LDS Freedom Forum

These things only have the amount of power we give them. Think about it realistically. If hardly any miracles or such things happen in the name of God then surely Satan can't do a whole lot more. IMO if God and Satan went away and mankind was left to their own devices not much would change.

Erastothenes wrote: ↑March 31st, 2023, 10:59 pm These things only have the amount of power we give them. Think about it realistically. If hardly any miracles or such things happen in the name of God then surely Satan can't do a whole lot more. IMO if God and Satan went away and mankind was left to their own devices not much would change.

I would additionally argue that Satanism loses power the more educated we become regarding its origins and historical manifestations.

I find the Church’s silence on this topic deeply troubling. We have enemies, and we should be talking about them. In my opinion, of course.

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑March 31st, 2023, 11:12 pm

Erastothenes wrote: ↑March 31st, 2023, 10:59 pm These things only have the amount of power we give them. Think about it realistically. If hardly any miracles or such things happen in the name of God then surely Satan can't do a whole lot more. IMO if God and Satan went away and mankind was left to their own devices not much would change.

I would additionally argue that Satanism loses power the more educated we become regarding its origins and historical manifestations.

I find the Church’s silence on this topic deeply troubling. We have enemies, and we should be talking about them. In my opinion, of course.

Yeah never lifting a warning voice is odd. It's like the watchmen are asleep or something. I suppose all is well in Zion.

It is interesting to note that (as I heard it) Luciferians see themselves as completely separate/different from Satanists, being more real and serious. I heard an ex-Luciferian say that from their view, the bottom line is that Jesus joined with Lucifer in a plan for us.

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑March 31st, 2023, 11:12 pm

Erastothenes wrote: ↑March 31st, 2023, 10:59 pm These things only have the amount of power we give them. Think about it realistically. If hardly any miracles or such things happen in the name of God then surely Satan can't do a whole lot more. IMO if God and Satan went away and mankind was left to their own devices not much would change.

I would additionally argue that Satanism loses power the more educated we become regarding its origins and historical manifestations.

I find the Church’s silence on this topic deeply troubling. We have enemies, and we should be talking about them. In my opinion, of course.

The silence is deafening ….

There is phenomenon called the banality of evil. Satanism is no different. Even though it tries to be this big magnificent thing, that ropes in the Jayne Mansfields of this world and gives you power, and you find many of its followers are neckbeards or bureaucrats or incredibly dull and physically repulsive people.

I remember once I spent time in the home of a bona fide satanist. I had to visit him for some trivial reason, I think I was picking up some electronic equipment for someone else, because I had a car and he didn't... the man in question was an acquaintance of mine, and when I walked into the living room of a somewhat squalid and small inner city flat/apartment, lo and behold there was an image of the goat of Mendes on the wall, inverted crosses and so on. I gathered quickly his interest was a bit beyond Heavy Metal BS... the flat had a severe damp problem, and there was paint peeling off the walls. Evidently riches and power had not materialised for this man. Rather than be cowed by the whole thing, I just carried on as normal, chatted about trivia and picked up the gear. Some people would have been completely freaked out by the whole thing. I said a quick blessing on the place as I went into a side room and cast out any evil that happened to linger there. Then I picked up the stuff, thanked him for storing it and drove off.

I was at college with another such individual. Although she presented herself as some wild alternative figure, she was actually just a nerd who happened to be mixed up in this stuff. She had a beer gut in her early twenties, no dress sense and flipped out once because we studied a Christmas Carol in our language class. (Maybe that was the demons.) I have spotted her once or twice over the years waddling along the road, with staring eyes, once I saw her from a bus window accompanied by a C-list science fiction author who lived locally and I vaguely recognised from his unkempt beard.

I wrote some of a novel some years ago, and i've never finished it, and one of the chapters involves satanists. Rather than make it all cool and mystical, and out in the wilds, I describe the location as being a similar place in some slum, with the constant noise of trucks going by. The character attends a ceremony. I don't go into detail, but the participants have done it so often that they're sleep walking through it and one or two of them start yawning. The chapter is more taken up with the awkward scene at the beginning where he's asked what kind of tea and biscuits he wants, and they try and make small talk, and then at the end, where they all sheepishly say goodbye and go out the door. Nothing about Satan appearing or lightning bolts, or telling him their plans to take over the world. It's just another night for them.

ransomme wrote: ↑April 1st, 2023, 2:39 am It is interesting to note that (as I heard it) Luciferians see themselves as completely separate/different from Satanists, being more real and serious. I heard an ex-Luciferian say that from their view, the bottom line is that Jesus joined with Lucifer in a plan for us.

I've gone into this elsewhere. Luciferianism seems to often use the figure of Prometheus as a kind of metaphor, sometimes encoded so as not to freak out the public. It seems to be the classier and cleverer end of things and has a more sophisticated ntellectual/philosophical basis than teenage satanism. It is probably more dangerous as a result.

Satanism seems to be more in line with épatter les bourgeois, i.e. upset the suburbanites, and teenagers trying to become individuals by annoying their parents. It's more the stereotype that non-devil worshippers think of. The Satanic Temple and Anton LaVey's lot are like this, but unlike most of them basically publicity seekers who claim to fight the supposed injustices of conservatism and Christianity. If they keep it up past adolescence, they tend to age fast. Maybe that's the punishment aspect.

As for the banal end of things... if devil worship does take place among the world's élites, have you considered what they look like? Who would want to see the average royal or politician or billionaire shagging someone in public? Some of these folk look like tortoises/turtles that have lost their shells e.g. Klaus Schwab or that Rothschild who just died.

Erastothenes wrote: ↑March 31st, 2023, 10:59 pm These things only have the amount of power we give them. Think about it realistically. If hardly any miracles or such things happen in the name of God then surely Satan can't do a whole lot more. IMO if God and Satan went away and mankind was left to their own devices not much would change.

This is not how I look at it.
I think Satan is very free with what power he has and he gives those that dabble in it quite a bit of power, both to convert new followers and also further ensnare those that get involved. They also use their powers to get gain and to obtain positions of power in society. If you look at the world thru a Babylon lens they are "winning" and thus if those things are your desire, it attracts many to follow that path.

God, on the other hand, tries and tests the mettle of those who seek to follow Him. Even great and sincere followers He allows to die in the most horrific ways. Not something that people flock to join because again thru a worldly lens it doesn't seem like a winning team.

God is playing the long game.

Contracts with Satan gives immediate gratification and the price comes later, and seemingly can be put off and put off. The Day of Reckoning can be delayed (with interest accruing of course) and if you think of our money system this demonstrates how diabolical it is.
But when the Day of Reckoning comes...not a good time.

God's way is that you pay the price up front, and even then God is there to help you bear the burden. Our suffering is but a moment, and then Eternal glory. Even when we receive reward in this life, it is almost never with fame, glory, or power. It is with knowledge, it is with peace and a thousand other things that cannot be seen openly thru the Babylon lens but only with attuned vision. If in God's wisdom He does endow us with power as with the City of Enoch, the rest of the world dares not even go up against it, their witchcraft and sorcery is exposed as the weak imitation of the Real Thing.

The fact that little happens in the name of God is on us, not Him. This is the Day of Satan's power, this is his Kingdom, for a time.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑April 1st, 2023, 6:26 am

Erastothenes wrote: ↑March 31st, 2023, 10:59 pm These things only have the amount of power we give them. Think about it realistically. If hardly any miracles or such things happen in the name of God then surely Satan can't do a whole lot more. IMO if God and Satan went away and mankind was left to their own devices not much would change.

This is not how I look at it.
I think Satan is very free with what power he has and he gives those that dabble in it quite a bit of power, both to convert new followers and also further ensnare those that get involved. They also use their powers to get gain and to obtain positions of power in society. If you look at the world thru a Babylon lens they are "winning" and thus if those things are your desire, it attracts many to follow that path.

God, on the other hand, tries and tests the mettle of those who seek to follow Him. Even great and sincere followers He allows to die in the most horrific ways. Not something that people flock to join because again thru a worldly lens it doesn't seem like a winning team.

God is playing the long game.

Contracts with Satan gives immediate gratification and the price comes later, and seemingly can be put off and put off. The Day of Reckoning can be delayed (with interest accruing of course) and if you think of our money system this demonstrates how diabolical it is.
But when the Day of Reckoning comes...not a good time.

God's way is that you pay the price up front, and even then God is there to help you bear the burden. Our suffering is but a moment, and then Eternal glory. Even when we receive reward in this life, it is almost never with fame, glory, or power. It is with knowledge, it is with peace and a thousand other things that cannot be seen openly thru the Babylon lens but only with attuned vision. If in God's wisdom He does endow us with power as with the City of Enoch, the rest of the world dares not even go up against it, their witchcraft and sorcery is exposed as the weak imitation of the Real Thing.

The fact that little happens in the name of God is on us, not Him. This is the Day of Satan's power, this is his Kingdom, for a time.

Your comment reminds me of the new knowledge I gained about the Adam and Eve story recently due to abijah and a book he recommended, The Language of Creation.

It turns out the Hebrew word translated as beguiled in our scriptures has a secondary meaning that relates to becoming a debtor, or taking something on credit. In a very real way, Eve became indebted to Lucifer when she partook of the fruit before she should have. He was willing to give her power and knowledge before God was prepared to give it to her - to become a creditor, if you will. So it is with each of us, I think. The adversary will happily give us what we want prematurely, on his terms of credit. We must decide if we will foolishly accept his usurious terms, or patiently wait for our knowledge and power, and in some sense “earn” it, by following the commandments God gives us, and waiting upon the Lord to deliver the promised blessings.