LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 10:40 am**

FrankOne wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:22 am
Godislove wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:07 am
Lexew1899 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 9:56 am I guess it would depend how fat we are talking.
Like whether or not they will fit through the Heavenly gates?
If the gates aren't wide enough for everyone, that's discrimination. I wonder what color the gate posts are? This could really turn out to be an embarrassment all around.

Pretty sure my hubby might be able to get me in.

: pooh-stuck-winnie-the-pooh.gif (784.81 KiB) Viewed 310 times

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 10:43 am**

exactly what does our temporary, mortal, telestial, physical body have to do with any resurrected body, especially a celestial one?

BTW I love KFD, but I think something is wrong with the wording in the children on thrones thing. BTW, It must be figurative. Also, I don't think there are literal thrones in celestial, why would you need such. Being god would be obvious enough w/o the concept of a throne or literal scepter

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 10:49 am**

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 9:11 am
Godislove wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 9:02 am Some people are 'fat' due to thyroid problems, diabetes, genetic predisposition, and many other underlying issues etc.
So do we start saying that some diabetics won't go to heaven because they are 'fat"?
It's just silly to even claim such a thing. IMO
I had a sister with ovarian cancer. After the surgery she took pills to deal with the hormone imbalance and ballooned up quickly.
Our entire bodies are incredibly flawed to begin with. God will make things right.
I just think that assuming everything has to be right in this life is an impossibly high bar for many people.

Plus, aren't we perfected in weakness? Didn't Paul (who was a true apostle of Jesus Christ) pray to be relieved of his thorn in the flesh three times and the Lord told him no, because he needed that weakness to become perfected?

How many times have many overweight people prayed for help to overcome that weakness and made huge changes and improved, only to have it blow up on them through their own bodies sabotaging them in a hundred different ways? That doesn't seem just.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 11:04 am**

Straight is the gate and narrow is the way. . .

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 11:18 am**

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 8:06 am Recently the online commentator, Rob Smith, made the comment that fat people are gluttonous and therefore sinful and therefore can't go to heaven. He has made this in books, articles, and videos now.
I disagreed with him and it kind of spiraled out of control.

He was certainly saying that in heaven we must be perfect in every way. However, he has reiterated this concept multiple times and sees any extra weight, in life, as a deficiency worthy of spiritual death..

I'm not sure what people see in this guy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but to each their own. I think for those seeking truth, we find a variety of teachers and mentors along the path that are necessary for our current state of development. But there will also be distractions put on our path along the way.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 11:34 am**

Godislove wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:07 am
Lexew1899 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 9:56 am I guess it would depend how fat we are talking.
Like whether or not they will fit through the Heavenly gates?

Eye of the needle, ya know

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 11:53 am**

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 8:06 am Recently the online commentator, Rob Smith, made the comment that fat people are gluttonous and therefore sinful and therefore can't go to heaven. He has made this in books, articles, and videos now.
I disagreed with him and it kind of spiraled out of control.

He was certainly saying that in heaven we must be perfect in every way. However, he has reiterated this concept multiple times and sees any extra weight, in life, as a deficiency worthy of spiritual death. I think in a perfect world I agree. That one extra chip is wasteful however what about an imperfect world like ours?

For many years my wife and I have been involved in the organic food and permaculture movements. I have seen firsthand how totally messed up our entire food system is. The second you walk into a grocery store your food choices have already been made for you. The food we are consuming today, even the 'healthy' kind, has more calories and is less nutrient dense. Our animals are injected with hormones and antibiotics from birth so they can grow faster. The entire food system in almost every way is engineered for profit, not health.
We also have less need for physical movement because most of life today is sedentary.
We also have a medical system that would rather you take a pill, to fight the symptom, than fix the actual problem.
Some people also have genetic predispositions for certain conditions which doctors say accounts for about 70% of obesity.

When you combine these all together then yes I could see how anyone could be overweight even if they tried not to be. Other people don't try at all and they have super model type physique while eating nutritional trash.

For personal examples, my mother had 8 kids and it wreaked her body. She has always struggled with weight as much as I can remember.
I know another woman whose husband wrongfully went to jail for helping someone. She spent 3 years moving from campground to campground eating dollar store food. She was very unhealthy during that time. Would she have gone to hell?

I guess the basic question is what does it really mean to be perfect/complete and what is a sin vs just existing in a fallen world?

Fat people can’t get to heaven….ok Rob tell us another lie…..Like these:

“Your physical attractiveness is your most valuable asset in finding a husband. This value peaks from 16-18, fades slowly until 25, then starts fading quickly. Your pool of potential husbands shrinks significantly with every year past 18.”

"One false idea widely promoted is that girls should experience the same kind of education as boys."

"Did you know that women peak physically at
age 16? It is interesting that... modern society has made it taboo for a man to marry a 16 year old or so woman, suggesting it is inappropriate to find a 16 year old or so woman attractive"

"In an ideal situation, the potential husband is fulfilling the role of father, the potential wife is fulfilling the role of daughter"

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 1:49 pm**

Hahaha
Why am I not surprised? Rob Smith would say something like that. He is INSANE. I truly believe he needs a psychological evaluation.

There are people maintaining their obesity on 800 calories a day.

I’m not overweight, but I work my butt off and diet just to barely stay under the line that a doctor’s chart would say is overweight. I can barely stay under the line. I gain weight eating salads.

After hearing all the crazy weirdo stuff in the Lori Vallow murder trial, I’m honestly concerned for Rob or anyone “following” him. Maybe I’m just extra sensitive to it right now. But it’s scary to think about the weird ideas out there and the people who just buy into them.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 1:58 pm**

Yes, but to make it to a higher kingdom of glory will take some heavy lifting.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 1:59 pm**

A lot of us struggle with various things, some are more visible than others. Often very obese people are struggling with something, some kind of trauma, or there's a medical issue. Sure, some people are just lazy and gorge themselves but you can't always tell from looking at people. I gained about 40 lbs being stuck at my desk working my tail off to provide for my family but my metabolism had changed as I hit my 20s as well and I hadn't learned how to adapt yet. I fixed my diet and started moving more and dropped the weight.

Some people can get stuck like that without really knowing how to change things. Habits are hard to change, some people can do it better than others, but we also have food today that's supposed to be good but is full of poison or lacks nutrients. Also, if you weren't raised knowing how to eat properly that can be a struggle.

So "fat" can be just like anythings else, you can't really judge from the outside. Some families go to the lake on Sunday or on hikes and others look at them as apostates. This is why we shouldn't judge others based on the outer appearance.

It's far to easy to be very wrong about people.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 2:02 pm**

Perhaps Rob Smith could be reminded that, contrary to his depiction in church art, Joseph Smith had become quite portly prior to his murder.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 2:03 pm**

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 1:49 pm Hahaha
Why am I not surprised? Rob Smith would say something like that. He is INSANE. I truly believe he needs a psychological evaluation.

There are people maintaining their obesity on 800 calories a day.

I’m not overweight, but I work my butt off and diet just to barely stay under the line that a doctor’s chart would say is overweight. I can barely stay under the line. I gain weight eating salads.

The reason many people gain weight so easily is because they have a gene which gave their ancestors the ability to survive famines and food shortages. Polynesians have this issue.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 2:04 pm**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 2:02 pm Perhaps Rob Smith could be reminded that, contrary to his depiction in church art, Joseph Smith had become quite portly prior to his murder.

That's true. The carb heavy diet of many an LDS munch 'n' mingle hasn't helped any of us either.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 2:12 pm**

I know a family who had an infant die shortly before his first birthday. He had a hereditary disease, got two copies of a bad gene. He was in pain all the time. Doctors gave him steroids for pain relief. He was an obese infant.

Random people at the grocery store would tell the mom she was feeding him too much.

People don’t have a clue what others are going through.

Anyway, I know he went to Heaven because he died as an infant and was therefore completely innocent.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 2:29 pm**

Being fat isn't good (and might in actuality be more detrimental to our soul than our modern disincarnated culture perhaps would think), but saying this somehow precludes one from salvation seems a little wild.

I do know someone who thinks fat people won't be resurrected skinny though lol, and while idk how it all works, I do think theres a certain logic to that, the notion that to truly experience Christ, one must be willing to sacrifice whatever pet sins they keep, and out of that hollow place He will bring something better. "Keep back nothing. Nothing that you have not given away will ever be really yours. Nothing in you that has not died will ever be raised from the dead."

It's also interesting to consider how different vices relate to one another. One thing I heard recently is that people who struggle with chastity related issues should focus on their diet to help overcome that. Not saying that fat people don't keep the law of chastity or anything lol but I do think there's something to the idea how different types of sin interrelate and sort of provide momentum for each other, and how that can be implemented as a repentance strategy in turn.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 3:21 pm**

TheDuke wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:43 am exactly what does our temporary, mortal, telestial, physical body have to do with any resurrected body, especially a celestial one?

BTW I love KFD, but I think something is wrong with the wording in the children on thrones thing. BTW, It must be figurative. Also, I don't think there are literal thrones in celestial, why would you need such. Being god would be obvious enough w/o the concept of a throne or literal scepter

The KF discourse is kind of a mess because I think there are 3 main accounts and they all recorded different things.
The kids on a throne things was in only one of them.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 3:22 pm**

Atrasado wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 10:49 am Plus, aren't we perfected in weakness? Didn't Paul (who was a true apostle of Jesus Christ) pray to be relieved of his thorn in the flesh three times and the Lord told him no, because he needed that weakness to become perfected?

How many times have many overweight people prayed for help to overcome that weakness and made huge changes and improved, only to have it blow up on them through their own bodies sabotaging them in a hundred different ways? That doesn't seem just.

That is an excellent point. Paul may have been "sinless" in a sense that he was always seeking the best way.
However, he certainly had a weakness that he openly admitted.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 3:24 pm**

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 1:49 pm Hahaha
Why am I not surprised? Rob Smith would say something like that. He is INSANE. I truly believe he needs a psychological evaluation.

There are people maintaining their obesity on 800 calories a day.

I’m not overweight, but I work my butt off and diet just to barely stay under the line that a doctor’s chart would say is overweight. I can barely stay under the line. I gain weight eating salads.

After hearing all the crazy weirdo stuff in the Lori Vallow murder trial, I’m honestly concerned for Rob or anyone “following” him. Maybe I’m just extra sensitive to it right now. But it’s scary to think about the weird ideas out there and the people who just buy into them.

I like him but I can easily see him starting a compound with a bunch of young girls somewhere.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 3:26 pm**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 2:02 pm Perhaps Rob Smith could be reminded that, contrary to his depiction in church art, Joseph Smith had become quite portly prior to his murder.

I will have to research that. I didn't know it, but towards the end of Nauvoo Joseph was like a rock star and in my opinion very arrogant in a number of ways.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 3:30 pm**

abijah wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 2:29 pm Being fat isn't good (and might in actuality be more detrimental to our soul than our modern disincarnated culture perhaps would think), but saying this somehow precludes one from salvation seems a little wild.

I do know someone who thinks fat people won't be resurrected skinny though lol, and while idk how it all works, I do think theres a certain logic to that, the notion that to truly experience Christ, one must be willing to sacrifice whatever pet sins they keep, and out of that hollow place He will bring something better. "Keep back nothing. Nothing that you have not given away will ever be really yours. Nothing in you that has not died will ever be raised from the dead."

It's also interesting to consider how different vices relate to one another. One thing I heard recently is that people who struggle with chastity related issues should focus on their diet to help overcome that. Not saying that fat people don't keep the law of chastity or anything lol but I do think there's something to the idea how different types of sin interrelate and sort of provide momentum for each other, and how that can be implemented as a repentance strategy in turn.

I think that is interesting and I think there is a lot of truth to it. Our bodies are very complicated and one thing can relate to another.
This concept is in Chinese medicine which I think is so interesting.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 5:05 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 2:03 pm
Wolfwoman wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 1:49 pm Hahaha
Why am I not surprised? Rob Smith would say something like that. He is INSANE. I truly believe he needs a psychological evaluation.

There are people maintaining their obesity on 800 calories a day.

I’m not overweight, but I work my butt off and diet just to barely stay under the line that a doctor’s chart would say is overweight. I can barely stay under the line. I gain weight eating salads.
The reason many people gain weight so easily is because they have a gene which gave their ancestors the ability to survive famines and food shortages. Polynesians have this issue.

I gained weight because I believed i was supposed to eat mostly plants (including lots of wheat, rice, oats and beans) and very little to no meat. And when it made me sick i doubled down, again and again. Trying to be more perfect so I could be healthy.

Then I learned that not just refined sugar, but all carbs have a huge effect on insulin and storing fat. So I finally tried eating meat and lots of it. I lost 20 lb in 2 months and counting

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 5:08 pm**

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 3:21 pmThe KF discourse is kind of a mess

an idol.

Edit: just like JST, except JST is x100 more damaging.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 7:47 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 9:24 am
Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 9:09 am
Niemand wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 9:03 am Does this mean that people are more righteous at 15 than they are at 50?
At various times I have certainly felt more righteous than others. I think life in general is such a convoluted mess that most are lucky to even get out of it with any sanity.
Well you're more likely to be fat at fifty than fifteen... regardless of your righteousness.

Bad eating habits at 15 can certainly get you fat before age 50. It's the bad habit that is the problem. The fat is the consequence.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 8:14 pm**

Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 8:06 am Recently the online commentator, Rob Smith, made the comment that fat people are gluttonous and therefore sinful and therefore can't go to heaven. He has made this in books, articles, and videos now.
I disagreed with him and it kind of spiraled out of control.

He was certainly saying that in heaven we must be perfect in every way. However, he has reiterated this concept multiple times and sees any extra weight, in life, as a deficiency worthy of spiritual death. I think in a perfect world I agree. That one extra chip is wasteful however what about an imperfect world like ours?

For many years my wife and I have been involved in the organic food and permaculture movements. I have seen firsthand how totally messed up our entire food system is. The second you walk into a grocery store your food choices have already been made for you. The food we are consuming today, even the 'healthy' kind, has more calories and is less nutrient dense. Our animals are injected with hormones and antibiotics from birth so they can grow faster. The entire food system in almost every way is engineered for profit, not health.
We also have less need for physical movement because most of life today is sedentary.
We also have a medical system that would rather you take a pill, to fight the symptom, than fix the actual problem.
Some people also have genetic predispositions for certain conditions which doctors say accounts for about 70% of obesity.

When you combine these all together then yes I could see how anyone could be overweight even if they tried not to be. Other people don't try at all and they have super model type physique while eating nutritional trash.

For personal examples, my mother had 8 kids and it wreaked her body. She has always struggled with weight as much as I can remember.
I know another woman whose husband wrongfully went to jail for helping someone. She spent 3 years moving from campground to campground eating dollar store food. She was very unhealthy during that time. Would she have gone to hell?

I guess the basic question is what does it really mean to be perfect/complete and what is a sin vs just existing in a fallen world?

From my understanding Rob Smith has a very works based salvation approach. His belief is that repentance saves rather than faith and repentance for him is living a perfect life (which he claims he is the only person he knows of that lives perfect).

That is a fundamental misunderstanding, of the gospel. Faith is what saves, our faith leads us to repentance. Repentance is a change of mind or perspective and turning towards God. What is faith in Christ, it is believing that through Him we are righteous, holy, blameless and above reproach, not because of our works, or "hours" we spent repenting but because Jesus came and gave His life so that we might receive the Holy Spirit and be restored into relationship with the Father. THe Spirit is then in us and with us, guiding us and telling us what to do, but not for the purpose of just "doing" things, but for the purpose of us becoming like Christ in the flesh- but we can only become if we believe, otherwise we will strive and everytime we fail see ourselves as a failure (despite what Christ has said and called us to be) So we will define ourselves as failures denying hte grace and mercy of our Lord (governor).

Now that said, does that mean Rob didn't see Jesus, nope, but seeing doesn't mean you know Him. Jesus gently chastised his own apostles for not knwoing Him, when He had been with them for 3 years. Seeing is not knowing, neither is doing knowing. Also, iI really don't care when people say they've seen Jesus, just someone else usually using their visionary experience as a way to garner followers... especially if they act like the devil.

Posted: **April 15th, 2023, 8:15 pm**

abijah wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 5:08 pm
Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 3:21 pmThe KF discourse is kind of a mess
an idol.

Edit: just like JST, except JST is x100 more damaging.

1000%

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