Being There wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 10:06 am
Telavian wrote: ↑April 15th, 2023, 8:06 am
Recently the online commentator, Rob Smith, made the comment that fat people are gluttonous and therefore sinful and therefore can't go to heaven. He has made this in books, articles, and videos now.
I disagreed with him and it kind of spiraled out of control.
He was certainly saying that in heaven we must be perfect in every way. However, he has reiterated this concept multiple times and sees any extra weight, in life, as a deficiency worthy of spiritual death. I think in a perfect world I agree. That one extra chip is wasteful however what about an imperfect world like ours?
For many years my wife and I have been involved in the organic food and permaculture movements. I have seen firsthand how totally messed up our entire food system is. The second you walk into a grocery store your food choices have already been made for you. The food we are consuming today, even the 'healthy' kind, has more calories and is less nutrient dense. Our animals are injected with hormones and antibiotics from birth so they can grow faster. The entire food system in almost every way is engineered for profit, not health.
We also have less need for physical movement because most of life today is sedentary.
We also have a medical system that would rather you take a pill, to fight the symptom, than fix the actual problem.
Some people also have genetic predispositions for certain conditions which doctors say accounts for about 70% of obesity.
When you combine these all together then yes I could see how anyone could be overweight even if they tried not to be. Other people don't try at all and they have super model type physique while eating nutritional trash.
For personal examples, my mother had 8 kids and it wreaked her body. She has always struggled with weight as much as I can remember.
I know another woman whose husband wrongfully went to jail for helping someone. She spent 3 years moving from campground to campground eating dollar store food. She was very unhealthy during that time. Would she have gone to hell?
I guess the basic question is what does it really mean to be perfect/complete and what is a sin vs just existing in a fallen world?
Can "fat" people go to heaven?
lol.
I think I've heard everything.
it's the same type of nonsense - the same mentality that I heard from a friend - 40 years ago -
when I was a vegetarian - (him too) but he was counseling me -
and acting like so many Veg. do - like they're above everyone or better than everyone else
just because they believe everyone should be vegetarian
and if you are - you are more perfect and more spiritual.
What a bunch of clap.
18
And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same,
is not ordained of God;
19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth,
is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.
D&C 49
Can "fat" people go to heaven?
I guess I got a little bit fooled - by this saying "fat people".
Because - if it said - "Is gluttony a sin?
I think that is different.
anything you indulge in and put above God is a sin.
Is gluttony a sin?
https://www.gotquestions.org/gluttony-sin.html
Playwright George Bernard Shaw wrote, “There is no love sincerer than the love of food” (Man and Superman, Act I). That may be true in some people, in which case they might be guilty of gluttony, the habit of eating immoderately. But the love of food should never be allowed to become disproportionate to the love of other, more important things.
The Bible’s warnings against gluttony are mostly indirect, and there is no verse that says outright, “Gluttony is a sin.” However, when we consider what gluttony is and the biblical principles that apply, our conclusion has to be that gluttony is indeed a sin.
Gluttony is eating to excess. Aquinas defined gluttony as “an inordinate desire” for food and drink that goes beyond reasonableness and therefore departs from goodness (Summa Theologica, Secunda Secundæ Partis, Question 148). Gluttony can be seen as a form of greed—a selfish desire for something—which is definitely sin. Jesus warned us to guard ourselves against “all kinds of greed” (Luke 12:15). Gluttony can also be seen as a lack of self-control, and self-control is a quality believers are to pursue (2 Peter 1:5–6).
Gluttony is a sin because it gives too high a priority to physical desires. Paul took care not to be “disqualified” from the ministry, and part of that care was physical: “I discipline my body and keep it under control” (1 Corinthians 9:27, ESV). He determined that he would “not be mastered by anything” (1 Corinthians 6:12). Believers are not to “indulge the flesh” (Galatians 5:13). All of this seems to indicate that gluttony—eating to excess—is wrong. In contrast to Paul’s commitment to exercise control over his body, the enemies of the gospel give free rein to their appetites: “Their god is their stomach” (Philippians 3:19).
Proverbs 23:19–21 mentions gluttony directly. In giving wisdom to those who would avoid self-induced hardship, the wise man says,
“Listen, my son, and be wise,
and set your heart on the right path:
Do not join those who drink too much wine
or gorge themselves on meat,
for drunkards and gluttons become poor,
and drowsiness clothes them in rags.”
The path of those who indulge in too much wine and too much food is a ruinous one. Moderation in all things is much preferred over gluttony (see also Proverbs 28:7).
Gluttony is a sin because the Bible promotes self-control as one of the characteristics of the Spirit-led life. We are to curb physical appetites and not let them control us. There are many things about our bodies that we must control: our sexual behavior (1 Thessalonians 4:4), our tongues (James 3:1–12), our hands (Proverbs 16:17), our feet (Proverbs 16:18), and our eyes (Mark 9:47). It stands to reason that we must also control our stomachs. The ability to say “no” to anything in excess is a godly skill.
Jesus was accused of being “a glutton and a drunkard” (Luke 7:34), but it was a malicious false charge. The same evil-hearted people accused John the Baptist of being demon-possessed because he did not feast. Jesus attended feasts and so was labelled a “glutton.” The fault-finders were unwise. As Jesus said, “Wisdom is proved right by all her children” (Luke 7:35); that is, those who are truly wise will understand and appreciate both John and Jesus.
God “richly gives us all we need for our enjoyment” (1 Timothy 6:17, NLT), and that includes an incredible variety of foods that are delicious, nutritious, and pleasurable. We should thank God for the colors, aromas, textures, and tastes that we enjoy at our meals. And we should honor God by partaking of His gifts in appropriate quantities.
