THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
- Chip
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- Fred
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
I believe what he is saying, except for his belief that he is the only one on the planet that deserves more from God.
- Chip
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
He says he knows one other person who only does what God wants and doesn't do anything that God doesn't want. His videos always have low view counts and he's okay with that. He just keeps doing his thing, not worrying how he comes across. I kind of admire all that about him. One can take it or leave it.
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
Hes one of the few people that I actually believe KNOWS what he is talking about from experience.
Last edited by Hosh on March 27th, 2023, 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Fred
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
He said he has doubts about the one other guy. His actual message is fine. He elevates himself nearly to Christ. I don't have a problem with a positive attitude or self confidence, but his love for himself far exceeds that of his fellow man. So it's not like he actually IS Christlike.Chip wrote: ↑March 27th, 2023, 8:21 pmHe says he knows one other person who only does what God wants and doesn't do anything that God doesn't want. His videos always have low view counts and he's okay with that. He just keeps doing his thing, not worrying how he comes across. I kind of admire all that about him. One can take it or leave it.
But, I agree that one can take it or leave it.
- Chip
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
Fred wrote: ↑March 27th, 2023, 8:40 pmHe said he has doubts about the one other guy. His actual message is fine. He elevates himself nearly to Christ. I don't have a problem with a positive attitude or self confidence, but his love for himself far exceeds that of his fellow man. So it's not like he actually IS Christlike.Chip wrote: ↑March 27th, 2023, 8:21 pmHe says he knows one other person who only does what God wants and doesn't do anything that God doesn't want. His videos always have low view counts and he's okay with that. He just keeps doing his thing, not worrying how he comes across. I kind of admire all that about him. One can take it or leave it.
But, I agree that one can take it or leave it.
Hmmm... Maybe so. I see what you are saying.
I think he just has an unusual personality, maybe "on the spectrum", and some things just don't come naturally to him, like affability. He is like a lot of computer people I know, so his demeanor is nearly "normal" to me.
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- Original_Intent
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
He was a university professor and he sacrificed his job (I don't know the details) but I believe it was over him taking an unpopular stand and not backing down. That's admirable.
I've watched a good number of his videos and generally get the sense that he knows what he is talking about and is probably a legit prophet (which isn't a calling, btw, it's a gift of the spirit available to all). He definitely comes across in an off-putting way ans I think he knows it and doesn't care. Not in an un-Christlike way, but possibly on the spectrum or possibly this and his books he has sacrificed a lot to produce, and perhaps he just feels like being blunt and if offends someone, it's their problem.
I've watched a good number of his videos and generally get the sense that he knows what he is talking about and is probably a legit prophet (which isn't a calling, btw, it's a gift of the spirit available to all). He definitely comes across in an off-putting way ans I think he knows it and doesn't care. Not in an un-Christlike way, but possibly on the spectrum or possibly this and his books he has sacrificed a lot to produce, and perhaps he just feels like being blunt and if offends someone, it's their problem.
- nightlight
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
Half way through.
He says that the more evidence one has on their path to conversion, the less blessings they can receive because they didn't act on as much faith as someone who converted with less evidence
Like if someone saw a mighty miracle that cannot be refuted, and that event ends up causing their conversion.... They aren't as qualify to receive these top tier blessings , i.e. the ability to perform mighty miracles or preach with mighty power.... Receive Zion
But this does not line up with the scriptures.
What about Peter...?
Did Peter not go on to do the same great things that Jesus did?
4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.
5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they aknow good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the bHoly cMessiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
He says that the more evidence one has on their path to conversion, the less blessings they can receive because they didn't act on as much faith as someone who converted with less evidence
Like if someone saw a mighty miracle that cannot be refuted, and that event ends up causing their conversion.... They aren't as qualify to receive these top tier blessings , i.e. the ability to perform mighty miracles or preach with mighty power.... Receive Zion
But this does not line up with the scriptures.
What about Peter...?
Did Peter not go on to do the same great things that Jesus did?
4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.
5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they aknow good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the bHoly cMessiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
- tmac
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
I don’t have any bones to pick with his formula. Like Fred, I completely agree with the basic premise — which, in a nutshell, is repentance. Complete repentance.
Moreover, I think the premise of continually asking and DOING what Christ would do in each and every instance, if He were in our shoes, is a sound one (although very deliberative, and sometimes not as certain as one might think — I.e., would JC drive a Ford or a Chevy? Would He root for BYU or Notre Dame?).
Where he loses me a little bit, though, is with the idea that he might be the only person on the face of the earth who is doing this perfectly. I don’t disagree with his skepticism that anyone else is. My genuine skepticism is with the idea that any mortal being is doing (or even capable of doing) it perfectly — including him.
Even if all of his other concepts are correct, to openly and publicly put himself on a pedestal and claim that he is the one and only mortal being alive that has this figured-out can’t help but smack a little bit of pride, and be a little bit of a turn-off. Unless he’s claiming to be God himself, I, for one, struggle a little bit with that premise. But I would be glad to see more fruit to better evaluate that initial, superficial assessment.
Moreover, I think the premise of continually asking and DOING what Christ would do in each and every instance, if He were in our shoes, is a sound one (although very deliberative, and sometimes not as certain as one might think — I.e., would JC drive a Ford or a Chevy? Would He root for BYU or Notre Dame?).
Where he loses me a little bit, though, is with the idea that he might be the only person on the face of the earth who is doing this perfectly. I don’t disagree with his skepticism that anyone else is. My genuine skepticism is with the idea that any mortal being is doing (or even capable of doing) it perfectly — including him.
Even if all of his other concepts are correct, to openly and publicly put himself on a pedestal and claim that he is the one and only mortal being alive that has this figured-out can’t help but smack a little bit of pride, and be a little bit of a turn-off. Unless he’s claiming to be God himself, I, for one, struggle a little bit with that premise. But I would be glad to see more fruit to better evaluate that initial, superficial assessment.
- Jonesy
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
I think he’s doing pretty darn well. I would normally say that exceeding the righteousness of the Pharisees and still going to church is the best course, but I think he’s exhausted his efforts there already. And he is one of very few I’ve seen that is not bitter at all about it, nor does he criticize (or at least have the spirit of criticizing).
I haven’t considered before that he might be on the spectrum, but perhaps. He does seem a bit robotic at times, but I can’t doubt his genuineness and sincerity.
I think he claims to be perfect based on his own understanding and knowledge, not that he is already perfect.
I think his expectation is that everyone should be acting in perfect obedience to their knowledge and understanding—and God will take you as you are as long as you continue in a course to perfection. This seems true to me so far. Has anyone tried to do this? I mean, doing what Jesus would do in every decision? For me, the results were very fruitful. However, I haven’t figured out to maintain it and I end up falling back. Zeal without knowledge comes to mind, but I’m not sure that’s it. He also says everyone is capable of being perfect according to one’s understanding, but not sure how that works. Sometimes anger gets the better of me before I’m able to conscientiously object to the action—how is it possible to be perfect when that happens?
There’s also the problem of making a big course change that is not the right path (regardless of intentions). Like it or not, this will take a portion of the Spirit away from you and cause misalignment from the light. From there the hope is that God will correct you because you are doing your best, or it’s all part of His plan.
Another thing is that some people, myself included, will not be humble enough to keep the course until Tribulation comes. Part of the equation is sackcloth and ashes. Some people still haven’t experienced the hardships that is needed for that to happen, but it’s coming for us.
Still figuring it all out…
I haven’t considered before that he might be on the spectrum, but perhaps. He does seem a bit robotic at times, but I can’t doubt his genuineness and sincerity.
I think he claims to be perfect based on his own understanding and knowledge, not that he is already perfect.
I think his expectation is that everyone should be acting in perfect obedience to their knowledge and understanding—and God will take you as you are as long as you continue in a course to perfection. This seems true to me so far. Has anyone tried to do this? I mean, doing what Jesus would do in every decision? For me, the results were very fruitful. However, I haven’t figured out to maintain it and I end up falling back. Zeal without knowledge comes to mind, but I’m not sure that’s it. He also says everyone is capable of being perfect according to one’s understanding, but not sure how that works. Sometimes anger gets the better of me before I’m able to conscientiously object to the action—how is it possible to be perfect when that happens?
There’s also the problem of making a big course change that is not the right path (regardless of intentions). Like it or not, this will take a portion of the Spirit away from you and cause misalignment from the light. From there the hope is that God will correct you because you are doing your best, or it’s all part of His plan.
Another thing is that some people, myself included, will not be humble enough to keep the course until Tribulation comes. Part of the equation is sackcloth and ashes. Some people still haven’t experienced the hardships that is needed for that to happen, but it’s coming for us.
Still figuring it all out…
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
Peter sacrificed his whole life, his business, and left his wife and children before he saw any miracle. It seems like he exercised quite a bit of faith before he received priesthood power.nightlight wrote: ↑March 27th, 2023, 9:55 pm Half way through.
He says that the more evidence one has on their path to conversion, the less blessings they can receive because they didn't act on as much faith as someone who converted with less evidence
Like if someone saw a mighty miracle that cannot be refuted, and that event ends up causing their conversion.... They aren't as qualify to receive these top tier blessings , i.e. the ability to perform mighty miracles or preach with mighty power.... Receive Zion
But this does not line up with the scriptures.
What about Peter...?
Did Peter not go on to do the same great things that Jesus did?
4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.
5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they aknow good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the bHoly cMessiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
- nightlight
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
"priesthood power"Atrasado wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:22 pmPeter sacrificed his whole life, his business, and left his wife and children before he saw any miracle. It seems like he exercised quite a bit of faith before he received priesthood power.nightlight wrote: ↑March 27th, 2023, 9:55 pm Half way through.
He says that the more evidence one has on their path to conversion, the less blessings they can receive because they didn't act on as much faith as someone who converted with less evidence
Like if someone saw a mighty miracle that cannot be refuted, and that event ends up causing their conversion.... They aren't as qualify to receive these top tier blessings , i.e. the ability to perform mighty miracles or preach with mighty power.... Receive Zion
But this does not line up with the scriptures.
What about Peter...?
Did Peter not go on to do the same great things that Jesus did?
4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.
5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they aknow good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the bHoly cMessiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
I think you're missing my point.
Peter denied Christ and left Him to die. It took Jesus literally taking back His body for Peter to do what Jesus was telling him to do for 3 years. To say his blessing-potential was limited because the marvelous things it took to put him on the path is retarded(which is what the guy in the video is saying)
Another example is Alma. It took an actual angel to help convert him. Again.....lol to say his blessing-potential was downgraded because of his conversion.....
Etc
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
As I understand it, Rob believes that we must act according to the light of Christ, or our conscience, all the time to be in a state of repentance. We are then perfect as much as is possible for us at that point. When we do that, we qualify for additional light and knowledge. If we accept that light and knowledge then God will continue to give us light and knowledge. If we don't, we will start to lose light and knowledge until we repent.
Faith in Jesus Christ is what starts us on the path. Rob strongly believes that God doesn't give us free passes on our sins, and that sin is not doing what we think Jesus would do at a certain point in time.
I accept what he says because it follows along with the scripture. I do believe that we must be given grace to become like Christ in our nature, but I also believe that we must keep all the commandments as well as we understand them in order to receive His grace. That's because God doesn't fight us. We can't say that we want to be like Jesus and then not follow His commandments with all our hearts. That's being double-minded and James told us what that is like.
Rob makes the claim that he does what God wants at all times. I have no way to evaluate that. I have never been in the same room as him. But maybe he does. I don't hear anyone else explain things as clearly as he does and his prophecies have a way of being fulfilled.
He isn't making himself out to be Jesus. He doesn't claim to have lived a sinless life. He claims that he's brought himself into alignment with Jesus Christ and claims that anyone with an eye truly single to the glory of God will do the same thing. Being that this is what the scriptures say, I think we should repent in such a manner. Doesn't Moroni 6:2 say,
Faith in Jesus Christ is what starts us on the path. Rob strongly believes that God doesn't give us free passes on our sins, and that sin is not doing what we think Jesus would do at a certain point in time.
I accept what he says because it follows along with the scripture. I do believe that we must be given grace to become like Christ in our nature, but I also believe that we must keep all the commandments as well as we understand them in order to receive His grace. That's because God doesn't fight us. We can't say that we want to be like Jesus and then not follow His commandments with all our hearts. That's being double-minded and James told us what that is like.
Rob makes the claim that he does what God wants at all times. I have no way to evaluate that. I have never been in the same room as him. But maybe he does. I don't hear anyone else explain things as clearly as he does and his prophecies have a way of being fulfilled.
He isn't making himself out to be Jesus. He doesn't claim to have lived a sinless life. He claims that he's brought himself into alignment with Jesus Christ and claims that anyone with an eye truly single to the glory of God will do the same thing. Being that this is what the scriptures say, I think we should repent in such a manner. Doesn't Moroni 6:2 say,
First we repent, then we can speak with the tongue of angels and then are both again. Isn't that the pattern follows by Lamonhi and his father, Alma the Younger and the sons of Mosiah, and Nephi?2 Neither did they receive any unto baptism save they came forth with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, and witnessed unto the church that they truly repented of all their sins.
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
How is this inconsistent with what the Savior taught? Didn't he tell Thomas that he was blessed because he saw and believed, but that those who hadn't seen but believed would be more blessed? Clearly this indicates that the less evidence it takes to truly believe in Jesus Christ the more blessed an individual will be.nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:34 pm"priesthood power"Atrasado wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:22 pmPeter sacrificed his whole life, his business, and left his wife and children before he saw any miracle. It seems like he exercised quite a bit of faith before he received priesthood power.nightlight wrote: ↑March 27th, 2023, 9:55 pm Half way through.
He says that the more evidence one has on their path to conversion, the less blessings they can receive because they didn't act on as much faith as someone who converted with less evidence
Like if someone saw a mighty miracle that cannot be refuted, and that event ends up causing their conversion.... They aren't as qualify to receive these top tier blessings , i.e. the ability to perform mighty miracles or preach with mighty power.... Receive Zion
But this does not line up with the scriptures.
What about Peter...?
Did Peter not go on to do the same great things that Jesus did?
4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.
5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they aknow good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the bHoly cMessiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
I think you're missing my point.
Peter denied Christ and left Him to die. It took Jesus literally taking back His body for Peter to do what Jesus was telling him to do for 3 years. To say his blessing-potential was limited because the marvelous things it took to put him on the path is retarded(which is what the guy in the video is saying)
Another example is Alma. It took an actual angel to help convert him. Again.....lol to say his blessing-potential was downgraded because of his conversion.....
Etc
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
There are ways of looking at this that can make it make sense. To say something is retarded because you havent made sense of it is... well...retarded. I get your point, and its a valid argument, but I also get what Rob is trying to say and I think there are ways that It can jive with scripture looking at it through a different lense. For me, multiple mortal probations is that lense that makes it make sense, but thats not worth getting into because I know alot of people dont believe MMP's are a thing. But I know Rob does believe MMP's exist in eternity so I would bet that this is how he makes sense of what you are arguing as well from a scriptural standpoint.nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:34 pm"priesthood power"Atrasado wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:22 pmPeter sacrificed his whole life, his business, and left his wife and children before he saw any miracle. It seems like he exercised quite a bit of faith before he received priesthood power.nightlight wrote: ↑March 27th, 2023, 9:55 pm Half way through.
He says that the more evidence one has on their path to conversion, the less blessings they can receive because they didn't act on as much faith as someone who converted with less evidence
Like if someone saw a mighty miracle that cannot be refuted, and that event ends up causing their conversion.... They aren't as qualify to receive these top tier blessings , i.e. the ability to perform mighty miracles or preach with mighty power.... Receive Zion
But this does not line up with the scriptures.
What about Peter...?
Did Peter not go on to do the same great things that Jesus did?
4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.
5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they aknow good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the bHoly cMessiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
I think you're missing my point.
Peter denied Christ and left Him to die. It took Jesus literally taking back His body for Peter to do what Jesus was telling him to do for 3 years. To say his blessing-potential was limited because the marvelous things it took to put him on the path is retarded(which is what the guy in the video is saying)
Another example is Alma. It took an actual angel to help convert him. Again.....lol to say his blessing-potential was downgraded because of his conversion.....
Etc
- nightlight
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
You're adding words into the scripturesAtrasado wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:55 pmHow is this inconsistent with what the Savior taught? Didn't he tell Thomas that he was blessed because he saw and believed, but that those who hadn't seen but believed would be more blessed? Clearly this indicates that the less evidence it takes to truly believe in Jesus Christ the more blessed an individual will be.nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:34 pm"priesthood power"
I think you're missing my point.
Peter denied Christ and left Him to die. It took Jesus literally taking back His body for Peter to do what Jesus was telling him to do for 3 years. To say his blessing-potential was limited because the marvelous things it took to put him on the path is retarded(which is what the guy in the video is saying)
Another example is Alma. It took an actual angel to help convert him. Again.....lol to say his blessing-potential was downgraded because of his conversion.....
Etc
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
+++++++++++
More ?
Where did He say "more blessed"?
If it's in a different scripture, please quote it...but I can't think of one.
If you're claim that's what Jesus meant, what is this based on?
- nightlight
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
If someone claims that witnessing a miracle while in a state of disbelief will put a cap on the quality/quantity of blessings....well.....by definition, this will retard spiritual understanding.....i.e. it's retarded imoHosh wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 9:07 pmThere are ways of looking at this that can make it make sense. To say something is retarded because you havent made sense of it is... well...retarded. I get your point, and its a valid argument, but I also get what Rob is trying to say and I think there are ways that It can jive with scripture looking at it through a different lense. For me, multiple mortal probations is that lense that makes it make sense, but thats not worth getting into because I know alot of people dont believe MMP's are a thing. But I know Rob does believe MMP's exist in eternity so I would bet that this is how he makes sense of what you are arguing as well from a scriptural standpoint.nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:34 pm"priesthood power"
I think you're missing my point.
Peter denied Christ and left Him to die. It took Jesus literally taking back His body for Peter to do what Jesus was telling him to do for 3 years. To say his blessing-potential was limited because the marvelous things it took to put him on the path is retarded(which is what the guy in the video is saying)
Another example is Alma. It took an actual angel to help convert him. Again.....lol to say his blessing-potential was downgraded because of his conversion.....
Etc
Lol you calling me retarded for claiming that an idea is retarded.....is retarded jk
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
3 Nephi 12nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 9:15 pmYou're adding words into the scripturesAtrasado wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:55 pmHow is this inconsistent with what the Savior taught? Didn't he tell Thomas that he was blessed because he saw and believed, but that those who hadn't seen but believed would be more blessed? Clearly this indicates that the less evidence it takes to truly believe in Jesus Christ the more blessed an individual will be.nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:34 pm
"priesthood power"
I think you're missing my point.
Peter denied Christ and left Him to die. It took Jesus literally taking back His body for Peter to do what Jesus was telling him to do for 3 years. To say his blessing-potential was limited because the marvelous things it took to put him on the path is retarded(which is what the guy in the video is saying)
Another example is Alma. It took an actual angel to help convert him. Again.....lol to say his blessing-potential was downgraded because of his conversion.....
Etc
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
+++++++++++
More ?
Where did He say "more blessed"?
If it's in a different scripture, please quote it...but I can't think of one.
If you're claim that's what Jesus meant, what is this based on?
1 ...therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.
2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
tmac wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 7:58 am …
Where he loses me a little bit, though, is with the idea that he might be the only person on the face of the earth who is doing this perfectly. I don’t disagree with his skepticism that anyone else is. My genuine skepticism is with the idea that any mortal being is doing (or even capable of doing) it perfectly — including him.
It would seem that Joseph Smith believed it was possible to be sinless.[The Son] descended in suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be. But notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin: Showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin. And also, that by him a righteous judgment might come upon all flesh, and that all who walk not in the law of God, may justly be condemned by the law, and have no excuse for their sins.
- Lectures on Faith 5:2
- tmac
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Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
There is another unspoken part of this whole equation. From what I understand (but not from experience), including from multiple scriptural accounts, and particularly in the BoM, when one experiences BFHG, a mighty change also occurs, that should cause one to no longer desire to sin, but to do good continually. That would be a game-changer, because until that happens, we are continually fighting against the natural man and our own fallen nature. A mighty change of heart could/would really help out in that regard. And, in my view, until that happens, it probably is a little bit of a losing battle, with two steps forward and a step back, and sometimes only one forward and two steps back.
Last edited by tmac on March 28th, 2023, 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- nightlight
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 8407
Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
Thank youHosh wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 9:22 pm3 Nephi 12nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 9:15 pmYou're adding words into the scripturesAtrasado wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:55 pm
How is this inconsistent with what the Savior taught? Didn't he tell Thomas that he was blessed because he saw and believed, but that those who hadn't seen but believed would be more blessed? Clearly this indicates that the less evidence it takes to truly believe in Jesus Christ the more blessed an individual will be.
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
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More ?
Where did He say "more blessed"?
If it's in a different scripture, please quote it...but I can't think of one.
If you're claim that's what Jesus meant, what is this based on?
1 ...therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.
2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am
But that is still different than what you are claiming
"therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am"
Those people believed before they saw Him, and AFTER the fact He came to them.
In what way are they who haven't seen Jesus more blessed? In their ability to do these mighty works, to preach with that great power?? No, the people who Jesus was talking to were doing all the miracles that Jesus was doing, they were receiving the second comforter, etc
Please explain
- TheDuke
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs
Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
I feel it is almost always bad to judge other people. That is not a prophet's job. It is NOT what Jesus would do.
We cannot know what Jesus would do in our shoes. We don't really know what he did, except a few stories from his mission of a couple years. There are obvious things on the upper and lower boundaries. But, sorry, all else is conjecture. Unless the Spirit is telling you what to do. Then it isn't telling you what Jesus would do, it is telling you what you should do.
We cannot know what Jesus would do in our shoes. We don't really know what he did, except a few stories from his mission of a couple years. There are obvious things on the upper and lower boundaries. But, sorry, all else is conjecture. Unless the Spirit is telling you what to do. Then it isn't telling you what Jesus would do, it is telling you what you should do.
- tmac
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4526
- Location: Reality
Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
From my perspective, it may be one thing not to commit “sin” per se. It is a completely different matter not to make any kind of mistake of any kind, whether a sin or not.briznian wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 9:28 pmtmac wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 7:58 am …
Where he loses me a little bit, though, is with the idea that he might be the only person on the face of the earth who is doing this perfectly. I don’t disagree with his skepticism that anyone else is. My genuine skepticism is with the idea that any mortal being is doing (or even capable of doing) it perfectly — including him.It would seem that Joseph Smith believed it was possible to be sinless.[The Son] descended in suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be. But notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin: Showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin. And also, that by him a righteous judgment might come upon all flesh, and that all who walk not in the law of God, may justly be condemned by the law, and have no excuse for their sins.
- Lectures on Faith 5:2
If JC is God, but were walking in our shoes, it is fair to say He would not make a mistake of any kind. But I don’t think that is possible for us. As we grow, we will experience greater challenges, and make mistakes— which is one of the biggest ways we learn. I do think there is a distinction.
Last edited by tmac on March 29th, 2023, 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1768
Re: THE FORMULA Laid Out Clearly
It seems clear to me that is what the Savior meant when He spoke to Thomas. He chided him for his lack of faith and then told him that those who believed without that witness would be blessed which He didn't say to Thomas.nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 9:15 pmYou're adding words into the scripturesAtrasado wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:55 pmHow is this inconsistent with what the Savior taught? Didn't he tell Thomas that he was blessed because he saw and believed, but that those who hadn't seen but believed would be more blessed? Clearly this indicates that the less evidence it takes to truly believe in Jesus Christ the more blessed an individual will be.nightlight wrote: ↑March 28th, 2023, 8:34 pm
"priesthood power"
I think you're missing my point.
Peter denied Christ and left Him to die. It took Jesus literally taking back His body for Peter to do what Jesus was telling him to do for 3 years. To say his blessing-potential was limited because the marvelous things it took to put him on the path is retarded(which is what the guy in the video is saying)
Another example is Alma. It took an actual angel to help convert him. Again.....lol to say his blessing-potential was downgraded because of his conversion.....
Etc
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
+++++++++++
More ?
Where did He say "more blessed"?
If it's in a different scripture, please quote it...but I can't think of one.
If you're claim that's what Jesus meant, what is this based on?
Also, that's exactly what Christ said to the Nephites. On 3 Nephi 12 the Savior addressed the people at the temple in Bountiful and part of what He said was,
It appears that it is doctrine that the more faith someone shows the more blessed they are. To me that makes sense since Joseph Smith taught,Behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost; therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am. 2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am.
So the more faith one has the more power they will receive. It also seems clear that the fewer reasons someone has to believe, the more faith they are exercising if they choose to believe.But faith is not only the principle of action, but of power also, in all intelligent beings, whether in heaven or on earth.