to embrace the Restoration. Short of such an answer, I’ll have to remain where I am, embracing only the first few years of the Restoration, feeling out of place.

[cab]

This very topic is one of the main items that have contributed to my current position, which is that I found that I do reject virtually everything that came from the LDS church after ~1832. To be honest, the only thing that has me clinging to the Restoration at all are 3 very powerful spiritual experiences where I was fully immersed in fire and Holy Ghost.

One left me with an immediate desire to read the Book of Mormon, which turned my life around.

Another was later in life and occurred directly after reading the Book of Mormon as I pondered and prayed about what the Book said.

Another happened as I directly quoted Alma, saying “Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me”.

Is the Book of Mormon fiction? Could God be merciful enough to bestow such blessing upon me , even if what I read is a fictional book? Perhaps.

But I know the extent to which God had gone to convince me of His love and His existence, so I can only hope for such an experience again to confirm to me whether or not I should continue to embrace the Restoration. Short of such an answer, I’ll have to remain where I am, embracing only the first few years of the Restoration, feeling out of place.

I too find myself out of place. While I don’t have a hard line drawn as to where things went off the rails, I do conclude that it seems to have gone off the rails long ago. This, in my view, makes us just the most recent version of all apostate sects.
I find immense value in the Book of Mormon for one reason. It is the best treatise of born again doctrine that I am aware of and comes closer to approximating what I have experienced first hand than any other would-be scripture that I am aware of. It is like a voice crying in the wilderness, even among those who hold it dearly and yet don’t seem to understand the value of what the book contains.
I no longer see with Mormon-centric glasses, as I believe true and transformative first hand relationship with God may come from all sorts of unconventional means - Mormon doctrine being just one of them.
Surely the gate is narrow and strait, requiring a broken heart and absolute submission to who has been called Father. However, there appear to be many individualized pathways for those who have entered therein on this amazing hero’s journey. Our God is amazing.

[sushi_chef]

so, that may mean reading the book of mormon (or other scripture like book of commandments) with each one's own spiritual conviction(confirmation, experiences) may bring different type of faith for each .., correct?!

[Bronco73idi]

This very topic is one of the main items that have contributed to my current position, which is that I found that I do reject virtually everything that came from the LDS church after ~1832. To be honest, the only thing that has me clinging to the Restoration at all are 3 very powerful spiritual experiences where I was fully immersed in fire and Holy Ghost.

One left me with an immediate desire to read the Book of Mormon, which turned my life around.

Another was later in life and occurred directly after reading the Book of Mormon as I pondered and prayed about what the Book said.

Another happened as I directly quoted Alma, saying “Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me”.

Is the Book of Mormon fiction? Could God be merciful enough to bestow such blessing upon me , even if what I read is a fictional book? Perhaps.

But I know the extent to which God had gone to convince me of His love and His existence, so I can only hope for such an experience again to confirm to me whether or not I should continue to embrace the Restoration. Short of such an answer, I’ll have to remain where I am, embracing only the first few years of the Restoration, feeling out of place.

Gospel of Thomas
15 Jesus said: When you see him who was not born of woman, fall down upon your faces and worship him; that one is your Father.

[ransomme]

1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled......

They are One, and we can become One with Them
.......

That it is what it us all about...

I think that Jesus' own words are the most definitive (obviously right?).

He clearly lays out the relationship here, establishes progression, related concepts, etc.

[simpleton]

1.“I say to all those who are disposed to set up stakes for the Almighty, You will come short of the glory of God. To become a joint heir of the heirship of the Son, one must put away all his false traditions.”

Just the claim of JS, that he saw the Father and the Son as two separate distinct individual Beings, set the whole Christian world on fire against him.
Why? It went against their "tradition", Imo, their "false tradition", as pertaining to the Godhead.
To me, the idea of a three in one blob, does not make sense, which is why I quoted the Saviors prayer above. It is much more logical (to me) that They are One in mind and purpose in all things.
All may believe as they please, God will never take the agency of man away. But I think that Satan has great power over the mind of man, and has been quite successful in appealing to the carnal lusts of man and in teaching mankind false traditions that we cannot seem to shake off.
I do believe that all of those above quotes of the oped (and many more) are just simply to show the "One-ness" of the Father and the Son and also that we may become "one" with Them, truly "One" with Them. But only, if we completely put off the natural man and become like a child.
"To bring about the eternal life of man", that is the whole reason for everything. To become "one" is the whole reason for everything. And unless we become "one" we can in no-wise, become "one" with the Father and His Son".
But then, along comes the tempter and pollutes our minds, teaching us false traditions, and they are practically almost impossible to shake off. But yet they can be shaken off, but only with God's help and knowledge. Everything that the tempter does appeals to the flesh, whereas God's ways appeal to the spirit of man, hence the reason to deny the flesh, or to "put off the natural man".
We want a god that winks at all of our sins and follies. Hence the endless false gods that we have and worship. We do not like the idea of being purged like gold and silver through the furnace of affliction/fire. But yet, to become like JC, whom did go through raging fire of affliction and persecution, to become like Him, we must go through somewhat similiar things. That is why His apostles rejoiced to be able to suffer like/for Him.

[John Tavner]

Interesting fact : Personage used as a "distinct" person was actually the least common usage of hte word back in the 1800's All Joseph was saying, if he had the visoin was He saw two characters when He saw Jesus - He saw the Father and the Son. Two personages, two characters/actprs. "Father and Son" not "two distinct individuals"

[Shawn Henry]

Interesting fact : Personage used as a "distinct" person was actually the least common usage of hte word back in the 1800's All Joseph was saying, if he had the visoin was He saw two characters when He saw Jesus - He saw the Father and the Son. Two personages, two characters/actprs. "Father and Son" not "two distinct individuals"

As I see it, the only time you would use the word personage is when the word person doesn't fit, yet one person can easily have two personages.