The Church is No Longer Ours

[The Red Pill]

The gospel as restored through Joseph Smith is true.

The current church is in full blown apostasy. Keys are not maintained when the organization has fallen into apostasy. This is true...or else there would have been no need for a restoration to begin with.

The gospel and the church are two very different things.

How do you explain the word of Christ that this is the last dispensation of the gospel, and His kingdom coming forth for the last time, which logically means it will not be destroyed by an apostasy?

It is the last dispensation of the gospel...and his kingdom did come forth via Joseph Smith and the restoration...

...then you are relying on YOUR logic, YOUR assumption that it won't be affected by apostasy. Isaiah has much to say about church leaders right before the second coming...it's not flattering.

Now, answer my questions.

[Obeone]

How do you explain the word of Christ that this is the last dispensation of the gospel, and His kingdom coming forth for the last time, which logically means it will not be destroyed by an apostasy?

It is the last dispensation of the gospel...and his kingdom did come forth via Joseph Smith and the restoration...

...then you are relying on YOUR logic, YOUR assumption that it won't be affected by apostasy.

There is nothing wrong with logic if it is based on true facts. Reason helps us to prepare for revelation of additional truths from God.

So if God said, His kingdom is coming forth for the last time. And you agree that it came forth via Joseph Smith. Then it must be still here. Otherwise, it was destroyed by an apostasy, and will have to come forth yet another time, making God a liar.

[Obeone]

[The Red Pill]

How do you explain the word of Christ that this is the last dispensation of the gospel, and His kingdom coming forth for the last time, which logically means it will not be destroyed by an apostasy?

It is the last dispensation of the gospel...and his kingdom did come forth via Joseph Smith and the restoration...

...then you are relying on YOUR logic, YOUR assumption that it won't be affected by apostasy.

There is nothing wrong with logic if it is based on true facts. Reason helps us to prepare for revelation of additional truths from God.

So if God said, His kingdom is coming forth for the last time. And you agree that it came forth via Joseph Smith. Then it must be still here. Otherwise, it was destroyed by an apostasy, and will have to come forth yet another time, making God a liar.

We are a lot closer on this than you think. The gospel is still here...we agree on that. It's the church administration that has gone off the rails and into apostasy. I would argue that the best part of the church lies in it's devout humble members that are faithful to their covenants, follow Christ and His gospel as restored via Joseph Smith and follow the scripture narrative instead of the pulpit narrative. These are the same people that are disgusted with the red-chair crowd because they see the damage they are doing.

Let's give Isaiah the benefit of the doubt on this. Can the gospel still exist on the earth even though the leadership has turned into the "drunkards of Ephraim" and "dumb dogs"? Absolutely it can.

If I read D&C 121 correctly...the power/authority/keys reside in our INDIVIDUAL righteousness. When we turn from that righteous path...amen to the authority of that man. Does leadership get a pass on this....NO WAY.

So...as long as there is a remnant of humble followers of Christ that are following the scripture narrative as opposed to the increasingly divergent pulpit narrative of Q15...who are true to their covenants and what Joseph Smith restored...the gospel is still on the earth.

Maybe this IS the test. Will we remain faithful to Christ and His gospel in spite of the arm of the flesh leadership of the administrative church going in a different direction??

Isaiah thought this to be the case.

[Obeone]

There is nothing wrong with logic if it is based on true facts. Reason helps us to prepare for revelation of additional truths from God.

So if God said, His kingdom is coming forth for the last time. And you agree that it came forth via Joseph Smith. Then it must be still here. Otherwise, it was destroyed by an apostasy, and will have to come forth yet another time, making God a liar.

We are a lot closer on this than you think. The gospel is still here...we agree on that. It's the church administration that has gone off the rails and into apostasy. I would argue that the best part of the church lies in it's devout humble members that are faithful to their covenants, follow Christ and His gospel as restored via Joseph Smith and follow the scripture narrative instead of the pulpit narrative. These are the same people that are disgusted with the red-chair crowd because they see the damage they are doing.

Let's give Isaiah the benefit of the doubt on this. Can the gospel still exist on the earth even though the leadership has turned into the "drunkards of Ephraim" and "dumb dogs"? Absolutely it can.

If I read D&C 121 correctly...the power/authority/keys reside in our INDIVIDUAL righteousness. When we turn from that righteous path...amen to the authority of that man. Does leadership get a pass on this....NO WAY.

So...as long as there is a remnant of humble followers of Christ that are following the scripture narrative as opposed to the increasingly divergent pulpit narrative of Q15...who are true to their covenants and what Joseph Smith restored...the gospel is still on the earth.

Maybe this IS the test. Will we remain faithful to Christ and His gospel in spite of the arm of the flesh leadership of the administrative church going in a different direction??

Isaiah thought this to be the case.

The keys of the Kingdom is authority to govern the use of the priesthood of God on earth, and the keys to govern the kingdom of God on earth. These keys are with Q15.

By fighting them you are fighting God and will lose.

The keys remain with Q15 because they:
1) were ordained by proper authority, and
2) are good men doing their best to honor God, despite of their mistakes. There mistakes are honest ones. This is why the keys continue with them.

This kingdom and keys will not be destroyed from the earth as long as the earth shall stand.

This is the key you are missing (pun intended). And you misinterpret Isaiah trying to support your error. It will not work. Misery will teach you this until you align yourself with the authority and kingdom of God. It is unwise to "kick against the pricks". Saul found that out, so will you.

[The Red Pill]

There is nothing wrong with logic if it is based on true facts. Reason helps us to prepare for revelation of additional truths from God.

So if God said, His kingdom is coming forth for the last time. And you agree that it came forth via Joseph Smith. Then it must be still here. Otherwise, it was destroyed by an apostasy, and will have to come forth yet another time, making God a liar.

We are a lot closer on this than you think. The gospel is still here...we agree on that. It's the church administration that has gone off the rails and into apostasy. I would argue that the best part of the church lies in it's devout humble members that are faithful to their covenants, follow Christ and His gospel as restored via Joseph Smith and follow the scripture narrative instead of the pulpit narrative. These are the same people that are disgusted with the red-chair crowd because they see the damage they are doing.

Let's give Isaiah the benefit of the doubt on this. Can the gospel still exist on the earth even though the leadership has turned into the "drunkards of Ephraim" and "dumb dogs"? Absolutely it can.

If I read D&C 121 correctly...the power/authority/keys reside in our INDIVIDUAL righteousness. When we turn from that righteous path...amen to the authority of that man. Does leadership get a pass on this....NO WAY.

So...as long as there is a remnant of humble followers of Christ that are following the scripture narrative as opposed to the increasingly divergent pulpit narrative of Q15...who are true to their covenants and what Joseph Smith restored...the gospel is still on the earth.

Maybe this IS the test. Will we remain faithful to Christ and His gospel in spite of the arm of the flesh leadership of the administrative church going in a different direction??

Isaiah thought this to be the case.

The keys of the Kingdom is authority to govern the use of the priesthood of God on earth, and the keys to govern the kingdom of God on earth. These keys are with Q15.

By fighting them you are fighting God and will lose.

The keys remain with Q15 because they:
1) were ordained by proper authority, and
2) are good men doing their best to honor God, despite of their mistakes. There mistakes are honest ones. This is why the keys continue with them.

This kingdom and keys will not be destroyed from the earth as long as the earth shall stand.

This is the key you are missing (pun intended). And you misinterpret Isaiah trying to support your error. It will not work. Misery will teach you this until you align yourself with the authority and kingdom of God. It is unwise to "kick against the pricks". Saul found that out, so will you.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

Q15 LOSES that authority just like anyone else who strays from a righteous path. The deadly-jab urging should be an indication to anyone paying attention. The August 12th letter was NOT inspired, the deadly-juice was NOT a godsend. They were dead wrong on EVERYTHING covid.

By their works brother...

You never answered my questions, by the way.

[Being There]

The Church is No Longer Ours ?
It hasn't been ours - for many years now.


The church hasn't been led by the Lord since Joseph Smith;
nor has any - so-called prophet received revelation since then.

Instead of being separate from the World and the peculiar people that we once were,
we lost that many many years ago, when the church wanted to be more popular in the eyes of the World,
and to fit in and be accepted by the World more.
And as time passed, the church has become more corrupt and more a part of Babylon -
joining with it in every way and following it's leaders and doing what they say -
instead of following the Lord and being led by Him and seeking His help and guidance,
the church makes it's own decisions - (business decisions) and has become more of a business -
a Corporate Conglomerate -getting Bigger and BIGGER - making Billions in Babylon -
with all their investments and ties with evil organizations.

as I've commented before.....

That's just the point - it's not Christ's church. It's a Corporation. A Corporate Conglomerate ***
So they need to defend it - their Corporate Conglomerate - know as the LDS church.
And try to defend all their lies - that have come to light - as those that aren't blind can plainly see.

The Lord left the church long long ago- so the leaders can continue to do
what they're are best at - investing in Babylon 100B and MAKING MONEY - for their business -
*** CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

Building Babylon BIGGER.
building expensive shopping malls for only the rich.

It's obvious the Lord's church has been corrupted by men that care more about making money - $100B+
Building Babylon Bigger, than they do in sharing the true Gospel and doctrine of Christ
and being an example of it.

The church is really a corporate conglomerate -
The Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter - day Saints.
"The Mormon church is actually a corporate conglomerate.
Behind the religious front are dozens of companies earning hundreds of millions of dollars a year." .

I guess that's the goal of the restored gospel - is to make as much money as it can. (100B+)
so we can build Billion dollar Shopping Malls and lead the way in Babylon, and show just what a great example
we are to all the World.

And I was unaware that this was one of the responsibilities of prophets and apostles
and what the Lord would want them to be doing.

"When it came time to cut the mall’s flouncy pink ribbon, Monson, flanked by Utah dignitaries, cheered,
"1 2 3 Let's Go Shopping!"



"Worldly philosophies have rooted themselves in the decisions made by church leaders
and are growing ever more compatible with the teachings of the church.
These decisions (not revelations) and changes the church has made over the years -
are the result of giving into the pressures of Babylon.
In these modern times, instead of still being the peculiar people that we once were before,
the church changes according to the whims of society.

“A ‘true’ church doesn’t change its doctrines at the whims of society and the pressures
of ever-changing and evolving morals and values.
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and so should His church be,
and to change would be to cave in on what it stands for.”


The church is in total apostasy.

"if you had ever questioned if Nelson was a false prophet, and whether or not
the church had gone astray,
I think that question has been answered for you.

""ONE GREAT GLOBAL FAMILY"
Pres. Nelson
(sounds more like what satan (the god of this world) would say)


**********
"The actions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are directed first and foremost
at protecting their interests in Babylon; which they play a big part in.
With their great efforts at being "Good Global Citizens", and Agenda 2030.
and with "The LDS Church is also donating millions of dollars to Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance
(founded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation), which is very much involved in the the
COVID-19 vaccine race.
They also donate to W.H.O. and others."
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 1#p1055711

The church has united with the Great and Abominable Church, -
We've "joined " and "united" with it. (which we were warned not to do)
2 Nephi 6

12 And blessed are the Gentiles, they of whom the prophet has written; for behold,
if it so be that they shall repent and fight not against Zion, and do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church
* ( so, this verse shows that there is a possibility that this could happen. and it has.


Dictionary
hinge -
"attach or join with or as if with a hinge"

This is what President Nelson said:
"This is a hinge point in the history of the church."

I wouldn't want to be shaking hands with this guy.
The pope is a leading figure in the NWO trying to unite all religions. ie ( the Great and Abominable Church )

"If you are in a church organization which looks on world unity
and ecumenical efforts as desirable, YOU ARE IN the Whore Church,
and you will either get OUT of her, or you will be damned to hell and consumed
by the wrath of a holy God. "

Rome Temple dedication - and meeting with the pope,
President Nelson said:
"This is a hinge point in the history of the church.
Things are going to move forward at an accelerated pace, of which this is a part,"

"His Holiness, he was most gracious and warm and welcoming," ,
"What a sweet, wonderful man he is, and how fortunate the Catholic people are to have such a gracious,
concerned, loving and capable leader."

The pope is also most likely the "false prophet" in Rev 19:20
and could be the "another beast" in Revelation 13: 11
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... t#p1022271

[Obeone]

You never answered my questions, by the way.

I answered all of the questions you raised multiple times (ad nauseam) in previous posts.
Please search through my posts, and you will find them.

Cheers.

[Christianlee]

What if this Church has the keys?

https://theremnantchurch.com/

[InfoWarrior82]

There is nothing wrong with logic if it is based on true facts. Reason helps us to prepare for revelation of additional truths from God.

So if God said, His kingdom is coming forth for the last time. And you agree that it came forth via Joseph Smith. Then it must be still here. Otherwise, it was destroyed by an apostasy, and will have to come forth yet another time, making God a liar.

We are a lot closer on this than you think. The gospel is still here...we agree on that. It's the church administration that has gone off the rails and into apostasy. I would argue that the best part of the church lies in it's devout humble members that are faithful to their covenants, follow Christ and His gospel as restored via Joseph Smith and follow the scripture narrative instead of the pulpit narrative. These are the same people that are disgusted with the red-chair crowd because they see the damage they are doing.

Let's give Isaiah the benefit of the doubt on this. Can the gospel still exist on the earth even though the leadership has turned into the "drunkards of Ephraim" and "dumb dogs"? Absolutely it can.

If I read D&C 121 correctly...the power/authority/keys reside in our INDIVIDUAL righteousness. When we turn from that righteous path...amen to the authority of that man. Does leadership get a pass on this....NO WAY.

So...as long as there is a remnant of humble followers of Christ that are following the scripture narrative as opposed to the increasingly divergent pulpit narrative of Q15...who are true to their covenants and what Joseph Smith restored...the gospel is still on the earth.

Maybe this IS the test. Will we remain faithful to Christ and His gospel in spite of the arm of the flesh leadership of the administrative church going in a different direction??

Isaiah thought this to be the case.

The keys of the Kingdom is authority to govern the use of the priesthood of God on earth, and the keys to govern the kingdom of God on earth. These keys are with Q15.

By fighting them you are fighting God and will lose.

The keys remain with Q15 because they:
1) were ordained by proper authority, and
2) are good men doing their best to honor God, despite of their mistakes. There mistakes are honest ones. This is why the keys continue with them.

This kingdom and keys will not be destroyed from the earth as long as the earth shall stand.

This is the key you are missing (pun intended). And you misinterpret Isaiah trying to support your error. It will not work. Misery will teach you this until you align yourself with the authority and kingdom of God. It is unwise to "kick against the pricks". Saul found that out, so will you.

Just because men are ordained with keys does not automatically mean they are personally worthy to have power and authority in those keys. They may "remain" with them, but they are inert until they repent. (See Alma the Elder).

I have not seen the power and authority in these men that I see from prophets in our scriptures.

Why are these fruits absent from our church leaders today?

[Christianlee]

It was no longer the members’ church when funding became centralized. Members used to pay to build their own buildings, have their own welfare projects, pay for their own temples and run their own local budgets. When members allowed SLC to redefine tithing as 10% of income instead of interest, the Church was taken away from the members. If members were still giving interest to SLC, there would still be plenty for them to pay for their local needs. There would be no $100 billion slush fund. All is well in Zion. It’s always about following the money.

[The Red Pill]

You never answered my questions, by the way.

I answered all of the questions you raised multiple times (ad nauseam) in previous posts.
Please search through my posts, and you will find them.

Cheers.

Like I have the time or inclination to search through all your previous posts...

You are obviously avoiding answering...because you don't and cannot come up with a good answer...or a believable answer.

There is no more clearer example of showcasing the utterly false doctrine of "cannot lead you astray" than the deadly-juice urging. THEY CAN AND DID LEAD EVERYONE ASTRAY...PERIOD!!!

[Good & Global]

I am failing see some of the Logic here.

Prayer - an appeal to a higher spiritual insider knowledge

I prayed and got an answer that confirms what I am doing is right. You prayed and got a different answer means you need to pray again to get the right answer. (Coincidentally being the answer that tells me I am right)
I am not sure this is how a Father in Heaven wants his children to operate.

Logic - an appeal to the mind God has given us

if we live by spiritual knowledge being the only answer we cannot use deductive reasoning in our conclusions of what is right. So if God said this was the last dispensation then the church will never fall away. Is it possible like in all other dispensations there was an effort or push made to get the word out - to build a zion people - but when the people's hearts are firmly fixed on the things of this world it all falls away back into apostasy. So it is more of a refreshing or renewing of this knowledge so people can still use agency to choose? Just a theory but there could be many reasons for WHY something is happening instead of it will NEVER happen. But yes I agree we need to think these things out with a mixture of what God tells and actively thinking about things with an open mind so God can further inform us as our Father in Heaven of what to do or prepare for in our courses here on earth

Apostasy - being above gospel reproach

Also, no man is above keeping the commandments. The Book of Mormon teaches us if God were to lie, he would cease to God. Does this apply to the men of God too? If wo is unto the liar because they are thrust down to hell, should we assume that the formalities of title or priesthood ordinations save anyone from that same fate unless they truly repent and return to the ways of the Lord?

Otherwise, what difference is our church from the Catholic church? They were ordained and carried that ordination forward in wickedness. By that same logic, they have more claim to directly traced authority than we do. There literally would be no need for a restoration if wicked priesthood holders were above gospel reproach. Well the Q15 aren't wicked I know one might say. I see them on tv and they smile and they can't be. You do? You are one of the Q15, you know their secret works and thoughts? You are with them 24/7 in all the meetings that are secret to you because you aren't in them. This is pride covering for ignorance.

Ignorance - a building block to those who exercise faith

We all are ignorant. This is why beyond what they say we can look to what they do. Now the church has been doing so many secret things they can no longer be held back from public view and blooming into the fruits by which we shall know them. We as a church do not really help people out in the world other than what our good members' own personal efforts. The only thing that we can do is give money to one world religions and non government organizations to help people.

Consequences come regardless if we seem them now

We also invest billions of diverted tithing funds, widow mite units in babylon, in companies that are forcing people to do things like Amazon which censors conservative or covid information books (removes them from online sales) as well as sponsors various other agendas. Yet with church's $1.5B investment in Amazon stock, the church keeps getting closer to them by enabling Amazon's tax evading infrastructure in using tithing money to invest in warehouse buildings, etc to so Amazon can rent it back and deduct it from their taxes. Amazon as a company paid $0 taxes several years. So when members can't get social security etc in a few years they can thank their church again for enabling it. I am not saying the government is great by any means. I am just saying we shouldn't be trying to make so many excuses for the church that we miss all the consequences that will attend us further down in the line. Just because it doesn't happen to us right now does not mean all is well in Zion.

[Obeone]

Just because men are ordained with keys does not automatically mean they are personally worthy to have power and authority in those keys. They may "remain" with them, but they are inert until they repent. (See Alma the Elder).

I have not seen the power and authority in these men that I see from prophets in our scriptures.

Why are these fruits absent from our church leaders today?

They are not completely absent. I feel the Spirit of the Lord in most of their talks. I feel it in the temple.

But you are right. The Church and Zion are in the wilderness right now, until New Jerusalem is founded.

We have doctrinal problems with teachings in the Church including falsehoods we are taught about the fall, and about blindly following prophets.

Also there is a lot of boot licking of gadiantons is going on.

For these reasons you do not see a lot of power yet. But it will change soon.

As I said, Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead. Within 7 years, those who survive will hear "Thus saith the Lord" again. And you will see the power and fruits of the prophets described in the scriptures.

For now is the test: will you throw away the baby (the keys of the kingdom found in the Church), together with bath water ("safe and effective" test).

If you turn against the Church and do not respect the authority of God and keys currently in the Church, you are failing the test, and will be chastened by God for it. He will not be mocked.

This is a very good time to stay in the ship Zion, and very dangerous time to stray. And of course you must follow the Spirit of God above all, and reject the poisonous jabs, as the Spirit directs.

Time to grow up or die: spiritually, or even perhaps physically.

Stay safe, by following the Spirit, staying close to the Lord and to His Church, otherwise you have no promise.

[madvin]

Like the saying goes, even the elect will be deceived. But they won't be damned. There's no shame in being deceived.

Not sure I would agree with this part. If we turn back to the war in heaven...Satan and his henchmen deceived 1/3 of the entire lot...and there were very severe and eternally damning consequences for being deceived.

It really didn't matter if you were satan's right hand man...or just one of the billions duped into promises that couldn't be delivered...the punishment was the same. If you found yourself on the wrong side of the truth, it didn't matter how you got there.

Not wanting to derail the thread, but I think it is a little more nuanced. Firstly, it was a third part, not a third ie. 33.3333%, which followed Lucifer. There were three groups, not necessarilyof equal or approximate size. A third part could have been a relatively small overall percentage. And there certainly is a hierarchy amongst the demons. Those who were simply deceived are perhaps not as wicked and committed to the cause as those who did the deceiving.
I know of some accounts of demons found hiding because they're tired and fed up, are continually whipped and pressed by their higher-ups, and are desperate for some respite.

Any further information on this?

[Christianlee]

Just because men are ordained with keys does not automatically mean they are personally worthy to have power and authority in those keys. They may "remain" with them, but they are inert until they repent. (See Alma the Elder).

I have not seen the power and authority in these men that I see from prophets in our scriptures.

Why are these fruits absent from our church leaders today?

They are not completely absent. I feel the Spirit of the Lord in most of their talks. I feel it in the temple.

But you are right. The Church and Zion are in the wilderness right now, until New Jerusalem is founded.

We have doctrinal problems with teachings in the Church including falsehoods we are taught about the fall, and about blindly following prophets.

Also there is a lot of boot licking of gadiantons is going on.

For these reasons you do not see a lot of power yet. But it will change soon.

As I said, Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead. Within 7 years, those who survive will hear "Thus saith the Lord" again. And you will see the power and fruits of the prophets described in the scriptures.

For now is the test: will you throw away the baby (the keys of the kingdom found in the Church), together with bath water ("safe and effective" test).

If you turn against the Church and do not respect the authority of God and keys currently in the Church, you are failing the test, and will be chastened by God for it. He will not be mocked.

This is a very good time to stay in the ship Zion, and very dangerous time to stray. And of course you must follow the Spirit of God above all, and reject the poisonous jabs, as the Spirit directs.

Time to grow up or die: spiritually, or even perhaps physically.

Stay safe, by following the Spirit, staying close to the Lord and to His Church, otherwise you have no promise.

Sounds like the same plea a corporatist Catholic could make. Boats are leaking everywhere.

[Obeone]

There is no more clearer example of showcasing the utterly false doctrine of "cannot lead you astray" than the deadly-juice urging. THEY CAN AND DID LEAD EVERYONE ASTRAY...PERIOD!!!

There are things much worse than death. Apostasy is one of them.

I believe the prophet might have been commanded to "urge" us to take the poison as a test, so the Church will forever learn that the Spirit outranks the prophet EVERY time.

On top of that test, Q15 are plain wrong about the "god-sent" goodness of the jab, etc. So it is a God given test, combined with a mistake by the prophets, -- all to teach the Church the important lesson, before Zion can be redeemed.

As for "leading astray." They (Q15) do not, and cannot lead the church astray as far as eternal principles are concerned regarding our eternal salvation. In these things God will not allow them to stray too far, or he will remove them out of their place and replace them.

The sure promise is that this dispensation and kingdom will not be destroyed by an apostasy.

Not this time.

This is the last dispensation, and His Kingdom coming forth for the LAST time. He will rather kill those who do not comply with his laws than to allow them to destroy His kingdom on earth this time around.

This is the key. And you do not understand it. But you will. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

For now you are left to choose for yourself.

Choose wisely.

[Good & Global]

That makes no sense.

God is not going to send a command through his mouthpiece to join the great and abominable religion to see what is in it first. I don't care if they offer a gold medal for mental gymnastics I refuse to participate on the grounds that it cheapens one's integrity.

Prophets telling us to do something that will be harmful to our physical or spiritual health is the very apostasy being talked about.

The church seems to be being destroyed from within in a pattern similiar of world domination.

viewtopic.php?t=71113

[InfoWarrior82]

Just because men are ordained with keys does not automatically mean they are personally worthy to have power and authority in those keys. They may "remain" with them, but they are inert until they repent. (See Alma the Elder).

I have not seen the power and authority in these men that I see from prophets in our scriptures.

Why are these fruits absent from our church leaders today?

They are not completely absent. I feel the Spirit of the Lord in most of their talks. I feel it in the temple.

But you are right. The Church and Zion are in the wilderness right now, until New Jerusalem is founded.

We have doctrinal problems with teachings in the Church including falsehoods we are taught about the fall, and about blindly following prophets.

Also there is a lot of boot licking of gadiantons is going on.

For these reasons you do not see a lot of power yet. But it will change soon.

As I said, Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead. Within 7 years, those who survive will hear "Thus saith the Lord" again. And you will see the power and fruits of the prophets described in the scriptures.

For now is the test: will you throw away the baby (the keys of the kingdom found in the Church), together with bath water ("safe and effective" test).

If you turn against the Church and do not respect the authority of God and keys currently in the Church, you are failing the test, and will be chastened by God for it. He will not be mocked.

This is a very good time to stay in the ship Zion, and very dangerous time to stray. And of course you must follow the Spirit of God above all, and reject the poisonous jabs, as the Spirit directs.

Time to grow up or die: spiritually, or even perhaps physically.

Stay safe, by following the Spirit, staying close to the Lord and to His Church, otherwise you have no promise.

I feel the spirit when hearing a pastor in another church, so your attempt to make that connection to it being the reason they have power in their priesthood fails. They are COMPLETELY without scriptural fruits of prophets.

When the Church comes out of the wilderness to inhabit the land of their inheritance, it will be led by a newly called prophet. These imposters will be "released ".

1. Jesus Christ is Lord.
2. The Bible and the Book of Mormon are the word of God.
3. The church was restored through the prophet Joseph Smith.
4. We lapsed into apostasy. God and His prophets foretold this would happen.
5. A mighty and strong prophet will fully establish Zion and gather together the lost tribes and build the literal city of New Jerusalem where Christ will reign as King of kings for 1,000 years.

[Obeone]

When the Church comes out of the wilderness to inhabit the land of their inheritance, it will be led by a newly called prophet. These imposters will be "released ".

1. Jesus Christ is Lord.
2. The Bible and the Book of Mormon are the word of God.
3. The church was restored through the prophet Joseph Smith.
4. We lapsed into apostasy. God and His prophets foretold this would happen.
5. A mighty and strong prophet will fully establish Zion and gather together the lost tribes and build the literal city of New Jerusalem where Christ will reign as King of kings for 1,000 years.

True, except they are not "impostors" but duly ordained servants of God holding keys.
Also (4) is false.

[InfoWarrior82]

When the Church comes out of the wilderness to inhabit the land of their inheritance, it will be led by a newly called prophet. These imposters will be "released ".

1. Jesus Christ is Lord.
2. The Bible and the Book of Mormon are the word of God.
3. The church was restored through the prophet Joseph Smith.
4. We lapsed into apostasy. God and His prophets foretold this would happen.
5. A mighty and strong prophet will fully establish Zion and gather together the lost tribes and build the literal city of New Jerusalem where Christ will reign as King of kings for 1,000 years.

True, except they are not "impostors" but duly ordained servants of God holding keys.
Also (4) is false.

Joining with secret combinations is the epitome of apostasy.

They call themselves prophets of God, but their fruits are corrupt. What did Jesus say about corrupt fruits?

[Good & Global]

Why does it seem like the only people who can stop the church from being swept into destruction are intent on making excuses for bad behavior?

First they came for the janitors to divert billions away in tithing money but I was not a janitor.
I knew this was just a test and I had faith they would not lead me astray.

They came for the "anti-vaxxers" but I was not an anti-vaxxer.
I doubled down on faith and triple boosted to not be led astray.

They came with efforts to join a world wide religious movement and spend the billions to align with the pope.
I quadrupled down. Nope not going to being led astray.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Divide and Conquer - here is your sign.

[Christianlee]

What does it mean for the church to be “ours”?

[Good & Global]

What does it mean for the church to be “ours”?

Great question. Meaning that the church belongs to Christ and by extension all of us.
Instead of being taken over and effectually owned by a person or group of people for private/selfish interests.

[Christianlee]

What does it mean for the church to be “ours”?

Great question. Meaning that the church belongs to Christ and by extension all of us.
Instead of being taken over and effectually owned by a person or group of people for private/selfish interests.

There are no avenues available for members to change the LDS Church. You can either accept that or leave. Only Jesus can intervene directly with the leaders. So pray for that if you want to stay.