We consider the matter closed...

[silverado]

so the good members of the church are not talking about the sec cease and desist order. Some members must have done mental gymnastics. Now we forget about it and move on....

Has anyone read the 90 page Memorandum of David A. Nielson to the US Senate Finance Committee and Subcommittee on Taxation and IRS Enforcement? It looks like a good explanation and argument for why EPA should owe $ billions of back taxes. It includes several photo copies of 'incorrect' tax forms signed by Roger Clarke.

[Good & Global]

Roger Clarke was only doing God's work.

Where have I heard that before?

Oh that's right last crisis and from Goldman Sachs who has an HQ in Salt Lake City now.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gold ... 9520091108

[Good & Global]

So do all roads lead back to We Consider the Matter Closed? ie Salt Lake City?

[Mindfields]

Well they set an example for us. They tell us to follow them. No need to repent anymore. I consider the matter closed.

[The Red Pill]

FYI...those on the inside of the SEC, were furious with the church's official statement...because of its whitewashed version of events, lack of any accountability...and trying to blame it all on some lawyer not filing the correct paperwork.

Their pathetic statement was window dressing for the members to hide the tomfoolery...and just in case their was any curiosity in the membership...

....they added: "We considered the matter closed"

Kinda like Biden in regards to Hunters laptop...

[FrankOne]

....they added: "We considered the matter closed"

Kinda like Biden in regards to Hunters laptop...

Hilarious because the comparison is very accurate.

[silverado]

FYI...those on the inside of the SEC, were furious with the church's official statement...because of its whitewashed version of events, lack of any accountability...and trying to blame it all on some lawyer not filing the correct paperwork.

Their pathetic statement was window dressing for the members to hide the tomfoolery...and just in case their was any curiosity in the membership...

....they added: "We considered the matter closed"

Kinda like Biden in regards to Hunters laptop...

Section 121 says something about when we undertake to cover our sins.

[Good & Global]

FYI...those on the inside of the SEC, were furious with the church's official statement...because of its whitewashed version of events, lack of any accountability...and trying to blame it all on some lawyer not filing the correct paperwork.

Their pathetic statement was window dressing for the members to hide the tomfoolery...and just in case their was any curiosity in the membership...

....they added: "We considered the matter closed"

Kinda like Biden in regards to Hunters laptop...

It wasn't some stupid lawyer. You have to remember most Q15 is lawyers and businessmen including Ballard who was caught by the SEC before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Russell_Ballard. (under business activities in 1961)

The managers at Ensign Peak told the church leaders that they needed to file it correctly but they insisted on hiding the $100B. The managers knew it was a problem and breaking SEC rules so the First Presidency and the Presiding Bishopric (Christofferson was in there) had to sign off on it for 24 years. You know how many first presidencies and prophets that is? They started doing this in 1997 until they got caught in 2021 and started disclosing it correctly ONLY AFTER the whistleblower. Yet they are all mad in their official statements and 60 minutes about the whistleblower. Imagine the day when servants of the Lord get mad at someone telling the truth about their little shell game. Why are they even messing with Lord's money in that way anyways?

But it wasn't about hiding it from the government, the govt already knew how much money they had. It was about not putting all the funds together so the members knew how much tithing money was being diverted from ward budgets etc to fund this hedge fund. This is why they used shell companies each which reported separately to the government but not as one organization which is what they truthfully were. One hedge fund with a lot of fake companies set up to hide their money.

Plain and simple it was to deceive the members.

[ransomme]

so the good members of the church are not talking about the sec cease and desist order. Some members must have done mental gymnastics. Now we forget about it and move on....

Has anyone read the 90 page Memorandum of David A. Nielson to the US Senate Finance Committee and Subcommittee on Taxation and IRS Enforcement? It looks like a good explanation and argument for why EPA should owe $ billions of back taxes. It includes several photo copies of 'incorrect' tax forms signed by Roger Clarke.

I don't see David A. Nielson as an actor in good faith. I think he has ulterior motives. He is either lying through his teeth about his motives or is a utterly naive imbecile.

Who here thinks that the Gadiantons should be paid a percentage of one's increase?

[ransomme]

Who cares about the sec and what not? Granted lying is not a good look. They need better lawyers and need to up their game.

The only thing that matters to me is how they handle tithing.

[Ymarsakar]

I consider the matter to ve ongoing. Hi banks. Nothing is too big under the heavens. Even the tower of babel fell

I consider most hedge fundnactivities to be secret alliances. They are being exposed to god s light. Watch solar flares.

Trust in the creators of this universe. They have more power than your parents leaders and governments.

[Mindfields]

Who cares about the sec and what not? Granted lying is not a good look. They need better lawyers and need to up their game.

The only thing that matters to me is how they handle tithing.

The fact remains they were trying to hide it from the members at all costs. This behavior is dirty and underhanded and is rooted in the possibility of them losing control of their loot if the members and everyone else for that matter were aware of their shenanigans.

Choose God or mammon. Apparently the brethren have made their choice.

[LDS Physician]

Temple recommend question number 9:

“Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?”

[ransomme]

Who cares about the sec and what not? Granted lying is not a good look. They need better lawyers and need to up their game.

The only thing that matters to me is how they handle tithing.

The fact remains they were trying to hide it from the members at all costs. This behavior is dirty and underhanded and is rooted in the possibility of them losing control of their loot if the members and everyone else for that matter were aware of their shenanigans.

Choose God or mammon. Apparently the brethren have made their choice.

Agreed. Totally untrustworthy with the purse strings. Betrayed the trust of all the members.

The stuff with the government is all just a game and they lost this round.

[ransomme]

Temple recommend question number 9:

“Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?”

The brethren don't have temple recommend interviews.

And taxes are about what's legal. After all the whole system is a dishonest one.

[silverado]

so the good members of the church are not talking about the sec cease and desist order. Some members must have done mental gymnastics. Now we forget about it and move on....

Has anyone read the 90 page Memorandum of David A. Nielson to the US Senate Finance Committee and Subcommittee on Taxation and IRS Enforcement? It looks like a good explanation and argument for why EPA should owe $ billions of back taxes. It includes several photo copies of 'incorrect' tax forms signed by Roger Clarke.

I don't see David A. Nielson as an actor in good faith. I think he has ulterior motives. He is either lying through his teeth about his motives or is a utterly naive imbecile.

Who here thinks that the Gadiantons should be paid a percentage of one's increase?

Whether taxes should be paid or not, it is the law. And A of F 12, we believe in 'obeying, honoring and sustaining the law.' Is it ok to preach one thing and do another?

To me, this is less about taxes and more about honesty.

[LDS Physician]

Temple recommend question number 9:

“Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?”

The brethren don't have temple recommend interviews.

And taxes are about what's legal. After all the whole system is a dishonest one.

It's so interesting to watch people excuse the brethren from the very rules they insist those whom they lead obey. The level of mental gymnastics necessary to maintain the infallibility myth is incredible.

I mean ... do you actually believe in your heart of hearts that it's ok for them to be dishonest in their dealings while telling us that we must be honest in our dealings? Where do you draw the line? They don't have a temple recommend interview ... so can they commit adultery?

Your logic is beyond me, thank goodness.

[Atrasado]

FYI...those on the inside of the SEC, were furious with the church's official statement...because of its whitewashed version of events, lack of any accountability...and trying to blame it all on some lawyer not filing the correct paperwork.

Their pathetic statement was window dressing for the members to hide the tomfoolery...and just in case their was any curiosity in the membership...

....they added: "We considered the matter closed"

Kinda like Biden in regards to Hunters laptop...

I believe you, but where did you get that info? Because I'll bet they have a lot more info about what is really happening.

I keep having this fantasy about the entire Council on the Disposition of the Tithes getting perp walked out of 47 E S Temple St and 50 E North Temple St. Of course, that would make them martyrs in some people's eyes. But it would open a lot of eyes, too.

[Atrasado]

Temple recommend question number 9:

“Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?”

The brethren don't have temple recommend interviews.

And taxes are about what's legal. After all the whole system is a dishonest one.

It's so interesting to watch people excuse the brethren from the very rules they insist those whom they lead obey. The level of mental gymnastics necessary to maintain the infallibility myth is incredible.

I mean ... do you actually believe in your heart of hearts that it's ok for them to be dishonest in their dealings while telling us that we must be honest in our dealings? Where do you draw the line? They don't have a temple recommend interview ... so can they commit adultery?

Your logic is beyond me, thank goodness.

Having read Ransomme a fair amount, I think he's saying that the General Authorities don't worry about being honest. They've set up the system inside the Church so they are accountable to no one, and they use the corrupt system outside the Church as skillfully and dishonestly as they possibly can.

[silverado]

FYI...those on the inside of the SEC, were furious with the church's official statement...because of its whitewashed version of events, lack of any accountability...and trying to blame it all on some lawyer not filing the correct paperwork.

Their pathetic statement was window dressing for the members to hide the tomfoolery...and just in case their was any curiosity in the membership...

....they added: "We considered the matter closed"

Kinda like Biden in regards to Hunters laptop...

I believe you, but where did you get that info? Because I'll bet they have a lot more info about what is really happening.

I keep having this fantasy about the entire Council on the Disposition of the Tithes getting perp walked out of 47 E S Temple St and 50 E North Temple St. Of course, that would make them martyrs in some people's eyes. But it would open a lot of eyes, too.

With all the care and details that were in the sec letter, there was no mention of lawyers advice. I heard that meant the church didn't use that defense with the sec. And why not?

[LDS Physician]

The brethren don't have temple recommend interviews.

And taxes are about what's legal. After all the whole system is a dishonest one.

It's so interesting to watch people excuse the brethren from the very rules they insist those whom they lead obey. The level of mental gymnastics necessary to maintain the infallibility myth is incredible.

I mean ... do you actually believe in your heart of hearts that it's ok for them to be dishonest in their dealings while telling us that we must be honest in our dealings? Where do you draw the line? They don't have a temple recommend interview ... so can they commit adultery?

Your logic is beyond me, thank goodness.

Having read Ransomme a fair amount, I think he's saying that the General Authorities don't worry about being honest. They've set up the system inside the Church so they are accountable to no one, and they use the corrupt system outside the Church as skillfully and dishonestly as they possibly can.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh ... then my apologies!

[TheDuke]

WELL do we believe Joseph F Smith? He said the day would come that tithes would no longer be required as the church would have sufficient for their needs. Has that prophesied day come?

The LDS Church entered a debt crisis following the panic of 1893. Lorenzo Snow became the church's president in 1898 and worked to solve the church's money problems. ... The LDS Church paid off all its debts by the end of 1906. In 1907, Joseph F. Smith taught that the church would one day no longer have the need to ask for tithing donations as it built its wealth.

[InfoWarrior82]

WELL do we believe Joseph F Smith? He said the day would come that tithes would no longer be required as the church would have sufficient for their needs. Has that prophesied day come?

The LDS Church entered a debt crisis following the panic of 1893. Lorenzo Snow became the church's president in 1898 and worked to solve the church's money problems. ... The LDS Church paid off all its debts by the end of 1906. In 1907, Joseph F. Smith taught that the church would one day no longer have the need to ask for tithing donations as it built its wealth.

So what you're saying is that our church leaders ever since we've no longer been dependent on tithing donations... is that... they have been sinning against the Lord?

[TheDuke]

WELL do we believe Joseph F Smith? He said the day would come that tithes would no longer be required as the church would have sufficient for their needs. Has that prophesied day come?

The LDS Church entered a debt crisis following the panic of 1893. Lorenzo Snow became the church's president in 1898 and worked to solve the church's money problems. ... The LDS Church paid off all its debts by the end of 1906. In 1907, Joseph F. Smith taught that the church would one day no longer have the need to ask for tithing donations as it built its wealth.

So what you're saying is that our church leaders ever since we've no longer been dependent on tithing donations... is that... they have been sinning against the Lord?

I'm not saying anything, I was asking a question!

However, I personally don't pay tithing (since 2019) because the church needs the money (or the Lord) but because the Lord told me that I promised him I would and if I want "the reward" he promised, I would continue....... However, he also showed me long ago, that a full tithe is only on the increase or interest, not what I made (gross). Lately, he has allowed me to be generous in my cost basis as I retired to recompute what he wants.

[InfoWarrior82]

WELL do we believe Joseph F Smith? He said the day would come that tithes would no longer be required as the church would have sufficient for their needs. Has that prophesied day come?

The LDS Church entered a debt crisis following the panic of 1893. Lorenzo Snow became the church's president in 1898 and worked to solve the church's money problems. ... The LDS Church paid off all its debts by the end of 1906. In 1907, Joseph F. Smith taught that the church would one day no longer have the need to ask for tithing donations as it built its wealth.

So what you're saying is that our church leaders ever since we've no longer been dependent on tithing donations... is that... they have been sinning against the Lord?

I'm not saying anything, I was asking a question!

However, I personally don't pay tithing (since 2019) because the church needs the money (or the Lord) but because the Lord told me that I promised him I would and if I want "the reward" he promised, I would continue....... However, he also showed me long ago, that a full tithe is only on the increase or interest, not what I made (gross). Lately, he has allowed me to be generous in my cost basis as I retired to recompute what he wants.

I guess it depends if you think Joseph F. Smith was speaking as a prophet and also if you think the Lord meant what He said. If the answer is yes... Then our leaders are pissing off God. But I think regardless, they are so far gone in more ways than just tithing.