Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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harakim
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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JuneBug12000 wrote: May 22nd, 2023, 5:09 pm
harakim wrote: May 22nd, 2023, 4:33 pm
JuneBug12000 wrote: May 22nd, 2023, 3:25 pm Its been in the back of my mind for sometime that maybe, just maybe, this is really hell and we chose wrong and that is why we are here.

Maybe the reason why this life is the time to prepare to meet God is because we already made mistakes and this is our last chance to get back on track.

A chance to see what a world without God is like, so that we will choose Him.

This is not a place of order. Rewards for the wicked, the righteousness punished for their righteousness.

Why a veil of forgetfulness?

Why would Christ come to this world? Who else would kill their God?

The fact that even innocent children are abused here in earth in horrendous ways.

The fact that choosing God can and does provide material benefits (the signs that follow the believers are found throughout the scriptures.)

I'm not sure if all of the implications, but it sure seems more likely everyday.
A lot of life is what you focus on. If you focus on the bad, it will seem like hell. If you focus on the good, the things going on in reality right around you, it's usually pretty good!

One of the reasons we are here is to learn confidence in ourselves and what we are really made of. You can do more than you think. And that requires there to be bad things, and frankly, bad things to focus on. Focus on the good.
You misunderstand me.

I am not afraid.

I have a good life and see miracles regularly.

But I can objectively look at the world and see something is not right. Many things are not right. I can focus on the good, and do, but I have seen evil as well. I need to understand reality to understand what am really here to do.

The LDS version of events makes it seem like this is roses with a little hidden bits of evil we don't need to worry our pretty little heads about.

But it does not adequately explain reality.

Ignoring the truth seems to be a great delusion, and there seem to be few willing to see clearly.

Even on this board their are so many rejecting the actual words of Christ for what someone told them His words mean. Even when that directly contradicts what He said.

The threads on money have people defending savings and retirement and investments. But that is not what Christ taught. It is in fact directly opposite to His own word and teachings. Even His talents parables are not about money.

What about government? People fall back on quotes/scriptures from modern LDS presidents about the America being chosen and then use that to give authority to quotes from founding fathers, again even when it directly contradicts what Christ taught.

They love to hear "smooth prophesies" that justify accumulating wealth and taking one's ease. Even as they claim they see the problems with the world and what is coming.

I can no longer stand the cognitive dissonance.

I will have the truth.

There -is- good in the world, and it comes from God. But there is much evil in this world as well, and entropy seems to be the default on this planet. It is only by intervention from God that entropy is held back by any measure.
I agree with this

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TheDuke
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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I guess as I have stated on the two threads I started a couple weeks ago about the third part and Lucifer's desire to obtain the father's honor that the third part are here among us. So the question in the OP is too vague. I it referring to all, some or few or most of the humans on the earth? Those in this dispensation or all of the dispensations?

I do believe the third part are here. and I don't think "third" is a ratio but just that there are 3 parts or groups or sections or types of people. Abraham three mentions souls, spirits and intelligences. He also mentions god (the father in spirit form) chose the son (in spirit form) to lead the creation and stood in the midst of the "souls" for the benefit of "these" (the intelligences). I feel the scriptures teach that the third part are the not-yet children of god. they may choose to become children of Jesus or Lucifer. They may go on to add to their next (second) estate by following Jesus or go back where they came from with no glory (D&C 88:32).

My feeling (no revelation on this point) is that they are the super-majority of humans in this creation, and likely at this very time. However, there are surely many "spirits" or spirit children working on progression from telestial and terrestrial (later would become elect when ready for celestial); and some/may within the LDS faith working on exaltation within the celestial as the "souls" and noble and great ones, and the elect, those given Jesus of his father that were elect under another savior (he lost not one of them).

So, yes some are and no some aren't. We are surely a mix of all three parts on this forum.

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Thinker
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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edavid wrote: May 28th, 2023, 10:31 am
markharr wrote: May 22nd, 2023, 4:02 pm No, its not hell.

There can't be hell until there is judgement day

There can't be judgement day until there is a trial.


What kind of a trial would it be if it was all sunshine and roses?
Judgement day is every day. It is in the last judgement, wherein the "last" time we judge ourselves and others, that our "last judgement" is made perfect, and we enter into the kingdom of God within us, heaven on earth if you will. This is hell, inasmuch as we create it. The trial is here and now, for today is the day of our salvation.
I am 98% convinced that indeed we are our own judges & that after life, we will choose which heavenly or hellish state we feel most comfortable in. So… maybe one key is to practice being most comfortable with truth, honesty, love/empathy and good. Easier said than done.

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Niemand
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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Thinker wrote: June 8th, 2023, 4:23 pm I am 98% convinced that indeed we are our own judges & that after life, we will choose which heavenly or hellish state we feel most comfortable in. So… maybe one key is to practice being most comfortable with truth, honesty, love/empathy and good. Easier said than done.
What would happen to psycho- and sociopaths? These folk have no consciences.

Many evil people think themselves justified.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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They would need to be quarantined or self contained until they could at the soul/spirit level, stop harming themselves or others.

Psychopaths do in fact have a conscience, but this comes from the hell worlds that were ruled by satans' vampires. Many of these souls, if it is not due to immaturity here, came from backgrounds that prioritized might as right.

Thus if you told the psychopath that they should do X because it helps them survive and avoid Y because they will be destroyed, they would find this logick makes sense to them. And the logick of compassion and other stuff, makes no sense to them, for those were not present in their hell worlds.
Niemand wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:47 pm
Thinker wrote: June 8th, 2023, 4:23 pm I am 98% convinced that indeed we are our own judges & that after life, we will choose which heavenly or hellish state we feel most comfortable in. So… maybe one key is to practice being most comfortable with truth, honesty, love/empathy and good. Easier said than done.
What would happen to psycho- and sociopaths? These folk have no consciences.

Many evil people think themselves justified.
Last edited by Ymarsakar on June 8th, 2023, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Niemand
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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Ymarsakar wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:50 pm They would need to be quarantined or self contained until they could at the soul/spirit level, stop harming themselves or others.
There are people who wrestle with guilt but those who don't are more dangerous.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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Niemand wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:51 pm
Ymarsakar wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:50 pm They would need to be quarantined or self contained until they could at the soul/spirit level, stop harming themselves or others.
There are people who wrestle with guilt but those who don't are more dangerous.
Most of them are in your *humanity's * top religious, lawyer, doctor, and political professions ; )

The ones who don't understand shame or guilt.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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Niemand wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:47 pm
Thinker wrote: June 8th, 2023, 4:23 pm I am 98% convinced that indeed we are our own judges & that after life, we will choose which heavenly or hellish state we feel most comfortable in. So… maybe one key is to practice being most comfortable with truth, honesty, love/empathy and good. Easier said than done.
What would happen to psycho- and sociopaths? These folk have no consciences.

Many evil people think themselves justified.
When they stand before God, I don't think they'll be able to continue to lie to themselves about how wonderful they are. The glory and goodness of God will break through whatever lies they've told themselves here. They will clearly see their own filthiness before God and long to be anywhere but in his presence.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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what a silver reflection in a mirror

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FrankOne
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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Niemand wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:51 pm
Ymarsakar wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:50 pm They would need to be quarantined or self contained until they could at the soul/spirit level, stop harming themselves or others.
There are people who wrestle with guilt but those who don't are more dangerous.
that may be a bit far reaching of a statement.

some would say that guilt isn't necessary to progress toward God. Mistakes are acknowledged and corrected .... then...move on.

Guilt is painful. Pain motivates. Guilt used to be a very effective motivator for men to change. Now? Well...it's a mixed bag of nuts and too long of a subject to discuss. Society has gone nuts and for at least 80% of the population, there is no hope in this life. Good that we're immortal and God loves us. There's always time. His plan is perfect.

JuneBug12000
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

Post by JuneBug12000 »

Ymarsakar wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:53 pm
Niemand wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:51 pm
Ymarsakar wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:50 pm They would need to be quarantined or self contained until they could at the soul/spirit level, stop harming themselves or others.
There are people who wrestle with guilt but those who don't are more dangerous.
Most of them are in your *humanity's * top religious, lawyer, doctor, and political professions ; )

The ones who don't understand shame or guilt.
I agree. Some are born that way and some practice it.

I am always stunned by people who can just flat out lie on TV or in life and even when caught just ignore it and move on. Politicians definitely come to mind..

I have wondered more than once how they get information, if they discount anything negative ever said about them.

How do they take correction since they seem to just do and keep doing, right or wrong.

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TheDuke
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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Silver Pie wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:54 pm
Niemand wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:47 pm
Thinker wrote: June 8th, 2023, 4:23 pm I am 98% convinced that indeed we are our own judges & that after life, we will choose which heavenly or hellish state we feel most comfortable in. So… maybe one key is to practice being most comfortable with truth, honesty, love/empathy and good. Easier said than done.
What would happen to psycho- and sociopaths? These folk have no consciences.

Many evil people think themselves justified.
When they stand before God, I don't think they'll be able to continue to lie to themselves about how wonderful they are. The glory and goodness of God will break through whatever lies they've told themselves here. They will clearly see their own filthiness before God and long to be anywhere but in his presence.
personally, I don't agree with this. I think those who are spiritually blind, not blinded only by their circumstances here, but the spirit is still evil. Will remain such after this life. I don't think it is god's way to make them feel bad about themselves then sentence them to hell! The concept of good-and-evil and hell is only a short-term construct to effect change. When it is too late to change, then god will judge them and let them be. I don't see him making them feel bad about it. It isn't their fault really, they just aren't progressed enough (yet) to become his children, but then neither are the other trillions of lower spirits on this earth (or if you prefer --- intelligences) that provide lower life here.

BTW D&C 88 24 and 32 say that those who fail here (first estate) will obtain "quickening", i.e. resurrection; a kingdom of no glory; and will return to where they came from.... doesn't say SoP and doesn't say they will feel guilty.

BTW one more thought the BoM doesn't say we will remember everything about eternity after this life, but only that when we stand before god for judgment we will remember our guilt and sins. So, we will see ourselves and growth for what we are and will accept his judgment. Doesn't say we will remember anything from before or that we will feel guilty after the judgment, I mean "guilty" feelings or remorse, not the acknowledgement of our "guilt" or more precisely the righteousness of our earned reward (or lack thereof). iMO

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Silver Pie
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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TheDuke wrote: June 9th, 2023, 12:11 pm I don't see him making them feel bad about it.
I don't see God doing that, either. It's a filthy being's natural reaction to being in the presence of God, whether their wickedness was their fault or not.
Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.
Alma 34:34-35

Moroni doesn't sound like there are any exceptions to the feelings of guilt. Sounds like everyone will see their nakedness before God, and the wicked (sociopath/psychopath included) will feel horrible in the presence of God - so much so that hell will be a relief to be in. It's nice to feel compassion toward these dangerous and satanic people, especially if it turns out they are somehow innocent of their crimes because of extenuating circumstances, but the reality is that they will come to see their sins quite clearly.
Behold, will ye believe in the day of your visitation—behold, when the Lord shall come, yea, even that great day when the earth shall be rolled together as a scroll, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, yea, in that great day when ye shall be brought to stand before the Lamb of God—then will ye say that there is no God? Then will ye longer deny the Christ, or can ye behold the Lamb of God? Do ye suppose that ye shall dwell with him under a consciousness of your guilt? Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being, when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws?

Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your filthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell. For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you.
Mormon 9:2-5

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Thinker
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Re: Hell on Earth Are we the third part that fell?

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Niemand wrote: June 8th, 2023, 5:47 pm
Thinker wrote: June 8th, 2023, 4:23 pm I am 98% convinced that indeed we are our own judges & that after life, we will choose which heavenly or hellish state we feel most comfortable in. So… maybe one key is to practice being most comfortable with truth, honesty, love/empathy and good. Easier said than done.
What would happen to psycho- and sociopaths? These folk have no consciences.

Many evil people think themselves justified.
I think that is a big part of evil - justifying oneself - no accountability, no response-ability.

Of course nobody has lived to tell, though NDE’s etc come close, as to what happens in the afterlife. Still, it seems likely that those who cannot handle the truth & actively try to twist it & hide from it, will feel very uncomfortable when they are nothing but consciousness & there’s no way to hide. They then group together with others like them where it’s familiar but they make themselves miserable by their refusal to accept realities.

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