The simplicity of the gospel

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Original_Intent
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The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Original_Intent »

I am a big fan of delving into the esoteric and the deep secrets and the mysteries, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't become a primary focus and keep us from living the simple gospel. (I am guilty of this, by the way.)

The Old Law I consider as the Ten Commandments as well as a lot of performative observances as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The New Law under Christ is Two Commandments "upon which hang all The Law and The Prophets"
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.

All the talk about Kingdoms, and who goes where, and what premortal existence was like or how final judgment works, or alchemy, chakras, proper authority, MMP, etc. etc. simply doesn't matter a hill o' beans if we aren't striving in THIS LIFE to live those two laws, and examining OURSELVES on how we are falling short and repenting. I am not pointing any fingers other than at myself, I love listening to some enlightening lectures by Manly P. Hall, or reading some Hugh Nibley or C.S. Lewis or dozens of other sources. And certainly part of the pattern is finding those who are further advanced than you and learning from them, but obtaining a lot of learning (while it feels good and the ego loves it) it really is just going to be to our condemnation that we knew better but didn't act. And I am absolutely convinced that action needs to be built on the foundation of the two laws and repenting of straying from those two laws.

Which, I think is one reason that it saddens me to see so much effort put into the errors of the drunkards in Ephraim. I think it is important to point out, but there is a lot of energy put into it, there are only so many times that the many flaws in the existing organization can be pointed out.

And I think it is a tendency in any organized religion - the corrupt and corruptible are going to be attracted to power and wealth and even if they have greater understanding, almost all men are going to bend that greater knowledge to their own benefit.

You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Cruiserdude »

Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm I am a big fan of delving into the esoteric and the deep secrets and the mysteries, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't become a primary focus and keep us from living the simple gospel. (I am guilty of this, by the way.)

The Old Law I consider as the Ten Commandments as well as a lot of performative observances as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The New Law under Christ is Two Commandments "upon which hang all The Law and The Prophets"
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.

All the talk about Kingdoms, and who goes where, and what premortal existence was like or how final judgment works, or alchemy, chakras, proper authority, MMP, etc. etc. simply doesn't matter a hill o' beans if we aren't striving in THIS LIFE to live those two laws, and examining OURSELVES on how we are falling short and repenting. I am not pointing any fingers other than at myself, I love listening to some enlightening lectures by Manly P. Hall, or reading some Hugh Nibley or C.S. Lewis or dozens of other sources. And certainly part of the pattern is finding those who are further advanced than you and learning from them, but obtaining a lot of learning (while it feels good and the ego loves it) it really is just going to be to our condemnation that we knew better but didn't act. And I am absolutely convinced that action needs to be built on the foundation of the two laws and repenting of straying from those two laws.

Which, I think is one reason that it saddens me to see so much effort put into the errors of the drunkards in Ephraim. I think it is important to point out, but there is a lot of energy put into it, there are only so many times that the many flaws in the existing organization can be pointed out.

And I think it is a tendency in any organized religion - the corrupt and corruptible are going to be attracted to power and wealth and even if they have greater understanding, almost all men are going to bend that greater knowledge to their own benefit.

You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.
Heretic!!! (I am too 😉😁) you're spot on and I share the same perspective and outlook 👍

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creator
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by creator »

Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm... You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.
I can completely relate to so much of what you're saying, except for the mentality that "time is growing short", depending on what you mean by it; how you internalize that thought. But I'll refrain from expounding much on the concept of time (at this time).

Also your comment reminds me of a video I shared earlier and this related comment I made:
creator wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 12:35 pmWhen considering the purpose of this life, truth and love are two of the most important things. But what good is discovering all the truth in the world if you have no love for others. And think of how misguided love can be without truth. It's interesting to contemplate how a strength can become a weakness if we have a lot of one attribute but not enough of another.
Truth and Love are both extremely important, and so is balance, and the concept of all things in their proper order, time, and season.

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Original_Intent
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Original_Intent »

Maybe time is growing short for me, and that colors my perception. Not that I have any deadly ailment or anything like that, but I am almost 60, and I feel old and tired - probably more than I should at my age. So I'm probably just expressing a perspective in that regard...although I definitely also get the sense that "Things fall apart, the center cannot hold..."

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TheChristian
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by TheChristian »

It is simple faith in Jesus of Nazerath, yes a faith in Him alone that expresses itself in love that saves a man.
A living faith in Jesus always manifests a love for all, this is the sure sign of a Christian, the hallmark of his salvation.
As the Apostle Paul rightly said.....

"Without love, we are nothing."

Good & Global
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Good & Global »

I wouldn't necessarily disagree on feeling time is growing short. I think we may feel this because the world is radically changing to something else could be good or bad.

Yet there is simplicity of the gospel which is I think how we get through life and will definitely help us through the change. 1st and 2nd great commandments provide a guide and is the base.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by BeNotDeceived »

creator wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 2:40 pm
Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm... You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.
I can completely relate to so much of what you're saying, except for the mentality that "time is growing short", depending on what you mean by it; how you internalize that thought. But I'll refrain from expounding much on the concept of time (at this time).

Also your comment reminds me of a video I shared earlier and this related comment I made:
creator wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 12:35 pmWhen considering the purpose of this life, truth and love are two of the most important things. But what good is discovering all the truth in the world if you have no love for others. And think of how misguided love can be without truth. It's interesting to contemplate how a strength can become a weakness if we have a lot of one attribute but not enough of another.
Truth and Love are both extremely important, and so is balance, and the concept of all things in their proper order, time, and season.
My better half balances the equation nicely. ;)

God withholds his wrath for now, but for how long? 🐳

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TheDuke
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by TheDuke »

Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm I am a big fan of delving into the esoteric and the deep secrets and the mysteries, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't become a primary focus and keep us from living the simple gospel. (I am guilty of this, by the way.)

The Old Law I consider as the Ten Commandments as well as a lot of performative observances as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The New Law under Christ is Two Commandments "upon which hang all The Law and The Prophets"
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.

All the talk about Kingdoms, and who goes where, and what premortal existence was like or how final judgment works, or alchemy, chakras, proper authority, MMP, etc. etc. simply doesn't matter a hill o' beans if we aren't striving in THIS LIFE to live those two laws, and examining OURSELVES on how we are falling short and repenting. I am not pointing any fingers other than at myself, I love listening to some enlightening lectures by Manly P. Hall, or reading some Hugh Nibley or C.S. Lewis or dozens of other sources. And certainly part of the pattern is finding those who are further advanced than you and learning from them, but obtaining a lot of learning (while it feels good and the ego loves it) it really is just going to be to our condemnation that we knew better but didn't act. And I am absolutely convinced that action needs to be built on the foundation of the two laws and repenting of straying from those two laws.

Which, I think is one reason that it saddens me to see so much effort put into the errors of the drunkards in Ephraim. I think it is important to point out, but there is a lot of energy put into it, there are only so many times that the many flaws in the existing organization can be pointed out.

And I think it is a tendency in any organized religion - the corrupt and corruptible are going to be attracted to power and wealth and even if they have greater understanding, almost all men are going to bend that greater knowledge to their own benefit.

You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.
I guess it is important to cover the basics. But, if you believe in exaltation, you will not get there by loving your neighbor and the concept of loving god is "fluff" in my opinion as it cannot be measured but is only loving your neighbor as all the commandments just say to treat your neighbor as yourself.

There are multiple levels of rewards and some take "knowledge" some take more faith than knowledge but all require you to get alone with your neighbor.

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Luke
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Luke »

“It is scarcely necessary here to observe what we have previously noticed: That the glory which the Father and the Son have, is because they are just and holy beings; and that if they were lacking in one attribute or perfection which they have, the glory which they have, never could be enjoyed by them; for it requires them to be precisely what they are in order to enjoy it: and if the Savior gives this glory to any others, he must do it in the very way set forth in his prayer to his Father: by making them one with him, as he and the Father are one.—In so doing he would give them the glory which the Father has given him; and when his disciples are made one with the Father and the Son, as the Father and the Son are one, who cannot see the propriety of the Savior’s saying, The works which I do, shall they do; and greater works than these shall they do, be cause I go to the Father?
These teachings of the Savior must clearly show unto us the nature of salvation; and what he proposed unto the human family when he proposed to save them—That he proposed to make them like unto himself; and he was like the Father, the great prototype of all saved beings: And for any portion of the human family to be assimilated into their likeness is to be saved; and to be unlike them is to be destroyed: and on this hinge turns the door of salvation.” (Joseph Smith, Lectures on Faith, Lecture 7:15-16)

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Original_Intent
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Original_Intent »

TheDuke wrote: May 28th, 2023, 10:47 am
Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm I am a big fan of delving into the esoteric and the deep secrets and the mysteries, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't become a primary focus and keep us from living the simple gospel. (I am guilty of this, by the way.)

The Old Law I consider as the Ten Commandments as well as a lot of performative observances as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The New Law under Christ is Two Commandments "upon which hang all The Law and The Prophets"
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.

All the talk about Kingdoms, and who goes where, and what premortal existence was like or how final judgment works, or alchemy, chakras, proper authority, MMP, etc. etc. simply doesn't matter a hill o' beans if we aren't striving in THIS LIFE to live those two laws, and examining OURSELVES on how we are falling short and repenting. I am not pointing any fingers other than at myself, I love listening to some enlightening lectures by Manly P. Hall, or reading some Hugh Nibley or C.S. Lewis or dozens of other sources. And certainly part of the pattern is finding those who are further advanced than you and learning from them, but obtaining a lot of learning (while it feels good and the ego loves it) it really is just going to be to our condemnation that we knew better but didn't act. And I am absolutely convinced that action needs to be built on the foundation of the two laws and repenting of straying from those two laws.

Which, I think is one reason that it saddens me to see so much effort put into the errors of the drunkards in Ephraim. I think it is important to point out, but there is a lot of energy put into it, there are only so many times that the many flaws in the existing organization can be pointed out.

And I think it is a tendency in any organized religion - the corrupt and corruptible are going to be attracted to power and wealth and even if they have greater understanding, almost all men are going to bend that greater knowledge to their own benefit.

You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.
I guess it is important to cover the basics. But, if you believe in exaltation, you will not get there by loving your neighbor and the concept of loving god is "fluff" in my opinion as it cannot be measured but is only loving your neighbor as all the commandments just say to treat your neighbor as yourself.

There are multiple levels of rewards and some take "knowledge" some take more faith than knowledge but all require you to get alone with your neighbor.
I like that you chose John Wayne as your avatar, because you have such a Western mindset.

If we love God with all our heart, mind, and strength we are going to try to be like Him so that we can become one with Him. We cannot become One with Him if we are not like Him.

When we love our neighbor as ourselves, we will also try to assist them as best we can on THEIR UNIQUE PATH but leading towards Oneness with God and also since we seek to be One with God we will be One with them.

Following the two great commandments is not the basics, my friend. Perhaps your current perception of the two great commandments is covering the basics, but at some point you will realize that all is contained within them.

I used to think high IQ was the greatest thing to strive after, but I am coming to understand that wisdom is more important than knowledge.

Knowledge can get us into all kinds of trouble. Wisdom, which I consider right use of knowledge can go quite a ways even with very little knowledge. Wisdom will guide us to the next pieces of knowledge.

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Niemand
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Niemand »

Original_Intent wrote: May 28th, 2023, 12:16 pm I used to think high IQ was the greatest thing to strive after, but I am coming to understand that wisdom is more important than knowledge.

Knowledge can get us into all kinds of trouble. Wisdom, which I consider right use of knowledge can go quite a ways even with very little knowledge. Wisdom will guide us to the next pieces of knowledge.
Science and education are full of people who are knowledgeable but not wise.

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TheDuke
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by TheDuke »

Please note that I never said IQ or having lots of information was key to god. I mean it is after all "god finding himself the most intelligent of all" and "glory of god is intelligence". It is true that love is mandatory attribute, but only a step. A very key step and those working on and obtaining it, like obtaining being "born again" is important. Can't get into the celestial w/o it. and sure, we can banter back-and-forth about which of the commandments or attributes are greater, but all (as per Luke) are required.

Each person needs to find their mission and live to it. But, it just isn't as simple as just feeling love, if it was then Jesus would have had a one weekend ministry and died and got it over. but seems there are many pages of stuff. Sure we can say "charity" is the greatest and if you're full of it, all will be well. But any god w/o knowledge and "proving here with" isn't going to be there by only love.

Besides saying love god, neighbor, self, is measureless and both easy and impossible. BTW it never says to love anyone more "than yourself", just "as yourself" and "with all your heart". How do we measure this love anyway? I've seen people just on this forum expressing their love for god and ripping a new waste entry point into every opposing viewpoint simultaneously. I hear expressions of love while ripping the FP, etc...

Sure the gospel is simple, you just need to want to be like god. But as Joseph said.

"Here then is eternal life to know the only wise and true god you have got to learn how to make yourselves gods in order to save yourselves and be kings and priests to god the same as all gods have done by going from a small capacity to a great capacity from a small degree to another from grace to grace until the resurrection of the dead from exaltation to exaltation till you are able to sit in everlasting burnings and everlasting power and glory as those who have gone before sit enthroned."

IcedKoffee
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by IcedKoffee »

Original_Intent wrote: May 28th, 2023, 12:16 pm
TheDuke wrote: May 28th, 2023, 10:47 am
Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm I am a big fan of delving into the esoteric and the deep secrets and the mysteries, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't become a primary focus and keep us from living the simple gospel. (I am guilty of this, by the way.)

The Old Law I consider as the Ten Commandments as well as a lot of performative observances as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The New Law under Christ is Two Commandments "upon which hang all The Law and The Prophets"
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.

All the talk about Kingdoms, and who goes where, and what premortal existence was like or how final judgment works, or alchemy, chakras, proper authority, MMP, etc. etc. simply doesn't matter a hill o' beans if we aren't striving in THIS LIFE to live those two laws, and examining OURSELVES on how we are falling short and repenting. I am not pointing any fingers other than at myself, I love listening to some enlightening lectures by Manly P. Hall, or reading some Hugh Nibley or C.S. Lewis or dozens of other sources. And certainly part of the pattern is finding those who are further advanced than you and learning from them, but obtaining a lot of learning (while it feels good and the ego loves it) it really is just going to be to our condemnation that we knew better but didn't act. And I am absolutely convinced that action needs to be built on the foundation of the two laws and repenting of straying from those two laws.

Which, I think is one reason that it saddens me to see so much effort put into the errors of the drunkards in Ephraim. I think it is important to point out, but there is a lot of energy put into it, there are only so many times that the many flaws in the existing organization can be pointed out.

And I think it is a tendency in any organized religion - the corrupt and corruptible are going to be attracted to power and wealth and even if they have greater understanding, almost all men are going to bend that greater knowledge to their own benefit.

You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.
I guess it is important to cover the basics. But, if you believe in exaltation, you will not get there by loving your neighbor and the concept of loving god is "fluff" in my opinion as it cannot be measured but is only loving your neighbor as all the commandments just say to treat your neighbor as yourself.

There are multiple levels of rewards and some take "knowledge" some take more faith than knowledge but all require you to get alone with your neighbor.
I like that you chose John Wayne as your avatar, because you have such a Western mindset.

If we love God with all our heart, mind, and strength we are going to try to be like Him so that we can become one with Him. We cannot become One with Him if we are not like Him.

When we love our neighbor as ourselves, we will also try to assist them as best we can on THEIR UNIQUE PATH but leading towards Oneness with God and also since we seek to be One with God we will be One with them.

Following the two great commandments is not the basics, my friend. Perhaps your current perception of the two great commandments is covering the basics, but at some point you will realize that all is contained within them.

I used to think high IQ was the greatest thing to strive after, but I am coming to understand that wisdom is more important than knowledge.

Knowledge can get us into all kinds of trouble. Wisdom, which I consider right use of knowledge can go quite a ways even with very little knowledge. Wisdom will guide us to the next pieces of knowledge.
“Following the two great commandments is not the basics, my friend. Perhaps your current perception of the two great commandments is covering the basics, but at some point you will realize that all is contained within them.”

Well said!

IcedKoffee
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by IcedKoffee »

Good & Global wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 6:58 pm I wouldn't necessarily disagree on feeling time is growing short. I think we may feel this because the world is radically changing to something else could be good or bad.

Yet there is simplicity of the gospel which is I think how we get through life and will definitely help us through the change. 1st and 2nd great commandments provide a guide and is the base.
“I wouldn't necessarily disagree on feeling time is growing short. I think we may feel this because the world is radically changing to something else could be good or bad.”

Agenda 2030 is one of the highest priorities for the New World Order. In that regard, time is growing short for all of us!

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Ymarsakar
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Ymarsakar »

To nie und original, knowledge of things that r not true is present in academia and other fallen schools.

Iq lacks spiritual and emotional intellect. Eq and sq.

I concur with working on urself. That was my own chief quest in 2001 to 2006 and then from 06 to 15.

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Thinker
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Thinker »

Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm… Two Commandments "upon which hang all The Law and The Prophets"
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength.
Love thy neighbor as thyself.

All the talk about Kingdoms, and who goes where, and what premortal existence was like or how final judgment works, or alchemy, chakras, proper authority, MMP, etc. etc. simply doesn't matter a hill o' beans if we aren't striving in THIS LIFE to live those two laws, and examining OURSELVES on how we are falling short and repenting. ..
Thanks for this important reminder.

I’ll modify a quote by Epicurus:

“Empty are scripture, prophecies and doctrine which do not relieve any human suffering.”

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TheChristian
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by TheChristian »

The righteousness of faith speaks in this way,
“Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

"That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus,
and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead you will be saved."

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness,
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the Scripture says,
“Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

And Paul tells us that being "Saved" is not a matter of bare salvation, but to dwell with our Lord for ever in glory.

My youngest brother was but 17 years old when he said his first prayer, he asked Jesus if he was real and had a marvellous encounter which revolutionized and transformed his life.
A wonderous influence fell apon him, filling him with a joy, love and glory beyond description and a gentle voice spoke unto him in the common language of his day.

Among the words spoken to my brother whom knew not the bible, were ....

"Whosever believes in Me shall have timeless happiness" Amen.

Notice the words of the Lord Jesus to my brother, he used "Whosoever" and "Believes" in "Me" (Jesus) shall have Timeless Happiness.
No mention of great clumps of endless mysteries, knowlegde, secret doctrine to save ones soul,
Just a simple faith in Jesus our Lord...

My youngest brother had recieved the Biblical promise of "Whosever in the latter days that calls apon the Lord (Jesus) shall recieve Timeless Happyness (Eternal life)

Did not our Lord say
"Come all you that are weary and heavy laden,
Take my yoke (My teaching) apon you,
Which is "LIGHT" and "EASY" to carry."

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SJR3t2
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by SJR3t2 »

I show a quote from JS and many passages from the BoM showing that Torah and Law of Moses are different here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu7_0J2 ... n&index=26. I have a few passages that show this here https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/. D&C 76 is not about 3 kingdoms, and is all over the Bible as I show here https://seekingyhwh.org/scripture-study/2023-05-04/.

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Thinker
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Thinker »

Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm… living the simple gospel.

The Old Law I consider as the Ten Commandments as well as a lot of performative observances as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The New Law under Christ is Two Commandments "upon which hang all The Law and The Prophets"
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength.
Love thy neighbor as thyself...

You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.
The Ten Commandments: The Significance of God's Laws in Everyday Life by Laura Schlessinger, enhanced my understanding & living of those basic 10 commandments. Eg., Taking God’s name in vain I used to think of as cussing but it may also be using God/religion in ways that are ungodly, for gain, power over others, pride etc.

In some ways, those commandments & the greatest commandments to Love God/others/self are getting a general aerial view of a map. They are great to keep us from going majorly off course, but some issues may be much more intricate and uniquely personal. Eg., Humility is probably 1 of the only gifts we can truly offer God - but pride gets in the way for most of us at some point. Why? What is the underlying reason for the pride, or other emotions?

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Ymarsakar
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Ymarsakar »

Pride is akin to a teenage rebellion. In order to grow their individual personality and will, they often do so by reacting to other people, differentiating themselves from the herd. That often means they are no longer as obedient and they no longer follow majority trends/fashions.

They want something unique to their own path. It is also an example of suppression of trauma and internal desires. If a person was too obedient growing up, then when they are a teenager they will rebel. But if a person growing up contested the world and their parental authorities, then as a teenager they will feel safer in their boundaries and learn to grow with it to the point where perhaps they feel closer to their parents rather than resistant to their parents.


Thinker wrote: June 8th, 2023, 4:12 pm
Original_Intent wrote: May 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm… living the simple gospel.

The Old Law I consider as the Ten Commandments as well as a lot of performative observances as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The New Law under Christ is Two Commandments "upon which hang all The Law and The Prophets"
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength.
Love thy neighbor as thyself...

You need to work on yourself, and expand outwards to your family and friends. We need to get there or be destroyed. Time is growing short, and there is much to be done.
The Ten Commandments: The Significance of God's Laws in Everyday Life by Laura Schlessinger, enhanced my understanding & living of those basic 10 commandments. Eg., Taking God’s name in vain I used to think of as cussing but it may also be using God/religion in ways that are ungodly, for gain, power over others, pride etc.

In some ways, those commandments & the greatest commandments to Love God/others/self are getting a general aerial view of a map. They are great to keep us from going majorly off course, but some issues may be much more intricate and uniquely personal. Eg., Humility is probably 1 of the only gifts we can truly offer God - but pride gets in the way for most of us at some point. Why? What is the underlying reason for the pride, or other emotions?

JohnnyL
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by JohnnyL »

TheDuke wrote: May 28th, 2023, 10:47 am ...

I guess it is important to cover the basics. But, if you believe in exaltation, you will not get there by loving your neighbor and the concept of loving god is "fluff" in my opinion as it cannot be measured but is only loving your neighbor as all the commandments just say to treat your neighbor as yourself.

There are multiple levels of rewards and some take "knowledge" some take more faith than knowledge but all require you to get alone with your neighbor.
From this week's Sunday School lesson:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15: 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

JohnnyL
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by JohnnyL »

Ymarsakar wrote: June 8th, 2023, 7:17 pm Pride is akin to a teenage rebellion. In order to grow their individual personality and will, they often do so by reacting to other people, differentiating themselves from the herd. That often means they are no longer as obedient and they no longer follow majority trends/fashions.

They want something unique to their own path. It is also an example of suppression of trauma and internal desires. If a person was too obedient growing up, then when they are a teenager they will rebel. But if a person growing up contested the world and their parental authorities, then as a teenager they will feel safer in their boundaries and learn to grow with it to the point where perhaps they feel closer to their parents rather than resistant to their parents.
Sometimes. ;)

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TheDuke
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by TheDuke »

JohnnyL wrote: June 9th, 2023, 6:56 am
Ymarsakar wrote: June 8th, 2023, 7:17 pm Pride is akin to a teenage rebellion. In order to grow their individual personality and will, they often do so by reacting to other people, differentiating themselves from the herd. That often means they are no longer as obedient and they no longer follow majority trends/fashions.

They want something unique to their own path. It is also an example of suppression of trauma and internal desires. If a person was too obedient growing up, then when they are a teenager they will rebel. But if a person growing up contested the world and their parental authorities, then as a teenager they will feel safer in their boundaries and learn to grow with it to the point where perhaps they feel closer to their parents rather than resistant to their parents.
Sometimes. ;)
I don't disagree with the concept it is the vague interpretation. How vague is "love god", only more vague is "keep his commandments". What are his commandments? Moses' ones? the 2 he gave? temple recommend questions? The two he gave are also vague, i.e. to love god (circular) and love neighbor as yourself. Love your neighbor (could land you a night in jail if they are young), as yourself, what does it mean to love yourself? All this is circular, that is my point. Not unimportant, but ill defined and immeasurable. So, to me you love god, when you don't intentionally hurt anyone around you. Done.

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Thinker
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Re: The simplicity of the gospel

Post by Thinker »

Ymarsakar wrote: June 8th, 2023, 7:17 pm Pride is akin to a teenage rebellion. In order to grow their individual personality and will, they often do so by reacting to other people, differentiating themselves from the herd. That often means they are no longer as obedient and they no longer follow majority trends/fashions.

They want something unique to their own path. It is also an example of suppression of trauma and internal desires. If a person was too obedient growing up, then when they are a teenager they will rebel. But if a person growing up contested the world and their parental authorities, then as a teenager they will feel safer in their boundaries and learn to grow with it to the point where perhaps they feel closer to their parents rather than resistant to their parents.
Good point. In a way, some pride or confidence is needed to practice active faith. But humility and being teachable are also needed. It seems there’s constant balancing for a state of equilibrium.

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