LDS Freedom Forum

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 3:22 pm

Atrasado wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:49 am Plus, aren't we perfected in weakness? Didn't Paul (who was a true apostle of Jesus Christ) pray to be relieved of his thorn in the flesh three times and the Lord told him no, because he needed that weakness to become perfected?

How many times have many overweight people prayed for help to overcome that weakness and made huge changes and improved, only to have it blow up on them through their own bodies sabotaging them in a hundred different ways? That doesn't seem just.

That is an excellent point. Paul may have been "sinless" in a sense that he was always seeking the best way.
However, he certainly had a weakness that he openly admitted.

If you read the passage of scripture (and the context surround it), Paul's "thorn" was him being beat in every city he went to and being thrown in chains (God's word is final, and God told Him it would happen it would be how he suffered for the namesake of Christ, Paul asked for that thorn to be removed, and God said His grace was sufficient). It's why Paul talks about him being content in whatever situation He has been in, and now he glories in it so he isn't lifted up in pride and the previous verses describe many sufferings he has endured.

My two cents. Holding the belief that a person you deem as"fat" cannot enter heaven will be the very prejudice that will slow your progression toward God after this life.

Niyr wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 7:47 pm Bad eating habits at 15 can certainly get you fat before age 50. It's the bad habit that is the problem. The fat is the consequence.

I don't know about you, but I could certainly do certain things at fifteen I could never get away with now. I had a very high metabolism and good muscle mass, and a good exercise regime.

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 3:26 pm Joseph was like a rock star and in my opinion very arrogant in a number of ways.

Fat Elvis?

Niemand wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 9:56 pm

Niyr wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 7:47 pm Bad eating habits at 15 can certainly get you fat before age 50. It's the bad habit that is the problem. The fat is the consequence.

I don't know about you, but I could certainly do certain things at fifteen I could never get away with now. I had a very high metabolism and good muscle mass, and a good exercise regime.

That has nothing to do with poor habits (eating and/or activity levels), whether they start as a toddler, at 15, or as an adult.

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 5:05 pm I gained weight because I believed i was supposed to eat mostly plants (including lots of wheat, rice, oats and beans) and very little to no meat. And when it made me sick i doubled down, again and again. Trying to be more perfect so I could be healthy.

Then I learned that not just refined sugar, but all carbs have a huge effect on insulin and storing fat. So I finally tried eating meat and lots of it. I lost 20 lb in 2 months and counting

This has been my experience too. I have found that concentrating on meat and fish lowered my weight. It was things like sugar and starchy foods (including potatoes) that puts it on.

I think this is the error of calorie counting. Not all calories are equal. Some will stick to you more than others.

The Atkins Diet seems to have been on to something. Meat seems to sustain me, but not make me put on much weight if it's not heavily processed. The downside is that I think this diet is hard on the bowel (literally!).

I have also found that contrary to advice, and some other people's experience, that drinking milk is actually good for my gut. I had a big problem a few years ago, when i caught a stomach bug in Ireland (of all places) and kefir seemed to be the way to get it right again. Other people swear that dairy does the opposite to them, but very curious that both meat and dairy are two of the things that the "NWO" seems so keen to get people off.

So while I stick to the Word of Wisdom in many respects, I have not found the advice on food so helpful.

Niyr wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:07 pmThat has nothing to do with poor habits (eating and/or activity levels), whether they start as a toddler, at 15, or as an adult.

I'm nearer fifty than fifteen myself nowadays, but this is not my experience. I have very different habits compared to back then, but I could get away with a whole host of things back then I never could now. I was eating far worse, and drinking alcohol, but at the same time a lot more active.

It's safe to say many of my eating and drinkng habits back then were very different from nowadays... much worse in fact. I would never be able to do some of those things nowadays, in fact I eat far less and occasionally fast, but have little to show for it. I played certain sports back then like basketball and rugby that i never could get away with nowadays, due to the contact element alone.

The one legacy i do think is a problem from back then is my teeth. I do wish I had maintained a lower sugar intake.

John Tavner wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 8:14 pm From my understanding Rob Smith has a very works based salvation approach. His belief is that repentance saves rather than faith and repentance for him is living a perfect life (which he claims he is the only person he knows of that lives perfect).

That is a fundamental misunderstanding, of the gospel. Faith is what saves, our faith leads us to repentance. Repentance is a change of mind or perspective and turning towards God. What is faith in Christ, it is believing that through Him we are righteous, holy, blameless and above reproach, not because of our works, or "hours" we spent repenting but because Jesus came and gave His life so that we might receive the Holy Spirit and be restored into relationship with the Father. THe Spirit is then in us and with us, guiding us and telling us what to do, but not for the purpose of just "doing" things, but for the purpose of us becoming like Christ in the flesh- but we can only become if we believe, otherwise we will strive and everytime we fail see ourselves as a failure (despite what Christ has said and called us to be) So we will define ourselves as failures denying hte grace and mercy of our Lord (governor).

Now that said, does that mean Rob didn't see Jesus, nope, but seeing doesn't mean you know Him. Jesus gently chastised his own apostles for not knwoing Him, when He had been with them for 3 years. Seeing is not knowing, neither is doing knowing. Also, iI really don't care when people say they've seen Jesus, just someone else usually using their visionary experience as a way to garner followers... especially if they act like the devil.

That is a good point. It is certainly a works based approach since you do everything Christ would and then you are "perfect".
I think faith is knowing that if you follow Christ then he is your shepherd and has made a place for you in heaven.
I don't think that justifies laziness, but freedom. I am not perfect, but I am willing to do what Christ asks me.
I think this is the yoke being easy.

abijah wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 5:08 pm Edit: just like JST, except JST is x100 more damaging.

Are you saying the JST (Inspired Version) is an idol and damaging? If this is the case then I would be very willing to understand why.

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:29 pm

abijah wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 5:08 pm Edit: just like JST, except JST is x100 more damaging.

Are you saying the JST (Inspired Version) is an idol and damaging? If this is the case then I would be very willing to understand why.

My opinion, not Abijah's, but,
* The JST appears to be uneven, i.e. some parts of the Bible like Matthew seem to be thoroughly covered whereas others are barely touched.
* There is controversy about the legacy text(s) we have, and whether others have tampered with them.

Niemand wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:36 pm My opinion, not Abijah's, but,
* The JST appears to be uneven, i.e. some parts of the Bible like Matthew seem to be thoroughly covered whereas others are barely touched.
* There is controversy about the legacy text(s) we have, and whether others have tampered with them.

It is certainly not complete.

Niemand wrote:Meat seems to sustain me, but not make me put on much weight if it's not heavily processed.

It's the saturated fat, which we're told not to eat too much of. Also, meat has an amino acid profile that seems to be optimal for humans.

Has anyone tried to figure out what's wrong with a standard, balanced diet? How is it that obesity has risen steadily over five decades without caloric intake rising at close to the same rate. What is it in the diet that's rising along with obesity. Well, it seems to be the increased consumption of PUFAs, now also found in bread.

Niemand wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:36 pm

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:29 pm

abijah wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 5:08 pm Edit: just like JST, except JST is x100 more damaging.

Are you saying the JST (Inspired Version) is an idol and damaging? If this is the case then I would be very willing to understand why.

My opinion, not Abijah's, but,
* The JST appears to be uneven, i.e. some parts of the Bible like Matthew seem to be thoroughly covered whereas others are barely touched.
* There is controversy about the legacy text(s) we have, and whether others have tampered with them.

The JST begins with the book of Moses. That was a straight revelation. Then the revelatory aspect of the JST diminishes, until it is mostly just the result of Joseph Smith addressing perceived problems in the text, without linguistic expertise.

Jashon wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 5:52 am Has anyone tried to figure out what's wrong with a standard, balanced diet? How is it that obesity has risen steadily over five decades without caloric intake rising at close to the same rate. What is it in the diet that's rising along with obesity. Well, it seems to be the increased consumption of PUFAs, now also found in bread.

A lifestyle based on non-manual labour, and watching TV and computer screens. This went to the extreme during lockdown when many people were practically put under house arrest.

creator wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 11:18 am

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 8:06 am Recently the online commentator, Rob Smith, made the comment that fat people are gluttonous and therefore sinful and therefore can't go to heaven. He has made this in books, articles, and videos now.
I disagreed with him and it kind of spiraled out of control.

He was certainly saying that in heaven we must be perfect in every way. However, he has reiterated this concept multiple times and sees any extra weight, in life, as a deficiency worthy of spiritual death..

I'm not sure what people see in this guy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but to each their own. I think for those seeking truth, we find a variety of teachers and mentors along the path that are necessary for our current state of development. But there will also be distractions put on our path along the way.

Agreed. He exudes the kind of pride we've been warned to eschew.

Niemand wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 7:00 am

Jashon wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 5:52 am Has anyone tried to figure out what's wrong with a standard, balanced diet? How is it that obesity has risen steadily over five decades without caloric intake rising at close to the same rate. What is it in the diet that's rising along with obesity. Well, it seems to be the increased consumption of PUFAs, now also found in bread.

A lifestyle based on non-manual labour, and watching TV and computer screens. This went to the extreme during lockdown when many people were practically put under house arrest.

So we have:

• a rise in sedentariness (ad. L. sedentarius: sitting)

• a slight rise in sugar/carbohydrate consumption

• a strong rise in increasingly sweet artificial sweeteners (triggering an insulin response, regardless)

• a very strong rise in PUFA consumption (via "heart-healthy" "vegetable" oil, also found increasingly in supposedly healthier mono-gastric meat (pork/chicken), heavily fed with PUFAs)

My understanding is that the exact temperment/spirit/thoughts/desires/habits/lusts/evil/good, etc etc, that you have when you die, that you have conditioned yourself to, or been influenced by, is just exactly what you continue with in the next life. There is no magic change in your thoughts. If we live a life of anger, we will die angry and wake up angry. If we live a life of gluttony, we will wake up and continue to lust after food. If we are alcoholic we will have the same desire for it in the next life. If we murdered in this life, we will still be of the same spirit in the next.
In other words, we will just continue on serving the same master we served in this life. But, what I have read and heard, is that without your carnal body, or in the interim between death and the resurrection that your bad habits, the lusts for them are intensified almost beyond control, or even beyond control to the point of hanging around here and trying to satisfy them.
Now is the time to repent of all that we possibly can. Now is the time to take control of our carnal selfish selves and humble ourselves to the very dust, and appeal for God's help to overcome our lusts and "gluttony" our anger, our selfishness, our pride, etc.
Again, how we go to the grave, we will wake up finding we are exactly the same in the spirit, be we good or evil.
And our souls will be contended for by two different masters. If we have some nasty debts to pay, like say murder, or various other crimes, and especially if we have not repented of, then justices demands must be met.

But I think we will all be "weighed" in the balance, and the "fat" people that were truly charitable, will fit right in spiritual paradise, whereas that skinny, or perfectly fit person that is selfish as hell will go to another department.

Jashon wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 7:21 am

Niemand wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 7:00 am

Jashon wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 5:52 am Has anyone tried to figure out what's wrong with a standard, balanced diet? How is it that obesity has risen steadily over five decades without caloric intake rising at close to the same rate. What is it in the diet that's rising along with obesity. Well, it seems to be the increased consumption of PUFAs, now also found in bread.

A lifestyle based on non-manual labour, and watching TV and computer screens. This went to the extreme during lockdown when many people were practically put under house arrest.

So we have:

• a rise in sedentariness (ad. L. sedentarius: sitting)

• a slight rise in sugar/carbohydrate consumption

• a strong rise in increasingly sweet artificial sweeteners (triggering an insulin response, regardless)

• a very strong rise in PUFA consumption (via "heart-healthy" "vegetable" oil, also found increasingly in supposedly healthier mono-gastric meat (pork/chicken), heavily fed with PUFAs)

I would look at drinks too. Although beer does contain a number of calories, I think when previous generations drank tea, coffee or water, the current (currant?) one has a drink it's usually a sugary liquid.

Niemand wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 7:54 am I would look at drinks too. Although beer does contain a number of calories, I think when previous generations drank tea, coffee or water, the current (currant?) one has a drink it's usually a sugary liquid.

I think it has a lot to do with things are just not as nutritionally dense as they used to be.
Therefore we may be getting the same calories, but not the same nutrients.
I also think the overall environment is more toxic than it used to be. Micro plastics everywhere, artificial oils, sweeteners, "natural flavors".
There is a lot different without our food as compared to 100 years ago.

1 Samuel 16:7

......For the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Godislove wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 4:11 pm 1 Samuel 16:7

......For the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

What if our hearts are fat?

Telavian wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 4:22 pm

Godislove wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 4:11 pm 1 Samuel 16:7

......For the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

What if our hearts are fat?

Then I guess Blue Whales won't be found in heaven either.

Deuteronomy 32:15

But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

Niemand wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:11 pm

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 5:05 pm I gained weight because I believed i was supposed to eat mostly plants (including lots of wheat, rice, oats and beans) and very little to no meat. And when it made me sick i doubled down, again and again. Trying to be more perfect so I could be healthy.

Then I learned that not just refined sugar, but all carbs have a huge effect on insulin and storing fat. So I finally tried eating meat and lots of it. I lost 20 lb in 2 months and counting

This has been my experience too. I have found that concentrating on meat and fish lowered my weight. It was things like sugar and starchy foods (including potatoes) that puts it on.

I think this is the error of calorie counting. Not all calories are equal. Some will stick to you more than others.

The Atkins Diet seems to have been on to something. Meat seems to sustain me, but not make me put on much weight if it's not heavily processed. The downside is that I think this diet is hard on the bowel (literally!).

I have also found that contrary to advice, and some other people's experience, that drinking milk is actually good for my gut. I had a big problem a few years ago, when i caught a stomach bug in Ireland (of all places) and kefir seemed to be the way to get it right again. Other people swear that dairy does the opposite to them, but very curious that both meat and dairy are two of the things that the "NWO" seems so keen to get people off.

So while I stick to the Word of Wisdom in many respects, I have not found the advice on food so helpful.

The microbiome is HUGE! Scientists are still learning about it. But you can take poop from a skinny person, give it to a fat person in the form of a poop transplant and the fat person will become skinny!

Some people’s microbiomes do not handle milk and dairy products well. So while some people do well with them, others don’t. Unless maybe they can change their micro biome. Maybe that’s how the kefir helped you. It has the probiotics in it. And it worked for you because you handle dairy okay.

Jashon wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 7:21 am

Niemand wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 7:00 am

Jashon wrote: ↑April 16th, 2023, 5:52 am Has anyone tried to figure out what's wrong with a standard, balanced diet? How is it that obesity has risen steadily over five decades without caloric intake rising at close to the same rate. What is it in the diet that's rising along with obesity. Well, it seems to be the increased consumption of PUFAs, now also found in bread.

A lifestyle based on non-manual labour, and watching TV and computer screens. This went to the extreme during lockdown when many people were practically put under house arrest.

So we have:

• a rise in sedentariness (ad. L. sedentarius: sitting)

• a slight rise in sugar/carbohydrate consumption

• a strong rise in increasingly sweet artificial sweeteners (triggering an insulin response, regardless)

• a very strong rise in PUFA consumption (via "heart-healthy" "vegetable" oil, also found increasingly in supposedly healthier mono-gastric meat (pork/chicken), heavily fed with PUFAs)

We could do an entire thread on “why are people fatter now than in the 70s” if someone wants to start one.

Eating donuts feels like going to heaven…