Nothing Burger of the Year

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Light Seeker
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Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Light Seeker »

I have copied from LDSAbuse.info the correspondence between Endless Questions and his Stake President regarding meeting with few of the Brethren regarding their affiliations with Secret Societies.

Request to Meet With Elders Ballard and Christofferson Denied
June 3, 2023|Featured, My Story, Secret Societies


An update on my request to meet with various global leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regarding my concerns, which are outlined in other posts on this blog. I believe the communications speak for themselves, and will simply leave them here to document this particular step in the process.


May 25th, 2023 - My Message to the Stake President

Hi President Steanson,

I just wanted to follow up on this. I know that it's a pretty complicated task to arrange what I've requested, and I'm in no hurry, but I do want to make sure I have a clear understanding of how the process works and when I should expect to have some kind of answer so I can continue moving forward in my own learning, growing, and healing process. Are you able to give me an estimate as to when we expect to hear back from the leaders I've requested to meet with?

If I can do anything to be of assistance, such as drafting an introductory letter or proposed agenda that you can pass along to Elders Clayton, Christofferson, Ballard, or Brother Larson, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'm happy to make this as easy on everyone as possible, as I'm keenly aware of how busy these men are.

Thanks,
Justin


May 28th, 2023 - Response #1 From the Stake President

Justin,

I ended up deciding to contact each persons secretary. They each gave me an email address, and I forwarded your request directly to them. The only responses I have had back yet was one of them asking for your full name.

I reached out to the confidential records folks for a report, and he said the contact you noted through the data privacy office was the way to go and that you are able to do that directly. He said that by email is the best route as I believe it will act as a written request.

I will let you know when I hear anything back, but I have no idea of a time table.


June 2, 2023 - Response #2 From the Stake President

Justin,
President Ballard's secretary called me and filled me in on their discussions. She said that Elder Christofferson and he talked together since your request was for both of them, and that they asked her to relay their thoughts to me.
Key points that they made that they wanted to make sure were passed along to you:

They are concerned that the pattern of thinking you are on leads to apostasy. This was the first point that was made, and it took me back to the discussion you and I had outside the Temple.
There are no secret societies at work within the Church.
They will not be meeting with you to discuss this topic.

I know that this is not what you were hoping for. I don't have any profound things to say in regards to your concerns or struggles with this topic, other than to say that the fruits of these mens work provides me with the confidence I need that they are serving the Lord the best way they know how and not any secret, personal interests.
I will be in Church in Dickson this weekend, but we have a lot of family in town with graduation and wedding receptions this weekend and will be leaving right after the block.
Let me know your thoughts.


June 4, 2023 - My Response to the Denial of My Request

President Steanson,

I apologize for the delay in getting back to you since your last message. I was ill last weekend, and then my parents and brother came into town this week, so I have been focusing on spending some good quality time with them and my family.

First and foremost, thank you very much for making the effort you have over the past several months. The good faith effort you put in to escalate this to the global leadership means a great deal to me, and I will always have good memories about "doing the hard thing" of working through this with you, and at least having the opportunity to have these men review my request and make a determination as to whether or not they would be willing to discuss it with me.

As you mentioned, this is what I would consider a sub-optimal outcome in regard to these two requests. I continue to have confusion about how "the pattern of thinking I am on leads to apostasy". I asked for some clarification on this a couple months ago in an email and don't think I received a reply; I guess on this point I would just renew my request to understand:

a) What specific behavior it is I'm engaging in that is leading my leaders to be concerned that I will apostatize? I've worked very hard to counsel with you, my Elder's Quorum President, my therapist, my wife, and many other trusted friends, some of whom are or have been bishops, served in stake presidencies, and sat on high councils around the world, to do all I can to ensure that the questions I'm asking have merit and are reasonable, rational, and stem strictly from the publicly available evidence I've been able to locate through my efforts to gather intelligence regarding the men and women in church leadership who are affiliated with secret societies that appear to be acting in ways that place and keep themselves, their secret society brethren and sisters, and other extended family members in positions of power, influence, and gain.

b) What specific counsel do my Church leaders have for me in regards to correcting whatever behavior it is that concerns them? As I mentioned before, I'm highly interested in showing through both word and deed that I am willing to both receive and follow counsel from my leaders - but in order to do that I need to receive specific, concrete counsel which can be followed.

If those in the Church hierarchy aren't willing to discuss the evidence I've brought to light on an individual level, it is my understanding that scripturally, I've fulfilled the first part of Matthew 18:15-16, which instructs us to try to resolve differences between ourselves and those directly involved. It seems to me that the next step in this process is to bring forward witnesses for any claims I may be prepared to make, "that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established". Is that your understanding as well?

To be very specific, based on the evidence, I feel prepared to take the position that there is a group of men in the Church who disregarded prophetic counsel, ignored official Church policy and procedure, and most importantly, perjured themselves to procure temple recommends (meaning they willfully told untruths). The specific temple recommend question I'm referring to is this one, which for decades read:

7) Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

While I'm not prepared to claim that I am certain my interpretation of the question is the official or only acceptable one, I do feel there is a legitimate dispute here, and I think it appropriate based on the teachings of the scriptures to ask that it be properly adjudicated inside the Church disciplinary system.

That being said, I guess my next question is this: how does a lay member of the Church instigate a request for disciplinary proceedings for those who sit in positions of leadership in the Church hierarchy? Historically there seems to have been a clear understanding, and perhaps some policies and/or procedures in regards to how to achieve this, as Joseph Smith himself was brought before the high council in situations in which church members felt he had acted in ways that were not in accordance with the gospel of Jesus Christ. In the modern Church, however, I'm not able to locate anyone who seems to have an understanding of how this would work, or a set of clearly defined policies or procedures. Would you please, as the presiding authority in our stake, work with global Church leadership to provide me a clear answer, preferably on Church letterhead, as to how this is accomplished in today's Church? Clearly, there must be a way to hold our leaders accountable should even the least of us discover a leader has engaged in or is engaging in behavior that contradicts prophetic guidance, official Church policy, the gospel of Jesus Christ as outlined in the standard works, or the laws of the land, correct?

I don't ask this to be obtuse; I ask because despite my best efforts, I have not been able to ascertain how this process works in the modern Church. This article does a very good job outlining some of the history behind Church discipline, but I can find no section of the current iteration of the Handbook that addresses my question clearly and directly. It does quote Elder Ballard directly, so since you've already established contact with him, perhaps he would be a good person to ask.

Please note, I am not making any specific allegation against any individual, or asking for any disciplinary to be initiated at this point; I am simply seeking to understand how the process works in today's Church.

I appreciate your testimony regarding these brethren and your confidence in them based on your observations. I've counseled with many who have had direct interactions with our leadership over the years who share your point of view. I want you to know that I continue to pray about this, and have great faith that, just as you and I were able to come to a place of understanding regarding your membership in a secret society, satisfactory answers will be forthcoming if everyone involved acts in good faith and as our Master has directed us to through the revelations He has provided for our governance.

I'll look forward to receiving your response at your earliest convenience.

Sincerely Yours,

Justin

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HereWeGo
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by HereWeGo »

When a person runs into a house which is burning down, at best, he will be horribly scarred and maimed. At worst, he will not exit alive.

I don't see a good outcome for Justin.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Ymarsakar »

viewtopic.php?t=70819

Here is my little own contribution to the red seats as well.

I surmise that the secret societies reads these forums, so I accept their non response as a response.

And if they are not reading these forums... oh well, too bad, so sad.

Thanks goes to everyone who contributed to ferreting out the truth. Whether you got it or not.

"They are concerned that the pattern of thinking you are on leads to apostasy. "

Oh, if I detect something like that in you, I will usually tell you so, directly or in a pm.

I'm just like that.

"other than to say that the fruits of these mens work provides me with the confidence I need that they are serving the Lord the best way they know how and not any secret, personal interests."

If their alter personas are functioning and the adrenochrome supply lasts, sure. Now let me be clear, I have not precisely located who the guilty secret combine members are. I have heard a lot of accusations, and I am still busy ferreting them out. Given that some of the same people here also think Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, Donald, or Vladimir or whatever, are also part of the enemy, makes things somewhat difficult to parse but I will get it all done in time. I've done it before.

This same thing happened with Ukraine in 2022. I had no idea there were nazi evil mongers there. Until they just sort of outed themselves via their Nuland type reactions.

Keep poking and prodding the red seats. It doesn't matter what their response to you as individuals are. God is always watching and waiting. If they make a single mistake like they did on Ukraine...

I have heard enough witnesses to see the smoke. All I need now is to locate the fire.

"That being said, I guess my next question is this: how does a lay member of the Church instigate a request for disciplinary proceedings for those who sit in positions of leadership in the Church hierarchy? Historically there seems to have been a clear understanding, and perhaps some policies and/or procedures in regards to how to achieve this, as Joseph Smith himself was brought before the high council in situations in which church members felt he had acted in ways that were not in accordance with the gospel of Jesus Christ. In the modern Church, however, I'm not able to locate anyone who seems to have an understanding of how this would work, or a set of clearly defined policies or procedures. Would you please, as the presiding authority in our stake, work with global Church leadership to provide me a clear answer, preferably on Church letterhead, as to how this is accomplished in today's Church? Clearly, there must be a way to hold our leaders accountable should even the least of us discover a leader has engaged in or is engaging in behavior that contradicts prophetic guidance, official Church policy, the gospel of Jesus Christ as outlined in the standard works, or the laws of the land, correct?"

The best I can do to address this q is to point you to the sins of nato, ussa reich, and ukraine. They have been terrorizing nations and civilian populations for more than a decade. Yet no judgment was commenced against them. This is because their sins must reach heaven, which is to say, enough children of god here on Earth must observe the evidence and rulings. This is somewhat difficult for the LDS to do as they don't have a big market share of the world's attention. Kind of hard for the children for god in 98% of the world to judge and assess the evidence for 2%. But I will try to fast track the case through the divine courts. What people have already submitted is more than enough. More would be better. To clarify, the judgment I speak of is not human court judgments. It is a divine judgment. 200-300k Ukrainians are dead since 2022. NATO's own military is committing suicide and expending its material and substance in Ukraine.

The red seats are not gods or angels. They don't have mighty enough powers to withstand the heavens. They are kept safe only because they are well hidden, presumably.
Last edited by Ymarsakar on June 6th, 2023, 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I believe Justin is showing us a wonderful example of the "exercise of futility" when striving to have a dialog with church leaders. It isn't gonna happen.

4Joshua8
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by 4Joshua8 »

Several years ago, I tried to open a dialogue with senior church leadership through official channels (through bishop) about a problem in the church and was told by the bishop that he was concerned I was on the road to apostasy.

Church leaders can't process the truth. When faced with it, they always wave the apostasy wand to induce fear and to attempt to control the issue. This is because the cognitive dissonance hurts, and lashing out with threats that they'll consider you apostate, and all the exposure and shame that brings, helps them feel in control.

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Ebenezer
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Ebenezer »

Asking about the documented past of our dear and beloved leaders is an egregious breech of the Haynie doctrine.

Atrasado
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Atrasado »

Ebenezer wrote: June 6th, 2023, 10:43 am Asking about the documented past of our dear and beloved leaders is an egregious breech of the Haynie doctrine.
I prefer to call that the Haynie Heresy. I like the alliteration.

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Wolfwoman »

Is Endless Questions ever going to come back to the forum? Or did he say he was gone for good? Is he blogging now at that website? I haven’t checked it out.

Were Ballard and Christofferson involved in secret societies? I can’t remember who all was. I know Nelson was, and Robert Hales.

JuneBug12000
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by JuneBug12000 »

I would recommend a read of his May 23, 2023 with accompanying doc. The church's approval of recruitment for the "Agency" and how it might affect the church's reputation.

https://ldsabuse.info/blog/f/truth-endu ... -exception

JuneBug12000
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by JuneBug12000 »

Wolfwoman wrote: June 6th, 2023, 1:13 pm Is Endless Questions ever going to come back to the forum? Or did he say he was gone for good? Is he blogging now at that website? I haven’t checked it out.

Were Ballard and Christofferson involved in secret societies? I can’t remember who all was. I know Nelson was, and Robert Hales.
He's supposed to be back Oct. 7

Atrasado
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Atrasado »

I'm confused. Did you think that asking to bring charges against the Q15 was going to go somewhere? I think it was a rhetorical exercise that clearly shows that those men think they are untouchable.

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Chip
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Chip »

4Joshua8 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 10:38 am Several years ago, I tried to open a dialogue with senior church leadership through official channels (through bishop) about a problem in the church and was told by the bishop that he was concerned I was on the road to apostasy.

Church leaders can't process the truth. When faced with it, they always wave the apostasy wand to induce fear and to attempt to control the issue. This is because the cognitive dissonance hurts, and lashing out with threats that they'll consider you apostate, and all the exposure and shame that brings, helps them feel in control.

This is exactly how it works. It's just a matter of time that it runs its course.

Light Seeker
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Light Seeker »

Wolfwoman wrote: June 6th, 2023, 1:13 pm Is Endless Questions ever going to come back to the forum? Or did he say he was gone for good? Is he blogging now at that website? I haven’t checked it out.

Were Ballard and Christofferson involved in secret societies? I can’t remember who all was. I know Nelson was, and Robert Hales.
The website was setup by Justin and he posts every few days.

Ballard was Sigma Chi 1949
https://collections.lib.utah.edu/detail ... t_i=731862

Christofferson worked for the Judge on Watergate.

The Secret Society Spreadsheet Justin posted awhile back gives people the option of searching any and all Bishops, Stake, Mission and Temple Presidents, as well as the Brethren and their relations. It's a helpful tool.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Ymarsakar »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: June 6th, 2023, 10:11 am I believe Justin is showing us a wonderful example of the "exercise of futility" when striving to have a dialog with church leaders. It isn't gonna happen.
Anything can happen, for this is the apocalypse and the time of miracles.
4Joshua8 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 10:38 am Several years ago, I tried to open a dialogue with senior church leadership through official channels (through bishop) about a problem in the church and was told by the bishop that he was concerned I was on the road to apostasy.

Church leaders can't process the truth. When faced with it, they always wave the apostasy wand to induce fear and to attempt to control the issue. This is because the cognitive dissonance hurts, and lashing out with threats that they'll consider you apostate, and all the exposure and shame that brings, helps them feel in control.


The terminology is also very MK Ultra and Reich 4th like.

They are trying to say that you no longer believe what you used to believe, that Jeshua leads the church so every church corporate leader speaks with the authority of a god or god's son. So if you criticize or doubt a leader of the LDS< that is equivalent to forsaking your beliefs in Jeshua and the Godhead.

This is exactly in fact what the historical apostasy did with the Church of Rome and some other off branches. Inquisition, heresies, and unholy wars.

I have never used that terminology against anyone, now that I recall. Not even Heyl-El I would call an apostate. An apostate of what exactly?

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Dusty Wanderer
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

Light Seeker wrote: June 6th, 2023, 5:19 pm
Wolfwoman wrote: June 6th, 2023, 1:13 pm Is Endless Questions ever going to come back to the forum? Or did he say he was gone for good? Is he blogging now at that website? I haven’t checked it out.

Were Ballard and Christofferson involved in secret societies? I can’t remember who al l was. I know Nelson was, and Robert Hales.
The website was setup by Justin and he posts every few days.

Ballard was Sigma Chi 1949
https://collections.lib.utah.edu/detail ... t_i=731862

Christofferson worked for the Judge on Watergate.

The Secret Society Spreadsheet Justin posted awhile back gives people the option of searching any and all Bishops, Stake, Mission and Temple Presidents, as well as the Brethren and their relations. It's a helpful tool.
Hey Light Seeker, do you have the link to his website? Want to see that nothing burger of a spreadsheet. ;-)

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Honestly, if his bishop or stake president or whatever is also part of a secret society... Justin isn't going to get anywhere.

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by BuriedTartaria »

I hope that our Endless Questions is okay. He is missed.

Good & Global
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Good & Global »

I hope he is okay too. Although a juicy nothing burger with spiritually blind fry sauce is tempting the natural man.

Light Seeker
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by Light Seeker »

Dusty Wanderer wrote: June 6th, 2023, 7:13 pm
Light Seeker wrote: June 6th, 2023, 5:19 pm
Wolfwoman wrote: June 6th, 2023, 1:13 pm Is Endless Questions ever going to come back to the forum? Or did he say he was gone for good? Is he blogging now at that website? I haven’t checked it out.

Were Ballard and Christofferson involved in secret societies? I can’t remember who al l was. I know Nelson was, and Robert Hales.
The website was setup by Justin and he posts every few days.

Ballard was Sigma Chi 1949
https://collections.lib.utah.edu/detail ... t_i=731862

Christofferson worked for the Judge on Watergate.

The Secret Society Spreadsheet Justin posted awhile back gives people the option of searching any and all Bishops, Stake, Mission and Temple Presidents, as well as the Brethren and their relations. It's a helpful tool.
Hey Light Seeker, do you have the link to his website? Want to see that nothing burger of a spreadsheet. ;-)
https://github.com/LDSLeaderSecretSocie ... ty_Members

blitzinstripes
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Re: Nothing Burger of the Year

Post by blitzinstripes »

My personal feeling on that matter, is that Justin was given a calling and he performed it. Perhaps the reason behind it was not that the Q15 would actually admit wrongdoing and show transparency and remorse. Rather this may be a type of an Abinadi moment. Another nail in their coffin. Another testament that will stand against them. I look for more Abinadi, Samuel the Lamanite, and John the Baptist types to cry repentance as the end and judgement approaches. Voices crying in the wilderness against the corrupt establishment and the drunkards of Ephraim.

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