LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **April 20th, 2023, 5:27 pm**

HereWeGo wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 12:55 pm
TheDuke wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 11:32 am I agree. We must remember there is a huge difference between entering into and living eternal marriage vs. telestial marriage. You may not know which when you begin, but have to assume the former. But, it seems unlikely that more than a very few will be sealed by HSoP. Some surely will. Perhaps you even get to choose. but think about it. both partners must be ready for the highest level of CK, not middle or lower salvation in CK or even terrestrial. Next you must be equally yoked in eternal terms or someone will not be happy. I don't literally buy GBH statement any two can make themselves eternally happy. Perhaps I'm wrong, but if so it is because they are truly in love with no holds barred and willing to work things out no matter what.
Excellent summary.

Let me pose an idea. We get married in the temple and are told that when the Holy Spirit of Promise seals the marriage, it will be eternal. Until this promise is sealed, we are simply in a Telestial Marriage.

I don't think the sealing is something silent which happens without notice. I think it would be on the level of what happens with a Second Comforter type experience -- where the Lord literally comes to you in person.

I believe Multiple Mortal Probations is real. I think it is probable that each time we have a mortal existence, we have a different mate who was picked for us to help us learn those things we are supposed to learn during that existence. I have been married 3 times and divorced twice. Each of my spouses has taught me things and helped me change into the person that I am. There are many things I wouldn't have learned had I only been married to one of them.

I believe that it is possible, in a mortal existence, to progress to the point that the Savior comes to you and accepts you as his son (Terrestrial Kingdom). He will eventually present you to His Father who will then accept you as His son (Celestial Kingdom). By this point, I believe the Holy Spirit of Promise will be sealed upon you and your eternal mate will be sealed to you forever.

I haven't had a powerful experience where the Holy Spirit of Promise has taken place.

I believe in all you say here! I don't see the savior coming in this life directly to someone as a requirement but surely possible and desirable. I think if he comes it is CK. Also, it is my experience that the HSoP can come to you, quietly but noticably and seal you up and you can get confirmation at a later point.

Lastly, if you read carefully (they are on line for us before 1990) the covenants that you are sealed to, you will find that the only interrelated ones are taking each other of your own free will, which seems like legal marriage stuff. All else you and your partner say to the Lord. It says if you live up to your covenants with your partner until the end (HSoP ratification) it will be so. It is very possible and seems even likely that the point at which each partner has proven their love and ability/desire to keep the covenants may be at different times. This is hard and likely why the initial HSoP sealing is quiet, cannot use it to be pushy, each learns the lesson at their own pace. The Lord has even told me that it is possible for one partner to obtain the HSoP and the other not to, at least in this life. Just FYI.

Posted: **April 20th, 2023, 10:36 pm**

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 11:02 am Read the research, look at the statistics, they all say the same thing: Adults and children in an unhappy marriage/ home are generally much better off married than divorced, in about every way.

...

That is not a 'statistic'. That is a point of view.

And how might such a thing be measured? Well, little Johnny, you may be in a miserable household with married parents, but yes, we can assure you it's better than being in a divorced home.

Again the Mormon myopia. We know what's best for you.
dc

Posted: **April 21st, 2023, 8:30 am**

David13 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 10:36 pm
JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 11:02 am Read the research, look at the statistics, they all say the same thing: Adults and children in an unhappy marriage/ home are generally much better off married than divorced, in about every way.
...
That is not a 'statistic'. That is a point of view.

And how might such a thing be measured? Well, little Johnny, you may be in a miserable household with married parents, but yes, we can assure you it's better than being in a divorced home.

Again the Mormon myopia. We know what's best for you.
dc

The POV is to "Read the research, look at the statistics". Search something like "research and statistics that staying married is better than getting divorced for couples and children" and variations. You'll find it's pretty clear. Get some good marriage/ divorce books. Go to dalrock.wordpress.com and search (you might love that site).

You can read each study to see how they measure.

Mormon myopia? Lol, most of those studies you'll pull up were done by non-members, so I'm not sure how that fits in.

Posted: **April 21st, 2023, 9:13 am**

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 21st, 2023, 8:30 am
David13 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 10:36 pm
JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 11:02 am Read the research, look at the statistics, they all say the same thing: Adults and children in an unhappy marriage/ home are generally much better off married than divorced, in about every way.
...
That is not a 'statistic'. That is a point of view.

And how might such a thing be measured? Well, little Johnny, you may be in a miserable household with married parents, but yes, we can assure you it's better than being in a divorced home.

Again the Mormon myopia. We know what's best for you.
dc
The POV is to "Read the research, look at the statistics". Search something like "research and statistics that staying married is better than getting divorced for couples and children" and variations. You'll find it's pretty clear. Get some good marriage/ divorce books. Go to dalrock.wordpress.com and search (you might love that site).

You can read each study to see how they measure.

Mormon myopia? Lol, most of those studies you'll pull up were done by non-members, so I'm not sure how that fits in.

Yeah, I gotcha the first time. Thanks, I'll pass.
dc

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 9:28 am**

Telavian wrote: ↑April 18th, 2023, 2:53 pm
Grassland wrote: ↑April 18th, 2023, 12:48 pm Rob wrote on this topic likely because his wife wants to get out of being married to him (can't blame her) and he's trying to spiritually clamp down on her.
That would be sad.
He states he is sinless and I would guess that means he is never wrong because everything he does is what Christ would do.
It would be hard to be married to someone that is never wrong.

Thank you very much for reminding me of that. By chance can you find the post where he said he is sinless? No worries if it's too hard to find. Just checking in case. Thanks again.

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 9:32 am**

Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:28 am Thank you very much for reminding me of that. By chance can you find the post where he said he is sinless? No worries if it's too hard to find. Just checking in case. Thanks again.

He often highlights and stresses how exceptional and rare he is. It’s an attitude I’ve never seen in scriptural prophets or Joseph Smith

“Hey guys, just popping off some thoughts. You know. Just flicking some ideas at you inbetween reps while im working out. I work out every day. I plan my schedule out every minute of every day. I accomplish so much. I just do so much. I rise up for God. I keep coming back. Other people don’t do enough. You aren’t doing enough. Anyways, im going to get to all this in deeper detail when my books come out”

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am**

BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:32 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:28 am Thank you very much for reminding me of that. By chance can you find the post where he said he is sinless? No worries if it's too hard to find. Just checking in case. Thanks again.
He often highlights and stresses how exceptional and rare he is. It’s an attitude I’ve never seen in scriptural prophets or Joseph Smith

So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 9:40 am**

Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:32 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:28 am Thank you very much for reminding me of that. By chance can you find the post where he said he is sinless? No worries if it's too hard to find. Just checking in case. Thanks again.
He often highlights and stresses how exceptional and rare he is. It’s an attitude I’ve never seen in scriptural prophets or Joseph Smith
So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?

How many LDS can’t stop reading institutional corporate watered down dogma? How many Christians can’t get enough Christianity ? How come Muslims can’t get enough of commentary based on their doctrine?

Rob admits only maybe 100 people follow him. Denver has a bigger following. You really want to play a numbers game?

There are many people from different faiths and ideologies who have commentators that they quote and look to for guidance. If you’re an ardent Rob supporter, someone who described the LDS church as being nothing of any more value to God than a menstrual rag, you probably think the hundreds of thousands of LDS who quote general authorities and find inspiration from them are wrong in what they worship. But you’re telling me that if a few dozen people (compared to hundreds of thousands of LDS who quote LDS leaders) quote Rob, that is a sign that he is what he claims he is.

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 10:29 am**

Mamabear wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 2:28 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 2:13 pm
Mamabear wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:06 am

No it’s not wrong. My personal fave on here is that guy who says it’s wrong even in cases where the man beats up his wife.
A man who beats up his wife is not of the lord. He and his wife will never enter his Father’s kingdom.

Is divorce adultery, yes, does it matter at this point? She is damned either way.

Proverbs 21

9 It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.

19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.

Can we not switch the sexes on both verses?

Should she divorce him or just separate from him until he repents in sackcloth?

Many women beat their husbands, mentally…. The Bible does not say to divorce her, why can’t we judge what is right?

You keep judging all men base off of the worse men.
So because the Bible doesn’t cover spousal abuse, it can’t be a reason for divorce? Perhaps important verses that mentioned this type of thing were removed?!
I think God expects more of us than to put up with abuse. But considering the church’s tolerance of abuse it doesn’t surprise me in the least. By the way, a man that is abused by his wife should seek a divorce. It goes both ways.

“A man who beats up his wife is not of the lord. He and his wife will never enter his Father’s kingdom.”

A man who beats up his wife is not of the lord. He will never enter his Father’s kingdom.
FTFY

Did you fix that? Is she not accountable for her actions of marrying a devil worshipper? Does she not listen to the Holy Ghost?

As long as women get their way in everyway possible or they will have an excuse for failure. Their way leads to hell in a handbag also, it’s a catch 22

Try telling your wife that, “if we as a society did not let women crossdress 100 years ago we wouldn’t have to worry about men entering women’s bathrooms today!”

I have told my wife, I’m sure she rolled her eyes.

Jesus called the OT the Law! What does it say about men and women dressing? To us, today they wore almost the same outfit, but to them?

I wish people would believe Jesus words and not their emotional opinions!!!!

Mark chapter 10, you should read it……

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 10:35 am**

Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:32 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:28 am Thank you very much for reminding me of that. By chance can you find the post where he said he is sinless? No worries if it's too hard to find. Just checking in case. Thanks again.
He often highlights and stresses how exceptional and rare he is. It’s an attitude I’ve never seen in scriptural prophets or Joseph Smith
So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?

At least Rob can read!

I don’t know who this Rob guy is but reviewing your comments I can see he is literate.

His followers should not quote him, they should learn from him and then read the Bible for themselves!!!

I can read too, divorce is adultery!

If a husband is mentally abused and has a stay at home wife that yells at him if he ask a simple question, like why can I barely walk through my house. He should not divorce her, that would be adultery.

I know a member in that exact situation, he knows that I would not put up with it and if I was married to her, she would divorce me. Then again I can say honestly that I would never marry her or someone like her.

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 10:56 am**

Abuse, do we have an example of that in the scriptures?

Yes we do, Sarai abused Hagar because she was jealous that Hagar was able to conceive a child for her husband. Hagar ran away because of the abuse. The lord sent an angel down to tell Hagar to go back and deal with it.

Abraham was 86 years old when Hagar got pregnant, he was 99 years old when he made the everlasting covenant, he was very old when he had Isaac and finally had to send Hagar away into the desert with Ishmael who had to be at least 13 years of age.

Are we better the Hagar today?

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 11:07 am**

BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:40 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:32 am

He often highlights and stresses how exceptional and rare he is. It’s an attitude I’ve never seen in scriptural prophets or Joseph Smith
So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?
How many LDS can’t stop reading institutional corporate watered down dogma? How many Christians can’t get enough Christianity ? How come Muslims can’t get enough of commentary based on their doctrine?

Rob admits only maybe 100 people follow him. Denver has a bigger following. You really want to play a numbers game?

There are many people from different faiths and ideologies who have commentators that they quote and look to for guidance. If you’re an ardent Rob supporter, someone who described the LDS church as being nothing of any more value to God than a menstrual rag, you probably think the hundreds of thousands of LDS who quote general authorities and find inspiration from them are wrong in what they worship. But you’re telling me that if a few dozen people (compared to hundreds of thousands of LDS who quote LDS leaders) quote Rob, that is a sign that he is what he claims he is.

Sorry, I didn't communicate very well. Rob makes me nauseous. I was wondering your opinion on how in the world such a person as he is ("sinless" as he says) draws people to him at all and why any people listen to his arrogant a**. You explained it really well. Thanks for your thoughts.

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 11:10 am**

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 10:35 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:32 am

He often highlights and stresses how exceptional and rare he is. It’s an attitude I’ve never seen in scriptural prophets or Joseph Smith
So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?
At least Rob can read!

I don’t know who this Rob guy is but reviewing your comments I can see he is literate.

His followers should not quote him, they should learn from him and then read the Bible for themselves!!!

I can read too, divorce is adultery!

If a husband is mentally abused and has a stay at home wife that yells at him if he ask a simple question, like why can I barely walk through my house. He should not divorce her, that would be adultery.

I know a member in that exact situation, he knows that I would not put up with it and if I was married to her, she would divorce me. Then again I can say honestly that I would never marry her or someone like her.

I can see your point. Having personally worked helping social workers which help abused women (and occasionally men) - I have to respectfully disagree. Some women I have helped have escaped with nothing but their kids and the clothes on their backs. How about Michael Haight from Cedar City who recently killed his wife, Tausha Haight, their five children, his mother-in-law, before taking his own life. Once you work with women who have been abused to degrees that one weep, it changes things.

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 12:08 pm**

Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?

Good questions!

I don’t see anything wrong with looking for truth wherever it’s found, but we definitely need to be selective & not blindly accept all someone says because nobody’s perfect. Gurus, profits, cult-leaders are obsessively attractive to people who are more comfortable trusting in concrete people than a more abstract God.

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 12:14 pm**

BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:40 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:32 am

He often highlights and stresses how exceptional and rare he is. It’s an attitude I’ve never seen in scriptural prophets or Joseph Smith
So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?
How many LDS can’t stop reading institutional corporate watered down dogma? How many Christians can’t get enough Christianity ? How come Muslims can’t get enough of commentary based on their doctrine?

Rob admits only maybe 100 people follow him. Denver has a bigger following. You really want to play a numbers game?

There are many people from different faiths and ideologies who have commentators that they quote and look to for guidance. If you’re an ardent Rob supporter, someone who described the LDS church as being nothing of any more value to God than a menstrual rag, you probably think the hundreds of thousands of LDS who quote general authorities and find inspiration from them are wrong in what they worship. But you’re telling me that if a few dozen people (compared to hundreds of thousands of LDS who quote LDS leaders) quote Rob, that is a sign that he is what he claims he is.

Why we are asking questions, we could also ask:

Why are so many Christians Democrats?
Why can't people get enough of Aleister Crowley? (If you don't know who he is, then you're better off for it).
Why do so many people like Biden?

I don't know, but they do. I think a lot of people like to let other people do their thinking for them, and they shut off their brains. How many people have you talked to that seem to parrot CNN word for word?

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 1:25 pm**

Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 11:10 am
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 10:35 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am

So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?
At least Rob can read!

I don’t know who this Rob guy is but reviewing your comments I can see he is literate.

His followers should not quote him, they should learn from him and then read the Bible for themselves!!!

I can read too, divorce is adultery!

If a husband is mentally abused and has a stay at home wife that yells at him if he ask a simple question, like why can I barely walk through my house. He should not divorce her, that would be adultery.

I know a member in that exact situation, he knows that I would not put up with it and if I was married to her, she would divorce me. Then again I can say honestly that I would never marry her or someone like her.
I can see your point. Having personally worked helping social workers which help abused women (and occasionally men) - I have to respectfully disagree. Some women I have helped have escaped with nothing but their kids and the clothes on their backs. How about Michael Haight from Cedar City who recently killed his wife, Tausha Haight, their five children, his mother-in-law, before taking his own life. Once you work with women who have been abused to degrees that one weep, it changes things.

It’s better to pluck out your eye then go to hell with it.

The question is, is it adultery? Yes.

Why did Lot offer up his daughters over the angels? The Angels would have slaughtered the residents of Sodom. Genesis 19

Why did the old Benjaminite offer up the Levite concubine and his own daughter instead of the Levite? Judges 19

Both in chapter 19, interesting coincidence.

If you are right shouldn’t these men who offered up women to the mob be chastised by the lord?

We have rules and laws, the reason we have such wicked sin is because we have allowed it, we have festered it by abandoning the rules and laws given to us.

Why didn’t the lord tell Mrs Haight not to be Mrs Haight in the first place?

Just like the Jews in ww2, no one listens to the lord.

Posted: **April 25th, 2023, 2:02 pm**

Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 11:07 am Sorry, I didn't communicate very well. Rob makes me nauseous. I was wondering your opinion on how in the world such a person as he is ("sinless" as he says) draws people to him at all and why any people listen to his arrogant a**. You explained it really well. Thanks for your thoughts.

I think certain people or certain ways of being have a pull. I was until recently a person who would check his blog and YouTube channel daily for new content.
I agree with a lot of what he says and I would frankly love to be "perfect" like he claims to be.
However, his definition of sinless is basically whatever he feels like at the time, because he defines that to be what Christ would do.

I guess some listen to him because he holds himself as better than others and a lot of people really want to be better and achieve more.
There is a lot we can learn from him honestly.

However frankly speaking if heaven is filled with Rob Smith's then I really want to investigate hell before committing.
He is condescending, obnoxious and frankly insulting to anyone that disagrees even in the slightest.
I have pointed out from numerous scriptures how he is wrong about things and he either ignored me, said God told him he doesn't need to respond, or was very caustic in his responses.

Posted: **April 26th, 2023, 12:21 am**

Thinker wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 12:08 pm
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?
Good questions!

I don’t see anything wrong with looking for truth wherever it’s found, but we definitely need to be selective & not blindly accept all someone says because nobody’s perfect. Gurus, profits, cult-leaders are obsessively attractive to people who are more comfortable trusting in concrete people than a more abstract God.

Due to my personal experiences, gurus, profits, leaders of human orgs and churches, are not all that trustworthy and certainly a lot weaker than the Godhead.

People in the Q movement circa 2017 often said "trust the plan" as if some military occupied by 4th Reich CIA Nazis was going to save us all. I never quite completely bought into that but if that is what people wanted, I helped manifest it for them to a point. I would amend that to "trust in god" which is perhaps the divine plan. Have humans fail so often that people figure out that only god can be trusted, although who or what god then becomes another tricky question as the ufo stuff comes out.

MAGA is Make America God's Again to me.

Posted: **April 26th, 2023, 12:27 am**

Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 11:10 am
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 10:35 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 9:36 am

So here is a question for you...then why do so many people still love to read his stuff? I have many friends who can't get enough of his writings and it stuns me every time. They quote from him and look to him daily for more posts. Why is that? How are other people not grossed out by his pride and arrogance?
At least Rob can read!

I don’t know who this Rob guy is but reviewing your comments I can see he is literate.

His followers should not quote him, they should learn from him and then read the Bible for themselves!!!

I can read too, divorce is adultery!

If a husband is mentally abused and has a stay at home wife that yells at him if he ask a simple question, like why can I barely walk through my house. He should not divorce her, that would be adultery.

I know a member in that exact situation, he knows that I would not put up with it and if I was married to her, she would divorce me. Then again I can say honestly that I would never marry her or someone like her.
I can see your point. Having personally worked helping social workers which help abused women (and occasionally men) - I have to respectfully disagree. Some women I have helped have escaped with nothing but their kids and the clothes on their backs. How about Michael Haight from Cedar City who recently killed his wife, Tausha Haight, their five children, his mother-in-law, before taking his own life. Once you work with women who have been abused to degrees that one weep, it changes things.

You are demonstrating compassion or a christ like love of other people, which is seated also in a love of self. One cannot love others when one hates oneself.

Others seem to operate based upon fear of the scriptures or obedience to authority, and if authority tells them x is good or evil, they go with that version. I think we have all seen the errors of "obeying orders" 2020 post.

If they return with the argument "but I am obeying god's orders".... well, a lot of humans seem to think their orders come from god or a higher power. The question is how we can test that as true or not.

Posted: **April 26th, 2023, 12:38 am**

Ymarsakar wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:27 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 11:10 am
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 10:35 am

At least Rob can read!

I don’t know who this Rob guy is but reviewing your comments I can see he is literate.

His followers should not quote him, they should learn from him and then read the Bible for themselves!!!

I can read too, divorce is adultery!

If a husband is mentally abused and has a stay at home wife that yells at him if he ask a simple question, like why can I barely walk through my house. He should not divorce her, that would be adultery.

I know a member in that exact situation, he knows that I would not put up with it and if I was married to her, she would divorce me. Then again I can say honestly that I would never marry her or someone like her.
I can see your point. Having personally worked helping social workers which help abused women (and occasionally men) - I have to respectfully disagree. Some women I have helped have escaped with nothing but their kids and the clothes on their backs. How about Michael Haight from Cedar City who recently killed his wife, Tausha Haight, their five children, his mother-in-law, before taking his own life. Once you work with women who have been abused to degrees that one weep, it changes things.
You are demonstrating compassion or a christ like love of other people, which is seated also in a love of self. One cannot love others when one hates oneself.

Others seem to operate based upon fear of the scriptures or obedience to authority, and if authority tells them x is good or evil, they go with that version. I think we have all seen the errors of "obeying orders" 2020 post.

If they return with the argument "but I am obeying god's orders".... well, a lot of humans seem to think their orders come from god or a higher power. The question is how we can test that as true or not.

What’s wrong with adultery?

King David committed adultery, everyone wants to be the servant like David.

Like I said, at least Rob sounds literate, you don’t….

Posted: **April 26th, 2023, 12:43 am**

Thou shall not steal….

What happened to the thieves who died on the cross with our lord and savior?

If you can’t admit to a sin you can’t be forgiven of it….

Divorce the abuser (male or female) Go and sin no more…

Posted: **April 26th, 2023, 12:47 am**

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:38 am
Ymarsakar wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:27 am
Grassland wrote: ↑April 25th, 2023, 11:10 am

I can see your point. Having personally worked helping social workers which help abused women (and occasionally men) - I have to respectfully disagree. Some women I have helped have escaped with nothing but their kids and the clothes on their backs. How about Michael Haight from Cedar City who recently killed his wife, Tausha Haight, their five children, his mother-in-law, before taking his own life. Once you work with women who have been abused to degrees that one weep, it changes things.
You are demonstrating compassion or a christ like love of other people, which is seated also in a love of self. One cannot love others when one hates oneself.

Others seem to operate based upon fear of the scriptures or obedience to authority, and if authority tells them x is good or evil, they go with that version. I think we have all seen the errors of "obeying orders" 2020 post.

If they return with the argument "but I am obeying god's orders".... well, a lot of humans seem to think their orders come from god or a higher power. The question is how we can test that as true or not.
What’s wrong with adultery?

King David committed adultery, everyone wants to be the servant like David.

Like I said, at least Rob sounds literate, you don’t….

Technically, David committed murder or manslaughter, not just adultery. I don't need to sound literate to mortal humans, since I have something called a god backing me.

You should talk more to gods and less to Robs.

Posted: **April 26th, 2023, 1:11 am**

Ymarsakar wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:47 am
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:38 am
Ymarsakar wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:27 am

You are demonstrating compassion or a christ like love of other people, which is seated also in a love of self. One cannot love others when one hates oneself.

Others seem to operate based upon fear of the scriptures or obedience to authority, and if authority tells them x is good or evil, they go with that version. I think we have all seen the errors of "obeying orders" 2020 post.

If they return with the argument "but I am obeying god's orders".... well, a lot of humans seem to think their orders come from god or a higher power. The question is how we can test that as true or not.
What’s wrong with adultery?

King David committed adultery, everyone wants to be the servant like David.

Like I said, at least Rob sounds literate, you don’t….
Technically, David committed murder or manslaughter, not just adultery. I don't need to sound literate to mortal humans, since I have something called a god backing me.

You should talk more to gods and less to Robs.

I don’t talk to robs! I said I don’t know who Rob is….

Tell me about your fake god? Does he say “no evil shall come upon you?

Jeremiah 23
16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Posted: **April 26th, 2023, 1:14 am**

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 1:11 am
Ymarsakar wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:47 am
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:38 am

What’s wrong with adultery?

King David committed adultery, everyone wants to be the servant like David.

Like I said, at least Rob sounds literate, you don’t….
Technically, David committed murder or manslaughter, not just adultery. I don't need to sound literate to mortal humans, since I have something called a god backing me.

You should talk more to gods and less to Robs.
I don’t talk to robs! I said I don’t know who Rob is….

Tell me about your fake god? Does he say “no evil shall come upon you?

Jeremiah 23
16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

At least rob knows who rob is.

Posted: **April 26th, 2023, 1:31 am**

Ymarsakar wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 1:14 am
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 1:11 am
Ymarsakar wrote: ↑April 26th, 2023, 12:47 am

Technically, David committed murder or manslaughter, not just adultery. I don't need to sound literate to mortal humans, since I have something called a god backing me.

You should talk more to gods and less to Robs.
I don’t talk to robs! I said I don’t know who Rob is….

Tell me about your fake god? Does he say “no evil shall come upon you?

Jeremiah 23
16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
At least rob knows who rob is.

I’m happy to be like my Lord, not a respecter of men….

LDS Freedom Forum

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