“I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

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blitzinstripes
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by blitzinstripes »

This may be another case of a misleading FPS. EVEN Mormon apologists such as Kevin Barney seem to have discredited this story. It doesn't appear that this old professor ever existed. If you can provide proof of his professorship and credentials it would be helpful. I tried my own google search and could find nothing on the man, for such a supposed expert on ancient Egyptian.

JohnnyL
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by JohnnyL »

So did the Church ever pick up the... Hebrew? translation sitting in his office?

JohnnyL
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by JohnnyL »

This link was given before, but there is a lot more about the on is, so I encourage you to check it out: https://bycommonconsent.com/2014/06/28/ ... revisited/

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Niemand
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by Niemand »

JohnnyL wrote: March 27th, 2023, 10:50 am So did the Church ever pick up the... Hebrew? translation sitting in his office?
There was a Hebrew translation. It got withdrawn after complaints from Zionists. The RLDS/COC one is still in print.

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gkearney
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by gkearney »

As some who knows Afrikaans I can tell you this story makes no sense at all. Furthermore it has been debunked both here and in South Africa.

Afrikaans is the youngest of the organic (naturally developed) languages. It is a west Germanic language with close linguistic ties to Dutch and English. It is the most common language in South Africa and is widely spoken in in the neighboring countries of Zimbabwe Botswana, and the Namibia. Given this and the fact that we have authorized translations in both English and Dutch there would be no good reason to be back transacting into a non-Germanic language as was claimed in this account.

Adding further no Afrikaans speaking church member I have ever meet in South Africa has ever heard of this translator and as far as any of them are aware the Afrikaans translation was done at the linguistics department at Stellenbosch University the leading Afrikaans University in the world.

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kirtland r.m.
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by kirtland r.m. »

gkearney wrote: March 27th, 2023, 11:20 am As some who knows Afrikaans I can tell you this story makes no sense at all. Furthermore it has been debunked both here and in South Africa.

Afrikaans is the youngest of the organic (naturally developed) languages. It is a west Germanic language with close linguistic ties to Dutch and English. It is the most common language in South Africa and is widely spoken in in the neighboring countries of Zimbabwe Botswana, and the Namibia. Given this and the fact that we have authorized translations in both English and Dutch there would be no good reason to be back transacting into a non-Germanic language as was claimed in this account.

Adding further no Afrikaans speaking church member I have ever meet in South Africa has ever heard of this translator and as far as any of them are aware the Afrikaans translation was done at the linguistics department at Stellenbosch University the leading Afrikaans University in the world.
gkearney and everyone else who feels a constant need almost every time I start a thread to dispute it, here is a little more that I said I would put on the forum.

Richard Close on February 19, 2017 at 5:15 pm

I spoke with another missionary, an Elder Donaldson from Price, Utah who was serving in the same mission and was present at the meeting when this professor spoke. Elder Donaldson said the way it was explained in Pontius’ book is the way he remembered it also. So, at least two witnesses can say this is what happened. I know Elder Donaldson to be an honest man.https://historyofmormonism.com/2012/12/ ... afrikaans/

endlessQuestions
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by endlessQuestions »

kirtland r.m. wrote: March 27th, 2023, 5:42 pm
gkearney wrote: March 27th, 2023, 11:20 am As some who knows Afrikaans I can tell you this story makes no sense at all. Furthermore it has been debunked both here and in South Africa.

Afrikaans is the youngest of the organic (naturally developed) languages. It is a west Germanic language with close linguistic ties to Dutch and English. It is the most common language in South Africa and is widely spoken in in the neighboring countries of Zimbabwe Botswana, and the Namibia. Given this and the fact that we have authorized translations in both English and Dutch there would be no good reason to be back transacting into a non-Germanic language as was claimed in this account.

Adding further no Afrikaans speaking church member I have ever meet in South Africa has ever heard of this translator and as far as any of them are aware the Afrikaans translation was done at the linguistics department at Stellenbosch University the leading Afrikaans University in the world.
gkearney and everyone else who feels a constant need almost every time I start a thread to dispute it, here is a little more that I said I would put on the forum.

Richard Close on February 19, 2017 at 5:15 pm

I spoke with another missionary, an Elder Donaldson from Price, Utah who was serving in the same mission and was present at the meeting when this professor spoke. Elder Donaldson said the way it was explained in Pontius’ book is the way he remembered it also. So, at least two witnesses can say this is what happened. I know Elder Donaldson to be an honest man.https://historyofmormonism.com/2012/12/ ... afrikaans/
kirtland,

No need to take offense. Even Pontus didn’t stand by this version of the story. It’s simply not true.

But it seems it’s “based on a true story”, perhaps, so as long as we’re honest about that, I think it’s a great story.

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TheDuke
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by TheDuke »

I have stated several times that I don't take the exact words in BoM or any of JS scriptures verbatim from the past. I believe they are true, the principles that is and perhaps the core of the stories and people in them. But, not the wording. So, any stories about the translation and wording to me fall flat.

As, I stated before. Assuming Jacob's nation was 60-80 people, means the words he used were either fully poetic and non-sensical to the time or interpreted later when there was a real nation, not a tiny tribe. Also, Bro of J having Jesus call himself by the name of "Jesus Christ" when Christ was yet to become a Greek term, 250 years later. And Jesus never called himself a Christ in his life. Same with Nephi. Same with steel, horses, etc... The only way the words make sense is that they were words Joseph knew and would make sense in this day and age.

You don't have to agree, you can feel that each word is the same as told up to 4500 years ago. But, then there are many, many more holes in the book. Just my 2 cents.

Also, I love spirit building stories, but not fabricated ones or spirit building lies. I was in my youth a big fan of Paul H. Dunn. Never felt a stronger spirit than the story of the tank on his head in Pacific islands in WW II. A lie of course but wow!

blitzinstripes
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by blitzinstripes »

The problem is that we have so many "faith promoting" stories that either we fail to properly vett, or they are impossible to vett, due to lack of historical evidence.

Which is really why we don't NEED them. We have the Spirit and we have the scriptures. I don't need a feel good story of some professor translating ancient Egyptian or someone who says their uncle's boss's mailman saw the golden plates in a vault in Granite mountain.

Such stories ultimately cause more harm to the credibility of the Restoration than they actually help.

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Niemand
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by Niemand »

blitzinstripes wrote: March 28th, 2023, 4:08 am The problem is that we have so many "faith promoting" stories that either we fail to properly vett, or they are impossible to vett, due to lack of historical evidence.
Unlike the ones at general conference at least we have a name and a location.

The worst one was in the Gospel Principles book which said that a church president had no trouble being understood in New Zealand, which was an English speaking country even then. (Even the older Maori would have known English.)

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Lexew1899
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Re: “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly..."

Post by Lexew1899 »

This is a really interesting story. I have studied the Book of Abraham in depth, and found several sources of course that dispute it, while others say it is an appropriate translation of the facsimiles. One thing in particular I find interesting was Joseph Smith’s repair work he did on the hypocephalus, which is basically flawless. Perhaps the best example of his work as a seer we have today with quantifiable evidence.

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