Specific Temple Changes -- Can they be justified?

[Serragon]

I have previously posted about my experiences with the new temple changes, but in this thread I would like to talk about specific changes and then see if we can discover any foundation or justification from the Scriptures or revelation for the change. There is much knowledge amongst the users of this forum. Perhaps there is something I missed that someone else can help me to understand.

There are many changes, but I want to just start with a few very specific things.

Specific Change 1: It is now stated multiple times that Adam and Eve were created as helpmeets for each other. This seems to me to be a rewriting of the books of Genesis and Moses. What is the justification for this?

Specific Change 2: Adam no longer names Eve. A new statement has been added indicating that Elohim named her Eve and that Adam is just stating the name God already named her. What is the justification for this?

That should be enough to get started. Looking forward to your answers and any specific changes you might have questions about.

[JohnnyL]

I have previously posted about my experiences with the new temple changes, but in this thread I would like to talk about specific changes and then see if we can discover any foundation or justification from the Scriptures or revelation for the change. There is much knowledge amongst the users of this forum. Perhaps there is something I missed that someone else can help me to understand.

There are many changes, but I want to just start with a few very specific things.

Specific Change 1: It is now stated multiple times that Adam and Eve were created as helpmeets for each other. This seems to me to be a rewriting of the books of Genesis and Moses. What is the justification for this?

Specific Change 2: Adam no longer names Eve. A new statement has been added indicating that Elohim named her Eve and that Adam is just stating the name God already named her. What is the justification for this?

That should be enough to get started. Looking forward to your answers and any specific changes you might have questions about.

Do you think Adam named Eve by the Spirit? I don't think it says God already named her Eve, but something a little different.

[ransomme]

#1 is accurate, she was created from Adam's tsela (side, not rib). Eve is an equal of and to Adam, and they should cleave to one another and become one again.

[Serragon]

#1 is accurate, she was created from Adam's tsela (side, not rib). Eve is an equal of and to Adam, and they should cleave to one another and become one again.

Agreed that they should cleave to one another and become one again. Not sure what is meant by the term "equal of and to Adam", as equality only exists in relationship to specific things. They perfectly complement each other, but are likely unequal in almost every measurable characteristic.

But my issue is not with whether people agree with the changes or not, but whether they can be justified. Being helpmeets for one another appears to be in contradiction with both Genesis and Moses. This portion of the temple endowment was in harmony with scripture since its inception, but has now been altered in 2023 to contradict scripture. Or am I missing something?

[Serragon]

I have previously posted about my experiences with the new temple changes, but in this thread I would like to talk about specific changes and then see if we can discover any foundation or justification from the Scriptures or revelation for the change. There is much knowledge amongst the users of this forum. Perhaps there is something I missed that someone else can help me to understand.

There are many changes, but I want to just start with a few very specific things.

Specific Change 1: It is now stated multiple times that Adam and Eve were created as helpmeets for each other. This seems to me to be a rewriting of the books of Genesis and Moses. What is the justification for this?

Specific Change 2: Adam no longer names Eve. A new statement has been added indicating that Elohim named her Eve and that Adam is just stating the name God already named her. What is the justification for this?

That should be enough to get started. Looking forward to your answers and any specific changes you might have questions about.

Do you think Adam named Eve by the Spirit? I don't think it says God already named her Eve, but something a little different.

God now says the following after Adam tells Elohim what he will call her: " For thus have I the Lord God called the first of all women"

[Chip]

Genesis 3:20

"The man named his wife Eve, because she was the mother of all living."

Strange they would attribute the naming of Eve to other than Adam. Seems provocational to just change things up out of the blue.

I've talked to two members today who brought up, without solicitation, that things in the church are deeply heading south.

[Cruiserdude]

Genesis 3:20

"The man named his wife Eve, because she was the mother of all living."

Strange they would attribute the naming of Eve to Elohim. Seems provocational to just change things up out of the blue.

I've talked to two members today who brought up, without solicitation, that things in the church are deeply heading south.

Can't have a 'man' giving a 'woman' a name now, can we?! *Gasp* Such unrighteous dominion!

Progressivism and feminism.... Brought to our church by the wives of the red chairs and the women of the Wasatch front(not you LDSFF ladies, y'all are the good ones )

[Chip]

Genesis 3:20

"The man named his wife Eve, because she was the mother of all living."

Strange they would attribute the naming of Eve to Elohim. Seems provocational to just change things up out of the blue.

I've talked to two members today who brought up, without solicitation, that things in the church are deeply heading south.

Can't have a 'man' giving a 'woman' a name now, can we?! *Gasp* Such unrighteous dominion!

Progressivism and feminism.... Brought to your church by the wives of the red chairs and the women of the Wasatch front(not you LDSFF ladies, y'all are the good ones )

Making the temple a woke experience. So stupid.

And Eve was designated to be Adam's helpmeet. How can they get all that switched up, too? As if nobody knows what the bible clearly spells out.

Anything these douchebags are in charge of, you don't need in your life.

Here is some great encouragement by Julie Green from this morning. You can start listening at 13:00.

[Chip]

Genesis 3:20

"The man named his wife Eve, because she was the mother of all living."

Strange they would attribute the naming of Eve to Elohim. Seems provocational to just change things up out of the blue.

I've talked to two members today who brought up, without solicitation, that things in the church are deeply heading south.

Can't have a 'man' giving a 'woman' a name now, can we?! *Gasp* Such unrighteous dominion!

Progressivism and feminism.... Brought to your church by the wives of the red chairs and the women of the Wasatch front(not you LDSFF ladies, y'all are the good ones )

Making the temple a woke experience. So stupid.

And Eve was designated to be Adam's helpmeet. How can they get all that switched up, too? As if nobody knows what the bible clearly spells out.

Anything these douchebags are in charge of, you don't need in your life.

Here is some great encouragement by Julie Green from this morning. You can start listening at 13:00.

https://rumble.com/v2q4wn8-what-to-do-w ... art-2.html

[JohnnyL]

I have previously posted about my experiences with the new temple changes, but in this thread I would like to talk about specific changes and then see if we can discover any foundation or justification from the Scriptures or revelation for the change. There is much knowledge amongst the users of this forum. Perhaps there is something I missed that someone else can help me to understand.

There are many changes, but I want to just start with a few very specific things.

Specific Change 1: It is now stated multiple times that Adam and Eve were created as helpmeets for each other. This seems to me to be a rewriting of the books of Genesis and Moses. What is the justification for this?

Specific Change 2: Adam no longer names Eve. A new statement has been added indicating that Elohim named her Eve and that Adam is just stating the name God already named her. What is the justification for this?

That should be enough to get started. Looking forward to your answers and any specific changes you might have questions about.

Do you think Adam named Eve by the Spirit? I don't think it says God already named her Eve, but something a little different.

God now says the following after Adam tells Elohim what he will call her: " For thus have I the Lord God called the first of all women"

Moses 4:26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.

[Serragon]

Do you think Adam named Eve by the Spirit? I don't think it says God already named her Eve, but something a little different.

God now says the following after Adam tells Elohim what he will call her: " For thus have I the Lord God called the first of all women"

Moses 4:26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.

Thanks JohnnyL!

[TheDuke]

As i said before i don’t think any of the words or teachings matter much just the sealing ordinances themselves

[blitzinstripes]

It's definitely not divine revelation. It's clearly nothing but pandering to woke culture and progressivism. The church has made their bed in unholy places, and they shall lie in that bed with their Babylonian whores.

[Peeps]

I have previously posted about my experiences with the new temple changes, but in this thread I would like to talk about specific changes and then see if we can discover any foundation or justification from the Scriptures or revelation for the change. There is much knowledge amongst the users of this forum. Perhaps there is something I missed that someone else can help me to understand.

There are many changes, but I want to just start with a few very specific things.

Specific Change 1: It is now stated multiple times that Adam and Eve were created as helpmeets for each other. This seems to me to be a rewriting of the books of Genesis and Moses. What is the justification for this?

Specific Change 2: Adam no longer names Eve. A new statement has been added indicating that Elohim named her Eve and that Adam is just stating the name God already named her. What is the justification for this?

That should be enough to get started. Looking forward to your answers and any specific changes you might have questions about.

Perhaps the "Elohim" or "God" of Genesis chapter 1 & Abraham chapter 4 are different entity(ies) than the "Jehovah Elohim," or the "LORD God" of Genesis chapter 2:4, Who formed Adam from the dust, and breathed the breath of life into him, making him a living soul. Genesis chapter 1 male and females were made as "images" and likeness of ...which thing is forbidden in Exodus 20:4 & Deuteronomy 5:8, so in a way, the Church is making the endowment more align with Genesis ch1 & Abraham ch4 rather than Genesis ch2.

I believe the "Elohim" are the third that followed Lucifer as recorded in the Book of Abraham chapter 3 & 4, and Genesis chapter 1. We were taken captive in the war in heaven for not firmly choosing a side and being willing to forfeit our first estate, so we were taken into the lowest parts of the earth. Jesus Christ came in Genesis chapter 2:4 as the LORD God, and formed Adam with the breath of life in his nostrils, making him a living soul. Genesis chapter 1 male and females were made as "images," which are idols....

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

The Strong's definition of "likeness" is:
"tem-oo-naw'; or תְּמֻנָה tᵉmunâh; from H4327; something portioned (i.e. fashioned) out, as a shape, i.e. (indefinitely) phantom, or (specifically) embodiment, or (figuratively) manifestation (of favor):—image, likeness, similitude."
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/exo ... conc_70004

The elohim were doing the embodiment thing.

Like I said, the "elohim" of Genesis 1, Abraham 4, are not the same as Jehovah Elohim, the LORD God, that formed the capital "A" Adam, with a living soul, and took one his ribs, and formed Eve in Genesis chapter 2:4.

So that implies a literal serpent seed that was around before Adam & Eve, probably living in the land of Nod where Cain found his wife. The 13 illuminati bloodlines supposedly trace back to Cain, specifically Tubal Cain, which is the password for the 3rd Degree of Masonry.
https://www.freemason.com/tubal-cain/

IMO, Adam & Eve were formed in Genesis 2 to "supplant" the Genesis 1 race, just like Jacob was meant to supplant Esau. That is what the name Jacob meant, "supplanter," which was later changed to "Israel," which means "God perseveres/prevails."

It is also worth noting that the word "create" in Genesis 1 means to "cut down" like cutting down a tree to make a wooden idol. Which reminds me of this from Abraham 3:
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God,[Lucifer wanted to be like the Most High as recorded in Isaiah 14]and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;(perhaps this is how the earth became without form and void in Genesis 1:2)

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
Notice how it was said the Lord "their" God, and not the Lord "our" God...

viewtopic.php?p=1277394#p1277394

[Chip]

Do you think Adam named Eve by the Spirit? I don't think it says God already named her Eve, but something a little different.

God now says the following after Adam tells Elohim what he will call her: " For thus have I the Lord God called the first of all women"

Moses 4:26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.

So, it sounds like God honored the name that Adam had given Eve.

This is subtly worded. It could be construed that God named Eve and Adam followed suit and called her the same.

I think the scriptures indicate that Adam named Eve, not God, but God thereafter used the name Adam had given her. Agree?

[Wolfwoman]

I remember learning once, maybe it was the Hebrew words, that it was help meet. Not “helpmeet”. Meaning Eve was a “help” or companion “meet” or suitable/comparable to Adam.

So it does bug me a little bit listening to the new version just because I think the grammar/usage is wrong.

[ransomme]

#1 is accurate, she was created from Adam's tsela (side, not rib). Eve is an equal of and to Adam, and they should cleave to one another and become one again.

Agreed that they should cleave to one another and become one again. Not sure what is meant by the term "equal of and to Adam", as equality only exists in relationship to specific things. They perfectly complement each other, but are likely unequal in almost every measurable characteristic.

But my issue is not with whether people agree with the changes or not, but whether they can be justified. Being helpmeets for one another appears to be in contradiction with both Genesis and Moses. This portion of the temple endowment was in harmony with scripture since its inception, but has now been altered in 2023 to contradict scripture. Or am I missing something?

Symmetry neither means nor is it a good measure of equality.

How is it contradicting scripture?
It's used 8 times in our scriptures. Is your objection that "help meet" doesn't mean equal?

[Niemand]

I don't have a problem with the term "helpmeet". Men and women are supposed to be complimentary to one another, despite the behaviour of some and the claims of others.

[ransomme]

I remember learning once, maybe it was the Hebrew words, that it was help meet. Not “helpmeet”. Meaning Eve was a “help” or companion “meet” or suitable/comparable to Adam.

So it does bug me a little bit listening to the new version just because I think the grammar/usage is wrong.

I think it might actually have been "help meat".

[Jashon]

I remember learning once, maybe it was the Hebrew words, that it was help meet. Not “helpmeet”. Meaning Eve was a “help” or companion “meet” or suitable/comparable to Adam.

So it does bug me a little bit listening to the new version just because I think the grammar/usage is wrong.

Yes, that's exactly right.

Here's what the Oxford English Dictionary (2nd ed.) has on the 'word' helpmeet, that it's an absurdly formed compound. In short, meet is an adjective, the start of an adjective phrase, "meet for him", but it was wrongly reanalyzed.

helpmeet

(ˈhɛlpmiːt)

[A compound absurdly formed by taking the two words help meet in Gen. ii. 18, 20 (‘an help meet for him’, i.e. a help (help n. 2) suitable for him) as one word.
   Already in the 17th c. the Scripture phrase is found with the two words improperly hyphened; which led the way to the use of help-meet, helpmeet, without ‘for him’. But its recognition as a ‘word’ is chiefly of the 19th c.: it is unknown to Johnson, Todd, Richardson, and to Webster 1832. In the 17th c. they used more grammatically meet help, meet-help: cf. sweet heart, sweetheart.]

A fitting or suitable helper; a helpmate: usually applied to a wife or husband.

[JohnnyL]

God now says the following after Adam tells Elohim what he will call her: " For thus have I the Lord God called the first of all women"

Moses 4:26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.

So, it sounds like God honored the name that Adam had given Eve.

This is subtly worded. It could be construed that God named Eve and Adam followed suit and called her the same.

I think the scriptures indicate that Adam named Eve, not God, but God thereafter used the name Adam had given her. Agree?

Let me add these things first:

Matthew 6:8 “Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.”

When one truly prays by the Spirit, are they praying for what God wants them to pray for, and asking for what God wants them to ask for?

Has anyone experienced receiving revelation about what to name their child? Was it your name you gave them, or did God give the name to them?

The Book of Mormon has a very different view of revelation than what we usually think--it speaks constantly that things happen to fulfill the words of the prophets, not that because things will happen in the future, prophets speak about them. How might this affect our understanding of this situation?

[JohnnyL]

Personally, for me, I would have made many changes different than what have happened. I was made acutely aware of that this past week. I do like some of the changes.

But the temple endowment does not center around me, it centers around all of God's children. What will most need?

When we receive revelation, does it all come at once, every time? Or are we led to the next step, and sometimes even led to "try this and see"?

[TheDuke]

I think Eve was a title not a name, likely Sumerian pre Babylonian used, like “Eden” is Babylonian term for wilderness

[Silver Pie]

I remember learning once, maybe it was the Hebrew words, that it was help meet. Not “helpmeet”. Meaning Eve was a “help” or companion “meet” or suitable/comparable to Adam.

So it does bug me a little bit listening to the new version just because I think the grammar/usage is wrong.

Yep. She was a help meet for Adam. In other words, a help fit for Adam or a companion suitable for him, like you said.

[Dusty Wanderer]

Specific Change 1: It is now stated multiple times that Adam and Eve were created as helpmeets for each other. This seems to me to be a rewriting of the books of Genesis and Moses. What is the justification for this?

Progressivism and pressures from the feminist agenda.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to wrest it on 1 Cor. 11:11 at some point, “Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.”

However, this would only be seen as an erroneous reading, forcing some kind of contradiction with Genesis and Moses, so they leave the rank and file to assume all sorts of deeper or “higher” meaning into the change.

Specific Change 2: Adam no longer names Eve. A new statement has been added indicating that Elohim named her Eve and that Adam is just stating the name God already named her. What is the justification for this?

Progressivism and pressures from the feminist agenda.

We can’t have a man naming a woman. That’s just not possible/acceptable to a modern intellectual, enlightened in the ways of equality of outcomes. Any divergence from the ancient text is probably due to continuing restoration — correcting the errors of bigoted men through modern-day revelation.